Dharun Ravi Trial: NJ Spycam Case Stirs Debate Over Hate Crime Laws

Dharun Ravi

NEW YORK -- There was a verdict in the wrenching Rutgers webcam spying case, but no resolution to a broader question that hovered over it: To what extent are hate crime laws a help or a hindrance in the pursuit of justice?

The gist of the verdict: Former Rutgers University student Dharun Ravi was convicted Friday of anti-gay intimidation for using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life. The roommate, 18-year-old Tyler Clementi, threw himself to his death off a bridge not long after realizing he'd been watched.

While disavowing any sense of celebration, some gay-rights leaders commended the outcome as a vindication of hate crimes legislation.

"We do believe this verdict sends the important message that a `kids will be kids' defense is no excuse to bully another student," said Steven Goldstein, chair of Garden State Equality.

In other quarters, there was dismay at the use of New Jersey's hate crimes law in the case, and at the verdict that could saddle 20-year-old Ravi with a prison sentence of 10 years or more despite a dearth of evidence that he hated gays.

"It illustrates why hate crime laws are not a good idea," said James Jacobs, a law professor at New York University. "They were passed to be admired and not to be used."

A longtime gay rights activist in New York, Bill Dobbs, also was troubled by the case.

"As hate crime prosecutions mount, the problems with these laws are becoming more obvious ... how they compromise cherished constitutional principles," Dobbs said. "Now a person gets tried not just for misdeeds, but for who they are, what they believe, what their character is."

Hate crime laws have been an American institution for decades, and are on the books in 45 states. Generally, they provide enhanced penalties for crimes committed out of racial, ethnic or religious basis, while the laws in about 30 states, including New Jersey, also cover offenses based on sexual orientation.

In 2009, Congress followed suit, expanding federal hate-crimes legislation to cover crimes motivated by bias against gays, lesbians and transgender people. The bill is known as the Matthew Shepard Act, in honor of the gay college student brutally murdered in Wyoming in 1998.

According to the latest FBI statistics, 1,528 people were targeted by anti-gay hate crimes in 2010 – accounting for almost 19 percent of all reported hate crimes.

Lambda Legal, a national gay-rights legal group, said the Ravi verdict underscored the value of hate crime legislation.

"Hate crime laws are public statements that our government and our society recognize the deep wounds inflicted when violence is motivated by prejudice and hate," said the group's deputy legal director, Hayley Gorenberg. "The verdict ... demonstrates that the jurors understood that bias crimes do not require physical weapons like a knife in one's hand."

Asked about the debate over hate crime laws, Gorenberg stressed the need to consider the plight of victimized gays and lesbians, especially young people.

"If this is the case that propels us to wholesale reconsidering of hate crime laws, we're missing the boat," she said. "I'd urge people to rethink a different question – what's going on in our schools and society such that we have young people experiencing invasions of their privacy, harassment, discrimination and despair, sometimes ending in tragedy."

Some conservative legal groups campaigned vigorously against the Matthew Shepard Act, dubbing it a "thought crimes" bill that would potentially criminalize anti-gay speech as well as anti-gay violence.

"These laws serve only one purpose – they criminalize thoughts and beliefs that are not considered politically correct," said Erik Stanley, senior legal counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund.

"There's a clash and a conflict – I don't know that it's here yet, but it's coming – with freedom of expression and freedom of religion," Stanley said.

Jacobs, the NYU professor, has depicted hate crime laws as unnecessary and counterproductive, albeit popular among certain politicians.

"It's one thing to pass them, and everyone is proud to say they're opposed to hate and bigotry," he said. "Yet occasionally these laws are used in cases like this (the Ravi trial)... What he did was immature, stupid, wrong, but to make this a poster case for hate crimes shows the weakness, the whole misapplication of the idea."

For the American Civil Liberties Union, which strives to defend both freedom of expression and gay rights, hate crimes legislation can raise some complicated questions.

