they say he has a chance of winning IN too...wooo hoooooooooooo
And it seems like it goes on like this forever.
You must forgive me.
If I'm up and gone to Carolina in my mind.
-James Taylor, Carolina on my Mind
Let's agree: Carolina decides: It's over or it has only just begun. It's already starting to get silly. Hillary's gone from Wall Street's favorite candidate to beer swigging working class champion on the late shift, from stern policy wonk to shameless serial panderer. Obama's been transformed from the son of a single mother, community organizer who can bring us together to a black nationalist, brie and arugula elitist who hates America. It can only get worse if it goes on.
We need a simple agreement. If Hillary sweeps tonight, she's not simply earned the right to go on; it's a brand new race. And if she wins out the remainder of the primaries, superdelegates would have every reason to see her has the best candidate and award her the nomination.
But if she loses North Carolina tonight, it's over. Done. And any super delegate who is sentient and truly not committed should bring this thing to an end, by endorsing Obama as quickly as possible. If Obama wins North Carolina, he'll not only have an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates and popular vote, he'll have staunched the bleeding suffered from the Wright wounds.
To date, the primaries have elevated Obama, exposed him and bloodied him. He'll bear the scars into the general. They've made Hillary a better, if less credible, candidate. She'll carry even higher negatives into the general. But the travails both have gone through have been merely a tea party compared to the scorched earth assaults Republicans are ready to launch. It's simply wrong to argue that Hillary is giving Republicans their attack lines. Republicans don't need lessons from anyone in slash and burn politics.
But even while dismissing the hand wringers decrying how divisive the primaries have been, we should still be clear. The free ride given McCain must end. It is time to put the spotlight on the truly destructive agenda that he is championing -- continuing the war, doubling the Bush top end tax cuts, unraveling employer based health care, starving investments vital to our future, from education and training to broadband and transit, and pursuing the unsustainable trade policies that ship jobs abroad, drive down wages at home, and force us to sell off assets or borrow $2 billion a day
So if Obama wins North Carolina, it's over. The superdelegates couldn't take the nomination from Obama without severely damaging the party. And it will serve no one -- neither Hillary nor Obama -- to continue a race in which she has no choice but to burlesque his positions to contrast them with her own in route to inevitable defeat. The Clinton campaign will want to fight on, no doubt. But it will be time for Dean, Reid, and Pelosi to shepherd the uncommitted superdelegates into getting off the fence in large numbers to bring this thing to a close.
So Carolina should decide: either game over or a brand new ballgame.
In my mind, I'm gone to Carolina.
Can't ya see the sunshine?
Can't ya just feel the moonshine?
Ain't it just like a friend of mine?
It hit me from behind
And I'm gone to Carolina in my mind.
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they say he has a chance of winning IN too...wooo hoooooooooooo
It's over. Barack won NC!!!! they say big time
Yea! Barack has won in NC!!! According to the statistics, I'm one of the few older, white, women who voted for him. But there apparently were more than a few. Looking forward to November...
How would Hillary ever win an election when she can't win now without the Republican vote ? The votes that Obama got were his own, not help from the Repugs. Hillary is the looser all the way around.
Time for Hillary to go. She makes more enemies everytime there is an election.
The one major advantage of not having a presumptive democratic nominee and the GOP having one is that the DNC can hit McCain hard, and repeatedly. Get on it, Dean! No time like the present.
It's not over until the fat lady sings. That will be after the count of the general elections when Senator Obama will have beaten Senator McCain and everyone will have forgotten Senator Clinton.
"It's not over until the fat lady sings."
It happened back on the ninth of last month. See under, "Elton, J."
From these posts there is something incoherent. If Senator Obama is perceived to lie, he is supposed to be deficient in character. If Hillary lies, it is expected. Senator Obama was most graceful during the ABC debate when he defended Senator Clinton when she was attacked about her Bosnia lies. He said that both of them campaigned hard and that sometimes they mispoke. I could not believe his grace when I heard him defending her. And during this campaign he never brought it up. Did she thank him for that? Instead she went on bludgeoning him to death for every mispoken sentences.
