All the semantic quibbling about free speech and Air America's purported right to control what its announcers say off the air, overlooks the fact we don't really know if the network and Randi Rhodes had ever agreed her comedy material must be vetted prior to public presentation (not likely), or if there is some sort of a broadly worded morals clause in her contract (more likely, but not necessarily applicable). Therefore, it's apparently unjust for Air America to have suspended Rhodes for any portion of her controversial stand-up act.
All Rhodes did is use harsher language in a nightclub than may be broadcast on the airwaves, to make essentially the same argument she had been making almost daily on her radio show. It's hard to see how ridiculing public figures was part of her job description on one day, and a punishable offense on another. Nonetheless, Air America seems to have taken precisely that position, and as a consequence, Rhodes has chosen to end her association with the network. Her plans and replacement are unknown.
Rhodes made several provocative comments during a March 22 personal appearance in San Francisco sponsored by the Clear Channel radio station that, at the time, carried her show locally. Her references to Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro as "fucking whores," raised the hackles of prissy etiquette guardians who cheered Rhodes's subsequent suspension from Air America, and in some cases, called for her to be fired.
Here at HuffPo, Bill Press declared Rhodes "went over the line," while Earl Ofari Hutchinson wrote she is guilty of "obliterating the line of public decency" and deserves to be "canned" for it. Likewise, Salon's Carol Lloyd labeled Rhodes "misogynistic" for insulting two prominent women as she did, a sentiment echoed by one of the insulted, Ferraro, who whined on Fox News that Rhodes's criticism of her is "sexist."
The outraged carpers don't seem to realize "whore" has several definitions. Clearly, Rhodes used the word not to suggest Ferraro and Clinton are a couple of hookers, but to accuse them of having compromised their principles for personal gain. One can agree or disagree with that assessment, but there is nothing misogynistic about Rhodes expressing her belief, just as there is nothing misandristic about Allison Kilkenny calling John McCain "a big fucking whore" in the exact same gender-neutral way. Perhaps Press, Hutchinson, Lloyd and Ferraro need to consult a dictionary, or in the case of Ferraro -- who thinks her "security" has been threatened - a psychotherapist. In addition to her irrational fear, Ferraro mistakenly believes Rhodes made the offensive remarks "on radio."
Once one grasps the actual meaning and context of her satiric diatribe, the case against Rhodes falls apart, as it can't possibly be beyond the pale for her to make the same observation many other pundits have made. So it's incumbent upon all those who have been clamoring for her comeuppance, to identify exactly what Rhodes' supposed abomination is. Is it swearing in a nightclub? Good heavens, we certainly can't allow that!
Despite the hysterics of self-appointed morality sheriffs, anyone familiar with live comedy knows Rhodes said nothing that would raise an eyebrow on the club circuit. What's truly shocking is the number of "progressives" who assume Rhodes is subject to restrictions that apply to no other comedian, just because she is also a radio host. Who made these hypothetical rules -- and why?
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So if the circumstances were the same and she was hurling the "N" work at Obama you would be comfortable with this and chalk it up to Free Speech? Just trying to nail down the rationale.
I don"t buy your analogy, because I don"t see how the circumstances could possibly be the same. Your hypothetical Obama insult seems to be inherently racist, whereas what Randi said is an opinion about Clinton"s values and loyalties. However you want to interpret any of this, I don"t think any legal speech should be censored. -- Jeff Norman
So I guess what you are responding to is that racism (of which you accuse me) is blatantly wrong (and I believe we would all agree to that) but that sexism is okay because it is delivered as "opinion". Well now that you have made that perfectly clear let's all go back to calling women fucking whores because that is not insulting, just opinion. I asked for your rationale and I got it.
It"s not that I think racism is worse than sexism; it"s that I don"t think what Randi said is sexist. It"s not about it being an opinion; it"s about what her opinion is. She thinks Ferraro and Clinton are political whores who serve the interests of corporate paymasters. Whether she"s right or wrong about that, her belief isn"t sexist.
I accused you of racism?
