iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Supreme Court Justices Signal Deep Trouble For Obama's Health Care Reform Law

By MARK SHERMAN 03/27/12 05:55 PM ET AP

Supreme Court Justices

WASHINGTON — The fate of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul was cast into deeper jeopardy Tuesday as the Supreme Court's conservative justices sharply and repeatedly questioned its core requirement that virtually every American carry insurance. The court will now take up whether any remnant of the historic law can survive if that linchpin fails.

The justices' questions in Tuesday's hearing carried deeply serious implications but were sometimes flavored with fanciful suggestions. If the government can force people to buy health insurance, justices wanted to know, can it require people to buy burial insurance? Cellphones? Broccoli?

The law, pushed to passage by Obama and congressional Democrats two years ago, would affect nearly all Americans and extend insurance coverage to 30 million people who now lack it. Republicans are strongly opposed, including the presidential contenders now campaigning for the chance to challenge Obama in November.

Audio for Tuesday's court argument can be found at: . http://apne.ws/Hft6z3

The court focused on whether the mandate for Americans to have insurance "is a step beyond what our cases allow," in the words of Justice Anthony Kennedy.

But Kennedy, who is often the swing vote on cases that divide the justices along ideological lines, also said he recognized the magnitude of the nation's health care problems and seemed to suggest they would require a comprehensive solution.

He and Chief Justice John Roberts emerged as the apparent pivotal votes in the court's decision. The ruling is due in June in the midst of a presidential election campaign that has focused in part on the new law.

Though many of the justices asked tough questions and made strong statements, past cases have shown that those don't necessarily translate into votes when it comes time for a decision.

Wednesday's final arguments – the third day in the unusually long series of hearings – will focus on whether the rest of the law can remain even if the insurance mandate is struck down and, separately, on the constitutionality of another provision expanding the federal-state Medicaid program.

The insurance requirement is intended to complement two unchallenged provisions of the law that require insurers to cover people regardless of existing medical conditions and limit how much they can charge in premiums based on a person's age or health.

The law envisions that insurers will be able to accommodate older and sicker people without facing financial ruin because the insurance requirement will provide insurance companies with more premiums from healthy people to cover the increased costs of care.

The biggest issue, to which the justices returned repeatedly during two hours of arguments in a packed courtroom, was whether the government can force people to buy insurance.

"Purchase insurance in this case, something else in the next case," Roberts said.

"If the government can do this, what else can it not do?" Justice Antonin Scalia asked. He and Justice Samuel Alito appeared likely to join with Justice Clarence Thomas, the only justice to ask no questions, to vote to strike down the key provision of the overhaul. The four Democratic appointees seemed ready to vote to uphold it.

Kennedy at one point said that allowing the government mandate would "change the relationship" between the government and U.S. citizens.

"Do you not have a heavy burden of justification to show authorization under the Constitution" for the individual mandate? asked Kennedy.

At another point, however, he also acknowledged the complexity of resolving the issue of paying for America's health care needs.

"I think it is true that if most questions in life are matters of degree ... the young person who is uninsured is uniquely proximately very close to affecting the rates of insurance and the costs of providing medical care in a way that is not true in other industries. That's my concern in the case," Kennedy said.

Roberts also spoke about the uniqueness of health care, which almost everyone uses at some point.

"Everybody is in this market, so that makes it very different than the market for cars or the other hypotheticals that you came up with, and all they're regulating is how you pay for it," Roberts said, paraphrasing the government's argument.

Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. sought to assure the court that the insurance mandate in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act that Obama signed into law in 2009 is a key part of the law's goal of reaching many of the more than 40 million people who don't have health insurance through their employers, don't qualify for government aid and cannot afford to buy coverage on their own.

Paul Clement, who is representing Florida and 25 other states in challenging the law, called the mandate "an unprecedented effort by Congress."

Clement, a predecessor of Verrilli's as solicitor general, said the requirement would force people, especially those who are young and healthy, to buy a product they don't want.

