Clinton supporters say the darndest things.
Here's Sen. Evan Bayh, commenting on the political firestorm surrounding Barack Obama's remarks -- broken here on HuffPost's OffTheBus -- about economically-depressed small town voters: "The far right wing has a very good track record of using things like this relentlessly against our candidates, whether it's Al Gore or John Kerry. I'm afraid this is the kind of fodder they might use to harm him."
They? They? It's not the far right wing relentlessly using these comments for political gain, Senator. It's your candidate, Hillary Clinton, adopting the frames, lies, stereotypes and destructive clichés long embraced by the likes of Lee Atwater and Karl Rove. She has clearly decided that the road to victory runs through scorched earth.
The question is, if she succeeds, what kind of Party will she be left to lead? She's burning down the village to save it -- or to prove that she would make the best fire chief. But the village won't be saved; only one house will be left standing. A house with room for just two occupants. Hill and Bill.
Clinton's cynical distortion of Obama's remarks is in keeping with her campaign's modus operandi. On the foreign policy front, we've been fed a steady diet of her RNC-patented attacks: No Democrat can be trusted with national security -- except her. Obama hasn't crossed the threshold to be commander-in-chief. Etc.
Now she's turned to the domestic policy section of the RNC playbook, twisting Obama's words in a way that confirms every right-wing demagogic caricature of her own Party.
Yes, as Obama himself admits, he certainly could have chosen his words more artfully. Perhaps he should have borrowed Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign riff about "economically insecure white people who are scared to death." Maybe "scared to death" is less "elitist" than "bitter." But telling the truth, however inartfully, makes you "out of touch"? Give. Me. A. Break.
It has been an article of faith in the Democratic Party over the last twenty years that when small town, working class whites vote for Republicans they're voting against their economic self-interest. And why do they do that? Because every four years the Republican Party comes into those small towns and, to distract folks from the worsening economic situation, trots out a bunch of divisive, hot button social issues: "Let's not talk about why you don't have a job, can't afford health care, or can't send your kids to college; let's talk about gay marriage, school prayer, illegal immigration, and flag burning amendments." And Hillary is following the blueprint.
John McCain may as well take the next six months off, raise some money, maybe take a vacation -- because Hillary Clinton is out there doing his work for him.
This weekend she tried to paint herself as a good old boy, the kind of gal you'd want to have a beer with -- not like that "elitist" Barack Obama: "You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl." After she said this, she took a shot of whiskey. What's next, ads of Obama windsurfing? At 3 a.m.
But before Hillary Oakley runs out and bags her a few more ducks, Andrew Sullivan points out that of the top ten gun-owning states in the country, Obama has won six -- Hillary has won one. Cling to that.
But, of course, this isn't about guns or religion or fear of foreigners. It's about, as David Axelrod says, the (pardon the expression) bitterness and mistrust that stem from voters being "tired of politicians who come around at election time and express their solicitude as part of a tactic and don't follow through on it."
Jumping on the GOP talking points bandwagon, Clinton's new Mark Penn, Geoff Garin said: "These are the kinds of attitudes that have created a gulf between Democrats and lots of small-town and heartland voters that we've been working very, very hard to bridge." Karl Rove, who has devoted his life to making people believe that such a gulf exists, couldn't have scripted it better himself.
If Clinton's Rovian stoop-to-anything tactics succeed -- not at beating Obama but at making him an easier target for McCain -- the price will be paid by the very small-town Americans she is now pandering to. Americans already banished to economic oblivion by the same cynical tactics she's employing will be rewarded with four more years of downward economic mobility.
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If the Democrats don"t take the Whitehouse this year both Bill and Hillary will find people won"t forget. There will be a political price to pay for Hillary and Bill will not find as many ready to pay big bucks for his speeches.
You are blaming the Clinton's if Obama is not elected?
Isn't he responsible for ANYTHING?
Apparently Obama is helping McCain today. He says Clinton, McCain and Obama would all make good presidents.
That's better than saying that your Republican general election opponent would make a better president - more experience, loves America more - than your Democratic primary opponent, as both Bill and Hillary did! At least Senator Obama has the character, confidence and class to afford Senator Clinton the respect, as a fellow Democrat, that she has not afforded him ... except when she was pressed to say, "Yes! Yes! Yes!" at the debate.
You have not accurately quoted the Clintons, which is not a surprise. No Obama supporter seems to be able to accurately and honestly share a quote from either of the Clintons.