-- JN
Norman's point would have had more credibility if Rhodes had made it herself. As it is her attack on Clinton and Ferraro served only the purpose of promoting Rhodes as a shock jock political commentator and was not in keeping with the style of network that AAR runs.
It is doubtful that it was in the interest of Obama or that it harmed Clinton. Even for me, who thinks that Ferraro was a fucking whore whose fifteen minutes of fame lasted about thirty minutes too long Rhodes failure to put together some kind of explanation and light apology was disappointing.
I'll try again!
Excellent post. I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a radio talk show host , myself, and you should hear what I say in the bar. These "Failed Hall Monitors" of Amerikan morality can kiss my ass. It is them, and their ilk who have Shanghaied this country and positioned us they way we are, in the world. We need more, and louder, alternative voices both on the internet and on the airwaves. But we had better do it f*ckin' quick, because our window of opportunity is closing quickly. Martial Law is coming. That's right, I said it!! These criminals in the Executive Branch will not go quietly into the night. They want to take us down, on the way.
Now to further make my point. I will be interviewing Eileen Fleming an advocate for the Palestinian people, on my show, Monday April 14th @ Midnight EDST (www.tantalk1340.com).
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
The following Monday night (4/21) she will be in studio with me to interview Mordechai Vanunu, Israeli prisoner and whistle blower (Re; WMD's), on this same program.
I don't consider myself to be anybody special, but I'll be god-damned if I'm going to let them run roughshod over me without saying a word. Join us and pay, the f*ck, attention and educate yourself.
Thanx; Jonathan Sands
People actually tune in to listen to this stuff? Hmm...
Every time a radio talk show host gets canned isn't an occasion for panic.
Randi had jumped the shark.
You have the right to call people "f*cking wh*res" if you like.
But you can't expect everyone to like it or want to keep paying you to talk if that's your choice.
That's not political talk, it's potty-mouth a-holism.
A correction on the johnie2xs's posting. the web address nis (www.tantalk1340.com)
Sorry. I'm my own worst editor.
Excellent post. I couldn't agree with you more. I'm a radio talk show host , myself, and you should hear what I say in the bar. These "Failed Hall Monitors" of Amerikan morality can kiss my ass. It is them, and their ilk who have Shanghaied this country and positioned us they way we are, in the world. We need more, and louder, alternative voices both on the internet and on the airwaves. But we had better do it f*ckin' quick, because our window of opportunity is closing quickly. Martial Law is coming. That's right, I said it!! These criminals in the Executive Branch will not go quietly into the night. They want to take us down, on the way.
Now to further make my point. I will be interviewing Eileen Fleming an advocate for the Palestinian people, on my show, Monday April 14th @ Midnight EDST (www.tantalk134.com).
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
The following Monday night (4/21) she will be in studio with me to interview Mordechai Vanunu, Israeli prisoner and whistle blower (Re; WMD's), on this same program.
I don't consider myself to be anybody special, but I'll be god-damned if I'm going to let them run roughshod over me without saying a word. Join us and pay, the f*ck, attention and educate yourself.
Thanx; Jonathan Sands
All I know is that if Randi was spouting off with that kind of vigor about George Bush, Dick Cheney, or any member of that criminal administration, no one would say anything and this is a non-story.
I don't know Jeff, technically, any employer can suspend any employee, for any reason. They don't tend to do so, since usually there is some sort of protection for most of the reasons.
I happen to think that Randi was correct when she said that the new management of Air America was trying to get rid of her because they are not in agreement with her views about Hillary and Obama.
Air America has a hang up about American puritanism. It inflicts puritan standards upon its listeners & its employees like Jesus Freak broadcasters do. I hope that Randi gets a better paying, regular gig with a non-puritan broadcaster. No, I won't listen to her. I'm a culture vulture & a pseudo-intellectual who listens to classical music 24/7 save for NPR & BBC 5 min bulletins & BBC America's evening news. Talk radio of any sort bores me. However, foul mouthed libertines have a right to free speech despite the views of Air America's puritanical managment. There is no free speech if filthy speech isn't tolerated. Maybe one of the sattelite[sp] or cable only broadcasters will hire Randi.
larry lynch
I just ended my Air America subscription. Cowardice is not liberal.
