Is That Fair? John Kennedy vs. Mamie Eisenhower??

Zbigniew Brzezinski just engaged in a high-sizzle, must watch exchange on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" this morning with Joe Scarborough, Tucker Carlson and his daughter -- Mika Brzezinski.

He offers unadulterated praise for Barack Obama -- but as usual and beyond the issue of his endorsement, Brzezinski's incisive intellect, analysis and wit penetrate to the core many fundamental realities that DC pundits and news commentators and analysts rarely get to.

But before the serious, there was a shockingly humorous metaphor Brzezinski offered.

Brzezinski provocatively compared Hillary Clinton to Mamie Eisenhower in his commentary and suggested that despite Clinton traveling to more than 80 countries during her First Lady tenure (Brzezinski said his travel agent has been to 150), he said that it's basically like John F. Kennedy being faced by a challenge from Mamie Eisenhower.

Tucker Carlson said that he would have loved to have had a Clinton surrogate on the show to see the person's facial shade -- which he speculated would be "crimson."

I am a devoted Brzezinski fan -- and his critique of Hillary Clinton's Iraq War positions are similar to my own -- but I differ from him on the Mamie Eisenhower front. Hillary Clinton is a policy junky. Although Ike's First Lady was a well respected hostess for what was then an unprecedented number of global leaders calling on one of the great American generals turned president of the era, no one would have found Mamie Eisenhower drilling down deep into public policy complexities like Hillary Clinton is known to do.

Brzezinski also fails to note that Hillary Clinton is not only a US Senator (Liddy Dole is too after all) -- Clinton is considered by Republicans and Democrats to be one of the few who actually excel in their Senate responsibilities and Senate-craft.

Also and lastly, the role of the First Lady has been changing. Ronald Reagan's wife, Nancy, clearly had a policy impact. Hillary Clinton was given a formal role by her husband on health care policy. In a similar way, the Office of the Vice President has been changing and has statutorily acquired more power and importance because of the way in which Cheney's team -- particularly his success chiefs of staff Scooter Libby and David Addington -- have modified the explicit powers of the VP's office. No Vice President in the future will be directly comparable to the VP's of the past.

But on other fronts, Zbigniew Brzezinski frames some of the challenges that Americans need to hear and consider. The entire 8-minute clip should be watched.

But on the Iraq War, Brzezinski stated that America is bogged down in Iraq and now "part of the problem in Iraq." He said that we need to "disengage intelligently" and "create a political framework in the region that can mitigate the consequences of American withdrawal."

Brzezinski continued -- saying that "McCain will continue the war until there is some kind of victory -- the definition of which keeps changing."

On the economy, Brzezinski stated:

The economy is not only stumbling but the economy reflects fundamental economic injustices in America.

The rich have gotten richer. The poor have gotten poorer. The gaps have widened and the system is unresponsive. . .

On the Middle East and specifically on Israel-Palestine, Brzezinski said:

. . .The region to change has to evolve on its own and its own culture has to adapt.

You don't change a region by injecting a foreign army and pulverizing a state and then saying that you are in fact nurturing democracy.

I think we have to be helpful but we have to avoid actions that inflame the region. This is why it is very important to try to bring the war in Iraq to an end.

It is equally important to try to help the Israelis and the Palestinans reach peace because their conflict not only inflames the region but is devastating for the Israelis and for the Palestinians -- and in different ways, there is suffering on both sides.

And if we can step in and in some fashion broker a compromise between the Israelis and the Palestinians, for which incidentally the public opinions on both sides in Israel and among the Palestinians is far more ready than many people in this country realize, we can really contribute to a much more stable Middle East.

I have learned recently that Zbigniew Brzezinski's primer on the presidential decision-making approaches on national security taken by George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush -- Second Chance: Three Presidents and the Crisis of American Superpower -- will be out this next month in paperback with a new foreward.

Regardless of whether people agree with Brzezinski on his comparisons of Hillary Clinton to Mamie Eisenhower, his deeper analysis of the way in which presidents approach national security crises and make decisions is important.

