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Triceratops, Torosaurus Two Different Species Of Horned Dinosaur, Skull Fossil Researcher Says

Dino Skull

First Posted: 03/ 2/2012 8:18 am Updated: 03/ 2/2012 8:18 am

By: Jennifer Welsh, LiveScience Staff Writer
Published: 02/29/2012 05:26 PM EST on LiveScience

The debate continues over how many species of horned dinosaurs existed. A new paper concludes that Triceratops and Torosaurus were different species and not, as previously argued, two different age ranges of the same species.

Nicholas Longrich, a postdoctoral researcher at Yale University, says an analysis of 35 skulls and fossil distribution patterns provided signs that the Torosaurus was its own creature, and not simply the mature version of Triceratops.

Longrich's paper, appearing in today's (Feb. 29) issue of the journal PLoS ONE, rebutted the arguments of other researchers including John Scannella, a graduate student at Montana State University.

Triple threat

More than a dozen species were originally delineated in the Triceratops genus. Having been culled from them, the remaining Triceratops species, including Torosaurus, should be consolidated into one, Scannella contends.

The shapes of the two species' heads were slightly different, as were their frills and horns, but Scannella says the different skull forms could be explained by different developmental stages — comparable to teenagers and adults. Once Triceratops matured, it looked like Torosaurus.

There are three testable requirements for this to be true, Longrich writes. But, all three need to be true.

First, the two forms must have the same distribution in the fossil record, since anywhere adults of a species would be found, the youth should be found there as well. Point for Scannella: This seems to hold up based on where Triceratops and Torosaurus fossils have been found, Longrich said.

Torosaurus and Triceratops fossils have been found in all the same locations.

Mature skulls

Second, if Torosaurus was the mature form, all Triceratops should be immature. To determine maturity of specimens, Longrich examined 35 Triceratops and Torosaurus skulls, including their bone texture and whether individual bones had fused together, which would indicate a fully matured skull.

Longrich found some immature Torosaurus skulls and some fully fused Triceratops skulls, he said. One Torosaurus skull, discovered in the 1800s, was the perfect example: It was huge — more than 8 feet (2.4 meters) long — but Longrich noticed when he examined it that its bones weren't fully fused. "It's getting there, it's full sized, but it hasn't gotten old yet," Longrich told LiveScience. "It's like a teenager toward the end of its growth spurt: It's gotten really big but isn't fully mature."

Scanella noted that fusion of the skull bones could be dependent on things like nutrition, changes over geologic time or individual variation in size: "I think there are some problems with using primarily cranial fusion to determine how mature something is."

Comparison of the size of Torosaurus specimens. The top is a subadult, whose skull is about 8.5 feet (about 2.6 meters) long, and the lower skull is from an 'early adult" which is about 6 feet (about 1.8 meters) long.

Intermediate mix

Third, if Triceratops matured into Torosaurus, researchers should have found some examples of intermediates by now, Longrich argued. Triceratops skulls with shallow depressions in their frills have been found, but Longrich says his analysis indicates they were significantly different from Torosaurus and didn't seem to be developing into that species.

"If there really was a transformation from one to the other, we would find skulls from the intermediate stages," Longrich said. "It's really hard to believe that we just haven't found them."

While we do have a large variety of Triceratops and Torosaurus skulls already, Scannella notes that he is working on a set of more than 100 specimens at the Museum of the Rockies, which are largely undescribed in the literature. He is adamant that "there are numerous examples of intermediate specimens."

You can follow LiveScience staff writer Jennifer Welsh on Twitter @microbelover. Follow LiveScience for the latest in science news and discoveries on Twitter @livescience and on Facebook.

Copyright 2012 LiveScience, a TechMediaNetwork company. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

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By: Jennifer Welsh, LiveScience Staff Writer Published: 02/29/2012 05:26 PM EST on LiveScience The debate continues over how many species of horned dinosaurs existed. A new paper concludes that ...
By: Jennifer Welsh, LiveScience Staff Writer Published: 02/29/2012 05:26 PM EST on LiveScience The debate continues over how many species of horned dinosaurs existed. A new paper concludes that ...
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TYRANNASAURUS
UGH!....people taste like crap!
06:14 PM on 03/10/2012
Triceratops and Torosaurus were different species ....

