Finally! MSNBC's Three-Hour Conversation About Race in America

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Huffington Post   |  Rachel Sklar   |   April 12, 2008 12:21 PM


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It was a different sort of doc block last night on MSNBC: First, there was the documentary "Meeting David Wilson," about a young black man, David A. Wilson, whose search for identity led him back through his family tree to a plantation in North Carolina where his ancestors had been slaves — and David B. Wilson, a descendant of the slaveowners who'd owned them. It was an extraordinary and moving documentary, tracing David A's journey to David B's doorstep and the frank, if sometimes uncomfortable exchanges that followed (i.e. "Do you think you should pay me reparations?"). It's thoughtful and moving and works because both David Wilsons are decent, genuine people who seem not only to really want to move the state of race relations ahead in this country, but to be evidence that it's already underway.

The documentary ran from 9 - 10:30 p.m. — but instead of rerunning "Countdown" next, or a documentary reminding you why you should try to stay out of prison, MSNBC instead broadcast a live discussion about the film at Howard University, moderated by Brian Williams with a revolving panel of experts — and for the next 90 minutes, tried to at least begin that conversation about race that people keep talking about. Special guests included radio talk show host Tom Joyner (who has recently been un-Smiley'd); author/academic Michael Eric Dyson, lately very familiar on the pundit circuit; entrepreneur/activist Malaak Compton-Rock, wife of Chris Rock and someone who I hope will become more familiar on the pundit circuit, because she was awesome; the Rev. DeForest Soaries, a prominent religious and political leader and former NJ Secretary of State; activist/writer (and HuffPo blogger!) Kevin Powell; Washington D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier; AWARE founder Tim Wise ("Association for White Anti-Racist Education," if you were wondering), and Boston Herald columnist/"Morning Joe" regular Mike Barnicle, who seemed to be a rather random pick but who raised some good points. The whole thing was fascinating, and pretty frank without seeming to offend anyone (mostly — Howard Professor Greg Carr was singled out by Williams in the audience, and he seemed pretty annoyed that no one from Howard was actually represented on the stage. Hey, if that's the most awkward moment in a 90-minute live discussion about race after a movie about a black man meeting the white descendant of the slaveowners who owned his ancestors, that's pretty good).


There will, no doubt, be disagreement on that and many other points — a blogger who calls herself "The Black Snob" thought the conversation amounted to "an echo chamber of black people and Liberal whites" [saying] 'racism bad'". Said the Snob: "What does that solve? How does that fix health care or education or our mortality rates? What does that accomplish? And I gather very few white Americans even watched the damn thing." Well, she could be right on that point since my God, I have never seen so many black people in commercials on MSNBC before (and not a Liberty Mutual ad to be found, btw). But, well, I'm white and I watched, so who knows.

The Snob has a pretty high standard, which is her right (all things considered, she was much kinder to MSNBC than to CNN's recent "Black in America" coverage, and in particular, T.J. Holmes). Here's her take on how the media's been grappling with these issues of late:

No one seems to want to address the reality that most white people know very little about black people. While some are suspect in their intensions when something vaguely racist is uttered, most are too ignorant about black people to have a full grasp on what is and isn't offensive and are too afraid to ask for fear of being branded a racist.

And here's something funny: I was about to mention a few examples but then wavered, wondering if my mentioning them would mean that...well, you know. But what the hell. The reaction to Geraldine Ferraro comes to mind; the uproar over Bill Cinton's comment about South Carolina and Jesse Jackson; the flap over Joe Biden's "clean and articulate" remark — in each case you saw people falling all over themselves to condemn and renounce and that's the kind of reaction that's going to make people watch the the heck they say.

But — it really does seem like a great time in this country to talk about race (like maybe it wasn't after Katrina? Because that conversation didn't really happen), and if the country is open to having it then the last thing we need right now is to go the safe route of silence. Even The Black Snob agrees with that: "I'm probably asking too much. These are cable news networks. They are trying. So I'll toss them a bone. Yeah, for trying." The network certainly did try, what a "Today" show segment yesterday featuring the Davids Wilson (and "Today" correspondent and former Giant Tiki Barber hosting the documentary), plugs from BriWi on "NBC Nightly News" and on his blog, and a delegation of NBC/MSNBC bigwigs all traveling en masse to D.C. for the occasion.