Chris Anders, the ALCU's senior legislative counsel for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender rights, said the organization supports aspects of federal hate crimes policy that allow for federal intervention in cases where state or local officials are deemed to be remiss.

However, he said the ACLU has been concerned about the possibility that hate crimes trials could make use of evidence not directly related to the crime – a defendant's past comments or reading material, for example.

Anders said the ALCU withdrew its support for the Matthew Shepard Act because it did not include certain language addressing this concern.

"In our view, hate crimes statutes focused on violent acts can be constitutional, whereas those focused on discriminatory speech are not," Anders said.

He recalled that during debate on the Matthew Shepard Act, many Republicans assailed it and many Democrats lauded it.

"Most of these things are much more nuanced, and it's hard to get people to focus on that," Anders said.

___

CASE TIMELINE PHOTOS:

Loading Slideshow

• Dharun Ravi, Steve Altman

  Dharun Ravi, 20, right, walks out of Middlesex County jail with his attorney Steven Altman, in North Brunswick, N.J., Tuesday, June 19, 2012. Ravi, the former Rutgers University student who was convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man was released from jail Tuesday after serving 20 days of a 30-day sentence. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• This undated file photograph provided by Joseph and Jane Clementi shows their son Tyler Clementi at a family function. Opening arguments took place on Feb. 24, 2012 in the trial of a former Rutgers University student found guilty of using a webcam to spy on his roommate Clementi's intimate encounter with another man. (Clementi Family / AP)

• Dharun Ravi, Steve Altman

  Dharun Ravi, 20, right, walks out of Middlesex County jail with his attorney Steven Altman, in North Brunswick, N.J., Tuesday, June 19, 2012. The Indian-born former Rutgers University student who was convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man was released from jail Tuesday after serving 20 days of a 30-day sentence. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Dharun Ravi, Steve Altman

• Dharun Ravi

  Dharun Ravi, 20, walks out of Middlesex County jail in North Brunswick, N.J., Tuesday, June 19, 2012. The Indian-born former Rutgers University student who was convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man was released from jail Tuesday after serving 20 days of a 30-day sentence. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Dharun Ravi sits in court during his sentencing in New Brunswick, N.J., Monday, May 21, 2012. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student who used a webcam to watch his roommate kiss another man days before the roommate killed himself, was sentenced Monday to 30 days in jail. A judge also gave 20-year-old Dharun Ravi three years of probation. (Mel Evans, AP)

• Dharun Ravi

  Dharun Ravi, 22, arrives at the Middlesex County sheriff's department in New Brunswick, N.J., Thursday, May 31, 2012. The former Rutgers University student convicted of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate reported to the sheriff on his way to jail. Ravi arrived at the sheriff's department shortly after 12:30 p.m. to be fingerprinted and photographed before being driven to the county jail to serve a 30-day term. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Dharun Ravi

  Dharun Ravi, 22, is photographed by the media as he arrives at the Middlesex County sheriff's department in New Brunswick, N.J., Thursday, May 31, 2012. The former Rutgers University student convicted of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate reported to the sheriff on his way to jail. Ravi arrived at the sheriff's department shortly after 12:30 p.m. to be fingerprinted and photographed before being driven to the county jail to serve a 30-day term. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• A Middlesex County Sheriff's Dept. van, reportedly transporting Dharun Ravi to jail, drives away from the sheriff's office in New Brunswick, N.J., Thursday, May 31, 2012. The former Rutgers University student convicted of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate turned himself in shortly after 12:30 p.m. to be fingerprinted and photographed before being driven to the county jail to serve a 30-day term. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Ravi Pazhani

  Ravi Pazhani, leaves the Middlesex County sheriff's department past officers and the media in New Brunswick, N.J., Thursday, May 31, 2012, after the arrival of his son, Dharun Ravi. The former Rutgers University student convicted of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate was to report to the sheriff on his way to jail. Ravi, 22, arrived at the sheriff's department shortly after 12:30 p.m. to be fingerprinted and photographed before being driven to the county jail to serve a 30-day term. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Philip Nettl, Dharun Ravi, Sabitha Ravi

