Sam Stein

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Sam Stein

The Huffington Post

Bloomberg, Focusing On Gun Violence, Disagrees With Obama's Remarks

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April 15, 2008 09:09 AM


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There was a certain amount of political serendipity surrounding Michael Bloomberg on Monday. As the New York City mayor and 250 of his mayoral colleagues launched a new phase in their campaign to draw attention to illegal gun violence, the topic of firearms and why people own and vote on them was dominating the presidential campaign.

At issue was the now famous quote Sen. Barack Obama uttered more than a week ago, in which he said voters "cling" to guns, religion, and anti-immigration sentiment when compelled by challenging economic factors. In an interview with The Huffington Post, Bloomberg said he disagreed with the assertion, arguing that neither psychology nor economics were at play.

"I think it is really stretching it to think there is an economic component to how people vote on this," Bloomberg said of the remark, first reported by Huffington Post's OffTheBus. "This is an issue that they have voted the same way for a long time, through good times and bad times. It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower. You can read too much into this."

For Bloomberg, the issue of guns and gun control is far more politically simplistic: People are guaranteed the right to bear arms under the second amendment, but the government has the responsibility to ensure that those individuals with criminal records are screened before purchasing the deadly weapons.

Which brings him back to the point of his campaign. Under the current system, prospective gun owners, regardless of their backgrounds, are free to buy firearms at gun shows. It is a loophole that each of the presidential candidates has argued should be closed -- but one that Congress has yet to address.

"We are trying to get Congress to change the laws and there is an argument, 'well, wait until we see who the next president is,'" said Bloomberg, who up until a recently had flirted with a White House run of his own. "What we try to point out is that all of the three possible presidents support ending the gun show exemption so there is no reason to wait... in the meantime while you are waiting for November or January 26, whenever the new president takes over, there will be a lot more guns sold to criminals."

To that end, on Monday, the Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition launched a new nationwide television advertisement to draw attention to the issue of closing the gun show loophole. The spot featured supporters of all three presidential candidates as well as the mayor himself (labeled: an "undecided voter").

But, for Bloomberg, that wasn't even the biggest campaign breakthrough of the day.

Indeed, earlier on Monday, Wal-Mart, the nation's largest retailer and vender of firearms, announced that it would toughen internal standards regarding background checks and sales to gun owners. "I think that might actually be the catalyst that gets members of Congress to say, wait a second, the train is leaving and I'm on the wrong side on this one," said Bloomberg.

All of which begs the question: if there is support for closing the gun show loophole among all three presidential candidates, if the nation's largest gun vender is getting tighter with its sales, and if - as Bloomberg says - the public favors such a policy by a four-to-one ratio, why has it taken Congress so long to act?

'Because the NRA, which is a single-issue advocacy group, threatens them, and it requires one person to stand up," explained the mayor, adding later: "The second amendment gives people the right to bear arms. I don't have a problem with that. I only have a problem with selling guns to people with criminal records because it is against the federal law, and I think it is an intelligent law."

 
 

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Let me add that I don't mean "instead of" hunting or prayer. I mean "in addition to" hunting and prayer. It'd be nice to pass along a college fund and property, wouldn't it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 04/15/2008

Bloomberg, you are completely missing the point.

"This is an issue that they have voted the same way for a long time, through good times and bad times. It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower. You can read too much into this."

The correlation is not that people vote for pro-gun legislation because they're poor. It's that they have given up on voting for good economic legislation because it never helps them, and therefore they are left voting for the candidates who happen to be pro-gun, pro-life, etc. But what good are those values if you can't afford a gun, a baby, or a house? So at some point, people have got to stop and think about the future, and try electing someone who may not necessarily be in lockstep with them on the more personal issues, but who will improve their quality of life so they'll have something to pass on to their kids besides hunting and prayer.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:17 PM on 04/15/2008

Okay folks, listen up and great this straight. The is NO such thing as a gun show loop hole. If you go to any gun show in the United States to purchase a firearm, before you take possession "you" the buyer are run through the NICS Index. This is a master list kept by the federal government that contains records provided by state and federal agencies about persons prohibited from receiving firearms under federal law. All records in the NICS Index are dis-qualifying records and will prohibit the sale of a firearm. The process is mandatory. No NICS check, no gun! It's just that simple.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:19 PM on 04/15/2008

