How Green Are Electric Cars? Depends On Where You Plug In

nytimes.com:

IT'S a lot like one of those math problems that gave you fits in sixth grade: a salesman leaves home in Denver and drives his electric car to a meeting in Boulder. At the same time, a physicist driving the same model electric car sets out from her loft in Los Angeles, heading to an appointment near Anaheim.

Read the whole story: nytimes.com

Comments

[Breath on the Wind]

05:51 AM on 05/05/2012

This article and the original study depend upon a direct causal correlation between the miles traveled and the pollution produced. This is accurate for petrochemical transportation and has been repeatedly shown to be inaccurate with electrical usage. Grid Electricity is not a "fuel" that can be stored, (the medium is always changed.) The electrical energy mix of an area is a generalization that can't be attributed to one vehicle only a class and even that attribution has many exceptions.

Our mislabeling the EV as polluting is like looking for a lost item under a lamp post when it was lost in the dark. There are two problems: To shed light and to find the object. Labeling the EV as polluting (inaccurately) will bring us no closer to allowing effective change with power production or operator usage. The EV is a Zero Emissions Vehicle not a polluting power plant with wheels like an ICE.

For a more detailed discussion see: Are Electric Vehicles Green, no matter where you plug in: http://cleantechnica.com/2012/04/20/are-electric-cars-green/

[vetxcl]

01:51 AM on 04/17/2012

Here's a similar article, but recycled by MSN:

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/16/11229935-new-study-shows-just-how-green-electric-cars-are?lite

[Genders]

10:12 PM on 04/16/2012

No it does not depend on where you plug in.

Electric cars don't add any pollution.

rooftop solar is perfect for charging electric commuter cars while people are at work.

That allow solar to supply up to 60% of our total energy needs.

That leaves offshore wind to fill in most of the gaps,

and waste bio char bio fuels for the final backup.

That's a plan.

[Ronald Malaney]

01:13 PM on 04/16/2012

I am working on a gas engine conversion for the leaf, so when the batteries die people can use their car again, for 1/2 the price of the new batteries, or you can buy the leaf get the tax money, sell the battery and buy my conversion. just kidding, needed to rattle some chains for a chuckle.

[Amadahy]

11:01 AM on 04/16/2012

Yes the common argument against electric vehicles is that they use our current mostly dirty ways of producing energy in order to get their electric. It's a valid point for *now*, however we need to look past the now and work towards a more sustainable tomorrow. As more and more alternate energy sources are encouraged and become profitable here in the U.S., the scale will tip ever more in favor of the electric car.

The article notes that the damage done by an electric car is equivalent to a Mazda getting 33mpg. I've heard better and worse comparisons. 33mpg is still better than the 2011 average of fuel consumption of passenger cars of 30.2mpg.(1) As alternate energy sources are increasingly used in producing electricity, electric cars will become much more green than today's gas vehicles. Our goals of energy indepedence and a more sustainable future will be further realized.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_Average_Fuel_Economy

[PhillyMike1]

12:29 PM on 04/16/2012

1) If your utility offers it, you can buy Wind Power.
2) Buying an EV is a great way to Justify Solar Panels on your roof, because offsetting your EV electricity with Solar really pays for itself, making Solar a Very Profitable Investment.

[Amadahy]

01:23 PM on 04/16/2012

Good points PM1.

[vetxcl]

01:54 AM on 04/17/2012

Also there are utility companies now that use solar power.

In any event, faved for adding a practical suggestion.

[brotherkenny4]

09:23 AM on 04/16/2012

A silly story really. The opponents of electric cars keep telling us they're not green, but what is the alternative? The alternative is an oil burner with the oil coming mostly from foreign countries, sending a billion a day to overseas group, some of who hate us. I don't get it. Apparently americans like the supporters of terrorism and the mexicans and the nigerians, all our very good friends.

It was stated in another comment that about 50% of the electricity comes from coal. That's going down every day, because gas is getting more available and cheaper. I think the coal industry would try to tell you that it's the environmentalist that are killing coal, but really it's gas. All those who's best times occured in highschool will buy that too.

[north of 60]

05:42 AM on 04/16/2012

The North American electrical grid is interconnected. About 50% of it's power comes from burning dirty coal. It makes no difference where you plug in an electric car, because unless it's plugged into an isolated solar array, it's still a coal fired vehicle.

[Robert Lee Harrington]

12:53 PM on 04/17/2012

LESS COAL MORE SOLAR.....EVERY DAY!