Give me a break. AA has a BROAD audience...a big tent audience. You know, the kind that liberals are SUPPOSED TO EMBRACE.
AA knows this: NOT everyone thinks Clinton or Ferraro sold out at all. Just because some Obama lovers are playing the purity game, does not mean they get license to be ignorant and spin nastily.
Randi had gone over the top. At least a good part, maybe 50% of the audience happens to like and respect our other candidate. Randi had her own agenda. It was about HER biases. She went over the line while representing a station that is supposed to care about ALL their listeners...,.not just the Obama faction
And yea, we all know "pimp" and "wh***" and "b*t*h" and even the "n******" word have different connotations depending on context and who said them, we also know this....when said in anger and attack mode, most find the words insulting and hurtful, sexist and/or racist.
You Obama folk need to face up to your own hypocrisy. And deal with it. Many, many of us got tired of the left wing playing the role of the right wing in using personal hate and insults as a way to campaign.
Amen. And I mean that in a good way.
You forget Jjc2006, that Ferraro, Clinton, and all the various other surrogates started playing the race cards long before we even believed they would go that far!! Barack is lucky because he is black and where he is today? Ferraro shouted THAT from the rooftops for weeks, till someone finally listened, and then she finally got her 15 minutes of fame.
Oh my god, , I was amazed when it all started!! Remember the Barfenburger fellow, who warmed up Hillary's crowd right after she lost her first primary? He sounded like he had just received a fax from Karl Rove, himself!! That was my first shock as to how Hillary was going to run her campaign. And I used to support her!!! But when she started bragging about John McCain's virile Commander and Chief style, I finally saw through her. And don't get me started on Mark Penn, or the wonderful donations to the Clinton Library from the Saudi Royals!! No. Not fooled anymore by Hillary, her surrogates, and her misspeakin ways. Hillary and her hubbie ARE whores for any who will pay.
Obama is the future, and has a good vision for this country. A country that has been going totally backwards for 7 years now -- blood, torture, wars and the robbing of taxpayer dollars to enrich the cronies of the Bush Administration.
The point is, Randi Rhodes had every right to tell truth to power! In case you haven't noticed, truth telling does not exist on the
Bravo Jeff, I could not have stated Randi's case better, myself!! Oh wait, I have, for the last week on the Randi Rhodes Messageboard. My fingers are practically numb from trying to educate people on the meaning of fucking whore when applied to these two upstanding pillars of our American community.
And Bravo, Randi, for NOT apologizing, separating yourself from the tangle of Hillary Air America, and moving on and up with NovaM! It can't get better than this. AND, you get to return to your family at WJNO! You are officially out of the wilderness now and facing into the light!!! Oh sweet mystery of life, this was a roller coaster ride, but now you have really made it.
Now all I got to say is, where did your website go? It just keeps redirecting to AAR? That truly sucks.
I am a broadcast professional myself. I also support Obama and have enjoyed Randi Rhodes program from well before her appearance on Air America.
I do not believe in censorship and I do not like to see radio hosts risk losing their jobs, especially for something that wasn't even said on-air.
Having said this, I am very disappointed in what Randi chose to say.
Why?
Because this is a golden gift for John McCain. Do Democrats have a death wish? I wonder.
I don't like the DLC or Hillary much either and I really wish Geraldine Ferraro would just shut up.
But this has just widened the rift between Obama and Clinton supporters and has increased intra-party hatred. Is this the way to unite the party? Meanwhile, because so many Dems are focused on hating the candidate they don't support, McCain is gonna be given a free pass all the way to the White House.
Meanwhile, Air America is revealed for the ineffectual network it is. I mean, c'mon, this is the net that thought that Lionel was a better choice to espouse progressive thought than Sam Seder? You're kidding right?
As for Randi. No, she didn't deserve to get suspended, but how does she reach half the Air America audience after using the language she did on Hillary?
