Clinton, Obama Press for Texas Delegates

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KELLEY SHANNON | March 29, 2008 11:20 PM EST | AP

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Rita Stephan, left, who chairs a north Austin precinct, gives instructions during a caucus at the Travis County Democratic convention Saturday, March 29, 2008, in Austin, Texas. Democrats gathered Saturday for another phase of Texas' complex caucus system to decide whether Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton will win more delegates in the state. Other delegates are Gerald Strevig, center, and Esther Garza, right. (AP Photo/Harry Cabluck)

AUSTIN, Texas — Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama scrambled to secure more Texas delegates Saturday as the state pushed to settle the outcome of the March 4 caucus.

Obama led Clinton 56 percent-44 percent in results reported from close to half the conventions held across the state _ the latest stage of a process that prompted frustration and challenges from supporters of both candidates. Obama showed strength later in the count after his rival built a 60-40 edge in Saturday's initial results.

Texas Democrats hold both a presidential primary and caucus. Clinton won the March 4 primary with 51 percent to Obama's 47 percent, earning her 65 national convention delegates to Obama's 61.

The state's caucus began immediately after polls closed primary night and quickly devolved into chaos in many parts of the state after an unprecedented turnout of more than 1 million Democrats. An incomplete and unofficial count by the Texas Democratic Party showed Obama was leading Clinton in caucuses 56 percent to 44 percent on election night.

A total of 67 national convention delegates are ultimately at stake in the Texas caucuses, and party conventions throughout the state Saturday were the latest effort to divvy up the prize. It appeared unlikely the bottom line would be immediately apparent for Obama and Clinton in their drawn-out Texas wrangle.

Because of the huge Democratic turnout in Texas' primary and caucuses, registration took hours Saturday. At large conventions in Houston, Dallas and Austin, arguments erupted and confusion set in as complaints were lodged about the legitimacy of some delegates.

Many of the challenges were brought by Clinton supporters questioning the validity of Obama delegates. The Clinton campaign said it wouldn't lodge any challenges itself but that it was helping supporters who would.

Obama has fared better overall in caucuses this year, winning 13 to Clinton's 3.

He entered Saturday's Texas conventions leading the national race for delegates, 1,623 to 1,499. It will take 2,024 delegates to secure the Democratic nomination, a prize probably to be decided in the end by party figures known as superdelegates.

___

Associated Press writers John Porretto in Houston and Paul Weber in Dallas contributed to this report.


 
 

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- KimberlyKay See Profile I'm a Fan of KimberlyKay

Here are the latest results from the Burnt Orange Report:

Senator Obama leads Senator Clinton 55.79% to 44.21% (a 11.58% spread). 86.86% of the delegates have been awarded as of now. There are still outstanding conventions, but they will only produce 13.14% of the outstanding delegates. This spread will award Senator Obama at least 7 delegates which gives him the victory in the State of Texas. I suppose you could argue that every remaining delegate will go to Senator Clinton, but this is highly unlikely. My projections from election night (primary and caucus) show that Senator Obama should get at least 8% at the caucuses yesterday; he has already outperformed my projections in Houston (Harris), Dallas and Bexar. Senator Clinton did pick up steam in the South of Texas but I thought she would and gave her the whole area in my original projections -- Senator Obama outperformed my dismal assessment there (most of the numbers are in). There is one County that is caucusing today (rather than yesterday).

http://www.burntorangereport.com/

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:47 PM on 03/30/2008
- ObamaSuperDelegate See Profile I'm a Fan of ObamaSuperDelegate

Thank you, this was very helpful!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 PM on 03/30/2008
- eXcommunicate See Profile I'm a Fan of eXcommunicate

Alright - the "Texas-Two-Step" I can full understand. I understand why they do it and I understand the results. So.... why the hell is there a CONVENTION a month later that could change the outcome of the CAUCUS? Isn't this a Texas-Three-Step?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:00 PM on 03/30/2008
- sheperdess See Profile I'm a Fan of sheperdess

Should we be concerned about "Monkey business" on the side of The Clintons...challenging the
"the validity" of Obama delegates??? Nothing is valid or legitmate if it's not leading to their entitlement to the Presidency.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:31 PM on 03/30/2008
- jrterrier See Profile I'm a Fan of jrterrier

wait, how can that be? hillary won the texas primary by more than 100,000 votes. how can he come out of TX with more delegates than she.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:44 PM on 03/30/2008
- LeoMarvin See Profile I'm a Fan of LeoMarvin

Because about a third of the delegates are awarded through caucuses, which Obama won by a wider margin than Hillary won the primary vote.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:02 PM on 03/30/2008
- halyscomet See Profile I'm a Fan of halyscomet

The Primary accounts for only a portion of the delegates, the Caucus the other, thus the "Texas Two-Step". These are combined to declare the winner.