I don't have the perspective of the Snob, but I can say that I learned from the documentary and the discussion after, and, well, now I'm writing this, which might make someone else check it out. To me, the night seemed to be a great thing for MSNBC/NBC to have done — the whole thing probably cost more than re-running a documentary about a serial killer, and may not score the ratings, but it did move a more important needle. Whether that needle is race relations in this country or just the amount of time cable news channels are willing to devote to it, I think that "trying" is pretty darn good. In any case, it totally replaced "MILF Island" as my favorite thing I have seen on TV this week.

Update: MSNBC put the video of the post-doc discussion online; find them all collected here, including the eye-opening 'doll test' where little black children explain why a white doll is prettier and better than a black doll. Wow.

Related:
Meeting David Wilson [MSNBC]
Racism Review Gives CNN (and TJ Homes) Four Thumbs Down [The Black Snob]

Related in tart media criticism:
Should I Vote With My Vagina or Melanin Content? [Anonymiss]

p.s. I'd tell you when you can catch the replay, but alas I don't see any new listings on MSNBC or on my TV. There are a few videos below from "Meeting David Wilson," including the trailer which asks a question Wilson puts to people on the street, black and white — and the viewer: "What's wrong with black people?" The Black Snob asks a variation of that question, insofar as she wonders what's wrong with black people who aren't Michael Eric Dyson: "MY GOD, must Dyson be on EVERYTHING? I can't escape the man." Ha. He really is rather ubiquitous. We're sort of partial to Marc Lamont Hill, would have loved to have seen him up there, too. Next time!

 
 

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Please read Richard America ["Developing the Afro-American Economy" (1977), "Paying the Social Debt" (1993), and "Lift the Hood" (2008)].

In a recent Harvard Business School Magazine article, America stated that he wants to help decision-makers more fully understand causes of black poverty and underdevelopment in Africa and Afro-Latin world. "I've been working for many years on what is popularly and CARELESSLY known as 'reparations'...But I approach this with realistic expectations as policy analysis, not a cause. I'm attempting to correctly understand chronic racial inequality by putting it in a historical context and quantifying what I term is 'unjust enrichment.' The point is to measure coerced income and wealth transfer and diversion produced first by slavery; then by official segregation; and then by various forms of discrimination in employment, education, and other markets, especially in residential housing, access to business capital, and the like."....."My work goes far beyond what is usually expressed as reparations for slavery. That's because it also includes an ACCOUNTING for the transfer of income and wealth from African-Americans to whites, as a class, that took place during Jim Crow segregation, from 1865 to 1965, and during all forms of racial discrimination from 1609 to 2008."

To add to his many points and perspective, I would add that much too often Blacks are not acknowledged for the many great gifts and advantages that our fore-fathers'/mothers' labor, rape, and brilliance provided toward creating our country's greatness and wealth.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:03 PM on 04/17/2008

Thanks, Rachel. I regret that I rolled my eyes and passed by it on Friday; now I'll need to go back and look at it. Especially knowing that the forum was hosting at HU (but then again, where else would it have been hosted?)

Damn, this makes me wish I was back in college again.

Your slip-in about those bloody prison "documentaries" was right-on. I will be thrilled when MSNBC ups their intelligent quotient by taking off those ridiculous shows.

I could have done without 'blacksnob'. Who cares? It's a self-proclaimed snobby black person who has something to say. Meh.

The doll experiment is heartbreaking. If that part is in the video, I'll probably skip it. Then again, maybe a good cry is warranted and if I'm willing to go there, then I'll watch it. We'll see.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 AM on 04/15/2008

I couldn't follow Dyson either. Or maybe I just checked out after he said something like, "my mom said that when you open your mouth you show your brains", or some such thing. I'm always wary of fast talkers he can't take a breath between sentences. My mom alwas said, "you learn more by listening that you do by talking". Don't think Dyson's mom ever told him that little tidbit.

There are two things that need to happen with respect to race. One is clear, and that is non-blacks need to be educated about their plight and make efforts to right the disadvantages that blacks experience daily.

