How The 'Dream Ticket' Can Become A Nightmare

One of the things that gets lost in the way the media dissects the electorate into their most bitter and disaffected distillations is that the vast majority of Democratic voters think that being left with Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton represents an abundance of riches and that both are so appealing that there is widespread hope -- indeed, anticipation -- of a so-called "Dream Ticket" cute-overload team-up that combines the best qualities of each candidate into an unstoppable force for HOPESPERIENCE.

But because the major media frame for the Democratic race is that it's an interminable march into certain oblivion, it's only a matter of time before every Dream gets shredded like a clutter of kittens in an angry woodchipper. And so, we get this piece from Bob Beckel, reminding us that even the Dream Ticket scenario could occur in the cauldron of inter-campaign antipathy. And, as you might expect, those cursed superdelegates are the unwitting servants of Armageddon:

Just consider for a moment the final phone call with Bill Clinton when the super delegate had to tell him he or she had decided to go with Obama. Clinton," It's time to make a decision. Hillary needs you and I need you. We've been through a lot together. When you needed me I was there, now we need you".

Super delegate, "Mr. President, this is the hardest thing I've ever had to do, but I'm going with Obama because (whatever). Ask me for anything else Mr. President, but I've got to do this". Clinton, "I'm very disappointed and personally hurt, but do what you think you have to do. So long."

Now imagine its June 4th and Clinton calls again. Clinton, "I know Obama has enough votes to win, but I wanted you to know Hillary has decided to run for vice president at the convention. You know there are two roll call votes at the convention: first president then for vice president. I know you are voting for Obama for president. Fine, but I want your commitment to vote for Hillary for vice president."

And that's when the Blackberry Jam Apocalypse begins:

You imagine being on the floor in Denver. Hillary's delegates, NEARLY HALF THE DELEGATES, are demanding she be on the ticket. These are true believers who have stuck with Clinton through thick and thin. To them, putting Hillary on the ticket is a crusade.

Most Clinton delegates are women, most Democratic voters are women, and they're going to just accept some middle aged white governor that Obama is rumored to want? No way. They are in your face. Hillary supporters from back home are jamming your Blackberry. This and more horror scenes flash through your mind in a nano second.

So there you have it. Some say the world will end in fire, some say in ice, but all agree that it will probably happen at the Democratic National Convention.

Comments

[Ohioliberal]

To all the Hillary supporters - Sorry, Hillary on the ticket would be absolute poison for Obama. The last thing we need this election cycle is energized Republicans fueled by their blind hatred of Clinton showing up at the polls enmassed and enraged - All the democrats Down Ticket fear that scenario. Also how can Obama continue to run on "change" when your running mate is the poster child for the "bad status quo" he's trying to change? Also how can Obama concentrate on the nation's business and manage Hill & Bill at the same time? I say go ahead and vote against yours and your family's best interests the next four years and vote for McCain.

[nellie]

Wha???

I think the Democratic party is more strategic than what is described in this article. The plus of Clinton on the ticket—her supporters will be happy about it. The minuses of Clinton on the ticket—Republicans playing Clinton attacks on Obama while she is on the ticket (they'll play them anyway, but how much more awkward with Clinton running as VP), nothing added to the ticket in terms of geography or independents, Clinton's negatives may motivate Republicans to turn out in greater numbers, Bill Clinton's ego.

Given these realities, it seems to make more sense for Clinton to motivate her supporters to get behind Obama and his VP choice. She may want the VP slot, but as the Rolling Stones wisely note, "You can't always get what you want."

[hillarysupporter]

You're not making any sense at all. Obama needs Hillary's votes. And those votes are not going
to an Obama/Edwards ticket or any other ticket.

[anney]

You know there are two roll call votes at the convention: first president then for vice president. I know you are voting for Obama for president. Fine, but I want your commitment to vote for Hillary for vice president."