Was getting those laughs at a nightclub worth all of this? I'm betting the GOP is loving every minute of it.
http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com
randi was brave. randi told the truth. randi called out the liars. She got fired. That's ok. The truth will win, in the end.
Hillary is a beast. Randi called it right.
And Obama is a panderer. Truth will out.
Bravo, Mr. Norman! Two phenomena creep me out & scare me more than most: 1) humans who can not celebrate the inclusion of fine, Anglo-Saxon punctuations within erudition---as opposted to these coprising the entire vocabulary....and Randi is erudite....and 2) anyone blindly, categorically loyal to anyone or anyTHINGl, i.e., a female whose premise is someone who doesn't sport a human with a uterus must be misogynistic.
Without Randi, Air America has lost the buttress that supported the whole poorly built enterprise. Limburger sings a happy tune.
Doesn't he know that free speech is dead.
Rhodes has a right to free speech in a comedy club, but your attempt to re-characterize her comments under a different "definition" is just silly. Anyway you look at Randi's "provacative" speech, it was offensive and profane. Keep in mind, Democrats are going to need Hillary Clinton in the general election, if not on the ticket, to campaign heavily for Obama. And by the way - profane, offensive speech is not "progressive" by any stretch of the imagination.
But people really seem to be ignoring the obvious. AA is a business. Arguably about one half of its listeners are not supporters of Obama. Many were offended by Rhodes comments. Further many Obama supporters were offended by Rhodes comments. AA had a right to protect its business interests. And Randi has a right to keep on talking. On another network.
Maryinnh, it wasn't just a comedy club performance. It was an Obama event.
http://www.nashvilleistalking.com/node/31505
The event is still posted on Obama's official campaign website. The campaign issued a statement at the top of the page disavowing itself from the event. KKGN deleted their own website's promotion page that was linked from Obama's website. You can follow the link from the Obama campaign website and see it's no longer there. All materials online from KKGN promoting this as an Obama event are mysteriously missing.
Rhodes and KKGN knew the audience was 100% Obama supporters because it was an Obama event. That's why she made the comments and why everyone applauded.
Dear CGrantham --
Please get your facts straight... this was not an Obama event. This was a fundraiser for the progressive radio station (my local station). They sold tickets for $5 a pop. While some folks who do support Obama, did post it on their mybarackobama.com blog , it was not associated with the Obama campaign. Progressives paths cross in many arenas, but that does not mean one progressive supports anothers cause.
That being said, I do agree that her remarks were in very poor taste, and often times I find her coarse and misinformed. However, she was not at an AirAmerica event, Green960 is not an Air America station (it is Clear Channel). She was brought here on Green 960's dime for the fundraiser.
www.green960.com/main.html
I would invite you to take a look for yourself.
Thank you, Jeff -- progressives should get a grip and put this in proper perspective. Air America"s management, and lot of supposed liberals, lack both business sense and vision.
While I understand that Randi Rhode"s crass remarks were a short-term liability for AA, losing her voice is a huge long-term loss to the Progressive Movement.
As the Right Wing well knows but the Left never learns, it takes extreme voices at the end of the spectrum to shift the middle where you want it.
The side that defines "Centrist" is the side that wins. It"s that simple.
Abusive? Randi? Hell, yeah, in terms of language.
But let"s not lose sight of the real abuses, and abusers, she railed against, and the left"s collaboration with them:
Mark Green"s long strange trip from Nader"s Raider to flakking for the Pro-Foreclosure, Pro- Cluster Bomb candidate is just one tragic example. (see the Common Dreams website, Hillary Clinton"s Hawkish Record and Why Pretend Hillary Clinton Is Progressive?)
Funny, aint it? Green entitled his latest book, in 2006, "Losing Our Democracy".
Guess that"s what they mean when they say the one who smelt it, dealt it.
Love & Peace,
Amy Pagnozzi, DailyItch
" Air America"s management, and lot of supposed liberals, lack both business sense and vision. "
I would add lack a spine as well.