-- Steve Clemons publishes the popular political blog, The Washington Note

Comments

[PioneerKing]

OH PLEASE!! get over yourself it was all tongue in cheek, and quite amusing. Dr. Brzezinski provided an insightful and refreshing change from the usual round of shrill pundits.
Dr. Brzezinski was merely putting into perspective Sen. Clinton's assertions of expereince.
To hear Sen. Clinton tell it, it's as though that through osmosis she has become divinely qualified. Although, Sen Clinton may be a policy junkie it takes more than that to be a leader.
Sen. Clinton has failed to show true leadership in the manner in which she has campaigned. It's been nothing but the same old divisiveness and "say anything," to get elected tactics. How distasteful.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/how-will-hillarys-bosnia_b_92844.html

[JGatsby]

"I am a devoted Brzezinski fan" Are you also a big fan of other Neocons such as Wolfewitz, Feith, and Kristol? Don't let his democratic credentials fool you. Brzezinski literally wrote the book on Neocon philospy. His book "The Grand Chessboard" is the one most cited by both the right and left as the bible for the "Project for the New American Century". I hope that Obama doesn't select him to be a part of his team. That would be a major shift from thinkers such as Sarah Power to more of the same Bush ideas.

I do agree with his critique of Senator Clinton however. The idea that experience as a first lady qualifies one to be president is foolish. Only a media so saturated with nonsense about prostitutes and preachers could be gullible enough to even consider it.

[LAJonathan]

What a great clip! This guy knows his stuff.

[bobsmith]

Brzezinski nailed it. Nevertheless, whether Hillary has relevant "experience" or not is a distraction from these more important considerations:

--Clinton is a DLC, DINO, republican-lite, corporate-owned, Wal-Mart-board-union-busting, NAFTA-cheering, Lieberman-imitating, war-mongering, fake-Democrat. That, alone, should be enough to drive any Democrat away from her.

--Throughout the course of the campaign, Clinton has demonstrated on several occasions that she is a liar. That, alone, should be enough to drive any Democrat away from her.

--Clinton has actually gone so far as to campaign for Republican McCain via her claim that McCain would be preferable to the likely Democratic nominee. That, alone, should be enough to drive any Democrat away from her.

--Hillary Clinton is using Rovian fear tactics and racism to win an election. That should be enough to drive any Democrat away from her.

Hillary is already disqualified on so many levels that all this discussion about her "experience" is just a waste of time. The nomination process is over. Just ignore Hillary and get on with the business of defeating McCain.

[klondiker]

Comparing Hillary Clinton to Mamie Eisenhower is okay. Nary an eyebrow will be raised. But comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson is not.

Gloria Steinem was right along. Sexism is a much more debilitating force in America than racism - partly because sexism is not easily identified.

Any reasonable person who has followed Sen. Clinton's career knows that there is a difference between her and Mamie Eisenhower.

[mutatio]

"Gloria Steinem was right all along. Sexism is a much more debilitating force in America than racism - partly because sexism is not easily identified."

It isn't challenged nearly as much as it needs to be, largely because it exists across every racial and ethnic spectrum where women are subjugated. It's not incredibly dissimilar to heterosexism. People don't understand the impact of heterosexist and/or homophobic assumptions because homosexuality is viewed as aberrant in virtually every race/creed/ethnicity/etc. So when bigotry is directed at the LGBT community it usually garners a collective shrug of the shoulders by mainstream society. The same goes for women and in many ways is exacerbated by the fact that such assumptions are not only carried, reinforced, and enforced by men, but also by women.

[Roses]

I agree with you about Mamie Eisenhower being an unfortunate choice for argument and says alot more about Mr. Brzenzinski and the other men he was talking to then about Senator Clinton's agendae. However, be very careful about making sweeping assessments on the different impacts of racism and sexism in this society based on personal experience or anecdotes. Don't jump to the conclusion that Obama's supporters do not see the impact of gender as well as the impact of race. This is not a contest to see who has suffered more inequality.
I have also seen many instances of sexism directed against me personally in the past. It does make me angry when groups of males make light of the impact of sexism. It makes me even angrier when I see how dysfunctional our society has become over the mere mention of race. I think that Obama will start the discussion on healing our very racially divided, sexist, classist, multi-layered society.
Obama '08

[northeast73]

Clinton is considered by Republicans and Democrats to be one of the few who actually excel in their Senate responsibilities and Senate-craft.
==========

Actually it is refreshing to see somebody speak up about the ironic and unfair characterization of Hillary's 8 years as First Lady, as well as recognize her hard work in the Senate.