=====

Why would the delegates who vote for Obama vote for Hillary Clinton rather than HIS choice for VP? He has a "plan" for the kind of government he wants to have when in office, and it certainly doesn't include having Hillary Clinton foisted on him as his unwanted VP. His entire platform has been to change politics from old style Washington corruption and nastiness to something people can rationally make decisions about. She never "got it" or she wouldn't have conducted a kneecapping ugly campaign against him but would have instead campaigned on whatever issues she thought were important.

Kathy Nichols, I don't think you'll win any points by pressuring the superdelegates to vote for Clinton. Many have already indicated they don't appreciate the Hillary-pushers.

[campgranata]

Because MRS Clinton has the ability to vacillate between warrior queen and victim she has been difficult for Senator Obama to confront without looking like a bully. The Republicans will have figured out a way to attack her on her record or lack of and will care less if they appear misogynistic nor will their base.

[jbsouth]

Listen SWEETIE'S....................if Clinton loses...........she does not need to be on the ticket, but Obama might need her.

[kdublya]

Let's see how Edwards fares against her, shall we?

[Thabit]

Who in their right mind would want their heartbeat between the clintons and something they want this bad . If the Clintons are on this ticket , food tasters , a triple secret service detail and wearing Ironmans suit 24/7 would not keep Barack alive for a year

Oh no you cant clintons



Obama 08

[thrdr]

Scary. Clinton on the same ticket as VP alongside Obama is bad strategy from the starting gate. All of her snipes at Obama about his lack of "experience" (nevermind her own lack of "experience") and more will echo back tenfold from the Republican side, and what will she do to defend his nomination and their campaign? Somehow declare "That was then and this is now"? How is she going to do that, exactly? I'm trying to think of the complicated prevarications she'd have to come up with. The truth is that she's painted herself into a corner with her own vomit.

[JamesInDenver]

That's why Hillary will do it. Making sure Obama doesn't win, opens the way for 2012. If she actually goes this route, hopefully people will see her true motives. She will pretend to campaign hard with Obama, but she will be praying for defeat. If the combined ticket actually wins, she would have to wait to 2016 when she is 68.

[hillarysupporter]

B.S.

[Heartlight3]

If he chose Kathleen Sebelius, that would take the wind out of the sails of those who are playing the sexist card.

[hillarysupporter]

wtf is sebelius. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean hillary supporters will vote for her.
We vote for experienced candidates with enough depth of knowledge iof the system to bring about change.

[thrdr]

Yes. Seblius would be good strategy to pick up the female vote. But not necessarily in other ways, perhaps . . . .
I guess the question to ask is what percentage of women who've stuck with Hillary have been "true" Dems, or from anywhere on the Left? I mean, Clinton has benefited enormously in several of those all-important "big state" primaries from malicious crossover voting.

[jbsouth]

Listen SWEETIE..............Clinton may turn your ticket down if offered.

[disgustedbyitall]

Could you help us all out with that? Maybe give her a call?...

[campgranata]

But who would chance it? trustworthy she is not.

[disgustedbyitall]

Someone enlighten me. Whenever the rules get read, my eyes always glazed over. Can the delegates really vote to choose a vice presidential candidate the presidential candidate doesn't want? I just don't recall this scenario occurring in the past.

[campgranata]

no they can not; what they can do is put pressure on the candidate to choose someone the party believes will bolster the ticket and almost guarantee a win. Kennedy was pressure into asking LBJ who he didn't want and LBJ was not suppose to accept but you really can't trust politicians can you? Kennedy was helped, however, by the experience of LBJ; Obama will not be helped by Clinton's experience unless he asks Bill for it is on his record she has run.

[disgustedbyitall]

Funny you should mention the JFK-LBJ ticket... That's exactly my image of an Obama-Clinton ticket. They hated each other and LBJ basically got exiled to ribbon-cuttings til Kennedy was assassinated. Can't see Obama wanting to work closely with Clinton. It goes way beyond qualifications--it's about character. If I were him, I wouldn't trust her to walk my dog, not if I wanted it back.