Duh.....yeah.....they are different....I think some of these dino people like to create controversy so that maybe they can get their names in some science paper releases?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
I think I think
And I fear that it is later than we think.
11:03 AM on 03/09/2012
I always thought that the torosaurus was a different species from the triceratops, and one of several related species, including the chasmasaurus. I am happy to see that it has maintained its own identity. The ceratopsians have always been my favorite of the dinosaurs because they were not meat eating hunter - killers, and yet they were totally capable of self protection. Additionally they has very strong family/group cohesion. Ov erally a totally cool group of animals.
This comment has been removed due to violations of our [Guidelines]
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Rod DK
Tr0lls got the cutest little fangs
04:25 AM on 03/06/2012
In a museum in Havana, there are two skulls of Christopher Columbus, "one when he was a boy and one when he was a man."
Mark Twain
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
01:14 AM on 03/06/2012
Oh. I assumed that some religious nut was arguing that Adam and Eve rode triceratops with Fred and Wilma.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
outlawjames8
10:34 AM on 03/08/2012
They do view the Flintstones as a historical documentary.
03:18 PM on 03/05/2012
Not this one again, man, well if you look at the white rhino, and black rhino living in africa is a perfect example, yes, two different ceratopsian species can co-exist with one another, jeez, these paleontologist's need to get over it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GaryNOVA
Fear My Micro-bio!!!!!!!!
07:11 PM on 03/05/2012
ahem... African American Rhino.
11:48 PM on 03/05/2012
I, I don't get what you mean, did you meant as in...just better yet, lets just keep it like that.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Watching rock grow
FE = Iron, and Female = Iron Male :)
12:09 PM on 03/08/2012
Are you sure that the English churchmen that first took on Darwin even knew there were two types of rhino? It was a really longtime ago and knowledge has increased greatly since then: )
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GaryNOVA
Fear My Micro-bio!!!!!!!!
02:32 AM on 03/05/2012
Theres really only one possible way to solve this. We're gonna need two opposing scientists to fight to the dealth with machetes. its the only way.
02:49 PM on 03/05/2012
what that heck did your mother feed you when you were a child. you're a bit disturbed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
GaryNOVA
Fear My Micro-bio!!!!!!!!
04:49 PM on 03/05/2012
:)
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
01:15 AM on 03/06/2012
Machete doesn't text!
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snowballinhell
Humans have a 100% chance of extinction
12:51 AM on 03/20/2012
And they didn't exist in the Mesozoic!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Cayce58
10:22 PM on 03/04/2012
I think the argument is moot. Its like global warming, with the vast majority of scientists accepting one theory while a small minority get an unwarrented amount of press, demanding proof for what passes as common sense. Dinos met every challenge for millions of years. It is common sense to think they met every challenge right up to the asteroid strike. While there is no proof they did, there is also no proof for any of the ideas on what would have killed them early.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
11:23 PM on 03/04/2012
I think the ideal of magical asteroid strikes wiping out the dinos, has been thrown out long ago do to a lack of evidence.
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mbkeefer
Elder Amateur Scientist
12:12 AM on 03/05/2012
Wrongo. There is plenty of evidence. That is why it is now the leading theory.
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F P Soft
Cave Slave of the Republic
12:28 AM on 03/05/2012
Are you high?
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
07:12 AM on 03/05/2012
Should someone find evidence that greenhouse gases don't reduce infrared radiation through the stratosphere, then global warming would be thrown out. That's exceptionally unlikely to happen, but it could in principle - there could be a paradigm shift.

These guys are arguing about assigning fossils to species. Everyone agrees that dinosaurs became extinct at the end of the Cretaceous, and the large 10-km-class impact in Mexico at the time is unlikely to have been a total coincidence.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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kareemachan
watashi ha tororu ga oroka da to omoi masu。
06:07 PM on 03/04/2012
I used to visit a paleontology website just to read the discussions going on there about such things as whether sauropods like Apatosaurus used their tails as a whip or not. Man, they'd get pretty heated sometimes!

