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What Passes For Debate

Posted April 17, 2008 | 11:24 AM (EST)

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Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate

Back in the days of our radio show, our standard name for the media was one taken from Jerry Lewis..."pimps and whores". After last night, it's obvious we were too kind.

Instead of sonorously intoning various articles of the Constitution when returning from an ad for bowel cleansing yogurt, perhaps Gibson and Stephanopoulos could have focused just one question on the administration that has been shredding it section by section.

Granted, that may be too much too ask when Charlie & Little George's capital gains taxes are in danger of rising and they need to ascertain just how much bomb-making knowledge the non flag-lapel-pin-wearing Obama may have acquired while listening to sermons. Ohh..and Senator Clinton would you like to add to that?...was your grandfather bitter when he kept a flask of Crown Royal inside the bible he carried on hunting trips?

But it was comforting to see the cutaways to all the Clinton supporters in the audience. And it was reassuring to hear Hillary imply that, with regards to the Bosnia tarmac, yes she may have lied but she won't ever lie again.

It's hard to go on because last night was beyond satire. We have a good friend who doesn't follow politics but watched the debate -- she found it "insulting". Living as we do in Pa., we've heard from more than a few people that Ed Rendell has been trundling across the state threatening any mayor who supports Obama with the loss of funds...that might be news.

But there is no news anymore. We defy anyone to watch the performance of Gibson and Stephanopoulos last night...and then, turn over to C-SPAN for coverage of Cheney at the Radio & Television Correspondents Dinner. Watch the press pissing themselves with laughter over inane quips from a blood-drenched torturer...and tell us this country isn't fucked.

Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate


 

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collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

How did almost every question written by the press in a Democratic debate seem as if written by the GOP attack merchants? How has the GOP been so successful at setting the agenda to its Talking Point and limiting the debate to inconsequential, irrelevant issues of arcanery when substance was never so critical. McCain is so rarely asked questions about his associations or his finances or his medical records. The GOP is so aggressive at bullying their agenda and their analysis of what is essential and the remaining press justs takes the cue from them, otherwise afraid of being labeled as biased. It is a travesty.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:15 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse ljsfolly See Profile I'm a Fan of ljsfolly

When Corporations are banded together is a way to try to help Hillary steal the nomination then steal the job as president as they have bought and paid for the help the clintons have promised to keep things as they are so the corporations can continue the sucking the life out of the country what else can be said. Hillary should have been gone and would have been gone already had she not had the clinton name and history. But the sleaze fest that feeds MSM is still going and all the while the secondary bought guy McCain has been growing in his support of these same people for if you cannot have one bought an paid for then the other might still work. How Barack has not played their game is obvious but who will talk about this and what is really happening is also not a big secret. MSM is owned by the same people who are buying into the candidates so they won't have to give up anything including the war and sending companies and jobs overseas. Who will tell the people of our country what is going on?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:34 AM on 04/18/2008
collapse pbfishtaco See Profile I'm a Fan of pbfishtaco

Compare the interrogation that occurred in the first part of the debate to the questions McCain was asked on the Chris Matthews Lovefest a day or two ago.

Pass the donuts and the ribs!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:24 AM on 04/18/2008
collapse pattyfish See Profile I'm a Fan of pattyfish

Who knew........Jon Stewart would be the "Cronkite" of this generation...the only non news...newsperson....the people trust.....

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:48 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse esquire07 See Profile I'm a Fan of esquire07

Gonna get much worse folks - America is screwed. Braindead debate for a braindead populace.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:08 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse timothe See Profile I'm a Fan of timothe

Did you guys ever stop and think that the candidates may have set themselves up for this "Gotcha" session? All three of them have no problem showing up on Jay Leno and Saturday Night Live and The View and American Idol, but none of them will sit and answer hard questions from any of the major news networks for 30 minutes. So now, a network gets their hands on the candidates and WHAP!!!

The questions in this debate really weren't that much different than the Tim Russert debate or the Wolf Blitzer debate. It just happened to be that the guy with the most unanswered questions this time around was Obama.

I hate the press..passionately. I think they all lean left. In this case though, it is the candidates themselves that allowed this to happen because they won't show up for any of the hard news shows.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

I think when you say that none of the candidates will answer questions from major news networks you mean Fox News.

