Twenty-seven electoral votes -- fourth largest election prize in the nation -- "and don't you forget it."
That's the stock answer Floridians are giving the Democratic National Committee (DNC) as State party leaders move ahead in the final delegate selection process this week and await word on the group's status for the Denver convention in August. Most observers now believe Florida will end up getting only one-half vote per delegate.
Nonetheless, State party leaders will meet at the Airport Hilton in Tampa Saturday (May 17) to select the remaining 40 at-large delegates of its original 211 total and then send the results to Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton for their review. The Tampa meeting may not be a quiet one -- with rumors floating that there will be a motion introduced to force the State's DNC representatives to vote for Sen. Clinton because she won the State's January 29 primary. In light of the "new reality" of Obama's all-but-certain nomination, however, some delegate-hopefuls are eager that Obama select Clinton as his running-mate to bring the party together.
Such rumors are running rampant in political circles, including one that says if Obama decides to wait until the final primaries before accepting Florida or if the DNC doesn't quickly act to solve the situation, this important swing state with its sizable electoral vote could back the Republican candidate-apparent Sen. John McCain, "despite the unpopular war and sinking economy."
Mindful of such rumors, Obama surrogates -- led by Florida Congressman Robert Wexler -- are already speaking to South Florida condominium communities, urging them to stick with"their Democratic party."
Just about everyone who keeps up with politics knows Florida and Michigan are being penalized by the DNC for holding early primaries, but the real drama is unfolding in Washington D.C. and will come full circle in Tampa this weekend as the last of the delegates are chosen. Floridians keep reminding everyone that -- even if its primary was seven days early -- all Democratic candidates were on the ballot, which Sen. Clinton won by some 17 percent.
Everyone -- from party officials in Florida's capital to the District of Columbia Capitol -- agree that Florida will have its delegates confirmed, but just how many and when -- even such a minute point as to which Denver hotel has been reserved for the Sunshine State entourage -- has been left unanswered.
Now, the DNC is saying it will make a decision regarding Florida (and Michigan presumably) on May 31 when its Credentials Committee meets.
That may be too late, some insiders say, especially those who are supporting Sen. Clinton who view the current state of the DNC's delegate approval process as an effort to make Florida "meaningless."
'We won't be meaningless in the Fall when our electoral votes and our money are needed," said Ron Mills, a Democratic activist from Fort Lauderdale, one of a growing number who will trek to Tampa for the at-large selection meeting of the State Committee on May 17. He noted that Obama has scheduled a fundraiser in Florida next week.
Meanwhile, long time Dem-leader and superdelegate Jon Ausman of Tallahassee -- a
one-time Dennis Kucinich supporter -- says he will take his appeal to the DNC on May
31-- still time, he says, to keep Florida in play for the general election. His proposal, he
explained could eventually give the State its full 211 delegates. His proposal takes three
steps, including one to initially give Florida l/2 vote per delegate.
"At this stage I am looking for the 23 Charter Delegates (the official name for superdelegates) and 94 of 188 pledged/unpledged add-on delegates for a delegation of 117." That would amount to 55.5 percent of the delegation if Florida had not been penalized.
"Afterwards, I will appeal to the Convention Credentials Committee for the remaining portion of delegates to bring us up to 211 votes," he explained..
Whether political insiders would be satisfied with the l/2 vote solution is still questionable.
Several activists say nothing less than full representation would satisfy them.
But, Ausman -- who says he is still uncommitted -- said "The problem here is twofold: One, Florida did violate the "timing rule" and Florida knew the penalty was a 50 percent reduction in the delegation; two, we need to focus on the "getting elected" portion of the saying and be a positive force for the nominee rather than a negative story leading into the convention.
That Florida will be seated in full before June 3 is still a longshot is sparking protests,
including one by bus loads of Floridians -- mostly backers of Sen. Clinton -- who were in
Washington on April 30th for a rally before the DNC headquarters. The group had hoped
to confront party leaders and argue that the Sunshine State's disqualified January primary
results should be counted. They were asking that all 211 Florida delegates be seated at the
August convention in Denver, but the most that they received was a handful of press
clippings and TV coverage of their effort.
Florida Deserves Representation (FDR) founder Jim Hannigan of Palm Harbour, organizer of the bus-protest , says he is angry that his vote is not being counted and would not be satisfied with the so-called l/2 vote solution. "We want our full vote."