Hillary was a lightning rod of controversy when Bill took office because she took up in office in the west wing and took and active role in policy. Now, she is being smeared as a "mamie eisenhower" to Obamas' "JFK". Puleez.

It would be more abt to describe this as "eleanor roosevelt vs. ted kennedy circa 1960"

[SCG]

I can't recall any instances of Eleanor being patronizing,snide,scarastic....but that was before my time.

[larry278]

In the all too likely event someone or ones submit a comment maligning the late Mamie &/or Ike with stories in books associated with the John Birch Society & other anti-Communist groups & individuals who flourished during the Cold War-I should be grateful if they cited their sources. While I'd consider these comments to be off thread-I'm not a monitor or editor for HP. HP might feel that they'd have to post such comments to continue to provide fair & balanced coverage of an issue or incident to users of HP. HP is covering a nasty campaign. HP users might not know how nasty campaigns were during the Cold War. Nasty campaigns are a long standing American tradition.

[friedab14]

I am an Obama supporter and when I saw Brezinski on Morning Joe, I thought he was a pig in how he described Hillary. His comparison of Hillary Clinton to his travel agent and to Mamie Eisenhower was sarcastic and grossly sexist. Of course, it wasn't surprising to then hear him put down his daughter's intellectual abilities when he signed off of the interview. What an embarrassing ass.

[celticjag]

What a pleasure to hear such an intelligent person discuss the problems in the middle-east! Maybe he can serve the Obama administration in some capacity.

[slank]

You mention Nancy Reagan as an example of how the role of First Lady has changed but did not mention Laura Bush or for that matter, Barbara. Why is that?

[JDWPS]

I saw him but it struck me as a wry, tongue-in-cheek remark. Maybe I misunderstood but I perceived a twinkle in his eye.

[jhNY]

Nope. It's not fair. But thanks for asking.

[TommyMcCarthy]

I too, am a great admirer of Dr. Brezinski...and have long felt that he exemplifies something that has been lacking in foriegn policy professionals of BOTH political parties.
Mr. Brezinski has the ability to be a zealous champion of American interests abroad,without glossing over or ignoring American shortcomings both in policy and mind-set..., and without confusing "the national interest" with the interests of U.S. and multi-national corporations who so often seek "solutions" to international discord...not with an eye to the common good.... but merely to retain or enhance competitive position as exploiters of the peoples and resourses of the world.

In short, a man like Brezinski, and a man like Henry Kissinger, both brilliant , both referred to often as "Tough" actually bring a subtlely but critically different perspective to foriegn relations.

"Zbig" is most assuredly tough...Kissenger is merely mean.

While I continue to believe that Sen. Clinton would be a better President "out-of-the-gate" than would Sen. Obama..........It was reassuring to me to hear that Dr. Bresinski had endorsed Obama...and signed on to advise him in international affairs.

If one sets out to build a "brain trust" of advisers to prepare to govern....... I can't imagine a better place to start than with Dr. Brezinski. Regards..................................................tm

[Lemeritus]

We meet again, Tommy, and again, we agree emphatically.

In 2006, Dr. Brzezenski put forth a profound, in the richest meaning of the word, strategy for withdrawal from Iraq. I've kept it bookmarked even though I think the time to satisfactorily implement it may have passed us by.

http://democracyrising.us/content/view/527/164/

Either/both candidates would do well to seek Brzezensky's counsel.

[TommyMcCarthy]

Many thanks to "Lemeritus" for posting link provided......(I really MUST learn how to do that).........and I urge all to avail themselves of it.

While the time-frame referenced by Dr. Brezinski in the NPR interview has, of course, passed...the core logic of his case is still sound...(Indeed, subsequent events have, if anything, made his argument even MORE pusuasive.)

Of particular note, at least for me, is the Dr.'s reminder that other entities (including our allies, FORMER allies, and, potentially ,...FUTURE allies) also have a stake in a stabilized Iraq, ...and that a SANE U.S. policy would include them in crafting a solution to the current quagmire, and would show a modicum of good faith on the part of U.S. policymakers to an international community understandably skeptical of U.S. motives.

