Polygamist Ranch Women: We Were Tricked Into Giving Up Our Children

The mothers of hundreds of children who were removed from a polygamist compound in West Texas have accused state officials of tricking them into giving up their children. The AP reports:

Mothers separated from their children as part of a wide-ranging abuse investigation within a polygamist retreat accuse state officials of misleading them before taking their children into custody.

Authorities raided the sect's ranch more than a week ago in response to allegations that underage girls were forced to marry older men. Women and children from the secretive community were taken to a West Texas fort-turned-museum and a rodeo pavilion, but on Monday officials began separating women and some of their children without warning, members of the sect said.

In a rare move, the women invited journalists to the polygamist ranch and gave interviews. The women were visibly distraught as they recounted to a Today Show reporter how authorities separated them from their children.

[WATCH]

Comments

[Trueheart]

There is a train of thought appearing that is most disturbing. It seems that many of us do not understand the right that religious people have to form their own communities, and reject the values of mainstream society. But this is how our nation was started, and these roots go deep into the bedrock.

Do we have the right to subject Mennonites, Amish and Hasidic Jews to the same kind of invasion and impose mainstream values on them? Granted there are gene pool problems when you have a small population that ends up inbreeding as generations go on. Many of these groups do have health-related problems related to close bloodlines. But I live in a rural community where this is a problem too, and there's no religious element involved whatsoever.

Can you not recall the exemplary behavior of the Amish who lost their children in the schoolhouse slaughter a few years ago? They forgave the killer and extended sympathy to his wife. Anybody who couldn't admire their dignity and commitment to being "gentle people," has a hole in their heart.

My point? They are different, and they have a right to exist. I suspect that within these communities, marriages are arranged, and that the will of the individual bows to tradition. I just don't think there is anything we can do, short of blowing our right to free religious expression into smithereens.

[littleb1]

Have children or babies been murdered in the FLDS?

Has anyone gone to the cemetaries to recover children and have autopies done?

[Mormondude]

Meanwhile on the other side of the state, Dallas gentlemen's clubs are paying minors, including a 12 year old girl, to dance nude, and the state refuses to punish them.

What kind of screwed up priorities do we have to allow the state to perpetrate this horrible abuse of these families, and then pretend like they have no power to stop cabarets from employing minors?

[GoodwithWood]

I was raised LDS, but all of my cousins were raised in one of these cults. I was lucky in that my father rejected the religion of his parents and siblings. I could tell you a lot of disturbing stories about isolated plig cults, But I"ll just tell you one for now.
When I was 14 I was sent off to be "straitened out" by my grand parents, aunts and uncles. A lecture or talking too that I received from my uncle was about how after adolescents had received 3 chances at obedience "they should simply be put too death".
This uncle, along with another uncle, an aunt and an 8 year old cousin were eventually assassinated by children who had been raised in one of these plig cults.
You see, when children are raised in an isolated environment you can mold them into what you want them to be whether it be a baby machine or an assassin.
I"ve seen this all first hand and I think that Richard Dawkins got it right when he said that religious indoctrination is a form of child abuse. These people are the extreme end of that and they get the point crossed well.

GWW

[TN]

They look stupid, but some are very smart. They Bleed the Beast, that's us, through govt. payments of welfare "single" women, they probably get food stamps too. Jeff's started a new policy, girls were to be married at 16, he was beginning to start another new policy of 14. This is a pedofillia camp, any woman that allowed her child to be "married" at 16 should go to jail. They send all of the young boys away at 14 so all the old pedofilles can get the babies, 14 year olds. Real great religion you've got there.

[Trueheart]

How do you know these things about public assistance? Wouldn't they have to deal with state social workers if they were on welfare? Don't know about Texas, but that's the way it is in my state.

The fact of the matter is that to date, no charges have been brought against these parents, so we don't know what the offenses are. Are you suggesting that their civil rights should be suspended?

I' m not happy to hear that 400+ kids were hustled off under armed guard to a Gitmo for Mormon Children, and are probably being interrogated by social workers, and subjected to gynecological exams for evidence of sexual abuse. This will be, for the majority of them, a traumatic rapelike experience carried out in the name of "protection."

[venicesurfer]

and im glad they were tricked.

[GodIs]

Thank Heaven for little girls!

[pinkerman2]

I can't help but remark and ask; How upset were/are these "good" Mother's when they see, or at least know that a lecherous old man is climbing on top of their sweet Daughters against the childs wishes. And please don't defend the Mothers by pleading that that is what happened to them. I would really like to shake or slap Kathleen to see if her head would pivot 360 degrees, I think it might.
Just one more remark,. Anyone who wants the whole history of this cult should read 'Under the Banner of Heaven' by Jon Krakauer. Do not be decieved by these Women and their self-pitying tears or words. Think rape!!!!!

[TrishR]

I think the children brought up in isolation deserve opportunities to interact with their fellow citizens and enjoy the education that members of a modern, democratic society can enjoy. If this group is really a harmless place for children to be, why do they have to train their kids to fear and avoid outsiders?