Did Hillary Clinton say that both she and John McCain are experienced, pointedly omitting Senator Obama from her statement? Yes
.
Did President Clinton suggest, at a Clinton rally, that we need a president who "loves America, pointedly implying that Senator Obama does not? Yes.
Did Hillary Clinton say, "Yes! Yes! Yes!" at the debate, after being asked for a second or third time if Senator Obama can win in the general election? Yes.
Where have I misquoted or inaccurately described their statements? These statements were shown (video) and discussed on the news, and even then, they were seen as fodder Senator Clinton was giving to the Republicans to be used against Senator Obama if he is the Democratic nominee. My post is both accurate and honest ... even though I AM an Obama supporter!
oh--
Another non issue from the Obama crowd. You can dish it out for months at a time, but you can't take it.
Back in the real world, we're just looking for knowledge and achievement.
Obama was AWOL in both Senate seats. And he has a shakey grasp of reality. His 'new politics' are old liberal cliches like campaign finance reform, Clinton retreads like healthcare and bipartisanship, which he's doing his best to ruin, and bizaare fantasies like converting the red Sates with Wright and Bittergate.
The Clintons, meanwhile, reversed damages of three republican admins, turned deficit into surplus, created a vast economic boom, and improved nearly every statistic in the book.
But don't let yourselves be bothered by policy debate and adult conversation. Quick. Tune into MSNBC for the latest shallow insults. There's probably something there you can use.
Hillary and Barack went negative long ago when Michelle and Barack both began taking side-swipes at Bill Clinton. Obama and his supporters can dish it out, but they cry foul when what goes around comes around.
Obama is an intelligent, articulate and charismatic speaker in performance mode using a script. But the debates revealed when he has to think on his feet, he has feet of clay. Yet the support of his followers is ABSOLUTE, based on feeling, not critical thinking. Where's the substance? Why is his campaign still working on a health care plan? Does his voting record show an original idea? "Yes we can?" Yes we can what, and yes we can how? That's what I want to know. Real change means real work and real sacrifice. It's going to take more than smooth talk and a lot more than eight years to fix America's systemic problems.
But Obama is too smart of a politician to dull his glowing rhetoric with such realism, especially while his followers are so enraptured. And when Obama becomes president, and his pro-oil anti-environment voting record comes out in more status quo policies, (we can't save the environment if it costs jobs, right?) his flock will be disappointed, and nothing much will have changed.
Are you so naive to think that Senator Clinton's responses to Obama's attacks harsh. The Conservatives have been running clips of Rev. Wright for over a year. They have been calling him a lying hypocrite before any of us were paying attention. Obama has been slinging mud like a Republican from day one. You are a disgrace to your sex and please do us all a favor and retire.
Democrats can sling mud just like the Republicans can. One would have to be pretty naive to think one party is above dirty politics. That's why so many people don't like politics. I get interested for awhile than I get sick of the pettiness from candidates.
I agree Aleka, It would be nice for Talves to tell us what mud that Obama has slung. I hate when you guys talk about what Obama has done but cannot prove it. If he has done this then prove it. Tell me what he said.
Sorry, I havent noticed any mud?
But -you- certainly seem to have a grudge.
You haven't seen Hillary getting hit with every right wing attack from the 90's?
Where have you been? I thought you considered yourself informed.
Did you know that Bill Clinton is now a "racist"? How did THAT happen.
Smear by surrogates.... it is the Obama way.
Adriana has obvisouly like most people in US a very short memory. I guess few people remember how Bush and McCain fought "bitterly" in the 2000 elections. The republican was deeply split and the fight was way nastier as what we see today. Despite that we had Bush for 8 years, 6 of them with a strong GOP party, and now McCain is his best buddy.
So, stop making all this noise for nothing. This campaign is more than normal and I found it even very civilized compare to the past. Look at what happen in 2004 when we elected a gentle guy who wanted to be above the fray and refuse to fight.
It is sadly obvious, to me at least, that your only intention is to brainwash people and push them in the Obama's camp.
As Loki said you wrote one thing in your books and say something different in public, thinking rightly that a small minority is gonna read your work anyway, so who cares? It's sad.
"...how Bush and McCain fought "bitterly" in the 2000 elections..."
How much denser can you be? Your comment I pasted above is precisely why Clinton is turning off more people than she's gaining. Most people are sick of the right wing tactics that were used against The Clintons in the 90s, McCain in 2000, Kerry in 2004 and now Clinton is using them against Obama. What's more, a lot of us who spent 8 years defending The Clintons in the 90s against these kinds of attacks don't appreciate her using them at all, but we particularly abhor her using them against a fellow Democrat.
