Dean's Waffling Over FL Delegates Frustrating Key Voters

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Posted April 13, 2008 | 10:46 PM (EST)



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MIAMI-- Despite Democratic National Committee chief Howard Dean and Congressional representatives' pledge that a Sunshine State delegation will be seated at the Denver convention in August, there is still whimpering that no specific details are forthcoming from Washington or Tallahassee, no hotel space designated, and no verdict as to whether results of the Jan. 29 primary will be used to ratify the delegates.

"If the DNC is waiting until June -- when all the primaries end -- to announce what happens to Florida, it will put the party in a decrepit state for November," said a delegate who asked that his name be confidential.

The controversy -- which has been boiling for months -- is all about the DNC's threat not to count Florida's primary vote in January which set a record 1.7 million votes cast, with Sen. Hillary Clinton 17 percentage points ahead of Sen, Barack Obama. Clinton obviously wants the entire 211 delegates seated, while Obama has said -- because Florida violated party rules with an early primary -- it should be punished.

In late March, however, Dean and Florida's Congressional leadership held a highly visible press briefing about the delegate hullabaloo -- with TV cameras whirling on the Capitol's steps -- announcing that there would be seats for the state in Denver Aug. 25-28; that, indeed, a hotel had been "set aside" for the Floridians, and that "everything" would be settled.

To this date, though and with primaries in Pennsylvania, Indiana, North Carolina and other states still on the horizon, there has been no public statement on if and how the situation has been resolved nor which hotel space has been reserved. Some delegate-elects are annoyed they cannot even make a hotel reservation and/or whether they should even make flight plans to the Mile High City.

"This is more frustrating every day that passes," said Dean Trantalis of Fort Lauderdale, already elected as an alternate delegate and eying full delegate status in the final round of selection on May 17.

The DNC is getting the bulk of the blame, but state Democratic officials led by party chair Karen Thurman are coming under fire, as well.

"I just don't think our state party officials get it," said Monroe County State Committeeman George Maurer of Key West, who put most of the blame on the "deficient" action of the Democratic headquarters in Tallahassee for having such an early primary in defiance of party rules.

Despite the criticism, party activists are still wending their way to choose all the delegates to send to Denver. In addition to the Superdelegates and those chosen March 1 in Congressional districts, the party chose 24 more delegates in Orlando in April (14 for Clinton and 10 for Obama). A final round of caucusing takes place in Tampa on May 17, which will ensure all groups are represented -- including women, men, seniors, minorities, gays, disabled -- and round out the full 211-body delegation and alternates. All of the potential delegates selected are based proportionately on results of the disputed January primary.

"We should have a full delegation at the convention," said Ann Zucker, President of the Democratic clubs of Broward County and a delegate-elect. Zucker said she won't book a flight to Denver until the delegate status and hotel designation are confirmed. Zucker, a teacher, called the current stalemate "this childish situation."

Party leadership is reported still to be nervous about what is being called the "Florida Boondoggle" and want to find a solution to seating the State's delegates -- a powerhouse number as the primary season dwindles down. The widely circulated communiqué on April 2nd, in which Dean and Congressional leaders meant to allay fears that Florida would be shut out, put the delegate seating status on the shoulders of Obama and Clinton. The party, at that time, said that " whatever the solution, it must have the support of both campaigns."

Since then, local party leaders say they have had no further communication as to the delegate strength, recognition of the elected delegates, nor where they will be staying in Denver.

"They are even refusing to give us the name of a hotel where we can stay. How juvenile is this?" said one potential delegate.

In fairness, not everyone is frustrated. Percy Lee Johnson, of Fort Lauderdale, a committed delegate, says the fuss is much to do about nothing. "There's too much rushing to judgment. Let things take their course."

State party leaders and the DNC, however, have been under tremendous pressure to solve the problem now or face the reality that it is playing into the hands of the Republicans and possibly paving the way for a GOP victory in November. Disappointed voters may become disaffected and stay away from the polls in droves. Florida -- the fourth largest state in the nation -- has 27 electoral votes and is considered a swing state.

"We know we will be seated," said Democratic National Committeewoman and superdelegate
Diane Glasser, of Tamarac. "But people want to know the details and are anxious."

There is still some face-saving speculation -- authorized under party rules -- which would withhold one half of the delegates when a state (like Florida or Michigan) holds a primary earlier than allowed by the party. Florida superdelegate John Ausman of Tallahassee, a DNC member, has suggested seating all 211 Florida delegates and giving each one-half vote (instead of a full vote). However, that proposal also is getting a thumbs-down by both Obama and Clinton supporters.

Supporters of Sen. Hillary Clinton -- who handily won the Florida primary in January -- have been asking that all delegates be given their rightful full vote. Supporters of Sen. Obama have said "no" -- that Florida broke party rules, leading the campaign to not fully run in the state and so the vote should not count.