People, especially the press have entirely missed the point of the "bitter" comments and here is the Point:
In 2000 and 2004 the GOP knew they could not win the "blue collar" voters on GOP issues like tax cuts for the wealthy, free-trade (big job loser) and of course their elite constiuency. Well Karl Rove said since we can't get these people on "real issues" let's get them on cultureal issues like guns, Religion, Patriotism, abortion and affirmative action. They created their "faith based" initives, showed their support for the NRA, tied terrorism with National Security, morality etc. Well the "blue collar workers fell for it TWICE. They were dupped and they are the ones who have lost jobs by the people they "trusted". As Rove and Bush laughed at them - they got bitter and angry and here we are again. This time it's Hillary using that karl Rove play since it worked so well in 2000 and 2004. The big difference this time is that people won't fall for that crap again and will vote on Economic issues not cultural ones.! That's what Obama was trying to say - he fumbled it but he was right!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 04/15/2008

Precisely. He fumbled it. He fumbled it because he read it, he didn't live it. It came off as condescending because it was. Here's this Harvard guy psychoanalyzing the voters he hopes to woo? What he was trying to say is true. What he said is not (so they cling to their guns and religion). How he delivered it sure sounded like he thought he was better than those people. And that's why they're calling him "elite." Not because of how much money he makes compared to others but because he's full of himself.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:39 PM on 04/15/2008

"It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower."

Now THERE'S an "elitist" and "out of touch" statement, if I've ever seen one. WOW!

OBAMA 08

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:21 PM on 04/15/2008

What about Fake Rambo woman candidate bragging about guns and booze? Maybe the mayor knows who the nominee will be, that's why on his remarks he mentioned Obama.
I agree on gun control. Too much crime and violence, specially in the big cities. Something has to be done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:23 PM on 04/15/2008

"unarmed" was cut off the end of my post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:20 PM on 04/15/2008

Whatever the treasonous elite want, like gun control, is a precurser to another goal. Two issues come to mind - the fairly new bankrupcy laws and emminent domain laws. A couple of years ago the PTB made it impossible for anyone else besides themselves (big business) to declare bankrupcy. Why? Because they knew ahead of time about the housing crash. The emminent domain law? Because they are going to build the NAFTA highway from Texas clear up to Canada and need a several mile swath through everyone's property who is in the way. It will/has come in handy to oust Katrina victims from their property as well. Problem, reaction, solution at the highest level. No one talks about mind control and how people are programed to kill (think Virginia Tech) all the while the general public thinks its a crazy person gone wild. Create the problem (without anyone knowing your behind it), people react - Oh my God, nutters with guns!!, and then good old Uncle Sam comes up with the solution - ban guns. You can bet there is a reason they don't want us to have guns. My guess is that we are heading for a depression (they would not tell us, you will wake up one morning and the banks and stores will be closed) and it will be easier to control people who are scared and in fear. If we are armed we are able to protect ourselves from marauding bands who will prey on the

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:19 PM on 04/15/2008

All I have to read is "treasonous elite" to know whatever follows was written by a fool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:36 PM on 04/15/2008

Right, see your one of the people that probably shouldn't be allowed a gun for psychiatric reasons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:11 PM on 04/15/2008

Actually, Bloomberg completely missed Obama's point. He never implied that people would abandon their guns (or God, for that matter) if the economy was good. What he was saying is that people vote against their own economic interests because they don't believe that Washington can/will solve the big problems; they end up voting on wedge issues as a diversion from the real issues facing the nation.

Either Bloomberg missed the point in error, or he did it intentionally to make his own political point... which has the potential of creating another diversion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:12 PM on 04/15/2008

Bloomberg is a neo-con capitalist, and an opportunist. He is Republican when it suits him, and independent or Democrat when it suits him as well.

No doubt Bloomberg saw the opportunity to knock a populist from the left (utilizing his anti-gun street-cred). I believe that he is deliberately misinterpreting Obama's remarks for his own purposes. Bloomberg is much to shrewd not to realize what Obama was saying, and also much to shrewd to fall for Hillary's talking points.

Bloomberg holds to the same "universal foreign policy truths" that fundamentally undermine the free exchange of ideas. He believes in the magical hand of the lassaiz fairy, and that private control of our basic recources and public utilities is the best way to manage them in the best interest of the people.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:31 PM on 04/15/2008

Bloomberg was right, obambi wrong. People believe in their religion and guns whatever the economic climate. It's a stretch to think that people cling to their religion and guns because they're bitter about the economy. Silly.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 04/15/2008

"It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower. "

really? the crime rate isn't correlated to the economy's performance? nonsense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 04/15/2008

But Mr. Bloomberg, gun violence IS higher in economically depressed communities. People who earn a decent living in a structured work environment simply don't go around shooting people as frequently as those who don't. When the gentrification of Manhattan is complete, for example, and the inner-city poor are priced out, gun violence will be substantially limited.