• Dharun Ravi, center, listens to a court officer with his attorneys Philip Nettl, left, and Steve Altman, during his sentencing in New Brunswick, N.J., Monday, May 21, 2012. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student who used a webcam to watch his roommate kiss another man days before the roommate killed himself was sentenced Monday to 30 days in jail. A judge also gave 20-year-old Dharun Ravi three years of probation. (Mel Evans, AP)

• Joseph Clementi,Jane Clementi

  Tyler Clementi's parents, Joseph Clementi and Jane Clementi, look on during a sentencing hearing for Dharun Ravi, in New Brunswick, N.J., Monday, May 21, 2012. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student who used a webcam to watch his roommate, Tyler Clementi, kiss another man days before Clementi killed himself, was sentenced Monday to 30 days in jail. A judge also gave 20-year-old Dharun Ravi three years of probation. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• As fellow defense attorney Steve Altman, third left, listens, attorney Philip Nettl, left, speaks on behalf of Dharun Ravi, second left, as Middlesex County First Assistant Prosecutor Julia McClure, second right, and Assistant Prosecutor Chris Schellhorn, right, listen during a sentencing hearing for Ravi in New Brunswick, N.J., Monday, May 21, 2012. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student who used a webcam to watch his roommate kiss another man days before the roommate killed himself, was sentenced Monday to 30 days in jail. A judge also gave 20-year-old Dharun Ravi three years of probation. (Mel Evans, AP)

• Dharun Ravi, center, is helped by his father, Ravi Pazhani, second right, as they leave court around in New Brunswick, N.J., Friday, March 16, 2012. Defense attorney Philip Nettl follows, second left. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life has been convicted of bias intimidation and invasion of privacy. A jury found that he used a webcam to spy on roommate Tyler Clementi. Within days, Clementi realized he had been watched and jumped to his death from New York's George Washington Bridge in September 2010. (Mel Evans, AP)

• Several hundred supporters rally in front of the New Jersey Statehouse in Trenton, N.J., Monday, May 14, 2012, on behalf of Dharun Ravi, the former Rutgers University student convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man. The 20-year-old was convicted in March and faces up to 10 years in prison. The case garnered national attention because his roommate, Tyler Clementi, killed himself in September 2010, just days after the spying. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Jane Clementi hugs a family member following the verdict in the trial of Dharun Ravi, on Friday, March 16, 2012 at the Middlesex Superior Court in New Brunswick, N.J. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life has been convicted of bias intimidation and invasion of privacy. A jury found that he used a webcam to spy on roommate Tyler Clementi. Within days, Clementi realized he had been watched and jumped to his death from New York's George Washington Bridge in September 2010. (AP Photo/The Star-Ledger, Jerry McCrea, Pool)

• Renuka Desai, of Edison, N.J., holds a sign and a flag as she joins several hundred supporters at a rally in front of the New Jersey Statehouse in Trenton, N.J., Monday, May 14, 2012, on behalf of Dharun Ravi, the former Rutgers University student convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man. The 20-year-old was convicted in March and faces up to 10 years in prison. The case garnered national attention because his roommate, Tyler Clementi, killed himself in September 2010, just days after the spying. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Sabitha Ravi, center, talks outside the New Jersey Statehouse about her son, Dharun Ravi, in Trenton, N.J., Monday, May 14, 2012. Supporters rallied on behalf of Dharun, the former Rutgers University student convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man. The case garnered national attention because his roommate, Tyler Clementi, killed himself in September 2010, just days after the spying. Ravi Pazhani, right, and Satish Mehtani, left, watch. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Nachhatar Singh, right, and Gill Harjit wait to join several hundred supporters outside the New Jersey Statehouse in Trenton, N.J., Monday, May 14, 2012, on behalf of Dharun Ravi, the former Rutgers University student convicted of bias intimidation for using a webcam to see his roommate kissing another man. The case garnered national attention because his roommate, Tyler Clementi, killed himself in September 2010, just days after the spying. (AP Photo/Mel Evans)