BUT, the second thing that needs to happen is for blacks to move beyond victimhood. Why? Because when they feel neglected, persecuted, left behind, mistreaded, underappreciated, etc. by whites, then they no longer see ME as a person anymore. They see me as a neglector, persecutor, mistreator, underappreciator, etc. And when they see me that way, they treat me that way. And when they treat me that way, the cycle is perpetuated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 04/14/2008

I'm an American who grew up Drinking at a Black Only water fountain-Bathroom me and my folks used had to be Black Only-Eating out was a joke, had to get take out ,couldn't sit with your family and dine out for the evening unless you where at a Drive Inn that would serve all who came.Grew up watching water hose being turned on women like my grandmother-Dog's biting young black men like myself[SCRAED MY THOSE EVENTS] any srinks in the houseQ. We Black Men have fought in how many confict's involing AmericaQ.Affirmtive Action was the cry during my youth[JOBS] and now there are what 12-20 million here taking jobs away from POOR WHITE MEN WHO DIDN'T FINISH HIGH SCHOOL AND HAVE KNOW SKILL TRAINING[REMMEBER WHITE MEN AND WOMEN SAT IN FRONT OF AMERICANS ON THESE TALK SHOW SAYING THESE ARE THE JOBS AMERICANS WON'T DO they will do them now]] As a Black Man all i here is hate on a daily bases. Imus-Pat Bucannon-Sean Hanity and other asking is a man born to a White mother and Black father is he Black enough. White mother-Black father he is nether White nor Black [BI RACIAL.] So to all of you with hate in your heart for an American who happens to be of one race or another you should join BEN LADEN or the K.K.K because a real American won't harm or hurt a fellow American..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 04/14/2008

Hello, neighbor.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:54 PM on 04/14/2008

"Do you think you owe me reparations?" Fuck NO! Ask for reparations from the fellow Africans that sold you into slavery for pathetic beads.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 04/14/2008

Or before you try to get reparations why don't you try to stop the slavery the still happens in Mauritania.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:27 PM on 04/14/2008

That is wholly ignorant. There are a lot of factors that go into the perpetuity of slavery, not just some "Africans that sold you into slavery."

Do you know that the importing of slaves was abolished in the early 1800's? Most slaves were American born and was kept enslaved.

And...If you watched the segment, the black David agreed that he was NOT owed reparations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 04/14/2008

It would have been better with Cosby on there. No one knew what Dyson was talking about. Except for Mike Barnacle, who briefly challenged....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 AM on 04/14/2008

I don't know what you are talking about!!! You seem to have a gigantic chip on your shoulder!!! I saw the entire program, and I thought it was fantastic. I was spellbound for the film and the live program afterward, and I understood everyone who spoke, including Dr. Dyson!!! This was an experience that used to be found more regularly on TV, in the earlier days of its existence, before the days of the taped "junk" they feed us!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 04/14/2008

I watched the program as well and I thought it had its moments. However, I would have liked if Bill Cosby or someone else was on the show discussing Black people's need for personal accountability. I think lack of personal accountability is our single biggest flaw and the biggest obstacle between us and equality in America. If we worked as hard on our internal issues as we do blaming history and Whites for our social ills, I think we'd be a lot better off.

At the same time, I don't think Whites have any right to tell us how and when we need to take this accountability. All Americans must deal with the consequences of our forefather's actions. I don't like the fact that things are more challenging as a Black person but those challenges aren't enough for me to blame White people for my short comings. White people still benefit from the legalized racism of the 60s and beyond, so they should accept the fact that they are going to have to listen to us complain and feel a little guilty until we figure this thing out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 04/14/2008

What Black people do you know spend time blaming white people for their state of being outside of what whites have actually done. How do we get blamed for personal accountability all the time when whites do not have to account for the laws they passed that denied us education and employment? Did we make the decision to redline our own neighborhoods to prevent economic development and the accumulation of wealth?

