When you say you spoke to 3 Clinton Administration officials, and since there were thousands of Clinton Admnistraiton officials that's like asking the receptionist what the CEO was doing behind the scenes on a given day in the past. You were propably talking to 3 people who are seeking a promotion under Obama.
Hillary had MANY questions and reservations about NAFTA including why it was being pushed in the first place. But once it was decided that it was a go, simillar to the way a VP does, she supported it.
However, as a Senator traveling in upstate New Your she saw, first hand, it's effects and became a strong advocate of US Manufacturing. And after running for President got an even broader picture: That NAFTA did help some regions but not others. Nevertheless she has unions that support her BECAUSE OF THE WAY SHE INTENDS TO FIX NAFTA.
She is someone who has shown herself to learns from her mistakes. Which is OBVIOUSLY more than t those who are cutting her down in CASCADES OF ERONEOUSNESS just as they did to GORE!!!!
Meanwhile Obama (who tells at least 2 lies a day) and did business w/the big guy on Trial AFTER he was indigted...we hear not a peep about that! BUT THE REPUBLICAN ATTACK MACHINE IS LICKING ITS CHOPS HOPING THAT THE ATTACKES ON HILLARY WORK NOW...SO THEY CAN GO AFTER OBAMA AS THE NOMINEE.
Do you want to know how McCain beats Hillary in November? In short, the same way George Bush beat Al Gore (minus the Supreme Court coup). As Rolling Stone explained in 2001 :
Last year, a review conducted by two nonpartisan groups, Project for Excellence in Journalism and the Pew Research Center, found that a stunning seventy-six percent of the Gore campaign coverage in early 2000 centered around two negative themes: that he lies and exaggerates, and that he's tarred by scandal. "We call it the metanarrative," says Tom Rosenstiel, director of Project for Excellence in Journalism. "Journalists are looking for a story line, a narrative device, that plays out over weeks and months, and there's nothing wrong with that. The problem is if they let the narrative overwhelm the facts, then it becomes a distorting lens. It can lead journalists to ignore and mischaracterize facts as they try to fit them into the story."For those whose memories of Bush are cloudy pre-9/11 or forget how much the press despised Al Gore prior to his public resurrection as a party elder and environmental evangelist, Google the words "invented the internet" to get an idea of how the zombie lies of media narratives refuse to die. All it takes is a few quotes out of context and a few dashes of hyperbole to turn someone into a "serial fibber" with a "Pinocchio problem".
It's pretty clear that this is the same sort of tactic that would be used to defeat Hillary Clinton in the fall if she were to become the Democratic nominee. Over the past week, she's been contradicted on a number of claims that she uses to bolster her "experience" over her rival. The first being her Ohio primary-motivated insistence that she opposed NAFTA, which Jake Tapper has been debunking at length :
I have now talked to three former Clinton Administration officials whom I trust who tell me that then-First Lady Hillary Clinton opposed the idea of introducing NAFTA before health care, but expressed no reservations in public or private about the substance of NAFTA.For the Clinton campaign, we're not supposed to pay attention to what she did (which, according to her recently released schedules, included a handful of pro-NAFTA meetings) but what she said about NAFTA (but only privately, at least, until it was politically convenient).
Yet the Clinton campaign continues to propagate this myth that she fought NAFTA tooth and nail because she opposed the substance of the bill.The campaign claims over and over that she did not support NAFTA. That may be emotionally and intellectually true -- but actions speak louder than misgivings.
The even bigger, and more embarrassing, fib is Clinton's fictional account of her dangerous flight into Tuzla, Boznia which is becoming her campaign-killing YouTube moment. (via nitpicker)
Clinton's foreign policy credentials have also been questioned recently in regards to her role (or lack therof) in the Northern Ireland peace process :
Mrs Clinton's version of events has been challenged by Peter King, an Ulster Unionist Party negotiator at the Good Friday talks in 1998, who said: "Hillary Clinton was totally invisible at the actual negotiations.These incidents taken individually wouldn't necessarily be enough to derail a campaign, but how they play into the "metanarrative" speaks volumes about how her campaign might fare in the fall. For Gore in 2000, mentioning "Love Canal" and "invented the internet" were all it took to remind voters of the media storyline that Gore was a serial exaggerator. In the months between now and the general election, it's hard to imagine that the same wouldn't happen to Hillary Clinton, with scattered references to "Northern Ireland", "NAFTA", and "Tuzla" making their way into unrelated campaign coverage and subtly undermining her campaign.