• Dharun Ravi, center, is helped by his father, Ravi Pazhani, right, as they leave court around noon in New Brunswick, N.J., Friday, March 16, 2012. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life has been convicted of bias intimidation and invasion of privacy. A jury found that he used a webcam to spy on roommate Tyler Clementi. Within days, Clementi realized he had been watched and jumped to his death from New York's George Washington Bridge in September 2010. (Mel Evans, AP)

• Dharun Ravi, former Rutgers student found guilty of using a webcam to spy on his roommate's intimate encounter with another man, leaves Middlesex County Court on Dec. 9, 2011 in New Brunswick, N.J. Ravi rejected a plea deal that would have kept him out of prison and sought to prevent his deportation, accepting the gamble of a trial. Tyler Clementi, 18, committed suicide days after the alleged spying in September 2010. Ravi, 19, is not charged in connection with Clementi's death. (Noah K. Murray, AP)

• Superior Court Judge Glenn Berman talks to the jurors after their verdict in the trial of Dharun Ravi, on Friday, March 16, 2012 at the Middlesex Superior Court in New Brunswick, N.J. Ravi, a former Rutgers University student accused of using a webcam to spy on his gay roommate's love life has been convicted of bias intimidation and invasion of privacy. A jury found that he used a webcam to spy on roommate Tyler Clementi. Within days, Clementi realized he had been watched and jumped to his death from New York's George Washington Bridge in September 2010. (AP Photo/The Star-Ledger, Jerry McCrea, Pool)

• Dharun Ravi, former Rutgers University student listened to his attorney Steve Altman as he rejected a new plea offer at Middlesex County Court on Dec. 9, 2011 in New Brunswick, N.J. Ravi was found guilty of using a webcam to spy on his roommate, Tyler Clementi, during an intimate encounter with another man. Clementi, 18, committed suicide days after the alleged spying in September 2010. (Noah K. Murray, AP)

• In this May 6, 2011 photo, Molly Wei, the former Rutgers student charged with Dharun Ravi with invading the privacy of Tyler Clementi, looks at the prosecutors during her appearance before Superior Court Judge Glenn Berman at the Middlesex County Courthouse in New Brunswick, N.J. (Frank H. Conlon, AP)

• Jane Clementi, right, and her husband, Joseph Clementi, left, attend a symposium on use and misuse of social media at Rutgers University on Nov. 14, 2011, in Piscataway, N.J. Their son, Tyler Clementi, was in his first weeks as a student at Rutgers in September 2010 when he killed himself after a roommate used a webcam to spy on Clementi's intimate encounter with another man. The family has started a foundation in their son's honor to address cyberbullying. (Julio Cortez, AP)

• In this Dec. 9, 2011 photo, Jane Clementi looks at family photographs at her home in Ridgewood, N.J. Jane Clementi, the mother of Tyler Clementi, a Rutgers student who killed himself after his roommate used a webcam to spy on his intimate encounter with another man, says that he had a lot on his mind just before he went to college. His mother says that in one conversation a few days before Tyler left for college he told her that he was gay, had doubts about his religious beliefs and was sad that he did not have close friends. (Mel Evans, AP)

• In this Oct. 1, 2010 photo, Rutgers University students sign condolence cards at Rutgers in New Brunswick, N.J., for the family of fellow student Tyler Clementi. Rutgers University has planned a silent vigil to remember Clementi, who committed suicide after his sexual encounter was secretly streamed online. (Mel Evans, AP)

• U. S. Sen. Bob Menendez, D-N.J., speaks at a statewide town meeting in memory of Rutgers student Tyler Clementi on Oct. 6, 2010 at the Rutgers University Student Center in New Brunswick, N.J. (Bill Kostroun, AP)