Nothing happens, bx, until they recognize our humanity. They have done the things because they have convinced themselves that we are less than human. All of their legislation and social mores stem from their thinking that we are less than they are. Until we get past that hurdle, nothing will ever happen. Their police will continue to harass, brutalize and murder in the streets, they will continue to deny us the things they have decided for themselves are human rights.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:32 PM on 04/14/2008

Well said, bxmask.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:40 PM on 04/14/2008

Maybe high school children need to experience a week devoid of any product that was created by African Americans and see the impact. Children should be taught about the Black Wall Street from the 1920's in Oklahoma and the financial impact that was made and the deterioration of that community due to racism. In other words, it's time to realize that African Americans have always tried to rise in America but America has not always been so appreciative of their accomplishments and now it's time for recognition of a people that are characterized as lazy whiners that are looking for a handout.

Also, at what point do we as Blacks/African Americans institute positive change in our daily lives and break the established routines that denigrate our communities. When do we feel it's time to give back and help the next person or will we continue this Willie Lynch cycle of blatant individualism and self-destruction? Many of us think as individuals and not for the progression of our race. How many of you see an African American/Black that has suffered from bad choices and display a lack of direction and we offer them guidance and/or assistance to help them reach the pinnacle of success? It is time for us to make a commitment to our race.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 04/13/2008

"...it's time to realize that African Americans have always tried to rise in America but America has not always been so appreciative of their accomplishments and now it's time for recognition of a people that are characterized as lazy whiners that are looking for a handout. "

Recognition in the form of what? Most americans already recognize this. Are you waiting for all to recognize it? Because they won't.

The idea of not having any black products for a week...it just strikes me as...I don't what the word is. Blacks make (and have made) a significant and unique contribution to this country. But, so has every other people who have ever come here.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 04/14/2008



"Maybe high school children need to experience a week devoid of any product that was created by African Americans and see the impact."

If you include rap music I'm all for it.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 04/14/2008

I watched the episode and was somewhat disappointed. We have this conversation on an annual basis and I have yet to hear "SOLUTIONS" from either side. Many people are well aware that blatant racism does exist but unfortunately, some in our society cannot comprehend systematic or institutionalized racism. First, can we all agree that the contributions of African Americans need to be introduced in the school curriculums. We are all taught American history but the only portion presented to all Americans concerning African American history is slavery, the Underground Railroad (Harriet Tubman) and Dr. King and Rosa Parks (civil rights movement). Maybe it's time to introduce the achievements! Dr Benjamin Banneker and the Almanac. Dr. Charles Drew and blood plasma and how the American Red Cross still uses this practice today to save lives. Lewis Latimer and his draft of the telephone for Alexander Graham Bell and his improvement of the light bulb for Thomas Edison. Garrett Morgan developed the automatic traffic light and the gas mask which is still used today. African Americans have invented products from the air conditioning unit to the refrigerator & clothes dryer but the contributions are never highlighted and whites/ other minorities are not informed of the African American legacy (with the exception of slavery). Cultural enrichment should be instituted in every level of education to not only introduce children to all aspects of history but to reveal to African American children that they have a rich & valuable legacy in this country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:41 PM on 04/13/2008

What can you expect in a few hours, for a problem that has been with us for hundreds of years?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:33 AM on 04/14/2008

My idea for reparations to attempt to compensate for centuries of slavery is a simple one: Descendants of slaves should be given tax credit for any and all money spent by them for the education of themselves and/or their children.

The worst effect of the legacy of slavery to the descendants is the fact that by law slaves had to be illiterate!! That's held many a family back. Education is the key to advancement and unfairly comparing black progress to the success of immigrants from highly educated cultures reveals ignorance of history!

It's obvious that intelligence is human and color blind.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:52 PM on 04/13/2008

How about the complete dismantling of the African family structure and then the ensuing social structures which required black men to be forced from the heads of their households?? That has probably been more destructive than forbidden literacy.
If you think that the worst thing that happened to slaves was that they worked for free or they didn't get an education than you can't really appreciate how these things continue to impact the black community today which is the real argument for reparations.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:55 AM on 04/14/2008



How about school vouchers so poor children who care about education can go to private schools? It would help the black community tremendously, however the Democrats are against the idea.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:53 AM on 04/14/2008

Nice try, free market mousketeer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:50 AM on 04/14/2008


School vouchers would help poor black people get an education. Why would you be against them?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 AM on 04/14/2008

The talks were interesting and thought-provoking.

