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Steve Jobs In Unheard Interview: 'My Model Of Management Is The Beatles'

The Huffington Post  |  By Posted: 04/18/2012 3:55 pm Updated: 04/18/2012 5:17 pm

Steve Jobs

Before the iPad, the iPhone and the iPod, before the famously simplistic uniform of blue jeans and a fitted black turtleneck, there was simply Steve Jobs: a 30-year-old man who had co-founded Apple Inc., only to be gracelessly dropped from its ranks for just over a decade.

In 1985, Jobs was ousted from Apple by then-CEO John Sculley, a man who, just two years before, Jobs himself brought into the Apple fold. Though angered and deeply wounded, Jobs was far from defeated by the event.

As Brent Schlender posits in a Fast Company feature called "The Lost Steve Jobs Tapes," the years following his firing from Apple may have actually been the "most pivotal" ones of Jobs's life. As evidence to support his theory, Schlender presents information he collected from extended interviews with Jobs recorded on around three dozen tapes and conducted over the course of 25 years.

Among the unique insights into Jobs' business savvy, Schlender's interviews with Jobs illustrate just how much Jobs' years outside Apple -- particularly those spent at hardware/software development company NeXT, which Jobs founded in 1985, and at animation studio Pixar, which Jobs acquired in 1986 -- reshaped his management style and primed him for the success he would enjoy after returning to Apple in 1996.

For example, in October 2004, Jobs offered Schlender a fascinating glimpse at the dynamic that existed among Pixar's top brass. Said Jobs,

My model of management is the Beatles. The reason I say that is because each of the key people in the Beatles kept the others from going off in the directions of their bad tendencies.[...]They sort of kept each other in check. And then when they split up, they never did anything as good. It was the chemistry of a small group of people, and that chemistry was greater than the sum of the parts. And so John kept Paul from being a teenybopper and Paul kept John from drifting out into the cosmos, and it was magic. And George, in the end, I think provided a tremendous amount of soul to the group. I don't know what Ringo did.[...]That's the chemistry [at Pixar] between Ed [Catmull] and John [Lasseter] and myself.

While it seems Jobs never really grew out of the controlling behaviors for which he was well known, traces of this same kind of collaborative attitude can be seen in his work on the game-changing iPod. As Walter Isaacson wrote of the device's creation in his popular biography "Steve Jobs":

Every night Jobs would be on the phone with ideas. Fadell and the others would call each other up, discuss Jobs's latest suggestion and conspire on how to nudge him to where they wanted him to go, which worked about half the time. "We would have this swirling thing of Steve's latest idea, and we would all try to stay ahead of it," said Fadell. "Every day there was something like that....With his style, you needed to work with your peers, watch each other's back."

Furthermore, it seems Jobs also learned the value and importance of pacing at Pixar. As a perfectionist, Jobs often spent more time and effort than others might have on the very smallest details. Walter Isaacson recently told BBC's Charlie Stayt and Naga Munchetty in an interview:

When he would stare at you and be rough, it would be because he would say, 'I want the boot-up time of the Macintosh to be 10 seconds shorter,' or 'I want the screw inside -- those screws -- to actually be more beautiful.' And people say, 'Well, Steve, you cannot see the screws inside the Macintosh.' He said, 'Yes, but you will know. We have to be artists.'

However, his pursuit of perfection, attention to detail and willingness to spend time and effort on projects are what transformed Apple into what it is today. Under Jobs's intense yet intelligent leadership, which lasted from his return in 1996 until his death last October, the company released more streamlined, innovative products -- such as the iPhone in 2007 and the iPad in 2010 -- which helped to bring Apple back to life. As he told Schlender back in June 1995, before he returned to Apple:

Pixar has been a marathon, not a sprint. There are times when you run a marathon and you wonder, Why am I doing this? But you take a drink of water, and around the next bend, you get your wind back, remember the finish line, and keep going.[...]Fortunately, my training has been in doing things that take a long time....With what I've chosen to do with my life, you know, even a small thing takes a few years. To do anything of magnitude takes at least five years, more likely seven or eight. Rightfully or wrongfully, that's how I think.

Jobs would soon find out why he ran the marathon that was Pixar and how his efforts would eventually pay off. Looking back, Jobs himself realized the opportunities his "failure" at Apple had afforded him -- and he made sure to share what he learned. Jobs told Stanford University's class of 2005 at a Commencement address on June 12, 2005:

I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.

