On Friday's "Real Time with Bill Maher," the show saw a spirited discussion of the state of the gun debate in the U.S., and the prognosis was not optimistic.
Maher led the pessimism, declaring that even after tragedies such as those in Aurora, Newtown and most recently in Washington, D.C., leaders across the political spectrum are too enthusiastic about firearms to make any real changes.
"We're not going to do anything, because both parties love guns," Maher declared, pointed out that even Vice President Joe Biden encouraged Americans to buy shotguns for self defense.
Conservative commentator David Frum did not disagree that the problem is not getting any better. "The reason most people buy guns is... to make their families safe," he said. "Most people who buy guns never kill anybody. The tragedy is, these things turn out to be wrong." He cited statistics that draw a grim picture of the likelihood that a gun will be used on the member of a household rather than an intruder.
"We don't need laws" about guns, he concluded. "Just don't have [a gun]."
MSNBC host Chris Hayes chimed in, claiming although less households are purchasing guns, gun sales are up. The only conclusion is that a smaller segment of the population is buying more guns.
Ultimately, Maher and Frum agreed that progress will not be made by ostracizing gun owners, but rather through cultural progress and education about the true facts of gun ownership. Check out the full clip above.