"As far as I am concerned, Mrs Clinton was as relevant to peace in Northern Ireland as Tony Blair's wife or the ex-wife of Bertie Ahern [the Irish prime minister]."Lord Trimble of Lisnagarvey, who shared the Nobel Peace Prize with John Hume of the nationalist Social Democratic and Labour Party in 1998, told The Daily Telegraph last week that Mrs Clinton's claims were a "wee bit silly".
This month, Terry McAuliffe, Mrs Clinton's campaign chairman, told CNN: "We would not have peace today had it not for Hillary's hard work in Northern Ireland."
Both Unionist and Nationalist negotiators told this newspaper that while Mrs Clinton's work with women's groups was positive her overall role was peripheral and she played no part in the gruelling negotiations that took years.
In fact, that narrative is already being shaped to a lesser extent as the Obama campaign capitalizes on recent polls showing that a majority of Americans don't believe that Clinton is trustworthy :
This honesty gap that separates Clinton from her two opponents will ultimately end her campaign, either in the primary or general elections. Whether or not any subsequent claims about Clinton are valid would be irrelevant (as Gore could attest) as long as they play into the preconceived notions that people have about the candidate. With a public that already distrusts her, getting frequently caught misspeaking (to use the Clinton campaign's preferred euphemism) only reinforces the media narrative that Hillary Clinton is a liar who will say anything it takes to become president.
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"When you say you spoke to 3 Clinton Administration officials, and since there were thousands of Clinton Admnistraiton officials that's like asking the receptionist what the CEO was doing behind the scenes on a given day in the past. You were propably talking to 3 people who are seeking a promotion under Obama."
First, Greg Saunder did NOT say that he spoke to former Clinton Administration officials, he quoted ABC's Jake Tapper. Don't let your passion for your candidate blind you to facts.
Second, Hillary Clinton said at least THREE times that the plane she was in had to do evasive manoeuvre, that she had to rush from the plane to the armoured vehicle.
Go to www.youtube.com, watch the various videos by various news organizations of her "dangerous" arrival , listen to the pilot that flew here there:
http://www.breitbart.tv/html/68124.html
After you have done that, tell me with a straight face that she is not a liar.
Hillary is indeed the victim here, AND THEREFORE OUR NATION!
of the Republican controlled Media beholden to the Republican Party for for Media Consolidation who consistantly succeed in destroying the Democratic frontrunners threw their own lies.
They did it to Gore ("Too wooden") Dean (boosted, boosted him up and then obsesively knocked him down over nothing for 10 days) Kerry (wrote him off as "too nuanced" blacked out 4 major speeches he gave, and gave the Swiftboat Liars 35 days and billions in free aid time) And Now Hillary who is a ****SAINT**** compared to Public Enemies number 1: The ,Lou Dobbs, Chris Mathews, Tim Russert, and their dime a dozen lowly guests.
The 2 LIES A DAY Obama is running a George Bush style Campaign, using Republican Talking Points from the 90s against Hllary...based on Frank Lunz's book: "It's not what you say but what people hear."
It is Obama who has been playing the Race Card.
And it is because of Obama that the voters of Florida and Michigan are not having revotes.
While Bill Clinton betrayed his wife: niether he nor in PARTICULAR SHE Generally lie.Despite what those who poison the information pipelines critical to an informed electorate would have you believe.
And should OBAMA TV succeed they will destroy Obama if nominated. If you believe that we need a Democrtat in the White House. For heavens sake support Hillary
Each of you that has made the determination that Hillary is a liar, the ultimate fabricator should judge lest ye be judged. Everyone makes mistakes from time to time. Everyone misstates facts on occasion. Everyone has a skeleton in the closet. We all do the best we can for the most part.