Economic inequality in the primary cause of social unrest and violent crime. Guns don't kill people, poverty does. Eliminate poverty, and all manner of political problems will fade away. In this social and ideological melting pot we call America, the tie that has historically bound us together is a sense of shared prosperity. If we cannot sustain the unifying vision of upward mobility, then Americans will invariably look to their social or ideological identities in search of a sense of purpose.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 PM on 04/15/2008

I completely disagree with Bloomberg's comment -

"It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 PM on 04/15/2008

Amen to that. When the economy is worse, some people always turn to crime. That's part of why the crime rate was so much lower during the tech boom -- lots of money flying around for everyone, even trickling down to the "permanent poor."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/15/2008

What Bloomberg and his mayors are talking about really is irrelevant for most of this country. Big cities are like another world altogether. Most Americans couldn't care less if NYC, Baltimore, Philly or any of the other dysfunctional rat's nests called "cities" destroy themselves internally.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:38 PM on 04/15/2008

Bloomberg said, "This is an issue that they have voted the same way for a long time, through good times and bad times. It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower. You can read too much into this."

He is wrong. I live in the Alabama section of PA and know several former gun foes who are taking classes to learn how to handle guns and shoot to kill. They are chatting about Lugers and Glocks and whether the "lady" Smith & Wesson will actually frighten an intruder. Guns are a lot cheaper than ADT, the local police force puts on the answering machine after dinnertime, and the Bloods and the Crips have arrived in our little town, tagging the backs of buildings to mark their turf. We know the local police can't do much to protect us, so it's up to us to keep our homes from become crime scenes. We are alarmed by the presence of antisocial neighborhood kids, home invaders, and ordinary burglars. Many in the area have always had firearms for sport, dinner acquisition, and protection, but more are joining their numbers for self defense. Our local sherriff's office directly contradicts Bloomberg's comment that "It is not like people have to defend themselves against a higher rate of crime when the economy is lower." We're seeing more personal crime as times get tougher, and an increased need for self-defense.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:24 PM on 04/15/2008

Penn, I couldn't have said it better myself. Bloomberg has top notch security and probably a body guard to boot. He doesn't worry if he calls the police about intruders that they might not show up for an hour because they dealing with domestic violence and drug problems across town.

My grandmother had to shoot a burgler crawling into her daughters window because she lived in the country and her husband traveled a lot. They were always getting their gas stolen.

You can only wonder if Blackwater starts appearing here in America, if we will need
guns to "protect" us from our own government.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:58 PM on 04/15/2008

Obama chose his words poorly in SF, and he has admitted that. He spoke to the same issue in 2004:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGF3cyHE7M

I believe the above link accurately characterizes his views. It's a shame people have taken a misspoken phrase and spun it into something it isn't for political gain. When Obama said voters "cling" to guns, religion, and anti-immigration sentiment, he meant cling to guns and religion as POLITICAL ISSUES. As he said, he mangled his words, but that hasn't stopped the media feeding frenzy. And it hasn't stopped Hillary from one more desperate attempt to appeal to the ignorant and uninformed with her latest TV ad.

And I disagree with Bloomberg. When one issue is ignored by politicians, or given lip service and nothing changes, voters pay more attention to other issues that are important to them and vote based more on those other issues.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 PM on 04/15/2008

oh you left out how he called them BIGOTS and/or Racists !!!! you know "antipathy toward people who aren't like them"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:23 PM on 04/15/2008

I believe people do tend to vote for candidates they feel are most like themselves. I live in Indiana and have heard white people say they won't vote for Obama because of his race. I've spoken with women who say they are voting for Hillary because she is a woman. So, yes, when the voting public doesn't believe their votes will make a difference on their economic well-being, they cast their votes based more on other issues such as religion, guns, race, gender, and a wide variety of other reasons. When Obama made his remarks, he was not putting PA voters down; he was simply describing voter behavior.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:42 PM on 04/15/2008

Oh, we know that small town USA embraces strangers - brown and asian people are welcome to live in their towns. We know that they don't care how a person worships - mormons, islam, jew, buddhist, pagan and the atheists are fine with them too ... they love everyone and welcome everyone from another country that comes here to live into their community.
Forget about the senator the just referred to Obama as a boy the other day ... that doesn't happen in any small towns in the US