Like the Short Creek mass arrests, this has been a PR nightmare for people who seem to want to protect helpless kids.

One way out of this mess is for us to consider not just the freedom-of-religion of the adults in this ranch, but the First Amendment rights of the kids, too. We don't allow parents to vote their kids votes; or bind them in apprenticeships [as was once common]; to say, "forget gun control, I'm giving my toddler a pistol", and in some states that allow underage marriage, it requires permission of a court in addition to the parents. Perhaps it's time to observe the example of the Amish, and consider holding religious practice in abeyance until a citizen is 18. Churches will still be there when the kids grow up.

Kids who have died because their parents chose prayer instead of medical care never get as chance to enjoy their First Amendment freedom-of-religion. Girls who've had several kids by 18 [whose kids may be scattered among several households] might find it hard to enjoy their freedom-of-religion if it might mean loss of custody of their kids.

[jackspratling]

I have real problems with the comment that "children brought up in isolation deserve opportunities to interact with their fellow citizens and enjoy the education that members of a modern, democratic society can enjoy."
Were the children seized by the state authorities because the children were in real danger, or because they were not being properly socialized to interact with modern society? The state has the burden of proving that each child, on a case by case basis, is in danger. Simply pointing to the isolation or social mores of the FLDS is not sufficient for seizing children.
The reason is because this becomes a slippery slope. We have the constitutional right to lead our lives with limited state interruption, and it needs to be established on a case-by-case basis. If the only reason given is that mainstream America disapproves of the lifestyle someone is leading (as opposed to somone committing a crime), that's very troubling.
Think about what it would mean if your child was taken away because you limited their television consumption, or the clothes they wear. I know that's not what you're saying, but that's an implication of what your statement would lead to.

[TrishR]

I don't remember advocating removal of children. I am concerned about kids brought up in isolation, taught to fear outsiders.

I am even more concerned about kids being in a situation where they might never have an opportunity to enjoy the rights outlined in the Constitution.

[Steamboater]

Tricked into giving up their children? Their men tricked these women into giving up their lives. These women want the kids back? So they can pair their daughters off to old men who can rape them. None of these kids should be given back. As bad as the fostercare system is, these kids will have freer and better lives if they're raised outside this Morman cult.

[SignifyingMonkey]

In general, I believe your suggestion is in the best interest of all Republican children as well.

[zamerdee]

It like a 18th century Stepford Wives revival. I can't stand women who bow down to men and can't be their equals. Plus, force teens to marry old farts. These women are no minded idiots, I feel the same with women who wear Burqa's or never show their hair with scarfs. Hard to believe this is the 21'st century.

[alwaysthere]

the people who started it all; now play innocent (The Saint's) (The Prophet's)
well gee and gosh we don't swear
smile soooooooo sweet

Where ever
and when ever
goodness is a deception
and promise's are a fraud
you will find
men pretending to know God

pretzeled faith
with evil and good cheeze
what a religious snack
no thank you..Please !!

didn't manson go to jail espousing an evil idea !!

Saint's ?

[pc51]

I hope the children are getting a lot of nurturing and support wherever they are because it is like a "mini-death" to a child to be yanked away from everything and everybody they have ever known.

[renoir]

That's right, pc51. This is the very thing that keeps women returning to abusive husbands and children living in dangerous households to want to return to that very situation... it's what they know and that feels safer to a lot of people who are victimized than to leap into the unknown. It should surprise no one that these women and children would want to go "home". Where else would they think they would rather be? In a stadium? In the big scary world that they've been taught (read: brainwashed) is really a bad place full of bad people? Poor things. All of them. This is their LIVES. How horrible. It's all just sad and terrible and my heart goes out to first the kids and then the women.

[TN]

It's better for them to deal with it now, then when they become 14 and are abandoned by their own mothers. 14 year old boys kicked out of their own lives by mothers that were supposed to love them but truthfully have come to love their new cars and their massive log homes. 14 year old girls being raped by old men until impregnated with a child to carry on this sin. No, much better to do it now. They will heal. Because the other way, their lives were ruined.

[loria]

Are you including being married off to an old man before these girls are 14 or 15? That also has to be a mini-death.

[JohnFromCensornati]

What's mini about it?

[PhillyQuaker]

Let's not forget the civil rights of the FLDS children with a rare birth defect , fumarase deficiency.

""These females, young girls possibly, are giving birth to children with the condition that requires full-time attention from caregivers. Victims suffer a range of symptoms, including severe epileptic seizures, inability to walk or even sit upright, severe speech impediments, failure to grow at a normal rate, and tragic physical deformities."
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2005-12-29/news/forbidden-fruit/full

[SignifyingMonkey]

In fact, you can see in the picture the high hair line common among nearly all these females, suggesting the possibility of inbreeding of the sort that results in Founders Effect, which includes a loss of genetic variation that normally keeps societies vibrant. We may be seeing the beginnings of a new species with limited chances of surviving any environmental changes due to the characteristic lack of genetic variation. Nevertheless, the children may be good doners for stem-cell research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect.