Michael Carvin, representing the National Federation of Independent Business in opposing the law, also pushed hard on the notion of individual freedom. When Justice Stephen Breyer asked if the federal government could not order vaccinations "if there was some terrible epidemic sweeping the United States," Carvin said no. Congress lacks the power to do so, he said.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said she found the debate over health care similar to an earlier era's argument about the Social Security retirement system. How could Congress be able to compel younger workers to contribute to Social Security but be limited in its ability to address health care? she wondered.

"There's something very odd about that, that the government can take over the whole thing and we all say, oh, yes, that's fine, but if the government wants to preserve private insurers, it can't do that," she said.

Scalia and Roberts noted that the health care overhaul law would make people get insurance for things they may not need, such as heart transplants or pregnancy services. "You can't say that everybody is going to participate in substance abuse services," Roberts said.

On the other hand, Ginsburg said, "The people who don't participate in this market are making it more expensive for those who do."

"You could say that about buying a car," Scalia retorted, noting that if enough people don't buy cars the cost could go up.

But, unlike cars, almost everyone eventually will be required to use the health care system, Verrilli said in defense of the law. Without health insurance, he said, "you're going to the market without the ability to pay for what you're going to get."

Members of Congress on both sides of the fight sat through Tuesday's arguments, along with Attorney General Eric Holder and Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. Republicans opposed to the law in the audience included Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, Sen. John Cornyn of Texas and Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Also at the court were Democratic supporters including Sen. Pat Leahy of Vermont, Sen. Max Baucus of Montana and Reps. John Dingell and John Conyers, both of Michigan.

Demonstrators returned Tuesday to the sidewalk outside the Supreme Court, with more than 100 supporters of the law circling and chanting, "I love Obamacare." They carried signs reading slogans such as "A healthy America is a productive America" and `'Protect the law."

More than a dozen opponents held a news conference criticizing the bill.

Supporters, two of them wearing Statue of Liberty costumes, marched to music played over a loudspeaker. A trumpet player played "When the Saints Go Marching In" and "This Little Light of Mine," and supporters changed the lyrics to ones supporting the health care law.

One demonstrator opposing the law wore a striped prison costume and held a sign, "Obama Care is Putting the US Tax Payer in Debtors Prison."

Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, a former Republican presidential candidate, joined a tea party press conference of opponents of the law. Calling the law "the greatest expansion of federal power in the history of the country," she said, "We are calling on the court today: Declare this law unconstitutional."

___

Associated Press writers Jesse J. Holland and Jessica Gresko contributed to this report.

Earlier on HuffPost:

FOLLOW POLITICS
Subscribe to the HuffPost Hill newsletter!
WASHINGTON — The fate of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul was cast into deeper jeopardy Tuesday as the Supreme Court's conservative justices sharply and repeatedly questioned its co...
WASHINGTON — The fate of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul was cast into deeper jeopardy Tuesday as the Supreme Court's conservative justices sharply and repeatedly questioned its co...
Filed by Nick Wing  | 
 