Jose Fernandez, of Orlando, State Coordinator for the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC), has said "anyone who believes that their voting is being violated" should not be satisfied with one-half a vote,.
Most of those seeking delegate slots in Tampa this weekend, agree that despite the unfulfilled promise of National Party Chairman Howard Dean to recognize the Florida vote; despite the fact that no one knows how the delegates will eventually be allocated; and despite the fact that the DNC refuses to designate a hotel for Florida delegates in Denver for the convention, Aug, 25-28 -- they will still participate in the final phase of selecting delegates and alternates based on the January results.
Dean has said Florida would be seated once the two candidates are in agreement, but
there is general feeling that he is just waiting until all the primaries are over on June 3 "or until there is an eventual nominee. " Clinton favors seating all of the Florida delegation while Sen.Obama has said "no" because the state thwarted the party rules and, as a result, not all of the candidates campaigned there, believing the voting wouldn't be counted toward the nomination.
"That could backfire," one unaffiliated Superdelegate explained. "The DNC's action is playing right into the hands of the Republicans."
Because the superdelegates -- the powerful clique of party insiders -- will probably select the nominee, Florida media has been paying special attention to that select group. Florida has 25 superdelegates, identified in the Miami Herald as the "Power Brokers." Of the 25, seven are now said to be pro-Clinton, five for Obama and 13, uncommitted. All of them are being barraged with emails, phone calls and personal visits by surrogates of both Clinton and Obama.
Local party leaders, meantime, say they are just proceeding as if Florida was "just "one of the regular kids.......not the "misunderstood child.".
Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to
Funny how all these problem that we keep having, with Presidential elections, is coming from a state that has a Bush as Governor.
Do keep up, Bush is no longer the Governor of Florida it is Charlie Crist. Glad to see you keep up and no doubt vote with an educated mind. An Obama supporter?
Dean - If you are a Clinton supporter that means you're much more informed - that would mean you've disregarded all her various personalities/strategies/pandering and just plain lies. I wanted nothing more than to elect a woman for president - just not that woman. She can't run her campaign - she can't handle it's finances - and she hasn't decided which Hillary found her voice/self/whatever.....bad choice for those of us who had hoped for a woman - maybe next time the dems won't select someone who thinks the job is an entitlement for all her anguish. where is your mind??!
Same old song from you supporters she lies and has a multiple personality disorder. NEWSFLASH so does your candidate lie, as do ALL of them. Next
You're right bad choice someone who actually has accomplishments, someone who has actually held office for more than one term doing something in it. This was the same rhetoric they espoused when she ran for the Senate. Amazingly she turned out to be one of the best Senators. Amazingly she's such a bad person on her reelection she garnered about 70% of the vote from NY, Democrats and Republicans all voted for her. Hmmmm, think maybe it's because she does a good job. NO that can't be it after all she's Hillary Clinton.
Do please grow a brain before calling my decision intelligent. Come at me with a candidate that has more than talking points and a sound bite. Give me something behind the smoke, show me accomplishments.
Florida,
Your ELECTED OFFICIALS are the ones who screwed you over. These are the individuals that you voted into office that despite knowing the outcome of what would happen should they go against the rules DID SO ANYWAY and got all of your votes nullified. Be pissed at these individuals, being mad at the DNC is the wrong move cause if your really upset about getting played, the state needs to OUST THE ELECTED OFFICIALS!
... Keep your eyes open
...many of these elected officials are republicans and KNEW what they were doing when they did this.
Florida fucked us in 2000 and wants to fuck us again now. Well go right ahead. If you want to act like a bunch of spoiled kids and vote for four more years of this crap, do so. Only the rest of us are gonna put a man in office - Barack Obama - that will get this country turned around - I assure you Billary won't be doing that. Don't worry, we'll bring you guys along for the ride even if you don't deserve it.
I live in Florida and I did not get to vote for Obama because i thought votes did not count. It would be unfair to give Clinton all of FL. I think people should relax and let the DNC handle this but it is obvious that Hillary is the one making a huge fuss out of a state that she herself singned a pledge that they violated rules and would not count. Now she wants a full seating because she is losing? That is just not fair.
It's your own fault if you didn't vote. 1.7 million of us managed to.