While it has been this sort of "realpolitik" vision that the current administration has been particularly.... (deliberately??) ....BLIND to since the war's inception.....I enjoy (and share) Brezinski's wry willingness to allow the Bushie's the term "Victory" if that is what it takes to get them off the dime in pursuit of his rational strategy.

Brezinski's presence bodes well for an Obama administration's credibility in this area. Just as a matter of pure politics, "Zbig" cannot be credibly depicted as a "cut and run" liberal advocate for "surrender"...no matter HOW many neocons attempt to dance on the head of THAT specious "pin".

As always...............Higest Regards.....................................................tm

[kittyma]

I disagree. I think he should have used Barbara Bush as an example! Eight years as a second lady, 4 as first lady and 8 as first mum. She is obviously exceptionally qualified thanks to her superior experience and I think we should draft her into the presidency and forget about all this voting stuff.

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

yes, I certainly appreciated Barbara's empathy for all of those Katrina victims who arrived in Houston.

[Bocababs]

And Barbara Bush sure knows when the people in New Orleans are better off or not.

[BlueBoomer]

I saw that interview... And the comparisons struck me as absurd as well.

And while he may be brilliant, he came out of a DISASTROUS administration (Carter's).
Madeline Albright is supporting Hillary... I think I respect her judgement more (altho' neither Hillary NOR Obama was my first, second, or third choice).

What a shame the media ignored/buried Biden/Dodd's campaigns.

Oh, well, even HillBama is better than ANY republican administration.

[jdm58]

America's First Ladies have had varying roles as the "woman behind the man" serving in the White House. Mamie Eisenhower was more known as the woman who redecorated the place in the pinks and greens popular in her time, placing many national treasures in storage. She was a product of times that dictated that women stayed at home, served their families, entertained guests, and kept quietly in the background. Not exactly a mold that Senator Clinton would fit.
I would compare Senator Clinton more to Eleanor Roosevelt, who served as her husbands "legs", traveling and meeting with dignitaries when protocol permitted, and whose long record of service both during and after her husbands death is legendary. Jacqueline Kennedy was also a vital First Lady, bringing the White House back to it's more historical condition, getting the artwork and furniture out of mothballs and inviting the public back in, to reintroduce us to the more historical significance of the White House, beyond being just the residence of the President. Mrs. Kennedy's ability to speak other languages came in very handy to the President, who was known to have stated that he wasn't sure who was more popular, he or his wife.
All three First Ladies had another thing in common: All had been cheated on publicly by their presidential spouses while in office. Was their outspoken nature what caused their spouses to look elsewhere for succor to their egos, or was this fact perhaps the spark that led them to form a more vocal and prominent role for themselves, giving them an outlet to express their talents and become successful as individuals in their own rights.

[nkpatel1279]

Eleanor Roosevelt, Jackie Kennedy's husbands- died while in Office.
Roslyn Carters' husband was unsuccessful.
That leaves us.

The thing about Hillary Clinton is that she is not your typical first Lady- She got elected to the US Senate- during the end of her Husband's presidential term. She and her husband could have moved back to Arkansas.

[Steve Clemons - Huffpost Blogger]

See Steve Clemons's Profile

No Good Names -- thanks for the catch. Sloppy slip on my front. Thanks....best, steve clemons

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

no problem, I always enjoy the opportunity to use the "can of vegetables" line against her.

[carsick]

I've thought from the beginning of this race that Sen. Clinton's skills would be put to extraordinary use as the Senate Majority Leader. Now that things are so close that may no longer happen or it could be part of the coming 'compromise.'

[NoGoodNamesLeft]

Of for heaven's sake. When will people learn that Elizabeth Dole's nickname is LIDDY, not LIBBY.

Libby is a can of vegetables. And, although Dole might be accuratley described as about as intellegent as a can of vegetables, it isn't her nickname.

It's Liddy Dole.

[signifyingnothing]

As a side note, Dole makes cans of fruit.

[hopeless277]

If by excel in the Senate you mean naming post offices. Besides, she voted for the invasion of both Iraq and Iran. The LAST thing we need is another person in the WH who needs to prove how tough they are by attacking and murdering innocent citizens of middle easter countries.