 
  • Comments
  • 91
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
Page: 1 2  Next ›  Last »  (2 total)
05:18 AM on 05/02/2012
We have become a nation more and more addicted to the government tit. We can't function unless someone tells us how. If we just give them more of our money, they can fix it all for us. They've done such a fantastic job so far with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, golly gee wiz, Social Security, Medicare, it's all working just like clock work. If our government is so adapt at prudent fiscal management why are we in the free-fall we've been experiencing? And now we will trust them with managing our healthcare? And If we need to borrow from foreign nations, what is the collateral? I mean who loans money for nothing? I don't care which political party you endorse, this country is being ripped apart. America used to rise to a challenge, not spend most of their time blaming others and there is more than enough to go around on both sides for the mess we are in. When you get what you want, I hope you want what you get. It isn't always a better trade. Btw, Justice Scalia called the ObamaCare Plan's 2,700 pages "Cruel & Unusual Punishment" (he was being light-hearted about the lengthy document). In fact it was passed without the majority of the signatores having even read it all themselves, by their own admission. That ought to give us all a lot of comfort.
09:49 AM on 04/24/2012
I cannot believe we have Supreme Court justices making stupid analogies to cell phones and broccolli. They can't possibly be that ignorant.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OnceProudAmerican
Independant and proud of it!
07:47 PM on 04/23/2012
The SC is going down a slippery slope.
When the Insurance companies are allowed free rein, they will run ruffshod over the people unable to pay their ever rising rates. They alread tell Drs what test they can run,what drugs they can perscribe and how long you may stay in the hospital.
Instead of preventave medicine they wait until you are ill to treat and then try to wait you out, HOPING you will expire before they pay for treaments.
If repealed these are a small part we have to look forward to!
Obama said when he signed this legislation that this was a start to build on- Not perfect but a start!
Instead of destroying the start ,why don't we try and build on it!
04:41 PM on 03/29/2012
Does Justice Clarence Thomas ever ask questions? This is one of the most important cases facing the Supreme Court this session, yet he sits silent!
Jamgrae
Aliyah
07:40 PM on 04/03/2012
Clarence should actually recluse himself from the entire debate because his wife is a Tea Party opponent of the Health Care mandate...and anything eles Obama wants to pass.
09:47 AM on 04/24/2012
Thomas isn't all that smart. He was put there as part of Reagan's agenda.
11:10 AM on 03/29/2012
So if the mandate to purchase health insurance fails as unconstitutional, can we now start arguing the necessity of mandates requiring we purchase car insurance, homeowners insurance, drivers licenses, pet licenses, car tags, etc in order to obtain or use homes, cars, and pets?? Why not do without it all. But wait - maybe if you don't have any insurance you cannot utilize any services. You won't be able to go to any emergency room, doctor, drive or purchase a car, buy a home, etc. None of the above are taxes either, but sooner or later we all need to use or have them. If you don't purchase, you cannot use. No insurance, no care.
08:33 AM on 03/28/2012
Yippie! Some hope!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
KeyInfo
Realist
05:03 AM on 03/28/2012
Thee is no justice in Washington any longer, just politics. No matter what the issue every governing body votes 100% the party line, no deviation. Obamacare really affects very people that already have existing health care. I am for it simply b/c it requires all those that consider the ER their primary care physician and then skip out on the bill and leave that to taxpayers. That number today is 30 million with forecasts of that reaching 60 million due to increasing health care costs. I was hoping by having more people participate in our health care system that we just might see the costs flat line or who knows even decrease. Looking slim that's it's going to pass now. But if the Supreme Court were weighed towards the Democratic Party it would pass. No one is willing to vote against Party lines anymore and the result is gridlock. A change in Parties at President will not change this gridlock. It's a sad day in hell when our Democracy supposedly the best in the world operates the poorest. And the worst part of it all is that we pay these people to do this job where little or nothing is ever accomplished. People like Darrell Issa are still investigating people, things and issues that are over two years old. Man do we need some change. Communism would almost be a better alternative. At least then we would actually see some change. I'm being somewhat facetious, of course.
11:13 AM on 03/29/2012
The supreme court justices are required to weigh the merits of the issue without consideration for party affiliations. They should not have any bias on an issue.
Jamgrae
Aliyah
07:42 PM on 04/03/2012
Except Scalisi and Thomas who have both given speeches to Tea Party rallies who oppose the Health Care mandate.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
OnceProudAmerican
Independant and proud of it!
07:55 PM on 04/23/2012
They also have Gold Star Insurance paid by us the taxpayers. Just like congress, they don't care about John Q Public. They also are human and are subject to big buisness's whims .If you think that their on our side-You are sadly mistaken!
One only needs to look at past actions(Pres elections, Super PACs) to see who they answer to.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Myer
03:03 AM on 03/28/2012
I am a lawyer, and, but for the politics, I do not see the point of this argument. I am in a state that REQUIRES me to hook onto a public sanitary sewer system, if it is installed by a Public Service Commission and it passes by my house. If I have a septic tank already installed, I still have to hook to the sewer system -- for the good of the general public and the environment of everybody. Likewise, the US Government, under Bush, mandated that we pay for and hook into a storm sewer system if we live in a populated urban area - but not rural areas. I will challenge those laws if the Supreme Court strikes down the Affordable Care Act!!! How is it different? Anybody?
11:47 AM on 03/28/2012
but you dont have to live there. You could move. That is the difference and being a lawyer, you should see that. You dont have to buy car insurance if you dont have a car. The 5 conservative Justices will strike it down. The public doesnt want it and the proverbial nail in the coffin was the CBO report saying it would cost 2.6 TRILLION instead of the 985 billion Obama said it would cost. The IRS, by law, is only suppose to collect taxes. With this bill, they are now bill collectors of fines that have nothing to do with taxes. What's next? The whole thing was half baked to begin with and this is the result.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Myer
12:17 AM on 03/29/2012
First, as to the storm water law -- that is nationwide. And besides, I can move??? So much for eminent domain and the Takings Clause. The government cannot take or denigrate my property without compensation. If one does not like the insurance mandate -- one can move -- to Canada, or Zimbabwe or whatever -- that is YOUR argument, not mine. I have to pay Social Security tax and FICA even though I may never benefit from it. Many municipalities are now charging user fees to those living ourside the city in order to work for a employer residing in the city -- even though they personally may never enter the city. ETC etc -- that is the cost of living in our increasingly crowded society. YOU can politically disagree with it and UNelect people -- but that is our remedy -- not the Supreme Court!!! I wish we could do away with Fax machines, emails, cell phones, texting, etc etc -- life is too short to be in such a hurry -- but that is today's society and I am forced to accomodate it.
btw IRS, by law, collects taxes??? Well, they just changed the law!!
02:58 AM on 03/29/2012
The nonpartisan analysis from CBO estimates that the Affordable Care Act will cost $930 billion and reduce the deficit by $210 billion over a ten year period.[CBO, 2/18/2011] 1