Just wondering how many of Clinton's Florida vote was of the "Low Information" type? It makes perfect sense that a good portion of Obama support stayed home because the VOTE WAS NOT SUPPOSE TO COUNT.
Floridians have a history of low information voters. It's safe to say that these misguided voters cost Gore the election in 2000. REMEMBER the famous "butterfly ballot" designed by one of Florida's Democratic Goons? I'll admit the ballot was a little hooky, but most people figured it out. Exceptions, the low information voters voted instead for Pat Buchanan thinking they were casting their votes for Gore.
I think its foolish to even think the Democrats in Florida will not vote in November because of some possible penalties for violating the DNC rules in regards to primaries. Or, are they stupid besides also being low information.
Florida, take your chops like a real man. Hillaryites, accept the fact that its not your turn this time. Next time get behind a real woman. Hillary can not be elected to anything except the KKK. Oh, sorry, I meant the poor, hard working white people's leader.
So, you think that we should become like North Korea's democracy and cast votes even though they won't matter when a true democracy requires our input, and gives us every reason to believe they make a difference in the outcomes.
Degrading somebody for not wasting their time and our tax money by voting in an election that legally cannot be counted accomplishes nothing but to condone the practice of holding worthless votes and rewarding those who violate the rules.
I am tired of Florida acting like a spoiled child. What about the other 48 states that followed the rules? If these states bully their way back in, every state will start breaking the rules in 2012. If Florida and Michigan want to punish someone they should punish their elected officials. If they want to vote for McCain they can go ahead and act like children. If they would doom this country to 4 more years of Republican Policy. Go ahead. Stomp your feet. But dont expect the rest of the country to support or respect you. Because if John McCain is our next President we will no who to blame.
where were all these delegates when THEIR legislature changed the rules? If their was no campaign in Fl, then that gives clinton an unfair advantageby seating all of the delegates. For those democrats that threaten to vote for MCcain, just remember it will be YOU sending your children and grandchildren to be slaughtered in this Republican war in Iraq!
If there are no consequences for states' parties' failing to keep agreements (MI and FL leapfrogging over all of the other states after the representatives to the DNC agreed on the format and the order by which the primaries would be held), what's to prevent other states from doing the same thing as MI and FL in 2012?
Isn't this the very model of our democracy?
If MI and FL refuse to abide by the rules they signed on to, how can we have a democracy in which we all agree to abide by the rule of law?
MI and FL need to be very careful about their actions at this point. For the well-being of the nation, for their states, for their own citizens. Are they really saying that they can't be trusted to keep their word, and behave civilly? Are they saying that they will not abide by the rule of law?
You do not know what you are talking about! Why should the Florida democrats be penalized for a republican tactic that set the primary date too early, overriding the opposition of democrats. It seems to me that the republicans set this up brilliantly to drive Florida to the republicans at the general election and Dean and his totally incompetent team fell for it.
Grow up!
I remember another Florida fiasco of 2000.
We got stuck with 8 years of an idiot in control.
Let's not repeat the experience.
We won't survive.
If it is Republican tactics maybe Florida should turn their sites on the Florida Legislature and Governor. Vote them out of office. Maybe if Florida residents would pay attention to what goes on in Florida they might not have this problem. The problem is Republicans but you are blaming the Democrats, why? Florida voted these officials into office. Seems time for a house cleaning in Florida.
I appreciate that you've repeatedly posted that it was the state legislatures (and governors) that set the primary dates, not the state parties.
Alas, I think your attempt to set the record straight will not convince anyone.
People posting here are perfectly capable of finding out the facts through a quick internet search; however, they choose to remain ignorant. I've seen innumerable posts here and at other sites that mis-state how the primary dates were set, the terms of the 4-state pledge, etc.
Interestingly, people's willful ignorance on this matter parallels that of the people who insist that Obama is a Muslim.
Maybe because all the candidate knew what the consequences were and abided by the rules. Hillary Clinton knew and abided by the rules until she knew she couldn't win. Her won manager said he would accept 50-50 on Meet the Press last week, Now he changes his mind. What about the other candidates? They followed the rules. Our country is a "rule of laws". Apparently Clinton feels she does not have to abide by the law or rules. I think it just shows what kind of President she would be. I am a firm believer if you give your word, you don't go back on it. And you can bet, if she were ahead, this would not be happening. This was her plan all along. She will through her dishonesty be the president. No doubt in my mind. However, it that happens, you can rest asure, the Republicans will win and there will no long be a Democratic Party.