Read more about what Schlender discovered in his long-lost Steve Jobs tapes, and check out some great highlights here.

What do you think about what Jobs has had to say about his work and life? Share your thoughts in the comments!

Also on HuffPost:

Check out the slideshow (below) for the most memorable quotes ever uttered by Steve Jobs.
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"We've never worried about numbers. In the market place, Apple is trying to focus the spotlight on products, because products really make a difference. [...] Ad campaigns are necessary for competition; IBM's ads are everywhere. But good PR educates people; that's all it is. You can't con people in this business. The products speak for themselves."
-- Playboy interview, 1985
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Before the iPad, the iPhone and the iPod, before the famously simplistic uniform of blue jeans and a fitted black turtleneck, there was simply Steve Jobs: a 30-year-old man who had co-founded Apple In...
Before the iPad, the iPhone and the iPod, before the famously simplistic uniform of blue jeans and a fitted black turtleneck, there was simply Steve Jobs: a 30-year-old man who had co-founded Apple In...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
dbrett480
02:09 PM on 05/12/2012
Jobs makes a great point. I just wonder who was the Yoko Ono in this analogy?
05:24 AM on 04/20/2012
My bandmates and I owe a lot to Steve. He provided the tools that helped us create magic. Our one regret is that he didn't live long enough to see this music video which was started before his passing. Mac heads in particular should get a big kick out of this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU4L70m43So
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Max Load
Politicians: What you see is never what you get.
01:49 PM on 04/19/2012
Serendipity apparently played as large a part in the legend of Steve Jobs, as did brilliance.

I'd love to actually hear the interviews, that would be priceless.
01:06 AM on 04/19/2012
Very interesting and driven man.

A man with purpose and goals in life.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Onutz
05:21 AM on 04/19/2012
True.
(('I want the screw inside -- those screws -- to actually be more beautiful.' And people say, 'Well, Steve, you cannot see the screws inside the Macintosh.' He said, 'Yes, but you will know. We have to be artists.'))

No matter how many "Facts" are researched, this is something the cult of iHaters will never understand.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ResearchtheFacts
Alert, awake & paying attention to the details.
11:49 PM on 04/18/2012
Buy an Apple product "feed a banker" could I get some more caviar please? Also, bring some champagne Apple's coming out with the mini ipad and iphone "whatever number" 5, 6? I forget except for the numbers I'm making off the stock.

What are you guys doing here? Shouldn't you be online buying some more Apple products? The one percent need another elevator for their cars the highest percentage of Apple stock owners. lol
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
garumphul
leave me alone, I don't want you as a friend
04:19 PM on 04/18/2012
Hi model of management was to be a closet homosexual and die from an accidental drug overdoes? How very odd.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
M Rosin
06:01 PM on 04/18/2012
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to comment but: None of the Beatles died from a drug overdose. And their sex lives were their own business.
08:32 PM on 04/18/2012
Brian Epstein.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
garumphul
leave me alone, I don't want you as a friend
08:26 AM on 04/19/2012
Do you occasionally slip on your own dribble?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rex Devious
If you don't vote, don't bitch
08:41 PM on 04/18/2012
Oh yes, I'm sure *those* were the things he emulated.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jsgaetano
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus
04:01 PM on 04/18/2012
Wow, no wonder Jobs was viewed as a horrible boss. The Beatles broke up because they wanted to kill each other (and they were Buddhists!).
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mojo filter
Hikeeba.
05:05 PM on 04/18/2012
And bad business management is one of the things that broke them up.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jsgaetano
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus
10:19 PM on 04/18/2012
And that's probably what will happen to Apple now that Dear Leader is no longer cracking the whip.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
M Rosin
06:05 PM on 04/18/2012
Again, it's probably pointless to respond as your comment seems trollish but I'm bored so: Even at the end, when the Beatles weren't getting along, they still managed to create incredible music. That was Jobs' point: the chemistry of the WORK they created. That money squabbles drove them apart and that personal issues intervened doesn't change the fact that the work they created overcame all that garbage. ...

And none of the Beatles were Buddhists. George Harrison was interested in Hinduism. Sheesh.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jsgaetano
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus
10:19 PM on 04/18/2012
All the Beatles are Buddhists. Not only is there nothing preventing a Buddhist from participating in any other religion, but Buddhism was created by a practicioner of Hinduism.

You might want to figure out what all these big words mean before you start throwing them around when the adults are talking about adult things.