It will save 1 trilion/yr, cost 930 bilion, the savings automatically goes toward the deficit. Without healthcare reform, healthcare costs will continue to grow the deficit.:(

1
http://dpc.senate.gov/dpcdoc.cfm?doc_name=fs-112-1-11
11:38 PM on 03/27/2012
The argument against the mandate is stupid since we have to pay Medicare, FICA, and Medicaid taxes. If the court says the government cannot compel a citizen to take an affirmative action as Kennedy stated, then it sure as hell cannot have a military draft since that takes away a young mans LIFE, not just his money. I would hope that if they rule against the health care plan that some young men will bring suit against the Selective Service Act which requires ONLY young men between the ages of 18 and 25 to register for the draft. That can be ruled unconstitutional on all kinds of grounds such as discrimination, unequal treatment under the law,. taking of a persons LIFE by legislative fiat.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
11:00 PM on 03/27/2012
Regarding individual "freedom," those uninsured individuals who enjoy health care free of charge don't allow me much freedom to not pay for them. Why are we so worried about the freedom of the 15M-ish people out of the 40M not covered who volunteer not to buy insurance, but throw out the window the freedom of the 200M people who are forced to pay for unforseen events of those 15M??
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
10:46 PM on 03/27/2012
The argument that it forces "young and healthy" people to buy insurance when they don't need it is a crock. How many "young and healthy" people go to the ER for stupid accidents, alcohol poisoning, stupid accidents, unfortunate accidents that aren't their fault, stupid accidents?? The Mandate doesn't only cover those who are infected with bacteria or a virus, but injured! That rationale is bogus and over simplified!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Myer
03:12 AM on 03/28/2012
You mean like the redneck -- son of a redneck Republican -- 4-wheeler or motorcycle owner/rider that exercises his "personal freedom" to ride without a helmet -- and then lives on life-support for months, or spends tens of thousands in an Emergency Room -- before he is pronounced???
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
06:48 PM on 03/28/2012
Very much like that! Then they say BS like "Keep the Government outta my Medicare!" Well, that IS THE GOVERNMENT YOU STUPID!