I wish I hadn't lost that website's address, it was fun. :-(
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Maezeppa
Happy-Happy Joy-Joy
11:08 AM on 03/08/2012
I love those kinds of academic food fights.  Fun!   If you find the link, let me know?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jim Milks
Ecologist
01:36 PM on 03/04/2012
Ah, yes. The age-old taxonomic argument between lumpers and splitters. Time to get the popcorn out as the arguments and rebuttals fly across the pages of the scientific literature.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wanderland
Generic white guy
03:34 PM on 03/04/2012
Time to place bets on how soon this controversy will be adapted by creationists as an argument against evolution.
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kareemachan
watashi ha tororu ga oroka da to omoi masu。
06:03 PM on 03/04/2012
They already have on this thread.
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06:26 PM on 03/04/2012
Well it certainly is more evidence of how highly debatable "proof" for evolution is.
10:23 PM on 03/03/2012
Want to get the answer? Clone it! Simple lol! That will solve the answer.
iflew
Pro Publiae Bonae
09:56 PM on 03/03/2012
Science observes, theorizes, observes new evidence and retheorizes. Sort of like building a bridge except all the pieces might be out of order and observed in someone else's lifetime or location.

Religion is faith based. Faith requires no proof. If an unapproved idea surfaces, burn the book and maybe the writer.

Science can help make a really great life or make a really big bomb. Faith can make a minor dispute into a really big war. Both can be helpful; both can be dangerous.
01:05 PM on 03/04/2012
yes because people weren't killing each other before science.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Reyeshawk13
Just another lefty gun-owner
02:25 PM on 03/04/2012
And of course science has eliminated war.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
tlee47ftw
12:00 PM on 03/05/2012
Perhaps you haven't heard of Cain 'slewing" Able.......
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06:28 PM on 03/04/2012
So two scientist disagree. Which one are you putting your faith in?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
CabinAgue
We are ALL in this together.
09:33 PM on 03/04/2012
No faith.  They'll keep studying and gather more evidence and eventually they'll figure it out.  For right now, there isn't enough information.  Are you concerned?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
11:11 PM on 03/04/2012
The one presenting the evidence.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rasputinsstash
08:35 PM on 03/03/2012
Talk about an esoteric argument for academicians! I know my knowledge of dinosaurs begins and ends with: "Flintstones! Meet the Flintstones! They're a modern stone-age fam-a-leee......."
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Ruyur
I can't believe you like money too. We should h...
06:59 AM on 03/04/2012
And that is ok, just don't believe anyone who tells you that that fantasy entertainment show is the honest-to-God truth.
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LMPE
I connect the most dissimilar things
01:17 AM on 03/06/2012
Little did the creators know that it represents what the fundy Christians believe.
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
04:41 AM on 03/05/2012
But when Fred wants to trade up to a new model, which should it be?
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Keith Roragen
08:07 PM on 03/03/2012
The lack of intermediate fossil argument reminds me a lot of creationist arguments. If Torosaurs are a distinct species, I'd assume we'd find baby Torosaurs.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DAE
11:26 AM on 03/04/2012
Easier said than done.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Darkingz
Never wait for life to pass you by
04:43 AM on 03/05/2012
The whole point is that fossils are not likely to be found or made in the first place. Considering that the dinosaurs completely dominated the landscape back in the jurrassic and we are only finding so little fossils only goes to show that lack of fossils is really not something that can be used for conclusive proof of ID or creationism. Plus both are a psuedoscience since they rely on faith or a magical being. Once you start relying on magicalness then you'll never get anywhere in science.
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Keith Roragen
08:47 PM on 03/05/2012
Then Longrich's argument about the lack of intermediates between Torosaurus an Triceratops is rubbish.
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englishman545
English Born, Brooklyn Raised
02:58 PM on 03/18/2012
Once you believe in science you won't get anywhere in science, just requests for more funding.
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Babele
your micro-bio is empty
06:45 PM on 03/03/2012
Why is it that the factual history of our Earth brings out the nutjobs? Please spare me from the supernatural gibberish.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Fran Jaime
Yo Soy 132!
02:07 AM on 03/05/2012
You know, I just don't get WHY they even come into the Science section!
ThinkCreeps
Seriously, it's time.
04:41 AM on 03/05/2012
They're trying to save our souls and rot our brains.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
CabinAgue
We are ALL in this together.
09:57 AM on 03/05/2012
Seriously.  Couldn't they just leave it be?  They aren't interested in any of it any way.  It's not our fault they think every bit of science challenges their rigid definition of a sky daddy.  (And I say it that way on purpose, because not all religious people are afraid of science.)