• New Jersey Sen. Barbara Buono, D-Edison, stands with other lawmakers on Oct. 25, 2010, in Trenton, N.J., as she answers a question about a bill they introduced to toughen the state's anti-bullying laws after the widely publicized suicide of Rutgers University student Tyler Clementi. The bipartisan group of lawmakers touted the "anti-bullying bill of rights" targeting public schools and colleges. (Mel Evans, AP)

• In this Dec. 9, 2011 photo, Joseph Clementi looks at his wife, Jane Clementi, as they sit in Ridgewood, N.J. (Mel Evans, AP)

• People walk outside Davidson Hall "C" Thursday, Sept. 30, 2010, in Piscataway, N.J. The death of Tyler Clementi, 18, a Rutgers University freshman living in the dorm, has stirred outrage and remorse among classmates who said they wished they could have stopped the teen from jumping off a bridge after secret video of his sexual encounter with a man was streamed online. Clementi's roommate, Dharun Ravi, was found guilty of invading Clementi's privacy. (Mel Evans, AP)

• In this Dec. 9, 2011 photo, Jane Clementi answers a question as she sits with husband Joseph Clementi as they talk about their son Tyler, in their home in Ridgewood, N.J. The parents of Tyler Clementi, a Rutgers student who killed himself after his roommate used a webcam to spy on his intimate encounter with another man, say that he had a lot on his mind just before he went to college. (Mel Evans, AP)

• In this Oct. 3, 2010 file photo, people participate in a candlelight vigil for Rutgers University freshman Tyler Clementi at Brower Commons on the Rutgers campus in New Brunswick, N.J. Clementi jumped off the George Washington Bridge into the Hudson River on Sept. 22 after intimate images of him with another man in his dorm room were broadcast online. (Reena Rose Sibayan, AP)

• In this May 23, 2011 file photo, Joe Clementi, top left, and his wife, Jane, right, sit inside Judge Glenn Berman's courtroom at the Middlesex County Courthouse during a hearing for Dharun Ravi, in the webcam-spying case involving the suicide of their son Tyler Clementi, in New Brunswick, N.J. Joe and Jane Clementi said Friday, March 23, 2012, that a jury got it right last week by convicting their son's roommate, Ravi, of hate crimes and other offenses. (AP Photo/Julio Cortez, File)

• In a March 9, 2012 file photo, Dharun Ravi, the former Rutgers University student who was found guilty of hate crimes for using a webcam to view his roommate at Rutgers University kissing another man, waits before court proceedings in New Brunswick, N.J. In a legal filing Tuesday, May 1, 2012, Ravi's lawyers asked a judge to overturn the jury's conviction. They said the jury convicted Ravi in March despite evidence that he was not guilty of invading the privacy or intimidating roommate Tyler Clementi, who killed himself days after the webcam was used. (AP Photo/The Star-Ledger, John Munson, Pool, File)

• Dharun Ravi, Joseph Benedict

  FILE - In this May 30, 2012, file photo, Dharun Ravi, right, sits with his attorney Joseph Benedict during a hearing in New Brunswick, N.J. Ravi, the former Rutgers University student convicted of using his webcam to watch his roommate kiss another man, is due to be released from jail Tuesday, June 19 after serving 20 days of a 30 day sentence. Ravi reported to jail last month even though he could have remained free during an appeal of the case. (AP Photo/Mel Evans, File)

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Comments

[dsny22]

01:18 AM on 04/12/2012

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[Richard Getchell]