What right wing tactics has HIllary used against Obama?
I hear a lot of talk about "knee-capping" and "kitchen sinks" and now "throwing china"..... but I've seen no evidence.
Hillary gets smeared every day by Obama surrogates.
Yes. Our Arianna's short-term memory loss includes Michelle Obama's side-swipes at Bill Clinton long ago that got the negatives started. If Hillary is fair game, soe is Michelle's.
Obama supporters can dish it out, but they cry foul when it comes back around.
The support from most Obama supporters is ABSOLUTE, based on feeling rather than critical thinking. Obama is intelligent, and charismatic in performance mode. But the debates revealed that when he has to think on his feet he has feet of clay-- his inexperience and lack of substantive ideas for the change he talks about. "Yes we can?" Yes we can what, and yes we can how? That's what I want to know. Real change means real work and real sacrifice, and Obama's too smart of a politician to dull the luster of his rhetoric with such realism, especially while his followers are so enraptured that they imagine he must be against everything they are against and for everything they want.
When Obama becomes the next President, those who have annointed him with almost messianic euphoria will become disillusioned. It's going to take a lot more than words to fix the deep problems that ail America, and it's going to take a lot more than eight years.
"Earlier in my college career, there was no doubt in my mind that as a member of the Black community I was somehow obligated to this community and would utilize all of my present and future resources to benefit this community first and foremost.
"My experiences at Princeton have made me far more aware of my "Blackness" than ever before. I have found that at Princeton no matter how liberal and open-minded some of my White professors and classmates try to be toward me, I sometimes feel like a visitor on campus; as if I really don't belong. Regardless of the circumstances underwhich I interact with Whites at Princeton, it often seems as if, to them, I will always be Black first and a student second.
"These experiences have made it apparent to me that the path I have chosen to follow by attending Princeton will likely lead to my further integration and/or assimilation into a White cultural and social structure that will only allow me to remain on the periphery of society; never becoming a full participant. This realization has presently, made my goals to actively utilize my resources to benefit the Black community more desirable." Michelle Robinson (Obama) - Princeton Thesis
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
And ...? As an African American myself, I can attest to the fact that many blacks feel that they are "on the periphery of society." One cannot feel a part of the mainstream society as long as the mainstream society responds first to the color of one's skin, which is the typical response most blacks experience, especially in a setting like Princeton. In fact, it is so typical that black presidential candidates experience it as well. I commend Michelle for wanting to use her resources to help the black community, and in so doing to also bring benefit to the larger society. Would you think better of her if she decided to turn her back on her community? Someone wrote that white people do not think of themselves in terms of their "whiteness." But African Americans have been forced to think of ourselves in terms of our "blackness," and it is white society that has forced this upon us. Perhaps you need to walk in our shoes to better understand what she is saying ... but she is not saying anything negative about either blacks or whites. She is simply speaking as a black woman in the context of the black experience. Apparently, you would like for us to see something in this excerpt that you see, but maybe you're looking at it through a lens that the rest of us do not see through.
Arianna-- You put your finger on the Hillary tactics that have caused me to abandon her after she got my vote in my state's primary (which she won). She's now in the business of manufacturing quotes for McCain's TV commercials.. That she can do that, and that her campaign, her party and her husband condone it is a prime exhibit in the long-forecast process by which we Democrats manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Lord knows we didn't just start that process. But Hillary seems determined to finish it.
Obama supporters are not used to the moderators asking their boy tough personal questions like Hillary has been hammered with at every debate so far and they rattled his cage with questions about his connections to the weatherman bombers, Rev Wright, his remarks about all of those bitter people clinging to their guns and bibles and he did not do so well.
They were the same type of questions that Tim Russet asked Hillary and Obama supporters thought that was ok, but now somehow it is not fair to ask Barack anything that is difficult to answer.
I watched Obama strut around on the stage at one of his rallies slamming Hillary for saying her Grandfather taught her to shoot a gun when she was very young. This in his opinion equated her with pretending to be Annie Oakley and having a shot of Crown Royal with a beer implied she had been a steel worker or some similar disingenuous remark.
