Greek Tragedy

New York Times:

AS I follow the modern Greek tragedy unfolding in Europe, I flash back to the 18 years I spent in Athens, walking to school in Plaka (the old part of the city), on the same streets that have recently been filled with protesters and violent clashes.

Read the whole story at New York Times

Comments

[urbisoler]

06:02 PM on 06/23/2012

Seems to me that collaboration - via the European Union - is what precipitated Greece's problems to begin with. Greece should never have become part of the Union because you cannot administer a massive complex such as this. I will agree that it is entirely natural for individuals, states, nations to grow, expand and cooperate but I also believe that it is that very bigness that will eventually fall of its own weight. It is in the nature of things that this is so. Greece should never have allowed itself to be dependent on others for their well being. Bailing out institutions, states, nations will come back to haunt us because they will not have learned to survive on their own. Arianna Huffington thinks Greece should withdraw from the EU. I agree. It will be extremely painful but Greece must learn to rely on itself again. If not, then disaster will befall the nation/states like dominoes. The same conditions might be applied to the United Nations which is falling into the hands of people who are not capable of administering a massive complex such as this. It is the pinnacle of human arrogance to think they are capable such massive undertakings. Again, however, I think it natural that they try. I also think it will end in war - also quite natural. The Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse will prevail in the long run. Ciao!

[hamsteronwheel]

12:42 PM on 05/14/2012

we're all hamsters on neocon "financially engineered" and "financially innovated" wheels

this Greek tragedy is another "financially engineered" pot of gold for goldman sachs, the neocons, and the top 1%

they sing and dance while Greece burns

2/15/2010

Senior Goldman Adviser Criticizes Greece – Without Disclosing His Goldman Affiliation

http://baselinescenario.com/2010/02/15/senior-goldman-adviser-criticizes-greece-without-disclosing-his-goldman-affiliation/#more-6416EU

meanwhile as we US taxpayers are forced to fund wars, by politicians grovelling for neocon financial table scraps, to secure israel's middle east domination thereby decimating our economic future and our children's futures...

israel is minting more millionaires than any country in the world!

"While much of the world struggles with recession, Israel's economy is going strong and is minting new millionaires at a faster rate than just about any other country. The number of Israeli millionaires nearly doubled to 10,153 from 2008 to 2010, according to the Merrill Lynch-Capgemini World Wealth Report.

...One tycoon is building a 60,000-square-foot estate in the ancient city of Caesarea, along the coast between Tel Aviv and Haifa. Plans are underway for a special terminal at Ben-Gurion airport to handle the bustling traffic in private planes and helicopters. The national motor vehicle department said recently that it had to draft new regulations to allow for the import of Rolls-Royces, Lamborghinis and Aston Martins."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-israel-rich-20111210,0,2643448,full.story

[Hopelessly Liberal]

08:45 AM on 05/14/2012

What is conveniently forgotten in a discussion about Greece’s financial crisis is that Greeks refuse to pay their taxes. It is some kind of game with them on how creative they can be to cheat the government and the children, of which Arianna so fondly speaks, of their fair share of taxes and a future. A country cannot exist without revenue and when the general feeling is that one can cheat the government and still be prosperous, one lives in a fool’s house.

[KIampfbeobachter]

12:42 PM on 05/14/2012

You hit the nail right on the head.

[Abo]

08:36 AM on 05/14/2012

Looks like the German people are rejecting austerity:

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/05/13-1

[eumenides]

08:29 AM on 05/14/2012

Greece should marry and divorce a wealthy bisexual nation.

[treasuredtrophie]

08:20 AM on 05/14/2012

Is the left reading these stories. This is what OB is doing to us. Entitlements free free free. Nothing is FREE. Germany if your smart you pull out and say screw Europe.

[KIampfbeobachter]

12:34 PM on 05/14/2012

Germany is to smart for that. The Germans know that they need the EU with or without a common currency as their main export market. The present crisis is just a remake of one of the currency exchange rate rearrangements of the past.

[YeOldeSnark]

08:01 AM on 05/14/2012

Anti German sentiment in Greece is on a level not seen since the days of Nazi occupation, and decades of resentment and loathing are bubbling quickly to the surface. Rightly so. The very forces (Germany isn't alone) which are in the back pockets of greedy financial oligarchs piously wringing their hands preaching austerity and self-sacrifice to the Greeks is the height of hypocrisy. It is so pathetic, Chancellor Merkel comes across about as believable as Colonel Klink preaching virtue to the Stalag 13 inmates in "Hogan's Heroes".

[draven646]

08:21 AM on 05/14/2012

So the Greeks have done nothing wrong?

Please print out a few billions Euro's from thin air and send them to them

The level of stupid is at an all new high here.

[Abo]

07:11 AM on 05/14/2012

"...the indomitable Greek spirit."

As an Italian-American who spent most trips overseas in Italy, have to say the Greeks out-Italian the Italians. The sole trip I took to Greece was the most fascinating--- and more fun than all the time I ever spent in Italy and I never even got to the Islands.

Mia fatsa, mia ratsa

[draven646]

06:19 AM on 05/14/2012

All the people who reason that the demand for Greek Austerity is unfair - please feel free to lend to Greece...they want to return 45 cents on every Dollar borrowed.

Please feel free to donate to their cause.

[foubabou]

06:34 AM on 05/14/2012

But remember when you start donating you must donate forever. They'll promise to pay back 45 cents but after they spend the money they will refuse and ask for more.

Greece is like the Africa nation of Europe.

[YeOldeSnark]

08:02 AM on 05/14/2012

Save your confederate drachmas for the Hellenes will rise again!!!

[draven646]

06:16 AM on 05/14/2012

Here's a brief nugget on Greece that just about sum's up what's wrong with them and why they deserve to be kicked out of the Euro.