The reason the Democratic candidates do not appear on Fox, outside of an occasional Hillary appearance, is Fox is little more than a smear machine.

Every night O'Reilly has clips of Obama's former pastor Wright shouting into the microphone. There is nothing Sean Hannity will not say to smear Obama even if untrue. Sheppard Smith has said several nights in a row that the pope is an honorary Republican.

If you want the Democrats candidates to appear in a conservative press format, then get a real press and not Karl Rove's dream of how a new's station should operate.

Otherwise, Obama and Clinton have debated multiple times on multiple networks. Each has appeared on every major news broadcast. This kind of name calling debate serves only Republicans and is just a continuation of what is seen nightly on Fox, where its works for Fox's unread audience well.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:27 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse RButler See Profile I'm a Fan of RButler

The most significant reason that Democrats should avoid Fox News is that they have misinformed their viewers. A Pew Research Survey several years ago showed that Fox was near the bottom of the list of news and even comedy shows regarding facts about WMDs and the Iraq war. Comedy Central viewers were near the top.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:09 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

Yes, they misinform viewers and smear Democrats.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:09 PM on 04/19/2008
collapse lboucher See Profile I'm a Fan of lboucher

So Obama losses the debate to HRC because he fumbles his responses to direct questions and it's ABCs fault???

Wow he better man up and get a lot better with his responses or McCain will roll over him in the fall.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse ellenolenska See Profile I'm a Fan of ellenolenska

You have totally missed the lboucher. Little George and Gibson did a diservice to Democracy last night. We the people are interested in hearing aboutthe issues. I would hope that these candidates and all future presidential candidates flaty refuse to engage in anymore debates unless moderated by someone like the Leage of Women Voters.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:25 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse Imabachi See Profile I'm a Fan of Imabachi

Substantive questions on the issues and time to answer the questions? Fugettaboutit. It could be claimed that with League of Women Voters moderators (as it used to be) there would be more honest debates but, as we all know, neither of the mainstream parties would stand for it and so...what do you expect?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:58 AM on 04/18/2008
collapse nk007 See Profile I'm a Fan of nk007

-What if we had a debate where Candidates were asked their positions on the issue of "unitary
executive?"
-What if we had a debate where Candidates were asked about the issue of whether they would invade another country in violation of the United Nations Charter?
_What if we had a debate where Candidates were asked their views about torture and America's position on the Geneva Conventions?
-What if we had a debate and Candidates were asked what they plan to do to about the crumbling infrastructures.
-What if we had a debate where Candidates were grilled about globalization, and the out sourcing of jobs and the decimation of the industrial heartland?
-What if we had a debate that focused on the trillion dollars war in Iraq that is devastating the future of our Children and our grand children?
-What if we had a debate where Candidates were asked their positions on the role of the mercenaries, like Blackwater, in United States military operations?
-What if we had a debate where Candidates were asked about their positions on the war profiteering by such companies as Haliburton?
Last night's so called Democratic debate in Pennsylvania, was a sham. It was a distraction. It was a shameless attempt to inflame voters over stupid issues. I hope the American people rise up and demand that corporate media, that uses the public airways, respect their interests and not the interests of the Republican machine and Fox talking heads.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:38 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse RButler See Profile I'm a Fan of RButler

Thank you, nk007. I vote for you as the next moderator. An anonymous blogger asks more intelligent questions that those well paid entertainers. Now, how do we provide those 2 idiots with consequences for their ineptitude? I'm sure they have already rationalized their performances themselves so they think they did fine.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:16 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

Excellent questions, and last night's debate shows how dumb reporter's think the American public is. Perhaps we are if we could elect Bush twice and then do little to reign him in. It is the media that elevates the trivial over the substantial. I like your questions and would eagerly watch such a debate.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:30 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse Imabachi See Profile I'm a Fan of Imabachi

Now there are some absolutely commendable questions that have real "meat" on them. Excellent.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 04/18/2008
collapse MaracaKabob See Profile I'm a Fan of MaracaKabob

Chris Matthews is now saying Obama lost because he didn't stoop down in the gutter and slurp up the garbage like Hillary did so well. Chris Matthews is going to be running for Senate in Pa. and is going to need Hillary's support, so we can expect this kind of spin from Matthews from now on. He is no longer a good source in my book and he is off my tivo.
I saw Obama try and rise above this right-wing ambush, and though it was difficult, he stood his ground and did stay above.
George should have just grouped his questions all together and asked Obama 'You are a black man, and you hang out with other black men, are you black men all the same, are you all radical and America hating, cause you sure look the same.". I'm being bitter and sarcastic...