Anyone who is so calculating (as so many of you accuse Hillary) would never lie about something that could so easily be proven false. No matter how much you try to dirty up Senator Clinton, the truth is that she has served her community and her country for most of her career. She knows about and confronts the issues that we Americans will be facing over the next several years. If she was doing this for power, money, or prestige, I can think of so many other professions that would be far more lucrative, more fun or fulfilling, and less negative and personally destructive.
This type of talk drives a wedge between the democrats who have been split 50-50 between two candidates and we might not recover from this division in time for November.
I'm puzzled about where Greg Saunders stands. It seems he's calling Hillary Clinton to account; but the quote on Gore:
"For those whose memories of Bush are cloudy pre-9/11 or forget how much the press despised Al Gore prior to his public resurrection as a party elder and environmental evangelist, Google the words "invented the internet" to get an idea of how the zombie lies of media narratives refuse to die,"
Suggests that he thinks HRC is more a victim.
Evgenia Peretz http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2007/10/gore200710?currentPage=1 documented how the narrative on Gore was invented by a media looking for things to distort. Is Saunders saying that if Peretz writes a sequel about the media "Going after Clinton," how would the Tuzla story fit into there?
Certainly, there are many zombie lies of media narrative that work against Clinton; and the Obama supporters should understand that we the Democratic Party have a serious problem; one which WILL bite him once he's the nominee.
All politicians lie and exxagerate, but the Clintons are making it a way of life. I originally supported Hillary but as time wore on it became clear that she and her campaign will do anything, even destroy the Democrats chances of victory in November to be the Nominee. The current smear of Gov. Richardson for going with Obama over Clinton because he honestly believes that Obama will unite the country....Has pushed me away from the Clinton camp for good.
I truly feel that a woman President would be great for the country (as would a Black or other minority) since 43 white men have gotten us in the mess we find ourselves in now. I greatly admire Gov. Richardson for being more interested in Loyalty to our country then to Ms. Clinton's candidacy. I believed he was the best Candidate in the Democratic Primary and too me he has proved it.
Way to go Gov. Richardson. Shame on you James Carville..Time to get your head out of your ass...
My earlier mantra regarding Bush's constructions, justifying our invasion of Iraq.
"When Clinton lied; nobody died!"
'Nuff said about the Clintons and their being truthful.
Absolutely.. Educate yourself, open your mind and think outside the box. Look at the Clinton's for what they are. Power hungry folks who will destroy an American opportunity and our party to get what they want. I am still amazed that she continues to get the votes with the low trustworthy numbers and dislike factor.
I think all the replays of her and Chelsea landing in Bosnia are a plus. It lets me know how much work she did as a First Lady. I don't discount that work.
That's the difference between Hillary and Obama. Hillary represents people who know what it is like to work and Obama represents intellectual snobs.
Hillary is red, white, and blue. Obama can be painted as green (for inexperience), and yellow (for being whimpy and whining), and black (for making us think about race when we don't want to).
Very well spoken, Vsign. For an accurate account read the article in the San Francisco Chronicle on 3-26-08 (Rapaport).
I couldn't agree more. We should wait until you want to think about race.
HRC is home of the Big Whopper lie.
Credibility includes the ability to perceive events, remember and relate the facts, and lack of bias.
She lacks the ability to remember the events such as with her prior pro-NAFTA positions are suspect. This must be the result of present bias and possibly lack of sincerity. But when there are video tapes that totally discredit her sincerity or ability to remember by evidence to the contrary of her experience that no reasonable person could disbelieve, it reminds me of the denials by the Rodney King defendants who had beaten him and denied that they had done so.
Did she tell Bill to lie about Monica for her own personal reasons and ambitions? Has she hurt our country and the Democratic party during Bill's presidency? As in: "never admit it and I will lie for you?"
It is impossible to rehabilitate a witness once there is a total and unequivocal impeachment of her credibility. Politicians are different: Their base wants to believe whatever the candidate tells them. George W. Bush proves this.
there's only one thing wrong with saying that Al Gore said he "invented the internet." it's not true. he never said that. u just picked it up from the right wing garbage collection. so if u don't know the difference between what's true and not true, why should anyone trust you to evaluate anyone else's veracity. something about stones and glass houses comes to mind.