State Owned Greek Railway's was paying Euro 400 Million in SALARIES alone on TOTAL revenues of Euro 100 Million.

In 2009 itself the Railways total debt increased to $13 billion, or about 5 percent of Greece’s gross domestic product.

This is just the railways people - Greece was the world capital of the 'Free Handout' - now they want more....yeah...and unicorns exist too.

The facts from the NYT:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/business/global/21rail.html

[mountainweb]

08:39 AM on 05/14/2012

The statement about the State Owned Greek Railway's massive debt is true and the tip of the iceberg of socialist insanity in Greece. When you have drivers being paid as much as $130,000 a year frequently run empty trains, clearly you are pouring money into a bottomless pit. Only true idiots think that you can deficit spend forever, California comes to mind since they are in the same boat. Germany is taking the correct stand, time to stop the train before it takes all of Europe down...

[foubabou]

05:31 AM on 05/14/2012

I agree Greece should leave the Eurozone and the EU. May or may not be best for Greece but is probably best for the EU.

Sadly, as Greece nears the moment of truth Greece and only Greece is responsible for where they are today. Greece lied about their economic situation the gain entry into the EU.

They lied again about reforms they would take to get the first bailout money as the reforms never materialized.

Now, after making a deal and gaining the last bailout payment Greece is threatening to scrap the deal. Sooner or later Greece is going to have to face the reality they are broke and living on borrowed money and time.

Greece is facing hard times regardless of their decision to remain i n the EU or not. The difference will be life after reorganizing the country. To continue funding their govt programs will require influxes of cash. After default that cash will be hard to find and expensive to service as debt. It will be quite some time before their currency is worth anything on the world stage.

Almost looks like Greece is coming to the end of a country sized Ponzi scheme.

[Ri-Poste]

05:58 AM on 05/14/2012

do you know that most of European Banks have speculate on the Greek Public Debts , making Millions , and now they are asking to the Greek People to pay back !!
this is a joke !!!

[foubabou]

06:12 AM on 05/14/2012

What I know is that Greece is in a bad situation. And one way or another they are going to pay. Fingerpointing aside there is only the reality that Greece must run through the fire to get to the otherside.

Hopefully the Greek people will keep their debt load manageable the next time around.

[draven646]

07:43 AM on 05/14/2012

They should be kicked out of the Euro.

They figure they can continue handing out money, lying and cheating on agreements and the German's will continue the dole.

Let them go back to the drachma that will then devalue to a million drachma's for a loaf of bread...that should teach them a lesson.

[foubabou]

08:34 AM on 05/14/2012

Absolutely. Let them get on their own and show the world how easy it is for Greece to turn things around without the Euro or EU support.

Or how hard it was.........

[mamacat]

04:17 AM on 05/14/2012

With my admittedly little understanding of the situation, it does, nevertheless, seem that getting out of the European Union would be best for the Greek people.

[ltyr2002]

02:50 AM on 05/14/2012

Did she say "pensions" or "debt"? Those are the challenges that face the Greeks, the rest of Europe and America as well!

"Austerity" is the word for REALITY! And we all have been living high on the wave of financiers' bubbles and slave laborers backs!

Globalism as an economic system has failed! We all need to back up an try a new, more moderate approach to the next frontier in human progress.

[hegelian]

03:40 AM on 05/14/2012

what is reality?

[draven646]

08:03 AM on 05/14/2012

It is all an Illusion as per the Hindu 'Maya' concept or the Buddhist 'Samsara' concept...the World is an illusion.

[HansB]

04:47 AM on 05/14/2012

Austerity is not the word for reality any more than an umbrella is the word for rain. It is a proposed solution to an objective reality, and not necessarily the right one. When austerity turns into deflation, which is the case in Greece, it is obviously - mathematically - the wrong solution since the debt/GDP ratio, instead of being lowered, is automatically increased. Imagine if, to repay your personal debts, your employer halves your income. The result is that you have even more trouble repaying your debts, and your debt/income ratio is doubled. Same thing in Greece, or anywhere else where deflation exists.

Germany and the other countries (and the ECB) who insist on Greek austerity do not have the best interests of the country at heart.

[HansB]

02:42 AM on 05/14/2012

Austerity economics isn't a theory but a religion. Theories are tested, when they fail, they are abandoned. The people who run the ECB, the politicians who are on Merkel's line, they abandon nothing when they are proved wrong. The celestial system in their eyes remains intact, it is humans who sin and skew the results. Their deity is the market, but when the market doesn't react as it should - e.g., when the market lends money to France at lower rates following Hollande's election - then it's the traders who sin. The all-knowing and all-wise market SHOULD have punished France.

You can't argue with these people, any more than Galileo could convince the pope that the earth was round. They aren't technocrats, otherwise they would have passed their Economics 101. They are priests. They cannot be convinced of their wrong, they can only be thrown out. And that's what we Europeans are doing in every single election - even in Germany.

[piul05]

10:33 AM on 05/14/2012

Excellent post.

[Citizen Cain]

02:21 AM on 05/14/2012

- Isn't it amazing how the Greece world is on total vreefall, and yet she persists on the belief in Unicorns and golden fields of free lunches. Her homeland, Greece, one of the most socialistic countries in the world, is on the verge of financial collapse, and yet she focuses on demonizing evil bamkers, and ignores the consumit failures of their basic form of government.

I guess once you drink the koolaide, there's no going back. I remember when she was a conservative, before she was an independent, before she was a libraterian, before she was a democrat. If you think her actions and motives are based on anything but money, you're just not paying attention.

Like the old Groucho joke. "I have my principles.....If you don't like them then I have others."

[mamacat]

04:19 AM on 05/14/2012

Greece is no more socialist than many of the most successful economies of the world. Try again.