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse NewtC See Profile I'm a Fan of NewtC

Quick, let"s put together a contact list for all the advertisements aired during ABC"s debacle debate. Then let"s slam the advertisers for supporting such shoddy journalism. Use your flag lapel pin to stick ABC where it hurts.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:34 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse DanOregon See Profile I'm a Fan of DanOregon

Not a good night for Gibby and Steph. Gibson seemed obsessed about someone raising his taxes and Steph came off as the thug brought in to ask loaded questions to Obama to keep the head boss's hands clean.
I do think these questions reflected poorly on ABC and now seeing the negative response the mods have engendered , no news org will try and go "there" again.
Should be interesting to see how Steph reacts to the criticism when he interviews McCain on Sunday.
And why didn't he disclose his own past association with one of the candidates? Or the source of his questions?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:30 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse Maanu See Profile I'm a Fan of Maanu

ABC =
America's Been Conned
Another Brother Crucified
Anything But Concerned
Anglo's Biting at the Chomp
Always Being Catty
Actually Believe in Compassion
Abrogated By Cowardice
Appease & Betray their Conviction

Appallingly Biased Coverage
Angle Back to Chelsea
Angle Back to Clark
Ayers Bit Choreographed
Acquaintance Becomes Confidant
And Between Comments,
Abridged By Charlie
Angry But Calm
Addressed Big Challenges
Another Barack Conquest
Aging Bitter Clintons
Amble Back to Chappaqua
America Barely Cares
And Bill's Compact
And Big Condo
Among Black Community
Assuredly Being Closed.

Amigos Be Confident
Already Built Coalition
Any Barrier Crushed

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse geezerpk See Profile I'm a Fan of geezerpk

"Oh, your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore " it's already overcrowded from this dirty little war" " John Prine revisited from the 60s

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:57 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse JRandomPoster See Profile I'm a Fan of JRandomPoster

Why is the flag pin so important to people? Because the country is in horrible shape, they may have lost their jobs or homes, but they are still an Imperial Citizen, and want to be proud of the Empire. Obama may have said that folks cling to guns and religion, but the truth is that a lot of folks cling to the idea of Imperial America - and hence, to those folks, the trappings are important.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:11 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

Only Americans can care about something so meaningless as a flap lapel pin at a time when our civil rights are being destoyed daily, our economy sold to China, and we were lied into a terrible war fought for no reason.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:33 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse Robert59 See Profile I'm a Fan of Robert59

George should have recused himself. I don't know what he was trying to prove, throwing bones to Clinton or giving Obama a taste of what he's going to endure when it's just he and McCain. Our democracy sure looks pathetic when issues don't matter and what passes for substance is what one's pastor believes, whether you wear a flag on your lapel or not, or if you ever associated with a past member of the Weather Underground.

How about asking if either candidate believes energy independence is important? Ask how they'll get us there. Who do they have in mind as next Secretary of Energy? How about Al Gore?

As for ABC News they've decided access trumps truth. They have become tools for this administration with less balance to their stories each day. Charlie Gibson obviously believes all the lies Bush is peddling. Talk about out of touch when you think a household earning 200K a year has the same concerns as one bringing in 50K.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse gman72 See Profile I'm a Fan of gman72

Oh! How dare the media ask those icky questions to which millions of Americans want answers! Shame, shame, shame.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse Binx101 See Profile I'm a Fan of Binx101

What questions? Put up a stooge in a dress that asks about lapel pins that has been covered ad nauseum in the cartoon press and on every ABC News programs since last year? Or a pathetic old man that tells Hillary to say something that will get him back to support her ??

You think that's important ??

Perhaps most of America does too. That's how we got here.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:52 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse gman72 See Profile I'm a Fan of gman72

Don't care about the flag pin. Biggots (Mr. Wright) and pompous remarks or remarkable arrogance do concern me.

How dare we not bow down to the questions our smarter and moral superiors (leftists/progressives/liberals) consider important.

P.J. O'rourke said it best.