In this case, with over 100K Limbaugh Voters, the Caucus numbers validate what the TRUE vote would have been, minus shenanigans.

Obama will net 7 or more delegates.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:58 PM on 03/30/2008
- jdm58 See Profile I'm a Fan of jdm58

TEXAS TWO STEP = Vote in the primary during the day (or during early voting period). Caucus the night of the election at the PRECINCT you vote in, and then vote for delegates to represent your candidate at the DISTRICT convention. Total numbers of Delegates are awarded based on the voter turnout on the previous state election, and then divided by percentage of caucus turnout for each candidate.
DISTRICT CONVENTION = Number of delegates per precinct have been certified by the district to be accurate. Percentages are drawn again, and numbers downsized accordingly. If the actual numbers do not accurately represent the primary results, "at large" delegates are awarded to the candidates. The delegates chosen to represent their candidate then attend the State Convention in June.
STATE CONVENTION = Delegates are downsized exponentially by voting again, to be sent to the National Convention. Planks for the party platform are also ratified.
All states have this process in some form, to decide who goes to the national convention. Texas is the only one that doubles up the first step, and this is rather ufair, as it eliminates anyone who could only vote absentee or early in the Primary (handicapped, homebound, elderly, or out-of-town students for example), and can not attend the Caucus.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:13 PM on 03/30/2008
- jdm58 See Profile I'm a Fan of jdm58

I was a delegate to the 16th district convention here in Dallas. Although I have voted in every election in Texas since moving here from California in 1993, this was my first "caucus", and subsequent convention. In fact, this was the first election that I even KNEW we had a "Texas two-step". When asked by the Convention Chairperson how many were first time attendees, about 90 percent responded. Although speakers declared "here we are all Democrats", it was apparent that the divide between the two candidates was vast. The majority of attendees did not realize how the system was supposed to work, causing frustration and boredom to get in the way of their voting, especially on issues that were not well explained, beyond "I support Obama!, or I support Hillary!, so therefore agree with me!". The long lines to register (I waited over 1.5 hours to get in, and the event started over an hour late) didn't help. I wondered why the party leaders didn't do a better job preparing their attendees. Our venue was moved from a high school to Southern Methodist University. The irony that our convention was being held on the college campus chosen to house the Bush Presidential Library and Institute was not lost on us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 03/30/2008
- jdm58 See Profile I'm a Fan of jdm58


(cont from above)
I was surprised at the questions asked on the participant forms, and realized that by trying to be "inclusive", the Democratic Party is being extremely partisan. On our delegate cards, we were asked to identify our race, gender, and sexual preference (I was amused that several of the delegates in my precinct had to ask what GLBT was). It was later explained, that after the district caucuses were held, in order to have representation that reflected the voting turn-out for the candidates, "at large" delegates would be chosen, to fairly balance the percentages in attendance at the state convention in June. This would explain why, in our Precinct, although Hillary won the most "Primary" votes, she was awarded no delegates, due to the huge Obama turn-out at the "Caucus" held that evening. In my precinct, we ended up with 2 delegates (Obama) and 2 alternates (Clinton) to be sent to the State Convention in June. Supposedly "at large" delegates will be awarded to more closely resemble the Primary turnout results, but since the "at large" form again asked age, race, gender, sexual preference, and additionally, what work we had done previously for the party I have to wonder on what basis the delegates will be chosen. I turned in my form, but when I asked when I would hear if I had been chosen, I was told that since my "profile" was the most common, that there was probably little chance of being selected.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:36 PM on 03/30/2008
- jdm58 See Profile I'm a Fan of jdm58

(cont)
Apparently, if I was young, and from a racial or sexual preference minority, I had a better chance.
If the Democratic party of Texas is to continue to profile voters and volunteers based on age, race, gender, and sexual orientation, instead of willingness to learn and work, ability to attend the convention (both in time and money- some did not realize the State Convention would be for 3 days, and at their own expense!), and committment to a cohesive and unified party ticket at the end of the process, then I believe it is doomed to continue to fail. These are the very divisive politics that we are accusing the Republicans of playing, and are calling out the candidates on in the press. Racist!" "Sexist!" "Homophobe!" they cry. But do we ask why it is necessary to "identify" in the first place? I resent polls that rely solely on percentages of respondents race, gender, education, pay scale, etc to identify a candidates strength or weakness. Issues are what are important. We are all Americans, at the end of the day, regardless of our backgrounds. I hope that the Presidential primary process is re-evaluated at the end of this season. I especially hope that Texas abandons its "two-step" system. I believe that many people, especially those who were raised to be gender inclusive and color-blind, are becoming alienated by a system that was designed most likely with good intentions, but is ending up being a farce.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:46 PM on 03/30/2008
- karmafriend See Profile I'm a Fan of karmafriend

after texas conventions

1,858 delegates for Obama

and

1,270 for Clinton

wake up, super delegates, and stop the fall of the deomocratic party!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 03/30/2008
- echeola See Profile I'm a Fan of echeola