12:19 PM on 04/08/2012

To charge a person based on their opinions are beliefs is wrong.
By doing so, we’re no better than that person whom committed a crime based on a opinion.
A crime is a crime, doesn’t matter why you committed it.
We need to focus on the crimes committed from invasion of privacy, assault, disturbing the peace, and disorderly conduct.
We need to take mental health and rehabilitation there of into huge consideration. More often than not this is learned though parents or specific parts of society and requires mental health services to address these feelings of hate towards a person or persons.
Also mental health for those whom are “bullied” is highly needed and must be forced upon the “bullied”.
Locking up a twenty year old for life or close to it isn’t solving the problem WE need to act quickly and hand down and out to those whom are being bullied to safely report these happenings and charges be swiftly handed down to those committing the crimes. Also as said Mental health services are highly needed.
I also think its wrong to charge a man with the death of another when that person took his own life. A personal choice was made however horrid it was, it was still a choice, and not murder. We need to correct this now, and look past the feelings of dislike or hate towards what happened to help rehabilitation for everyone as a whole not point fingers and say look what you did!

[JP Archer]

05:52 PM on 03/22/2012

Any decent human being who knows of anyone, or is like myself, who has been the victim of actual hate crimes including physical violence & losing a partner at the hands of bigots knows the difference between prosecuting "mean people" vs "those with hate as motive to cause harm" and shouldnt have a hard time seeing what is wrong with the handling of this case, the media exagerations,peoples misinformation, the verdict or the shamelessly hateful bias public reaction towards Ravi that serve no purpose but to prove the hypocrisy at play here.

The world isnt a better place with Ravi potentially locked away. Many of you havent learned to curb your own bias & hateful comments. Homophobes certainly wont. I dont wish him ill. He's branded for life anyway. He should serve time for violating privacy. Save legislation for punishing that and true hate crimes that surpass tweeting "he kissed a dud. yay!"

[Clark Magnuson]

03:50 PM on 03/21/2012

Hate crime is a concept in the emotional world.

That has no place in the criminal justice system.

Laws are about behavior, not emotions.

[SuperBenFranklin]

01:24 PM on 03/21/2012

Hate crime laws should be used for actual hate crimes. All evidence shows that this was not one. The jury got it very wrong on the bias charge, probably because they were tainted by the initial very wrong reporting that Ravi caused suicide when he did not.

[climbing panda]

04:58 PM on 03/20/2012

hate crimes set the stage for the theater of the absurd.

[billy goat]

06:56 PM on 03/19/2012

I'm a gay person. The circumstances around this crime and Tyler Clemente's suicide in the aftermath are all beyone heartbreaking. Here two sets of parents send their children out to begin their lives in the world in the most independent way yet, and within weeks this is the outcome. Horrible!

As guilty as Ravi is, I can't get behind destroying this guy's life for the sake of his crime. The best thing that could happen for Ravi is an epiphany that redirects his power for better uses.
I don't want hear for others who say I don't know how they feel, cause I do. My mother was killed by someone years ago. I'm so glad that in the aftermath of that tragedy, it was not compounded by the person responsible having their life ruined. It is no honor to the individual or the survivors.

[joemondo]

08:26 AM on 03/20/2012

Ravi refused two plea deals, one with no jail time.

He ruined his own life.

[billy goat]

12:01 PM on 03/20/2012

Black and white thinking is ruining the world. We have options. It is not necessary to ruin lives so that you can feel vindication.

[bluejoni2525]

07:52 PM on 03/20/2012

I couldn't agree with you more !! This a case that could use some "creative sentencing" from the judge like having Ravi go around to different schools and telling the kids about his experience and how dopey he was!! Ten years in prison is ridiculous !!

[Drew Palmer]

02:36 PM on 03/19/2012

Every crime is a hate crime.

[oakbranch]

02:17 PM on 03/19/2012

I agree with James Jacobs, the NYU law professor. Hate crimes laws involve the government attempting to assess how much prejudice a person harbors, and determine if this prejudice was a factor in a crime. This approach presents many problems, to assess something so subjective and that can vary inside a person on a day-to-day basis. And really, is the police officer or the prosecutor above reproach in their own thoughts?

I believe in executing the law in ways that rely on empirical types of evidence, for example, in this case Ravi DID set up a webcam to record his roomate. So he did violate laws of privacy. I do not believe, though, that the government should become the Thought Police.