I hate to say this but sometimes when women fight, we could fight so dirty, worse then men... with plenty of manipulative innuendos. Senator Obama deserves a fairer fighter.
nostalgia . . . So aptly put. Sen. Obama displays tremendous grace. For the first credible female candidate for President, it is disappointing to see how Sen. Clinton conducts herself. It's tiring.
I am looking for a candidate that has the intelligence, grace and discernment to make the best choice for all Americans.
It's not women in general. It's Senator Clinton in particular.
You are being realistic, dear sir, but Clinton is not playing with a full deck: she's a crazed, megalomaniacal individual on a tear to destroy anything in her path. Only kicking her out of the Democratic party (could that be done?) or finding her stone-drunk in some sewer might end this thing in a sane and reasonable manner.
If the democrats had winner take all primaries, Clinton would be leading in delegates. If she wins in Indiana, we're going to start hearing more from Florida and Michigan. Why should those voters be denied their rights because of Howard Dean? If Florida and Michigan have a voice in this election Obama is done. Over. All North Carolina proves is that Obama has the black vote. That's not enough. it was never enough. And it never will be enough.
And if Clinton had won more primaries and caucus states, she'd also be leading in delegates. But she didn't. Why do we have to keep hearing about what would be true if we lived in an alternate (Clintonian) universe? What relevance does it have?
As for MI and FL, Howard Dean didn't make the decision. The whole DNC did. And get this through your head -- ALL OF CLINTON'S SUPPORTERS ON THE DNC VOTED TO DEPRIVE MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA OF THEIR DELEGATES. Okay? So stop blaming Dean and Obama. Clinton was fine with MI and FL having no delegates until she started LOSING. I understand the Clintonistas desperately want to change the rules in the middle of the game, but remember, she agreed to them to begin with.
You guys really should experiment with telling the truth for a change. It's really much, much simpler.
From the start you lost me....NC does not decide it all....you are wrong, sorry. It just sounds like fear when Obama supporters try to make Hillary quit...to me it sounds like "stop her before he loses" blah, blah blah....try again. You have no right to stop the elections before they are finished. You are not a democrat and say that, no matter who you support, it is sickening to hear a democrat say all the votes should not be counted, leave the party now, you are NO DEMOCRAT, SIR. I will no longer consider anything you say ever, ever again, you are not a democrat and try to silence voices....that is a republican tactic, resign now.
I'm rubber and you're glue, everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you! Nah, nah, nah, nah nah.
That is exactly how you sound Ginny. Grow up, do some real research about the candidates (not the biased stuff from Hillary's website) and make a real decision. The founding fathers did not fight for people like you to act like 2nd graders when it comes time to do their civic duty and vote.
ginny, calm down. No matter what, the primaries will continue. Whether the nominee is already decided or not, the voting goes on. For example, McCain has won the nomination but the republican primaries continue. This is the first time in a very long time that the decision wasn't made by now. To ask the losing candidate to concede when there is no logical way for her to win is not the same as trying to stop the elections.
Actually, I just got this from ABC.com:
"Today, Clinton stressed the importance of the North Carolina contest.
"This primary election on Tuesday is a game changer. This is going to make a huge difference in what happens going forward. The entire country " probably even a lot of the world is looking to see what North Carolina decides."
Sounds to me like Hillary's the one who set the rules about how important NC is.
Then again, she's been "changing goalposts" pretty constantly.
I am a Obama supporter and I think that if Hillary wishes to continue on, its perfectly alright. What I do have a problem with, is the "scorched earth" tactics that her campaign is using. If she falls short of the nomination, she would have given the retards.....I mean, repubs, any additional bullets to possibly take Obama out.....as Democrats, we should be behind whoever is our nominee is.....right ? But I hear, white democrats saying they will not vote for Obama if he wins the nomination.....if anyone feels that way, you are no Democrat at all. Our party should be cake walking all the way to the Whitehouse this fall....instead, it appears that we will be fractured and let McCain carry out a third Bush term.....wake up people.