BTW, my last comment, I think I may have misunderstood you. My mistake, Sir.
11:21 AM on 03/29/2012
You are right on. Probaby doesn't have insurance either. No money for insurance, but can afford 4-wheelers and motorcycles (that do not require insurance either.)
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jaye4412
Proud Liberal Marine..
09:57 PM on 03/27/2012
All the ones waiting for this to be repealed are going to cry bloody murder if it happens.. Because thier premiems are going to skyrocket: have a pre existing condition: no coverage for you.. Children still in school: oh well... You get the picture: Or you will..
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
11:10 PM on 03/27/2012
If they don't uphold the mandate, hopefully they uphold the rest of the law barring pre-existing conditions and the like. Unfortunately, that is going to raise operating costs, and cut into NET profits and compensation for CEOs and the board, raising premiums just as you say.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Michael Myer
03:21 AM on 03/28/2012
NO it won't cut into profits, or compensation to anyone -- it will ONLY raise premiums even more.
Jamgrae
Aliyah
08:21 PM on 04/03/2012
Without the mandate the whole plan falls apart...the health care reform bill relies on the fact that everyone participates to keep the policy funded...just like the one in Massachusettes. It's like regular insurance programs, the more people are in it, the more it can be funded and the less insurance you will have to pay. But ofcourse, if the Health Care reform bill is struck down, then things will revert back to the way it was before the idea was even proposed; skyrocketting health care costs with no stopping the insurance companies. When the SC strikes the mandate down, insurance companies will have the signal they need to run amoke....WITH YOUR MONEY.
09:27 PM on 03/27/2012
Can we be forced to buy Car insurance or Mortagage insurance or even House insurance? Just saying!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
10:51 PM on 03/27/2012
No, you can't, because you can't be forced to buy a house/car. But, the lender doesn't have to lend your $ unless you prove you have insurance.... So I guess your argument would be a hospital should be able to refuse you service unless you have insurance? That would definitely cut down the costs those who don't pay cause those who do pay.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jkelling0822
01:44 AM on 03/28/2012
Here's the thing. In order to drive, you are required, BY LAW, to carry insurance. Not just to own a car, but to drive PERIOD. I do not fault the lenders for wanting to know the car they are essentially paying for will be covered under insurance. In fact, I believe it's the only way to make sure that people on the road are covered in the case of an accident, because people will - and have - find any way they can to save a dollar ("Oh, an accident won't happen to-" BOOM..."Oh damn, I don't have insurance...")
The mandate in this case that everyone carry health insurance is the ONLY way to make sure that if someone gets hurt, or cancer etc, they won't be made bankrupt by the bills that unexpectedly arise and can't pay. Having insurance just makes sense. Unfortunately, not everyone has the common sense to get some.
Or, sometimes it's affordability that is the issue. This is also supposed to be addressed by the mandate. Simple supply and demand at work here. The more people buying into the system, the cheaper it becomes to provide services (or in this case insurance).
Jamgrae
Aliyah
09:09 PM on 04/03/2012
So, the health care of a human being is on the same plain as a personal property like autos and homes? Tell me, if you don't have auto or home insurance...can you die? And please connect those examples YOU gave to health insurance coverage that treats the sick and injured and saves millions of lives.
photo
TheKdd
Living the dream... ish.
09:19 PM on 03/27/2012
I am mandated to have auto insurance in my state. How is that different? If this law is killed, couldn't we sue not to have auto insurance?
10:11 PM on 03/27/2012
No one is mandated to have auto insurance unless he want to drive! Don't drive
And you you don't need insurance !
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
cdecisneros
my micro bio is empty because I went to the micro
10:45 PM on 03/27/2012
So you can guarantee that you will not have a need to ever go to a doctor or hospital so you do not need health insurance
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
B Powell
Accurate fact trumps loud emotion, always.
10:52 PM on 03/27/2012
I'll take that logic, and raise you this: You can't use a hospital unless you have insurance to cover costs!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Lulo
Lord Snarkist I of Aragon
08:58 PM on 03/27/2012
The "broccoli" remark is a very subtle but coded message to their GOP masters: "Yes, we got the memo. Relax."