[joemondo]

11:52 PM on 03/19/2012

You're in denial if you think jury decisions are made based on empirical evidence.

Juries have to assess is motive and intent all the time.

[oakbranch]

10:31 AM on 03/20/2012

But prior to hate crime legislation, juries did not have to acertain how much prejudicde someone held in an effort to convict of a greater offense.

[Ed Baker]

11:00 AM on 03/19/2012

Motive is, and always has been a factor in determining sentence. We punish murder for hire much more severely than we punish negligent homicide.

Hate crimes laws are only sentence clarifications.

I'm old enough to remember a time when just about any crime with a gay victim was a crime unpunished.

Probably the most horrible example is the murder of Paul Broussard in Texas - five young men beat a man to death and were barely punished at all - the judge in the case defended the light sentences by saying the victim asked for it by being gay, going to a gay club and "spreading aids around." The victim didn't have aids - but was jumped by 5 men in the parking lot of a gay bar.

[oakbranch]

02:22 PM on 03/19/2012

The case in TX involved a lack of justice due to the prejudice if those in the judicial system itself. To correct this should not involve adding a new layer of crime definitions. To assess how much prejudice a person has inside is a hard task, and a faulty one. I say, prosecute laws to the fullest, but Hate Crimes statutes are dangerous to a free society, & capriciously enforced.

[Ed Baker]

02:58 PM on 03/19/2012

Judges use the orientation of the victim as a "mitigating circumstance" at sentence - these laws simply clarify that it is an "aggravating circumstance" at sentence.

Motive is, and always has been completely relevant. Further, crimes committed to further political or religious aims have ALWAYS been punished much more severely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea

[joemondo]

11:53 PM on 03/19/2012

Nonsense.

"How much prejudice" is not assessed, but the intent behind the crime is.

[Stanislav Sharovskiy]

10:42 AM on 03/20/2012

//Hate crimes laws are only sentence clarifications.//

The New Jersey Bias Intimidation statute codifies bias as an element of the crime. If bias cannot be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt, there can be no conviction for bias intimidation. It is not a sentencing clarification. Moreover, the New Jersey status permits a conviction for bias intimidation if the victim perceived the underlying crime as occurring because of their sexual orientation, or race, or religion, etc. Under New Jersey law, a person can be convicted of bias intimidation even if they hold no bias whatsoever. That is a patently unjust result.

Alternatively, assuming for the sake of argument that the element of bias was a sentencing aggravating factor rather than a definitional element of the crime, it does nothing to change the fact that a factual determination must be made into the subjective attitudes of a person that may have absolutely nothing to do with the crime.

What evidence is needed to prove anti-gay bias? Literature one has read? Things one has said in the past about gays? Religious associations? Conservative politics? Television shows watched?

Such laws permit the exploitation, as well as punishment, of things that are otherwise protected under the first amendment. That is problem with these laws. A lack of criminal justice in the past is not a good enough reason to eviscerate first amendment freedom and the freedom of conscience going forward.

[Ed Baker]

01:03 PM on 03/20/2012

How about this statement “Yeah keep the gays away.”

Or this one - “Roommate asked for the room till midnight. I went into Molly’s room and turned on my webcam. I saw him making out with a dude. Yay.”

Or this one? “Anyone with iChat, I dare you to video chat me between the hours of 9:30 p.m. and 12. Yes it’s happening again.”

OR ----

On September 21, Ravi urged Huang to get on iChat, because he intended to spy on another encounter between Clementi and M.B.

Ravi: “Be careful it could get nasty.”

Ravi: “OMFG people are having a viewing party with a bottle of Bacardi and beer in this kids room for roommate.”

[BooBoo Bob]

09:35 AM on 03/19/2012

Hate crime laws "were passed to be admired not used"? What world does this man live on? So sorry, but they WERE to be used since they EXIST. I know there's a concern about "thought policing" but if you're going to commit a crime, motive is going to be investigated and if it turns out that your crime is motivated by bias, then that's a factor in your case.