Really? Can you source this?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:36 PM on 03/30/2008
- sandtats See Profile I'm a Fan of sandtats

http://www.burntorangereport.com/

Burnt Orange Report - Results from County Conventions

TIMESTAMP - 3:18PM, 3/30/08








Clinton Delegates
Obama Delegates
TOTAL

of 7,649
Conventions Reporting

(of 284)

TOTAL
2,944
3,715
6,659
162

PERCENT
44.21%
55.79%
86.86%
57.04%

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:46 PM on 03/30/2008
- utd See Profile I'm a Fan of utd

Those will still need to be pared down at the TX state convention, but ultimately it means Obama won TX bigger than was previously thought is all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 03/30/2008
- Smartey See Profile I'm a Fan of Smartey

Obama has won the caucus, and will ultimately gain more total delegates from Texas than Shrillary. I have been told by my precinct chairman, who has looked at the preliminary tallies from the state.

Sorry, clintonites. Something elde for you to get your hemorroids in an uproar about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:25 PM on 03/30/2008
- JanetBerns See Profile I'm a Fan of JanetBerns

I suppose Obama will just pay them off with special interest money?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004315532_campsupermoney30.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:21 PM on 03/30/2008
- MarkieBee See Profile I'm a Fan of MarkieBee

a little context would be nice Janet, but I realize that is a tall order for most Hillary sock puppets. Obama has donated MORE THAN Hillary because he has more to donate not because of some ethical lapse.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:35 PM on 03/30/2008
- SouthCentralDel See Profile I'm a Fan of SouthCentralDel

Those donations from Obama to other democrats is a good will gesture to help them all in their contests. He is not stingy in helping others. Of course others will try to spin this and say Obama is trying to buy their vote. So typical.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:25 PM on 03/30/2008
- ragtopdodge See Profile I'm a Fan of ragtopdodge

Hmm...noticed "for her Senate re-election, Hillary Clinton received a $4,200 contribution from Obama."

http://www.capitaleye.org/inside.asp?ID=336


Democrats constantly donate to eachother. Is ths new news?

The Seattle Times has become a right-wing hack rag, ever since they endorsed Bush for President.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:33 PM on 03/30/2008
- GLBorchert See Profile I'm a Fan of GLBorchert

I just returned from Texas 12th Senatorial District Convention, one of three in the Fort Worth area. I left elected as an Obama delegate to the state convention.

You read this stuff about caucus problems in Texas, but you have to understand that in our county, for example, there are maybe two full-time Democratic Party employees and fairly skeletal volunteer organizations. The logistics of suddenly dealing with district conventions that have ten times as many participants as two years ago is more than the system can handle.

But to me, even though the caucus and convention process here is messy and stressful, it is very worthwhile. It is democracy in action. It is the voice of the people seeking expression. The people who show up at these caucuses and put up with all of the hassle are people who really care, who really love their country and want to make it better. And, even though there is tremendous passion for Obama and for Clinton among their supporters, getting together in these events does tend to bring us together. We leave these events exhausted, but energized " hoping to not only help put our candidate in the White House but turn Texas blue.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 03/30/2008
- SShaw490 See Profile I'm a Fan of SShaw490

I think the Two Step process is pretty effective, although hard on the nerves. For shallow but wide support, you have a primary with early voting and easy access; to gauge deeper commitment you have a caucus electing delegates to another caucus, electing delegates to yet another caucus. You wind up measuring both width and depth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 03/30/2008
- apresdeluge See Profile I'm a Fan of apresdeluge

So what is wrong with a simple "closed" primary where the Democratic voters decide who the Democratic nominee is? The system in Texas is absolutely crazy and tends to disenfranchise voters because of its complexity. If the Republicans in Texas had developed such a system, Democrats would be crying fowl and rightly so. The "will of the people" is not well served by caucuses and certainly not by the convoluted system in Texas.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 03/30/2008
- BikerJim See Profile I'm a Fan of BikerJim

Does it disenfranchise voters or does it reward activist and strong supporters. I kind of like the concept. This way you measure the voters preference and also measue how active a candidate's supporters are...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:26 PM on 03/30/2008
- KimberlyKay See Profile I'm a Fan of KimberlyKay

Actually, the system does not disenfranchise anybody -- unless you don't want to participate. In Texas, it is against the law to make anyone work who wants to vote (and this includes caucuses). Anybody who wanted to participate on election night could. Anybody who could get their neighbors to elect them as a delegate to yesterday's county conventions could go. And anybody who got elected yesterday by their neighbors gets to go to the State convention. It is called energy for the growth of the Democratic party.