Thank you, Jeff for writing about this.
It will be interesting to see how Randi dances around what she said on CNN tonight. She obviously won't be able to repeat it on Larry King, but will need to discuss the varying meanings of "fucking whore" without actually saying "fucking whore."
I'll miss Randi. I hope she makes it back onto a national show, somehow and I wish AAR would give Sam the 3-6 slot permanently, but that enlightened move might be too much to ask, given recent actions.
Sam Seder has earned his place on the 3-6 pm time slot.
Lionel is a bigger joke than Springer was, Thom Hartmann has interesting debates, but probably causes car accidents with his somniferous delivery. Rachel is wonderful, loved her since Unfiltered, all the other people kind of blur together.
Randi was Air America, The Greens are spineless idiots.
Mark Green lives in the pathetic hero worship ghetto that exists between Nader and the Clintons. Good riddance, good luck Randi¦ Love you more!
Exactly spot on, Mr. Norman.
In fact, I think Ms. Rhodes was the victim of some "reverse sexism". If Bill Maher had made these same statements in his stand-up act, no one would have noticed or cared and he would be hosting the next "Real Time" segment with no one batting an eye.
But, how dare, Randi Rhodes, a WOMAN, engage in such "hate speech"? What a CROCK!
And you are also correct in pointing out that this was far more a criticism of Clinton's and Ferraro's political positions and their obvious conflicts of interest rather than any kind of misogynistic personal attack.
The fact is that, ever since Mark Green took over AAR, the criticism of HRC by various hosts, especially Ms. Rhodes, has been looked at askance. There was also a LOT of personal jealousy pervasive at the network over Rhodes' popularity in spite of her spicy, acerbic manner. Basically, they were just looking for a reason to get rid of Rhodes and, finally, they found one.
Good on them. In the meantime, I hope they also enjoy the tanking ratings that are sure to follow on the heels of this farce as Rhodes' loyal audience will now undoubtedly tune AAR out.
they called her words obscene. sounds a little too right-wing for me, thanks. ended my air america subscription and bought one at novaM instead. obscene? we need to conclusively define that word because to me, obscene is rape and torture, not cocky peepee words about a candidate who fancies herself a sacred cow.
Profanity is ignorance.
I appreciate your opinion on whether Randi Rhodes appearance/material was subject to vetting by AAR. The fact that it was sponsored/ promoted by AAR would seem to mandate that station protocol would apply..perhaps not literally as in the "7-words" un-utterable on the airwaves, but in the spirit of it. Although whore is not one, I think most intelligent people understand it's context, whether used against a woman or with Allison Kilkenny's calling McCain "a big fucking whore." Randi could have probably gotten away with any language, had it not been directed at either candidate, especially Hillary Clinton..given Mark Green's influence at AAR.
I don't think it is misogynistic or sexist. I do think it is inappropriate to denigrate either Democratic candidates with such language. If one must attack, do so based on the merit of the issues or anything more substantial than merely "na-na-na" name-calling. As we are all endowed with the right of free speech, it is incumbent on all of us to be responsible with how & for what purpose we use it. Satiric diatribe or not, Randi's intent was clear..I'm just not sure what purpose it served or what purpose is ever served with contemptuous ridicule. I do think that Kilkenny's use against McCain was actually more purposeful in the context with which she expressed it. We should be focused on that rather than maligning either of the Democratic candidates. This is all such a gross distraction.
Wasn't sponsored by AAR. They even admit as much in the last couple press releases.
I believe Air America had every right to suspend her. She was at an AA event and she should have known better. If David Schuster can get suspended from MSNBC for his "pimp" comments about Chelsea Clinton than Rhodes should in kind be suspended for calling Clinton and Ferraro the things she did. If she was doing the Randi Rhodes act in a nightclub then she can say whatever she wants but when you are on the "bosses dime", you have to behave!
Wasn't an AA event. Check it out for yourself:
http://www.green960.com/cc-common/mainheadlines2.html?feed=213008&article=3493425
Posted April 10, 2008 | 03:15 PM (EST)