THIS IS A PATTERN OF LYING by BOTH CLINTONS.
Hillary wants to change subject back to Wright due to her own wrongdoing.
She can't win on the issues NOR on experience. She degrades Obama about
his pastor as if Wright's words were Obama's.She lies on her foreign policy prowess of which there is NONE.
If Hillary lies about being under sniper fire,.how can she be trusted?
There should be a microscope on a pattern of lies ie NAFTA, a fairy tale that she had anything to do w/ North Ireland peace, S-CHIP. NO red phone moment existed. She had NO security clearance.
Hillary wants the subject to turn back to Wright's comments because she has neither the experience nor the integrity to win any other way.
If Obama is responsible for his choice to stay in a church, Hillary should be responsible for staying in her embarassing & opportunistic marriage. No one will make this comparison due to fear of the female factor.
GUILT by ASSOCIATION is a dangerous game for Hillary , unless the PRESS REMAINS ASLEEP@ THE SWITCH.
She wants all the credit of being first lady ,but no examination of her real motives in staying w/Bill post IMPEACHMENT.
Maybe both Obama & Clinton chose to keep problematic ties for reasons other than moral.
While the red phone rang, Bill was having sex in the White House, while Hillary "slept".Did she stay for a run for president as a victim?.
Talk about pieces of silver.
It's all fun and games, dissing Hillary, but wait till you get your presidential dose of Obama. How you people can not accept that he is a polictician just like the rest of them is beyond me. When you vote for him, you will get a surprise. I don't think it will be pleasant.
Obama might be like the rest of the politicians but his tales are based in reality. Both Clintons tell tales so grandiose that they appear pathological.
Your not reading all the literature on Obama. He has been an political opportunist and has taken credit for legislation that others sponsored.
You will see in a general election (should he be the nominee) where he has come from and what he has been up to.
Looks like Hillary is willing to do anything possible to get herself out of the negative spotlight:
She has just proven that she is no better than the Sean Hannity's and Pat Buchanan's of this world.
As quoted in her interview with the Pittsurgh tribune today:
"Clinton: Wright 'would not have been my pastor'"
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_558930.html
HILLARY CLINTON IS A CONGENITAL LIAR.....
It's three a.m. and the telephone rings in the White House.
And rings.
And rings.
Hillary doesn't hear it, having just fallen into an exhausted sleep some minutes before, after tossing and turning for hours while she relived, again and again, those tense moments of dodging sniper fire in Bosnia.
Bill might have answered it, but he's slipped the Secret Service and no one seems to know where he is ...
The phone grows silent.
It's a hell of a call, if you care about your country, at all.
Senator Clinton isn't lying. She's creating her own reality. And she's doing it so quickly that by the time one reality has been knocked down, she's created ten more. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
All Power To The Hypno-Toad! http://tinyurl.com/3926p2
Hillary gave an interview in Pittsburgh
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_558930.html
Have a look at Hillary's explanation on Tuzla:
On saying last week that she landed under sniper fire during a trip to Bosnia in 1996, when she was first lady:
"I was sleep-deprived, and I misspoke."
I guess she was also sleep deprived in Waco, Texas on February 29 when she gace the same speech.
Guess it's all those 3 am phone calls that keep her awake.
Yep;)
Forget the fancy meta-narratives, they will nail her on national security. Her Iraq votes make her look weak to both sides. She has nothing to say on the subject. They will walk all over her.
Hillary is red, white and blue. Obama can be painted as green and yellow.
The latest Hillary gaffe about avoiding sniper fire in Bosnia is much much worse than anything Al Gore correctly stated about his role in aiding the development of the internet. The Hillary comments are obviously false. Al Gore's statements were terribly distorted and mis-stated by the media including the so-called liberal media in order to paint Gore as a serial liar believing most Americans would buy this narrative instead of fact-checking the record of what Gore actually said.
In either case the point is well made that Hillary's deliberate inflating of her record will be used against her but whether this would prove fatal against an insane and senile McCain is not certain.