That is unless you're a white American liberal who believes that you are thoughtful and open-minded because you have some black people in your life who you actually get along while hating republicans and George Bush.

I have some advice for you though; SIT DOWN SHUT UP AND OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:39 PM on 04/13/2008

The panel show was a total farce. Dyson is unlistenable, proving once again
that academics can also rap. The round faced white guy has something
wrong with his brain particularly when he tries to sound like Dyson.
I now know why people are sick of the subject because you have all
these slick people vying for face time. What you need is more truth
and reality and less correctness. You will never get that on corporate
TV.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 04/13/2008

Agreed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:07 AM on 04/14/2008

"Dyson is unlistenable", is that a word...does he speak too fast for you? Everyone I know wants to talk about this. What is your "truth and reality"? Shouting, spitting words and accusations, maybe a fist fight to really show that you're involved?
There's nothing wrong with displaying civility and manners...that has nothing at all to do with correctness.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:19 PM on 04/13/2008

I manged to watch the entirety of the banal proceedings after the movie. Ugh! There was hardly "conversation" taking place. More pontificating monologue than anything else. It was obvious each panelist had his or her own position on the race "problem" and there was no moving off of it. A mere exchange of set opinions with poorly hidden agenda is not a conversation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 PM on 04/13/2008

that's "managed" to watch...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:52 PM on 04/13/2008

I found the program disappointing as well ... Salvery was one thing ... the century between the Emancipation Proclamation and Civil Rights act was something else again ... and good lord, the last 45 years has been profoundly disappointing ....
or is it impolite to mention THAT? Who is going to be first to point out the Exceptions and the statistical "progress" ... down below in the comments is a lively conversation about "class" which certainly is highly relevant , integral ... the marginalization of the poor verging invisibility ... the homogenization of the better off into generic "consumers" ...

next time, maybe MSNBC can find someone -- anyone -- to confront about the last 50 years ... and the stagnation of the urban and rural poor of all colors ... and the bizarre apparently self-defeating transformation of black urban culture ... and the prison industrial complex that would rather pay big money to warehouse a new convict class ... rather than even offer or attempt to offer transformation, education and job training ... and meaningful after-incarceration parole.

yes, let's talk about that ....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:43 PM on 04/13/2008

Let me give you a small example of the "prison industrial complex", and it's small economic effects. There are small commercial furniture makers - the suppliers of wall lockers, furniture for business environment, etc., that are taking huge profit losses - because instead of costs associated with labor/insurance/shipping, that brings fair competition between private businesses, are being "undercut" by the prisons use of "captive labor" to make same products. 2/3s of the problem facing normal business is a non-issue, with the prison industry.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:45 PM on 04/13/2008

Lets talk about the economic terrorism practiced against Black communities. Banks and insurance companies redlined such neighborhoods. Do you know what that means? No loans or insurance to residents of such neighborhoods.
Figure the rest out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 04/13/2008

I don't think MSNBC gave this the promotion they should have. I caught it entirely by accident.

Both Davids showed so much courage. The black David's was clear - his family and friends talked about why they would not make the trip. But we didn't see the disapproval that white David I'm sure has experienced from other whites. It would not surprise me if his BBQ restaurant got burned down or if a lot of people from his town stopped going there. Believe me, he's going to pay a price with some people.

But he did what was right and whites in particular need to see what that looks like. There's sure no shortage of video available to show what whites NOT doing the right thing looks like.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:20 PM on 04/13/2008

Another WOW. You sure do make alot of assumptions about white folks. If you want to know why a chasm exists between blacks and whites, look inward. And just for good measure, try this on for size: "There's sure no shortage of video available to show what blacks NOT doing the right thing looks like."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:29 PM on 04/13/2008

The evil of slavery was one that infected other "civilized" nations in addition to the United States. Most of these nations renounced slavery before the United States did. We waged a very violent civil war that encompassed the slave question as only one component of that war. States Rights, trade and industrialization also played a part. The question of slavery alone was not the single cause for the Civil War and its abolishment of slavery only a portion of the "spoils