She's been an unqualified terror on the campaign trail and I just can't see why anyone would think it would work. The fact that Clinton supporters are so belligerent right now, literally threatening people about the convention and getting her on as vice president is a great indicator of the insidious hostility she has brought to this campaign. It's a win-at-all-costs, scorched earth strategy--and it's from the top down.

[campgranata]

the Clinton folks who are threatening to vote mccain should have t-shirts made that state: "Hillary supporters support wire hangers, ergot and back room abortions. "

[MeLuvHillary]

Everyone on this board seems to think it's going to be a walk for Barry come this November. I'm just not so sure. Frankly, I don't want Hillary to take to VP slot. If he loses, which is a possibility--I know it's difficult to fathom because how can "Jesus" lose-- his supporters and every other Barry lovin' political hack would jump on the "it's Hillary's fault" bandwagon. I say, if he loses, let him lose on his own. And then there's 2012. If he wins, let him win on his own--though once again, I think it will be a much tougher road to ho than the wide-eyed believe. And in that case, Hillary, it was fun while it lasted. Love you and belive in you.

PS
Spare me your stupidity about me wanting him to fail, or blah blah blah so on, because I don't. I just don't believe it's going to be as easy as some claim. Oh, and I don't believe it would be a walk for her either. So, stay the venom. Retract your fangs.

[Relax08]

First stop with the RNC crap about Obama being a religious figure. It's insulting and suggests that our excitement about him is irrational rather than being based on his intelligence, skills and excitement as a candidate and future President. He's a vastly better candidate and person than Hillary or McBush.

As far as her being on the ticket you seem to forget how many people really really hate Hillary. She won't make things better, she will just bring her damn drama with her.

No one on this board believes Obama's run is going to be easy. It won't be. It will be very hard.

And as for retracting venom and retracting fangs why don't you call the person by his right name for a change and show some respect for the person that beat the Clinton machine like no one else ever has.

[MeLuvHillary]

Wow. I'm gonna need you to breathe. In with the good air; out with the bad air. Take a stroll through the boards. Alot of people think it's going to be easy. Apparently you don't. Good for you; welcome onboard.

You seem to forget how many people really really like her and respect her ability. You also seem to forget that while he is winning, it has hardly been a blowout. She garnered nearly half of the votes placed so far. An inconvenient truth perhaps?

I call her Hill, H, HRC, or a hundred other nicknames. I call him Barry because it is the nickname I have choosen for him. If you take that as a slight or insult, that seems to be a problem of a personal variety, because that not how it's meant. Why don't you ask your "friends" to stop referring to her by less flattering and inherently insulting appellations. Thank you.

[jbsouth]

Right on.................from another Clinton lover.

[jem286]

Pipe down, sweetie.

[iPolitics]

She doesn't fit his change message. Period. The loser doesn't dictate to the winner. This is about America and it's future not about her.

[ornovscot]

I can understand how or why this would happen. John Kennedy was compelled to accept Lyndon Johnson as his running mate, against the former's better judgments and, as history has shown, his better sense. It was assumed that Johnson would help Kennedy garner additional votes in the South and Soutwest during the general election. As it was, JBJ won by a rather narrow margin.

I understand the pressure that will brought to bear on the Obama campaign. Certainly as a supporter of Obama, I can wish and hope that his campaign will resist those efforts and will be allowed to choose someone like Jim Webb or John Edwards. But, politics being the art of the possible, where all types of deals are made, however the principals dislike each other, I can foresee Senator Obama's choosing Hillary Clinton as his running mate.

I pray that this will not happen, as I think Hillary Clinton will cause more division and will tend to undermine an Obama Administration, because she will not be satisfied with being Vice President. Her ambitions are much more deep-seated and relentless. In addition, her policies with respect to Iraq are not quite same as those of Senator Obama.

To conclude, Hillary Clinton as a tendency to divide the electorate, and that tendency will tend to distract the goals Senator Obama will be trying to accomplish.

[campgranata]

LBJ brought JFK Texas; Hillary will bring nothing but grief. she does not play well with others and always wants to be in charge; not good for a VP.