RJ Crane, topplebush.com
AS USUSAL, THE MEDIA IS NIT PICKING, MANY TIMES, MEMORY PLAYS TRICK WITH PEOPLE, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT LANDING UNDER NO FIRE AT YOU??? AS FOR NAFTA, DID YOU EVER REFER TO DAVID GERGEN , WHO IS UNBIASED AND WAS THERE , CHARLIE , AND HE CLAIMS THAT HILLARY VOICED HER PROTEST ABOUT THE NAFTA SITUATION. IT IS ONLY ONE SIDED AND WHO IS JAKE TAPER ANYWAY, JUST ANOTHER "HERRING MAVEN" .????
A memory lapse is thinking something happened on a Tuesday when it really happened on a Thursday - that's a mis-statement. Hillary remembers details of an event that never happened - she simply made it all up and that isn't mis-statement, that's lying. It's also part of an ongoing pattern of lies and distortion from the Clinton campaign, always over-inflating her involvement in anything, always over-estimating her importance. We already have a president who is a serial liar, we don't need another.
Time to face the facts - she doesn't seem to be much in touch with them. This is also a fact, she wouldn't be where she is if it were not for Bill. She's accomplished very little and the experience she is so proud of touting is just another Hillary fabrication.
HILLARY CLINTON IS A HOPELESS CONGENITAL LIAR......
It doesn't matter if you find it trivial or nit picking. What matters is if it takes hold as a narrative as it did against Al Gore in 2000. You could argue that the "Love Canal" and "father of the internet" story lines were nit picking...you can dismiss it as time playing tricks with one's memory...but that is irrelevant. All that matters is what the media says and its consumers accept. The media could portray (1) McCain's senior moments as the onset of dementia, or they can (2) continue with the ridiculous patriotism questions about Obama, or that (3) Hillary is a resume padding liar who will say anything to get elected. Rather than cling to Gergen's NAFTA reflections, do your homework about Hillary taking credit for SCHIP, the Family Leave Act, peace in Northern Ireland, etc. Sleep deprived "misspoke" cannot explain away everything...especially when Terry McCauliffe is doing the "misspoke."
Memory lapses??? Apparently she chronically sufers from them when it comes to that eventful day in Tuzla. She told the same Whopper on February 29 In Waco, Texas.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/25/105346/318/335/483775
David Gergen and the "Good Soldier" defense? Hehehe....She's on the record (on many separate occasions) supporting it. Full Stop.
Typing in all caps is not only annoying it diminishes any point you are trying to emphasize. In the cyber world it is referred to as "shouting."
Oh, god, I can see it now.... I kept my head down as SNIPERS fired away, running to my car (image HIllary kissing little Girl, recieving flowers)....I was shot down over Vietnam and held in the Hanoi Hilton for five years where I was tortured....(image of John McCain's arrival back on US Soil)....
Hillary just sniped herself.
What's stunning about the Tuzla narrative is how politically foolish she was. Here she is presented with a question that undermines the veracity of her story, as told by her companion on the trip. She dismisses the eyewitness account as he is a "comedian". She then weaves this elaborate tale that is compelling and believable, until you see that the truth was so much different. The result is that she comes across as a very imaginative liar unable to recant previous lies, and bound to dig herself deeper and deeper instead of limiting the damage. This trivial but telling incident may finally bring down her already diminished campaign.
Question the news media.
The reason Gore is thought to be a liar is because the press did not research and counter the falsehoods reported by right leaning publications. Instead, large media repeated niche media misquotes until most people thought it to be fact.
Gore did not claim to invent the internet. He claimed, truthfully, that he was instrumental in advocating in Congress for the technology that later became the internet. Vinton Cerf, often called "the father of the Internet," has stated publicly that this is so. Look it up for yourself. Don't take my word for it.
Gore did not claim to have uncovered Love Canal, but to have found it for himself in his search for toxic sights similar to the one inhis home state. This occurred when Gore spoke at Concord High School in New Hampshire on November 30th, 1999
Posted March 24, 2008 | 06:52 PM (EST)