Arianna is doing to Clinton the exact same thing she is accusing Hillary of doing to Obama. She needs to remember that neither of them can win without the others support so it is not a good idea to trash Hillary"s supporters which is just what she is doing when she calls Hillary all of these names. She also needs to remember that the Democratic candidate is not just running against McCain but a bunch of slimy swift boaters who will go to the mat to win.
Oh come on bccity,
Obama did not strut around on the stage slamming Hillary. Why don't you talk about Hillary trying to be one of the boys.. All of a sudden her stance on gun control changes. Everyone is talking about. The woman was downing shots and beer with a room full of men. HELLO.
There has not been a host of any debate the grilled Hillary about her private life as they have Obama for 45 minutes. The man has denounced he comments made by Rev Wright, went on national TV and gave a speech, not to mention, rounds of talk shows. What else do you want from the man...his dresser drawer?
The part the really gets me in this whole shabang is Obama church (Trinity Church Of Christ) is 99% white. Everyone has heard of the church of christ ministries. Everyone that goes to church knows that each sermon is different. Sean Hannity put together parts of 3 sermons and played it in a endless loop on TV.
In addition, when was the last time Hillary was in Pennyslvania? I will tell you, when her husband ran for President. Now all of sudden she is one of the boys...
Obama's church is 99% white?
On the South side of Chicago?
Perhaps you should check again.
Don't be fooled by John McCain, the hero. From what I've heard, he could give Pastor Wright a run for his money. But even more so, perhaps. He is reportedly verbally abusive to his wife and family, as well as the entire senate.
But also look at the way he's voting. He's not voting moderate, people. Apparently there's a bill pertaining to education for returning soldiers that McCain is voting against. Takes too much money away from countries we could be conquering.
I'm not fan of McCain's politics but could you at least correctly state the reason he is opposed to it for now. If we are wanting a new way (change) we need to apply it to friend and foe alike. I think people underestimate him. To many, he seems to be governed by his principles rather than what is popular when he believes it's in the best interest of the Nation. We ignore that characteristic at our own peril.
Arianna...
I think you should click on this link and take the quiz... then you'll know which Democrat is truly acting like a republican...
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/quiz/
I'm sure you're curious...
ernestv,
I was curious and took the next. Hillary is acting more like a republican and I will say it over and over. Obama did not say the things that are on that quiz and it would be nice for her to have the dates of when it was said. Heck! I can do that quiz for her and make it look different. As Obama would say please don't fall for the okie doke.
I wonder if Arianna has ever explained why she left the Republican Party and became a Democrat?
I wonder too how many know that what's his name on the Daily Kos voted for Bush. Talk about Rovian tactics this website is no different than Fox in it's bias for one candidate and it's effort to discredit the other. Nothing is nasiter than trying to manufacture the meme that the Clinton's are racist and that HIllary's supporters are also.
I don't understand why the Clinton people would have that stupid quiz up about Hilary, even if all those statements made by Barack were false. You run the danger of confusing people to possibly think those statements are factual.
Hilary Clinton is reminding me a lot of Eric Cartman these days ...
Thank you for another salient post. If only the MSM had the courage to speak the truth.
http://www.jedreport.com/ Look at this video from Clinton's first campaign! They learned all the worng lessons!
More often than not, Senator Obama has voted in favor of Big Oil. In fact, he voted in favor of Cheney/Bush Energy Bill, voting for oil drilling in the Artic and for LNG facilities in Oregon, which we in Vallejo fought against. Now Halliburton trucks are in our North states. Senator Obama continuously tells us that we need to move towards "alternative" energy plans, yet he votes in favor of the current energy forces for things like "clean coal" as if there were such a thing that would not hurt the environment, liquid natural gas, leasing of the shale for purposes of extraction, and drilling for oil in our country which would reverse the environmental protection acts that had to be enacted due to past pollution and destruction.
Obama, unfortunately, is pandering to every direction disclosing only ideology that fits a territory while ensuring by way of his vote, that current corporations in control have no reason to worry--business as usual. Guess that's why we see so many warm fuzzy commercials uniting liberals and conservatives in the name of energy. It is apparent that Obama has no intention of moving us away from carbon based fuels. In addition, he has voted for anything that would promote ethanol, which means farm subsidies that deplete our food supply and erode the soil its all grown in.
By the way, Hillary voted against these bills.
Just thought some of you might value a little truth.
goddessof7worlds
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/397/
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/397/
I know you said that we would value a litle truth from Hillary, but we still have not gotten it. Take a look again at your candidate.
Posted April 14, 2008 | 01:41 PM (EST)