[old soil guy]

01:06 AM on 04/16/2012

Montana had the 4th cheapest electric rates in the nation, until the early 90's when Goldman Sacks helped Montana Power convince our state legislature to de-regulate, said we'd all get cheaper rates on the "free market". Worked great (about like Enron). Several high electric using businesses went under and now our rates are 4x at least higher. The bill was introduced and passed in the last days of the session and signed by none other than Mark Rascitot, a popular gop governor. Who shortly after left the state. Last I heard he had a big shot lobby job with an insurance company after a stint as head of the RNC. Last time I ever trusted a republican in any elected office. We fortunately still have kind of decent electric rates that a plug in might work out, as Montana is a net energy exporter. But most all the Montana Power employees basically lost their retirement. The CEO of MT Power at the time was run out of Butte, MT Power headquarters.

[old soil guy]

12:55 AM on 04/16/2012

All the parking lots at large businesses where workers park all day long. Would covered car lots with solar panels be able to charge the cars during an 8-9 hour work day? Just wondering. At least charge enough for the drive home? Just wondering.

[Doug Brockman]

08:59 PM on 04/15/2012

around here those would be coal cars.

[aligatorhardt]

06:47 PM on 04/15/2012

An electric car is not responsible for the utility CEO's choices. This same ridiculous smear on electric cars makes no more sense regardless how many times it is repeated. The New York Times must be a division of BP these days with all the propaganda against anything that competes with oil, coal, and nuclear industries.
  The electric car is emission free. Coal power plants are very dirty and should be replaced with cleaner, renewable energy. Colorado has achieved 30% renewable electric generation, and 5 US states get 20% or more of their electricity from wind. Yet even though Colorado is now a leader in renewable energy, this report blames them for high coal use. It is common for those who disparage renewable energy to pull numbers from out of the past, when economic comparisons were different than today. We need to clean up the power supply, but that is a separate issue form cleaning up the transportation sector. An electric car removes all the pollution from gasoline equivalent vehicles, so that is all good. An electric car in many garages can help with energy storage when coupled with smart meters, making renewable energy more consistent. That is two advantages for the price of one.

[Kenz300]

12:02 PM on 04/15/2012

More wind, solar and geothermal power is being added to the grid every year.

Around the world wind and solar are growing in use. The price of wind and solar have dropped by over 50% in the last 5 years making it very competitive in todays market. The price of oil, coal and nuclear just keep rising.

[Genders]

12:57 AM on 04/15/2012

Nonsense. Electric cars are totally green. THEY add no pollution.

don't blame coal on electric cars.

[north of 60]

05:43 AM on 04/16/2012

yeah right, keep smoking that fairy dust...

[Genders]

07:46 PM on 04/16/2012

You seem to be the one who wants to suck radioactive fossil and nukes fairy dust.

[Overtone]

10:28 PM on 04/14/2012

Plugging in electric cars may not be necessary as revolutionary new technology is incorporated into vehicles.

One example is the hydroelectric fuel cell invented in Vietnam. You add only water: fresh or salt.
A 2,000 watt home generator is expected to sell for $1,600.

See Moving Beyond Oil and Cheap Green at www.aesopinstitute.org for a few details.

Electric cars and trucks can become mobile power plants in the future. Sometimes selling electricity to the local utility, and perhaps paying their way.

[Jeff Uhh]

02:40 AM on 04/15/2012

A website I frequent called unitednuclear.com also has a hydrogen fuel cell project going. They apparently have some prototypes out that are add ons to your current late model internal combustion engine. Thatd be cool.

[Overtone]

11:07 AM on 04/15/2012

A water fueled fuel cell needs no Hydrogen added. This is very different and much more practical.

Only water needs to be supplied.

[dwhuston]

10:53 AM on 04/15/2012

That is a scam.,

[Overtone]

11:12 AM on 04/15/2012

The Wright Brothers were considered scammers by Scientific American, The NY Times, and the Smithsonian - for five years after the flight at Kitty Hawk in 1903.

That was when then President Teddy Roosevelt sent someone to visit those bicycle mechanics. When he returned they decided powered flight was real.

The entire history of Black Swans - highly improbable innovations with huge impact - has been marked by similar disbelief.

[vetxcl]

10:27 PM on 04/14/2012

Also it depends on how much sustainable energy will be produced in the future. Fortunately, the US is working on adding to that amount.