Republican strategists have been saying quietly (for now) that the delegate controversy has been a blessing for their nominee-in-waiting Sen. John McCain and would likely be a campaign issue for the GOP in November. "Vote the GOP. We care about your votes!"

There have been several rallies and a petition drive in Southeast Florida to validate the January primary. At the same time, some delegates say they will take the situation all the way to a convention "for a floor fight, if necessary, to get us our fair representation."

Justin Flippen, a city commission candidate and president of the Dolphin Democrats,
headquartered in Broward (Wilton Manors) , the states' most Democratic county, has said a decision to ignore Florida's electorate would be "unthinkable."

Michigan has a similar problem (it, too, had an earlier than mandated primary), but the Florida controversy seems to be getting most of the headlines, fueled by angry constituents.

If the candidates would agree to the half-vote per delegate proposal, insiders say Clinton would get an edge of about 19 first-ballot committed delegates, based on her lopsided victory in the January primary. There are also 25 Florida superdelegates, though, out of some 800 party insiders nationally, and most believe Clinton has an edge there. Consensus is that the half-vote solution would have little effect on the delegate count nationally (even if accepted by Obama and Clinton, an unlikely scenario).

If Florida's vote was counted, party leaders, pundits and news people would find themselves doing "new math." With Florida's delegates, there would be 2,235 primary- or caucus-won votes on the first ballot in Denver (not the famous 2,024 currently being touted). And, that doesn't even include Michigan. And what about those 25 superdelegate party leaders?

It may be frustrating. It may be anger-inciting. But, it certainly is interesting!

 
 

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I just watched the you tube that had Obama saying that he would support a re-do in Michigan if it could be in a way that would let him campaign.
As a person that was in Lansing both days that our Senate leadership tried to broker the Re-Do I witnessed Obama's two co chairs of his Michigan campaign Hunter and Thomas, both would not agree to a Re-Do.
These two guys are from Detroit and are State Senators.

The way it worked in Lansing that day was both Clinton and Obama's camp had to agree to the Re-Do. Obama would not agree ,so the re-do was dead. Obama says one thing and does another.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 04/16/2008

In America we let the people vote.I am appalled by the comments saying that Mi.And Fl. voters should not cry and just take the punishment.
The voters in these two states had nothing to do with moving the primary date.
So let the voters in these two states vote in a Re-Do primary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:13 PM on 04/16/2008

Politics make strange....

I recall that in 2000 - it was the GOP who trumpeted "you can't change the rules in the middle of a game" argument over the Dems' "count every vote" mantra.

A lot has changed in 8 years.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:46 PM on 04/15/2008

Why are so many people acting like spoiled little children about all of this. I suppose you just need someone to blame right???? Well, guess what there is no one to blame on this one except the stupidity of the states that broke the rules. RULES ARE RULES Everyone is in a panic and in the end the states will be seated at the convention.

Try to act like adults, please.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:01 AM on 04/15/2008

I live in Michigan,my vote has been taken away by a short sighted DNC and Howard Dean.
I have been following this possibility of a Re-Do in Michigan .

I went to Lansing and worked with the Leader ship to work out a Re-Do.
Bishop the Leader of the Senate in Michigan tried to broker this Re-Do.

Obama's two co.chairmen of his Michigan campaigns are Hunter and Thomas.both are State senators.
Both are black senators from Detroit.

These two throw a monkey wrench in every proposal put forth for the Re-Do.
Obama and his supporter stopped the Re-Do in Michigan.

Obama tells the world that his name was not on the Ballot in Michigan
But what he fails to tell the world is that he signed an affidavit to remove his name from Our states ballot..

Obama is anti voter,anti democracy.
I have nothing but antipathy for Obama .

Having no say in who will be the next President of the United States words can not express my disdain for Obama.
Obama is unfit to be elected Dog Catcher.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:04 AM on 04/15/2008

"Both are black senators from Detroit." Good grief. What the hell does that mean? What is that information relevant to?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:26 PM on 04/15/2008

What it means is 90% of Black voters are voting for Obama and for two Black Senators from Michigan and both of these Senators are the co-chair of Obama's campaign .
These two have worked over time to stop the re-do in
Mi.
This is nothing short of Racism. You can say it any way you want but it still is racist!
Let's not sugar coat this .

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:20 PM on 04/16/2008

"Both are black senators from Detroit.....What the hell does that mean? What is that information relevant to?"

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what he is trying to illustrate.
He thinks they are supporting Obama because he is black.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:02 PM on 04/15/2008

yes, he signed the affidavit to have his name removed as he was requested to do by the DNC. The candidates had to pledge not to campaign in the state! He played by the rules, she did not. Now he is to be punshed for that? Nice way to show the world the way we run fair elections.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 04/15/2008

He should have thought about it before being such a weak follower.
Those DNC "rules" only hurt the individual voters.