But yes, after all who wants neighbors to meet each other? Who wants neighbors to discuss issues that are important to them and get the Democratic party to listen to their issues by getting proposals passed first locally, then county-wide, then state-wide and finally get them presented at the Democratic convention? Why would we ever want something so democratic? Please think before you type.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:24 PM on 03/30/2008
- Slord See Profile I'm a Fan of Slord

My wife and I were both delegates. We had a good time participating in the process. The pre-convention strategy meeting took an evening and we met our neighbors.

The convention itself took the whole day... but that's one Saturday "blown" participating in a democratic process with the rest of our county. We met a ton of people and had a good time. Overall it was interesting to see the caucus in action.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:33 PM on 03/30/2008
- jsinclair See Profile I'm a Fan of jsinclair

It's true the state systems all seem kind of wacky, even primaries when you look at the different voting machines...ballot designs, etc.

But the IDEA of the caucus is that its actually more "direct, participatory democracy" than trying to fill in the pieces of paper in a primary (we all remember how accurate that was in Florida 2000).

Caucus is supposed to be for those who really care, are knowledgable and get together to discuss and decide which candidate really is best.

I've never been to one, but my friend in MN said its very exciting and interesting. So...I think there are some good points about caucuses that many people are overlooking.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:07 PM on 03/30/2008
- MiddleRoad1 See Profile I'm a Fan of MiddleRoad1

Huh! So Clinton lost this big state after all. There goes another argument. What WILL she come up with next?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 03/30/2008
- AnninCA See Profile I'm a Fan of AnninCA

Claiming victory before the count is in is tacky. But then, you guys have been doing that for weeks.

In the meantime, Hillary Won Texas!

Could be June until Texas validates the delegate count. Happy waiting!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:14 PM on 03/30/2008
- Fitzy See Profile I'm a Fan of Fitzy

AnninCA......You make no sense at all. Do you realize you just poked fun at yourself?
Maybe you don't.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:04 PM on 03/30/2008
- TheRealMacDaddy See Profile I'm a Fan of TheRealMacDaddy

Ain't that what Hillary did on Mar 4? Even before the Polls in Tx closed? We won, we won, we won...LMFAO...NO SHE DIDN'T! So much for the FIREWALL and the Kitchen Sink and the 3:00 Phone Call and all the other BS, you've spouted Annie

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:59 PM on 03/30/2008
- hardsun See Profile I'm a Fan of hardsun

Love the logic :)

AnninCA, you are a TRUE HRC supporter and while I may disagree, I admire your tenacity!!!

Women for Obama

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 03/30/2008
- lisakaz See Profile I'm a Fan of lisakaz

Tenacity isn't it. Wilfully ignorant. She tried to tell me it's nonsense that non-tenured faculty are called "professors" I've attended 3 different universities and have taught at another 5-6 (one is a semi overlap from attendance; taught at 2 campuses, but attended only 1). At any rate, I think I got sufficient experience to know what I am talking about. But not according to her. Is that really tenacity? Maybe in Bu$hspeak.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:42 PM on 03/30/2008
- Mesaywar See Profile I'm a Fan of Mesaywar

With all due respect, I too admire tenacity. However, waging a fight to remain ignorant, and winning, isn't exactly something to admire, is it? But, like i said, I respect the sentiment, and the tact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:01 PM on 03/30/2008
- HaveyouPerspective See Profile I'm a Fan of HaveyouPerspective

Ann, if your bravado wasn't so humorous, it would be downright offensive. At least it has the redeeming quality of bringing your audience laughter.

You do realize that you contradict yourself within a few sentences, don't you?
Or at least obliterate your own argument by your own petard.

The waiting will be plenty happy in the Obama camp as the real winner of Texas is declared. This isn't revisionist history; this is simply correcting the "misstatement" of Clinton in claiming victory.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 03/30/2008
- cinnysmom See Profile I'm a Fan of cinnysmom

so it's ok for you to claim victory but Obama supporters should wait until the final count? WTF !!!! So happy waiting to you!!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:29 PM on 03/30/2008
- GLBorchert See Profile I'm a Fan of GLBorchert

I just returned from Texas 12th Senatorial District Convention, one of three in the Fort Worth area. I left elected as an Obama delegate to the state convention. Yes we can! is now becoming Yes we will!

You read this stuff about caucus problems in Texas, but you have to understand that in our county, for example, there are maybe two full-time Democratic Party employees and fairly skeletal volunteer organizations. The logistics of suddenly dealing with district conventions that have ten times as many participants as two years ago is more than the system can handle.

But to me, even though the caucus and convention process here is messy and stressful, it is very worthwhile. It is democracy in action. It is the voice of the people seeking expression. The people who show up at these caucuses and put up with all of the hassle are people who really care, who really love their country and want to make it better. And, even though there is tremendous passion for Obama and for Clinton among their supporters, getting together in these events does tend to bring us together.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:18 AM on 03/30/2008