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:30 PM on 04/15/2008

If you're poor and frustrated you pray and pray to St. Jude because Washington is full of sinners and you get guns to kill the chickens of your neighbor.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 04/15/2008

How quickly they turn on you Mike. You know better than to deviate from the path that the Chosen one has picked for us all.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:59 AM on 04/15/2008

Ya huffington time to put the Bitter to rest! we've had enough already! to much important stuff going on out there! Like Republican geoff davis giveing away security secrets and call Obama a snake Oil salemans and a "BOY"! And we all know what that means without analyzeing it like we all did the word Bitter gate for pete sake!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 04/15/2008

Ok and let's put the Clinotn bashing to rest to while you're at it right? Yeah Right!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:08 PM on 04/15/2008

this guy is a nobody.
and is there a single more elitist person on the planet then this bum??

stop being the water boy for wall street and the state of israel.
this is the United States of AMERICA

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:54 AM on 04/15/2008

The solution is for the cops to aggressively disarm known local punks, gangsters, ex-cons and crazies on the street and in their cars. Catch and release. Melt the guns and ship the scrap to China. This procedure will keep the NRA out of the loop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:48 AM on 04/15/2008

Why would you want to keep the NRA out of the loop when it was the NRA's support for the NICS Imporvement Act which got it passed through Congress?? Because we certainly know that anti-rights groups like the Brady Campaign and Bloomberg's MAIG cannot pass gun control legislation without the support of the NRA.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:55 AM on 04/15/2008

No Wonder we are Bitter ......And this explains who is out of touch with Americans , its Clintons and the Republicans that keep making money
from these trade policies that forget the American People so what kind of Leadership is this, favoring Big Biz , letting them Import Tariff Free from a Country that manipulates its currency so we Americans cannot compete , but the Big Biz gets to make money off the Currency exchange of the Imports Who is B.S.ing Who here ?????? Bitter , Hell Yes we American Blue Collar working class people , PEOPLE yes You SUITS we are People too , not just Consumers that are used in statistics and analyzed for our Spending power , my God Bitter doesn't explain the Mindset well enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
US deep in debt and still digging
You're paying for the nation's debt addiction through both direct and indirect taxes. And unfortunately, Uncle Sam is going to need more money.

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/USDeepInDebtAndStillDigging.aspx
Foreclosures continue to soar, worst is not over
Filings up 57 percent in March over "07; ARM resets to crest in May and June

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24115651

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:44 AM on 04/15/2008

Wow...Guess Bloomberg just blew his chance as VP.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 04/15/2008

curious...until very recently, Obama supporters were saying wonderful things about Bloomberg, now that he dared not to agree with their leader, he is the worst, soon he'll be a racist, etc. I think I am getting it....

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:00 PM on 04/15/2008

".....A Smart Man who is addressing the truth on our out of control loop holes for the purchasing of Guns in this country!"

Spoken like someone who knows nothing about the subject. This "out of control loophole" is blown way out of proportion.

When someone buys a gun from a federally licensed dealer, they must go through a background check, regardless of where they buy the gun. In some states, you can buy from a private collector, at a gun show, without going through a NICS check. If non-licensees were allowed access to the NICS system, that would eliminate this imagined problem of theirs, but the anti-gun groups won't support it.

According to the Dept. of Justice, only about .02% of guns used in crime, come from gun-shows. The vast majority of these guns are stolen. Criminals don't like to pay retail.

This "loophole" nonsense is just another thing for the anti-rights nannies to complain about. Just like the so called "assault rifles" they are always crying over. Rifles in general only account for about 2.9 % of crime guns. "Assault rifles" come in at about .2%.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/15/2008

I'm tired of the politicians saying they are all for the 2nd amendment because they respect the rights of hunters and sport shooters. The 2nd adm had nothing to do with hunting. It was not put in as a right to "secure dinner". But if they referenced it in it's true context all the people ignorant to history, the Constitution and the bill of rights, which accounts for the vast majority, would get scared and pee in their pants at that "radical" idea that was setup by the people founded this country. I'm not advocating the usage of the 2nd adm, but at least tell it like it is.

The whole gun debate is as the stupidest thing that has ever been discussed as a major political issue. Outlaw guns and then the only people who have them are criminals and the gov't (ironic?). It's a street level police issue that has to be handled community by community.

Look to Mexico to see how well their b