[mrdontplay]

I'm telling you.

All you have to do is travel the world to the locations where the people supposedly are the most faithful and you'll find crazy people.

Religion is a scam.

They are nothing other than the wing man for politicians.

Good cop's to the elected official bad cop.

Elected official screws you first. Then the copeing mechanism known as organized religion kicks in.

Reminds you, oh no; don't DO anything. Just pray.

[helonias]

I bet David Blaine would blow their (tiny) minds

[castlerider]

Let's get one thing straight.-
Liberals did not take these kids from theior mothers. West Texas is 95% Repuglican.

This is horrible. An absolute travesty that they took these kids from their mothers, and should be taken back where they were with no questions asked.
There is absolutely no evidence that ANY crime was taking place, and is obviously something that the law in Texas set up because they simply could not stand to let those people live in peace. it does not surprise me one bit; that's the way the law is in Texas. They consider themselves all-powerful.

The same in Waco, they showed up with guns there when they could have approached David Koresh anytime at the grocery store. But they got there asses kicked, which many people felt served them right. Whether it did or didn't, that's what happened. They showed up brandishing weapons here too.- And it wouldn't surprise me if they weren't sublinally hoping they would get to use them here, too.
It sure does smell like it.
Smells like- Bacon.

[colleen2]

"There is absolutely no evidence that ANY crime was taking place, and is obviously something that the law in Texas set up because they simply could not stand to let those people live in peace."

They responded to a phone call from a girl reporting statutory rape. There are 16 year old girls with 4 children.That may be OK with you but it's against the laws supported by republicans and democrats alike.
Good for the state of Texas for doing a better job of enforcing the laws than the states of Utah or Arizona.

[Bobleblah1]

This is dangerous ground we tread on.
I am totally opposed to the government just coming in and stealing children from their families.
The bottom line is this, If there are individuals within a religious organization that broke laws, those individuals alone, should be arrested, charged, and punished accordingly. Aside from that, I see no legal authority for the government to just come in and take everyones children from the place, when they have not even established what adults are culpable for what?

Step back from the fact that everyone loves kids and hates those who potentially abuse them.
The government should never be allowed to strip 100's of people of their constitutional right to practice the faith of their choice by stealing their children, sending them to concentration camps, based on allegations against "some" adults within the organization.

A smart man once said,
The minute you stop those you disagree with from having their freedom, you have stopped yourself"

Please think DEEPLY about what this actually means. Not just in theory, but in practice.

What does it mean???

When you stop those different from you from having their freedom, you have drawn the blueprint by which your own freedoms will eventually be taken from you.

A government bold enough to strip some of its citizens of basic rights, is capable of doing it to all of its citizens.

[HermioneGranger]

So, Texas men have the right to rape children? Interesting. Do you think they should only be entitled to rape female children or also male chlidren? And how young can the children be? Twelve? Ten? Four?

[pinkerman2]

Bobleblah1 What about rape do you and that damned cult not UNDERSTAND?? Rape, or any other form of child abuse, is not a right, it is a felony. Got it? good don't want to have to explain it again. The 'wives' look as dumb as a bag of rocks, I hope that you are smarter. Child protection=
good. Child rape= BAD.

[arvada]

who said anyone has any rights?

[FranklinS]

exactly-good post

[SonofLiberty1]

Oh come on...these are polygamist wives they may think they are Christian but they are NOT.
I'm all for the Feds coming in to ALL THESE COMPOUNDS and taking the kids. This is idiocy at it's finest!

And where are the feminists?

Old guys marrying more than one young wife?

Again I say, come on...come off it!

[colleen2]

"And where are the feminists?"

We're hoping that the states of Utah and Arizona will start enforcing the laws against statutory rape and polygamy in their states too. Thanks for asking

[Hopalongpoppyseed]

Yes, yes, in order to save the village, it was necessary to destroy it.

[Ndw]

I think destroying this 'village' was in order. What I don't understand is how any 16 yr old girl was allowed to have 4 children, and the state had done nothing. One child at 11 would be enough for me to think armed intervention might be a good plan.

[pleeezzze]

THe only decent way to solve the problem with all the kids is, DNA to find the real fathers and Mothers . Then find the ages of the kids and that of the mothers when they became pregnant .

The dirty old men (usually) should be charged with Rape !
The mothers do contribute also , but may be too backward to stop them .

[LeonBNJ]

Something was very wrong in this 'cult' site. There were clear violations of our criminal laws. Minors were being sexually abused. I do think that the children should be returned to their respective mothers as soon as possible. I also think the true and very rich LDS organization in Salt Lake City ought to take part, as their faith may require, to help these women and children including legal, housing, feeding, social, faith and other needs rather than the State of Texas. The State of Texas ought to go after all the men for their sexual and other exploitations.