It is a stupid rule and GOOD FOR CLINTON recognizing that. If the DNC wants to punish someone, punish the pleebs that set the early date, NOT THE VOTERS.

And too bad for Obama, not being strong enough to cut through the crap and support the VOTERS!

What kind of a weak wishy washy pansy leader would he make if he stood a chance to win? A real weak push-over. Not POTUS material.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:06 PM on 04/15/2008

But what he fails to tell the world is that he signed an affidavit to remove his name from Our states ballot..

As was requested by the DNC and also signed by Hillary and not honored. She sees nothing wrong with going back on her word in Fla and Mich. What does she think pledge means?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 AM on 04/15/2008

If Howard Dean is in Obama's corner, or if he's not, he's destroying the Democratic chances by not seating the Florida and Michigan delegates according to their states votes. Or revoting!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 AM on 04/15/2008

I don't understand why Obama supporters find it so easy to just toss out the states of Florida and Michigan. It is suicidal. These states are more important than who wins the nomination.

Disenfranchising them may sound like a good strategy for holding onto the nomination, but it is a lousy strategy for winning the general election.

Short sighted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:14 AM on 04/15/2008

The way I understand it, and correct me if I'm wrong, the DNC already made it clear to MI and FL that the current situation, where their votes don't count, would happen if they ran their primaries before super tuesday. They did it anyway and got punished for that.
The reason why the DNC doesn't move now, fully knowing that it might have bad repercussions on the party, is because re-doing the votes can be a complete nightmare in terms of checking which individuals can or can no longer vote in the Dem primaries, and the situation is such that if it is not handled properly, lawsuits will fly. That's on one hand. On the other hand, there is the issue of keeping the candidates on an equal footing. Hillary and Obama both signed a pledge (that's verifiable) not to campaign in MI or FL because the those two states broke the rules. Hillary broke her pledge, Obama respected his. Now that she's behind, her campaign goes around insinuating that the votes should be counted. She sounds to me like the kid that wants to reinvent the rules of the game when her team loses according to the current rules. And she pressures the DNC making it look like the Democratic party and Obama are the devil for not letting her win there.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:16 PM on 04/15/2008

Perhaps if the Democrats had gotten this fired up during their last state election, they would have held the majority in the state legislature. This may have prevented the moving up of their presidential primary.

At the very least, the state dems could have petitioned the DNC by the appropriate date to get the OK to have it moved up.

Where was all this energy then?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 PM on 04/14/2008

Who is the most concerned about Florida and Michigan delegates? Not Obama, as he has already lead over Hillary in delegate count so far.Definitely not Dean, as the nomination process can not be foiled whether Florida and Michigan are seated or not during convention. Once the nomination is done Dean would consider his job done. The one most concerned is Hillary, as her chances of being nominated are less than minimal without Delegatee from those states. As a consequence, If obama is nominated he can not count on Florida and Michigan during general election because of his lack of interest in those states during the pimary season. In the same token Hillary will capture those states with maximum turn out.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 04/14/2008

I don't know but I feel the article wants to pin the MI and FL flaps on Obama. The guy could have broken his pledge like Hillary and campaign in those states. I bet if he did, she would have less than a 17 points lead. If Obama was given enough time to campaign there and make his case, then it would be fair to recount the votes in MI and FL.
Hillary is playing an opportunistic political game by pretending to advocate MI and FL voters, who willingly broke the party's rules out of vanity, because the polls in these area are in her favor. What she's doing is legal and has the face of justice, but the intent is dirty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:26 PM on 04/15/2008

Obama was the ONLY candidate to campaing in FL.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 04/15/2008

I hate to say it but I think it's going to go all the way to Denver. Half the party is going to be pisssed no matter what the outcome. Dean and the DNC are going to get their butts handed to them here (Denver) and when McCain wins the DNC will become a white elephant. I can't think of a better time for a "real" third party movement. Only "we" could have screwed up an election handed to us on a sliver platter. I'm sick of it all, and I'm a delegate!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 04/14/2008

This wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for Hillary. She thought she would have this thing wrapped up and done with. Only we found a more trustworthy candidate in Obama. Hillary will destroy this party, no matter what it takes. People in Fl. and Michigan knew the rules. Hillary wanted this so bad, she wanted them changed. I for one will leave my party if this happens. I will not vote again for any party. Rules are rules and they shouldn't be broken for Hillary or anyone else. By the way, I'm 67 years old and never missed an election for the Democrat party.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:49 PM on 04/14/2008

I will be right behind you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:53 AM on 04/15/2008

Me three!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:28 AM on 04/15/2008

.
Why is none of the anger focused at the states that chose to ignore the rules ?
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:17 PM on 04/14/2008