[hillarysupporter]

Obama campaign has divided the democrats by labelling the Hillary supporters as uneducated. Sure there are some uneducated Hillary supporters. But there are far more atttorneys, doctors, business owners, managers, etc. who are HIllary supporters as well.
And it goes without saying, just from reading the messages on this post, there's a high percentage of Obama supporters who don't even have a high school diploma.

[Thabit]

Who in their right mind would want their heartbeat between the clintons and something they want this bad . If the Clintons are on this ticket , food tasters , a triple secret service detail and wearing Ironmans suit 24/7 would not keep Barack alive for a year

[Kreskytim]

He should offer it and then she should decline it. If Obama loses in the fall and Clinton is VP, his supporters will blame Hillary. They've already laid the ground work for the blame game.
Besides I doubt Obama could get his wife's OK to unify the Democratic party.

Obama the healer and unifier seems to be unable and unwilling to work his magic right here at home with fellow Democrats. Certainly his most avid supporters would have no part of an olive branch to the other half of the party. Save all your negotiating, peace making skill power for Ahmadinejad.

[campgranata]

Oh, the way LBJ declined? you mean the way the 'solutions' candidate has not worked her magic in NY State? Basically she contradicts his message and if it is on his message that he is electable she threatens this.

[TedMn]

Those opposed to a Democratic presidency might have to go low to have a chance, perhaps very, very low. The thing is, I'm not sure that a slime campaign will actually work against Obama. If flag pins, sound bites, the fact of being born, and acquaintance are all they really got, the high road of reason and meaningful issues could work well enough.

However, I remember exactly what the Clinton's baggage is. I can't help it. It seemed at the time like there was nothing else on the news for years except Clinton scandals, and scandals with lots of meat to them. Seven years ago voters knew too, and this is why Bill Clinton was not out there campaigning hard for Gore. People forget, and Democrats are not reminding anyone if they can help it.

As for the right wing attack artists, this disciplined, strategical silence over the Clinton's baggage would end the day after she appears on the ticket, and I'm sure that key nuggets could wait till a week or two just before voting. A ticket with Hillary Clinton on it is the dream ticket for Republicans. This is unfair in many ways for Senator Clinton, but I can't feel sorry for The Clintons. They have had everything already.

[disgustedbyitall]

Sure, the Dems harbor a lot of fears about jeopardizing November if they don't put them both on the ticket. A McCain presidency would be a disaster.

On the other hand, as I perceive it anyway, that so many people have come out to vote for--and donate to--Obama is that he represents a sharp break with Washington. I'm not going venture into the minefield of discussing whether or not that's fact or propaganda; one thing I've learned about politicians is that they always break your heart. It's just who they are.

But is it really wise to risk all those people--I count myself among them--who would likely stay home if the original message is compromised? I despise the Beltway crowd. They're everything that's wrong with this country--the division, the corruption, the animosity, the belligerence, the bellicosity... Why would I vote for a ticket to return another one of them to, if not the White House, then second fiddle, to help increase the chance of a return to politics as usual when she eventually runs again? Ain't gonna happen...

[hugs4u]

If Obama became president and Hillary was vice president, it would be another Kennedy, Johnson history happening. Just might be some where besides Dallas.

[cin]

the nightmare will be if obama wins and leaves hillary off...
I already no of nine people including myself that won't vote in november because of the way the progressive blogs destroyed the clintons...

[campgranata]

so don't vote, I believe the loyalty is to MRS Clinton's reproductive system and when the Clinton base realizes that young and other women of reproductive age will have to resort to wire hangers and ergot and back room abortions to end an unwanted pregnancy they will reconsider and support a woman's right to choose. the Clintons have always blamed others for their actions and it doesn't look as though that will change but that they can be seen by some as victims is truly mind boggling.

[debwarot]

No one can 'destroy' two power politicians by writing about them in a blog now, can they?

f you decide you do not want to get behind the Democratic nominee and would prefer to stay home, please realize that saying home is just about the same as voting for McCain. The choice is yours - an opportunity to vote FOR change and progress or stay home and thereby help McCain move into the WH..............