Interesting. If you apply these same measures to the other candidates none of them would qualify to be president. McCain went back on his word on campaign reform and torture legislation, just to name two. Obama went back on his commitment (and flaunted the DNC rules) not to run ads in Florida, changed his mind regarding the divisive and racist remarks of his ex pastor Wright, changed his mind at last twice on how much contributions he received from Rezko, just to name three. Although I support Clinton, because she is the only democratic candidate who has a fair chance to beat McCain, I do not claim that she is perfect and never makes mistakes. This I believe is the main difference between the Obama supporters in general and the Clinton supporters. The Obama supporters are fanatic, could never admit that their idol makes mistakes and would never admit that his opponent, Clinton, has points of strength. This is the typical hallmark or a sect built on personality cult.
If FL and MI delegations are seated, they will have been REWARDED and will have gotten what they were after all along: The first and last say in the Democratic Party's nomination.
The powers that be behind this stunt will also have successfully eliminated the votes of the citizens who would have voted in the election had they believed "it would count". Populist votes, for populist candidates; that's not Hillary. Hillary is the establishment's candidate. Barack Obama wasn't the only Democratic candidate in the race who abided by the rules of the contest, didn't campaign, removed his name from the ballot, etc.
We will never know the true and accurate preference of Florida's and Michigan's citizens. Yes, like 2000, Florida's citizens are screwed, but it's up to Florida's (and Michigan's) citizens to go after the REAL culprits who are stealing their votes. Once you research who was behind this effort to leapfrog over all other states, you can lay that blame at the feet of the Clinton machine and their surrogates. [See the Clintons' Cuban-connection (and problem), Debbie and John Dingell.]
Again, why don't you take the trouble and look up the facts. In Florida the date was set by the republican majority over the opposition of the democrats. They did it because they wanted to cause trouble in the democratic party and Dean and the DNC leadership swallowed it. What a sorry party we are with such incompetent leadership!!
Nonsense - it was NOT at the opposition of the Florida Democrats in the legislature.
My recall on this is that the Democrats in the state legislature went along with this. That complicity gave the candidates permission to treat the primary as legitimate, and Senator Clinton maximized that to campaign for votes. The other candidates left their names on the ballot but did not campaign. In Michigan, only Senator Clinton left her name on the ballot. I don't think Florida Democrats have anything to bellyache about, and I would think that regardless of which candidate "won" the primary. The DNC Rules Committee agreed unanimously to assign one-half of the delegates rather than the full delegate if primaries were held in Florida and Michigan. Harold Ickes is on that committee, and was part of the agreement. He is a major strategist for the Clinton campaign. It seems to me that their campaign began agitating to count these votes only when her nomination was no longer inevitable.
Dean and the DNC were no more in control of what Florida's Republican legislature did than the Florida democrats. Why not see this for what it truly was? Florida Republicans doing what they do best, which is play Florida democrats like a fine-tuned instrument. Do you think the Florida legislature didn't know what the penalty would be? Republicans right now are scrambling, and they need to throw a wrench into the democratic side of things. What the Florida Republican legislature did was wrong, but also brilliant. Look at the mass chaos, to use Limbaugh's operation, they have caused. The democrats are so busy fighting each other, they are going to hand the General Election to the Republicans once again. What should have happened, and probably would have happened if Hillary Clinton's ego did not get into the way, is that the democratic candidates should have just accepted the way it was like they initially did. Hillary wants to win, which is the ONLY reason she wants the votes to now count. Anyone who doesn't see that is only fooling themselves. Hillary did not stand up for the voters of Michigan and Florida initially. Ask yourselves why she is doing it now and be honest. She is the one who is now perpetuating this thing by now making the voters of Michigan and Florida think she is on our side. She isn't. She is on HER side.
I do not think anyone claims that Clinton is totally selfless. She is not and neither is Obama. However, she won the primary in one of the biggest state, Florida, which will, again probably play a pivotal role in the general election. She deserves the delegates. It is funny that no-one seems to remember that Obama was the only democrat who actually run ads in Florida, totally ignoring the DNC rules that he initially agreed to.