DEAN NEEDS TO STEP DOWN!!! THEY SAY HILLARY SHOULD, BUT DEAN HAS CAUSED THIS MESS NOT HER!!! I HOPE ALL YOU READ THE NEWS TODAY; I GUESS OBAMA'S TRIP TO KENYA HELPED HIS COUSIN AFTER ALL! RAILA ODINGA WILL WORK BESIDE MWAI KIBAKI AS PRIME MINISTER IN KENYA!! THE DEAL WAS MADE SO THAT THE KILLINGS WOULD STOP! (HE IS A JIAHAD) THE WAR HAS JUST BEGONE! DID BARACK OBAMAS TRIP TO KENYA HELP PUT HIM IN OFFICE!?!
.THE PRESEDENT AND ODINGA HATE EACH OTHER, SO YOU KNOW WHERE THIS IS GOING DON'T YOU? AND NOW IT BEGINS. OBAMA WILL RULE THE WORLD WON'T HE?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:14 PM on 04/14/2008

Jabber2, you're freaking out and you're hurting my ears.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 AM on 04/15/2008

.
The states caused the problen, not the Chairman of the DNC.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 PM on 04/14/2008

Nor did the individual voters.
It is wrong to punish the voters for something that a few organizers did.

punish the party organizers.

Taking the vote away from the people is NOT democratic.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 04/15/2008

This is all Deans fault and lack of vision. You cannot have a wedding without the bride and the groom. Get Florida delegates seated.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:22 PM on 04/14/2008

This is not Dean's fault. Nice try!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 PM on 04/14/2008

.
This is all the states' fault.
.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:19 PM on 04/14/2008

No it ain't! It's Hillary clilntons fault for fanning the flames of hate about this! It would have died down months ago if it wasn't for her trying to tear the demacratic party apart! At least put the blame where it belongs an I hope dean gives her the pink slip for causeing this up heavel! She don't givre a dam who she hurts as long as she wins! She needs florida and MI to win----------So to hell with the Dem's! She threw us all under the bus, and kept this alive to destroy us all because Howard Dean and others wouldn't give Miss little drunk clinton her own way--------pure and simple!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:41 PM on 04/14/2008

"Hillary clilntons fault "

You have to be kidding!

The voters are sick that their votes don't count.
Hillary doesn't have to do anything to make this an issue. It is a serious issue whether or not you think so. And to blame the Clintons is very republican of you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 PM on 04/15/2008

"It would have died down months ago"

Spoken like someone who had his vote counted. Sorry, those of us who have been tossed aside are not goin got let this "die down".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:46 PM on 04/15/2008

Florida Democrats caught with hand in the cookie jar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs-SAYaJKN4

"In the Clinton campaigns push to blame the disenfranchisement of Florida democrats on Obama they continue to express their willingness to LIE about the facts.

The truth is that the Florida democrats did not attempt to fight the Republicans on moving up the date. In fact they like Michigan wanted to have their primary early and were willing to gamble whether or not the DNC would follow through on not seating their delegates.

Their gamble and unwillingness to follow the rules and now Hillary Clinton's refusal to follow the rules that she signed off on is the cause of all these headaches."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 PM on 04/14/2008

Seriously and sincerely, Florida and Michigan Hillary voters claiming that "their votes deserve to be counted" need to shut up with that pathetic talking point meme.

Your state's Democratic committees decided that they were going to violate the DNC primary schedule because they wanted to vote early so as to have a bigger impact on the nomination process than in past years.
They were warned in advance that the result would be that their delegations wouldn't be seated, but they went ahead and did it anyway, with the Republicans cheering them on. Blame them for their ego and stupidity

The DNC informed them and the public that their votes wouldn't count and all the candidates agreed not to campaign, including Clinton who later even said in a press conference that the votes wouldn't count.

In Michigan, Oabam's name wasn't even on the ballot, so there's no way you can call a race with only 1 candidate "fair".

Many people stayed home or didn't register. Republicans and independents who would have voted for Barack stayed home or voted for other, less heinous Republican candidates.

So those votes are unredoable. And those voters are a large part of Barack's voter constituency, so it's patently unfair to him.

No, Florida and Michigan need to be punished for violating the rules. You'd expect the same fairness to be applied to you.

Blame your state DNC committee and demand their heads on a platter, but don't blame Barack for playing by the rules.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:02 PM on 04/14/2008

"Seriously and sincerely, Florida and Michigan Hillary voters claiming that "their votes deserve to be counted" need to shut up with that pathetic talking point meme"

Are you really Bill O'Reilly, Mr LawOfAttraction???

"those voters are a large part of Barack's voter constituency"

No they are not, but we'll never find out for sure, because Mr. Obama will not allow the votes to be counted.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:20 PM on 04/15/2008

right on