If there is no plausible way for her to win more delegates or the popular vote, and there is ample evidence her continuing (or even winning the nomination at this point) will shatter the party beyond repair and only bolster McCain's bid for the White house, I would argue that Hillary's refusal to drop out after Obama wins NC demonstrates that HILLARY is NO DEMOCRAT, MA'AM.
Anyone who says they are voting for McCain if Obama wins is not a democrat either. And I see far, far more Clinton supports on Huffpost saying that they're doing to that than Obama supporters the other way 'round.
I'm A-OK with Hillary continuing to run as long as she stops being such a politician about it. Stop with the kitchen sink and focus on the issues. Stop making it a fight about race and make it a fight about policy. Stop pandering for votes and start thinking of REAL solutions, not fake ones that even her own economic adviser thinks sucks.
If she is unwilling to act like an adult for the remainder of the primary, then she needs to quit and let the adults fight McCain.
See, here is the difference: Senator Obama can win according to the rules. Senator Clinton can't. So if she somehow managed to get nominated, supporters of Senator Obama have something to be upset about. OTOH, if Senator Clinton loses, her supporters simply have to concede that the better politician won because he will have taken the high road all the time.
Your blog and your attitude are why this election cycle is so screwed up. Oh for an honest pundit.
Or if she loses California, or New York - oh wait, she won those, didn't she?
Obama will carry both New York and California in the general.....
CAPTAINSKIPPY,
You can bet your skipper joints that Hillary would not win New York now nor California. Oh by the way Indiana is a red state like Hillbots always says, they will vote republican in the GE...
Why do you think Clinton would not win New York now? In fact, Obama is unlikely to carry New York in the general election.
She will probably make sure of that.
You just just lost your credibility with your second statement. You think NY is going Republican? You are kidding, right?
Obama had an insurmountable lead months ago. She is given chance after chance after chance. And, why? Look at the cost to the America people. Not unlike the cost to us when when the country was riveted to Whitewater and the blue dress. This could not be more leaderless and embarrasing.
As to the white working class who have rallied around Hillary. Ask yourself are they the same white working class who will be voting in November or will they actually vote for their true party, the Republicans. I guarantee you iit will be the same youth and same blacks plus all the white who have left her becuase of her unethical conduct in thsi election will be voting for Obama in November.
I'm for Obama but that said, I wish you would look again at who is supporting him. His great attraction is an ability to cross traditional lines. During the primary, there are some groups who prefer Hillary, same with Obama, but that is Dem v Dem. I think he can bring over the same working class that are now voting for Hillary because they know McCain won't help them.
"She is given chance after chance after chance. And, why? Look at the cost to the America people."
What's the cost? She is playing by the rules -- which the Obamaholes would like to discard. As we say in New York, it ain't over 'til it's over.
If she was playing "by the rules" she wouldn't be trying to seat MI and FL. The "rules" say that they screwed their chance to seat delegates.
So which rules would she be playing by, exactly?
The vote in Florida was moved by the GOP conrolled state legislature and GOP governor, not the state Democratic Party. So, by your logic, the Democratic voters of the state should be punished for the actions of the GOP. I guess that is being a uniter.
But Hillary & her gang didn't have a problem with that when they agreed to the DNC rules...
Lanny Davis and Terry McAuliffe agreed wholeheartedly with the rules when Hillary was the queen waiting to be crowned. After she dumped $25 million on a big loss in Iowa and her campaign had no plan past Super Tuesday, all of a sudden the DNC was "punishing" MI and FL. Maybe she should have looked into this more instead of making a Sopranos finale knock-off and worrying about her campaign song.
ALL working class whites are really republicans...you are nuts. I am a white, working class democrat, have voted dem for over 30 yrs....so, maybe you should ask a white, working class person about it, since you obviously are not one yourself, don't know any and have no clue....
Ridiculous.
Senator Obama himself said INDIANA is the tie-breaker.
Did you miss that?
North Carolina has more electoral votes than Indiana, if I recall correctly.
GLaB
When did you start listening to Obama?
He is not in charge of the world, or did you miss the memo.....Hillary can stay in as long as she likes, it isn't all about what you want, believe it or not.
Posted May 6, 2008 | 11:29 AM (EST)