What I don't really see when this issue is being discussed, is this - if the shoe were on the other foot - and Clinton was not so far behind the eight ball - I don't think she would be up in arms for the "fairness" of having FL and MI seated. Obviously she wasn't that interested at first - but the more it looked as though she were going to lose, the more she fought to have them seated. If Obama was in her place she would NEVER be fighting to hard for it. Can ANYONE tell me she would be? I don't think so. Clinton is only interested in fairness as it pertains to her.
Yes, she's all about fairness. She repeatedly states that she "believes" that the people should be heard, that their votes matter. That is unless they are from a state that she lost, in which case she reminds us that the even the pledged delegates, aren't REQUIRED to vote for the candidate they were chosen to represent by the voters.
So which is it Hillary? Do the voters matter, or not?
She's not actually even looking for fairness. Those primaries in FL and MI were open primaries. Back then, before Operation Chaos was in operation, Republicans and independents were voting not only for Democrats (Obama) but for candidates in the Republican Party - McCain hadn't locked up the nomination.
Early on, when everyone was negotiating possible fixes (and before McCain had had the necessary number of delegates to win his party's nomination), Hillary Clinton refused to agree to an open primary. Democrats only! That was when sincere Republicans and independents were crossing over to vote for Obama.
Hillary Clinton has been trying to game this race, win it by hook or by crook, anyway but fairly and by abiding by the rules.
FL primaries are CLOSED.
The blame for the messes in Florida and Michigan rest solely on the shoulders of Florida and Michigan Democrats; not on Howard Dean or Barrack Obama or any Democrat outside of Michigan or Florida. Everyone, including Clinton, agreed to abide by the DNC's rules before the primaries began. At that time, Clinton thought she had the nomination locked-up so she didn't give a s**t about Michigan and Florida voters. But when she discovered she wasn't going to get elected if she followed the rules she agreed to follow, she conveniently started caring about Michigan and Florida voters. People who knowingly break the rules should not be rewarded for breaking them. And people who agree to abide by the rules should not be rewarded for reneging on the promise to abide by them. In my mind, including Florida and Michigan voters in a manner that favors one candidate over the other is tantamount to ex post facto law. It's wrong. It's arbitrary and unfair. It's un-American!
Wow, it looks like most of the people here have no clue why the Florida primaries were held early! It certainly can not be blamed on the Florida democrats. It was a republican ploy and you all are falling for it. How sad....
This may have been a Republican ploy, but it was foisted on the citizens with help from Florida's Democrats.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/politics/blog/2007/09/florida_democrats_doing_the_ri.html
I went onto one of her web sights today to see if they'd let me blog! I couldn't even get my question on there. They won'lt even let you discuss any thing unless it's to praise Mrs. Clinton! Just how fair is that? here you can ask questions about both candidates! Some times you get called dumb for not know ing the ans. already. But, along comes some one who will give you the answer. Some are rude and others are nice. Some are smart, with smart opinions, and some are dumb. Otherwise every on of color,religeon and partys blog here an usually listen to each other.
That stock answer is also the truth and all the information that is required to understand. Nothing else. 27 EVs (fully one tenth needed to win in the fall) and the history of FL mean EVERYTHING! This blind spot with the DNC and negotiation crap is almost as amazingly arrogant as thinking that disentrancing 2.3M voters would be suitable or accepted resolution in a democracy.
Dean has been trying to make a silk purse out of a sow"s ear in his mess for months now.
Dean, attempting to seat those voters in an inequitable fashion or only after the nominee is chosen is blatantly obvious, as is his lack of leadership or just straight corruption (you choose) on this subject. Dean, Obama and the DNC are inexorably linked to the mess as demonstrated by the fact in a head-to-head FL race against McCain Clinton wins while Obama loses by 10 points!
OH, MI, PA and NJ will relate to the BS from the arrogant and elite DNC run by Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Hart, Bradley and company, seeing right through another liberal candidate being crammed down the throat of all Democrats, who has split the party no less, when we really need someone that can relate to basic democratic principles.
So if Florida doesn't get it's way they won't vote for the Democratic nominee?
That's pathetic to vote against womens rights, Supreme court justices and policies which have been screwing the nation for the last 7 years.
IDIOTS! Grow the Hell up!
Posted May 14, 2008 | 12:46 PM (EST)