[oakbranch]

02:26 PM on 03/19/2012

& how do the police go around trying to assesss bias? By looking at a text where someone writes the word "dude"? If you are going to prosecute someone based on their thoughts, you had better have more evidence than that.

[BooBoo Bob]

03:09 PM on 03/19/2012

A person is never arrested for bias. The charge is assigned after motive has been established.

[oakbranch]

02:46 PM on 03/19/2012

How does the govenment assess degree of bias?
For it to be just, it would require a VERY extenstive investigation, speaking to people who have known Ravi for a long time and also trying to find Ravi's personal writings expressing bias or hatred.

[BooBoo Bob]

03:10 PM on 03/19/2012

And thus we have his Twitter feed, which he tried to erase, thereby we have the "tampering with evidence" charge.

[joemondo]

11:54 PM on 03/19/2012

Again, nonsense. "Degree of bias" is not assessed.

Why don't you look at the actual statutes instead of making crud up?

[SuperBenFranklin]

09:08 AM on 03/19/2012

Part 2:

Of course, not everyone thinks like this, but it is a dangerous thought to perpetuate, and it does lead to the feeling of helplessness that Tyler felt.

So teach kids that good and bad things happen, and many times it is not because of a perceived group they belong to. Tyler was awarded a great spot in the orchestra because he was an amazing Violin player, not because he was gay. And most likely, he was spied on because he was the roomate of a jerky kid with a web cam program, not because he was gay.

After all, if he was straight kid with a 26 year old girl he met online, you bet Ravi would have had that camera on too.

[dws51564]

12:03 PM on 03/19/2012

You can bet all you like but that doesn't change the verdict.

[SuperBenFranklin]

12:14 PM on 03/19/2012

The appeal will most certainly change the verdict. I'll place that bet.

[SuperBenFranklin]

09:06 AM on 03/19/2012

This case shows one of things I've always felt was wrong.

Many times, people think because I am something (part of a group, a minority member, even a majority member), everything that happens to me is soley because of that.

For example, people looking at this, they see Ravi using a webcam soley because Tyler was gay, rather than see the bigger picture: Ravi creating webcam technology to turn it on and trying to test it on his friends, Ravi trying to look cool on Twitter, Ravi having a history of jerky behavior. It is very likely that regardless of who was Ravi's roommate, gay, straight, male or female, someone was going to get spied on that semester. Not because of who they were, but because Ravi had this new web cam tech he created and had the jerky mindset to use it.

So when this happened, everyone jumped on: It is because Tyler is gay! Even when the rest of the data came out in things like the New Yorker article and painted a more complex case.

Now, why is this bad? Because it sends a message to young gay people. Everything bad that happens to you, happens because you are gay, and since you can't change being gay, bad things will always happen for the rest of your life. And this is a dangerous thought to perpetuate.

[joemondo]

09:41 AM on 03/19/2012

The jury has to go with the evidence and the charges, not your fantasies of what it will mean.

[dws51564]

12:02 PM on 03/19/2012

Continuing to try and twist the facts to fit your personal opinions of what happened won't change the juries verdict. You become more desperate with every post.

[Jonnyboy007]

05:15 AM on 03/19/2012

Maybe, we need to include certain topics in university orientation for the students comming from other countries explaining what is acceptable and nonacceptable behaviour. It may surprise you, but I can bet a lot of them are not exposed to the vast cultures we have within our borders. The cultural shock of what is acceptable in US can be quiet big. I dont know if universities and colleges already do so or not. I know in my time, there was no such topic during orientation!

[mikey09]

10:07 AM on 03/19/2012

Ravi lived in this country legally since he was like two yrs old, not much different then the illegal kids who are raised here after their families bring them into this country...he was raised in American culture.

[BloUrHausDown]

03:02 AM on 03/19/2012

Don't want to do the time? Don't do the crime!