"The principal feature of American liberalism is sanctimoniousness. By loudly denouncing all bad things " war and hunger and date rape " liberals testify to their own terrific goodness. More important, they promote themselves to membership in a self-selecting elite of those who care deeply about such things.... It's a kind of natural aristocracy, and the wonderful thing about this aristocracy is that you don't have to be brave, smart, strong or even lucky to join it, you just have to proclaim yourself to be liberal."

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 AM on 04/18/2008
collapse AnninSoCal See Profile I'm a Fan of AnninSoCal

I disagree. This was the first debate that wasn't just about their campaign slogans.

Kudos to ABC.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:11 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse billflannigan See Profile I'm a Fan of billflannigan

The best thing about this debate is at least HRC can't claim that the "boys" were ganging up on her- she certainly wasn't the "victim" last night. The ridiculous nature of the questions- to both HRC and Obama, but esp. Obama, shows that the MSM is not interested in fulfilling their role as impartial arbiters of the truth. Why is it ok to question Obama's patriotism and his past associations, but not a single question to HRC about her current associations with Penn and her husband about their support for the Columbia trade deal? The question about Wright wasn't even factually accurate- Wright NEVER criticized America after 9/11- watch the video again, in full, and listen to what he says several minutes before and leading up to his "Chickens coming home" comment- he was repeating a Bush official who said the same thing on Fox. Anyway, I have a prediction- PA voters shock the pollsters and Obama wins PA on the strength of young voters and AA's who are rarely included in polling data b/c they either use cell phones exclusively or didn't vote in the last election so aren't called. Either way, the "debate" was a sham, the questions for the first 50 minutes didn't serve to illuminate real issues and if McBush wins, then we'll have nobody to blame but ourselves.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 05:08 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse HoosierAtty See Profile I'm a Fan of HoosierAtty

Don't you know? The bloggers here know what the real job of ABC's journalists is - making democrats look good! Never mind that some of us aren't even sure whether he loves America or not. He put on a pin and we fly-overee's need to be happy with that and "cling" to him, the way we used to cling to guns and religions before true "hope" came our way!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse realpolitic See Profile I'm a Fan of realpolitic

Thanks you so much for your open-minded approach to the issues, but at least you are not elitist which I guess is the ultimate sin.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:35 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse Justtellthetruth See Profile I'm a Fan of Justtellthetruth

I passed away during the debates last night, shortly after the lapel pin question.

I saw the tunnel, the light, and ALL that stuff you hear about, and suddenly I was surrounded by dead people that I recognized, but not my family, or friends. It was people like Reagan, Mao, Hitler, Stalin, McCarthy and Cohen, and ALL of them were wearing their respective flag lapel pins. Apparently, That's ALL their even looking at for admission these days.

So, obviously, I was quickly escorted out, and summarily sent to hell, where all my friends, family, and just about every great person I ever knew or knew of was as well. It's a great place, and I am having a blast.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:51 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse RocketmanBob See Profile I'm a Fan of RocketmanBob

So if Obama had been thrown the typical softballs, or if the moderators had shrucken away after his usual objections, then would it have somehow been insightful and revealing instead.....Sirs, you are both hypocrites.

I'm tired of this schtick; Hillary was also asked about some very embarrasing episodes.

If Senator Obama had ever been properly vetted, instead of swooned over, this would never have occurred. It is perfectly legitimate to investigate a candidates past. And, owing to his relatively sparse public exposure SENATOR OBAMA'S INNER BELIEFS AND MOTIVATIONS MUST BE INFERRED THROUGH HIS ASSOCIATIONS AS WELL AS HIS ACTIONS. We don't let klansmen, terrorists, or phonys, whether active or bystander, run for the presidency just because they seem to have developed some good ideas. The same is true for folks that hung with them; go back to the sordid Chicago machine.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse Ozarks See Profile I'm a Fan of Ozarks

RocketmanBob : "Hillary was also asked about some very embarrasing episodes" Some but not these:ï"¿
Lies about Obama"s plagiarism
Lies about Obama being Ken Starr
Lies about the Hospital Horror Story
Lies and misleading supporters about Obama's record on choice in NH
Lies about Obama's statements re: Reagan in SC
Lies about NAFTA
Lies about Ireland
Lies about the "Unconstitutional" (Fed Judge finding) MI primary
Lies about position on Fl primary
Lies about release of tax records
Lies about redacted White House papers
Lies about White House telephone logs
Lies about phony questions planted in audiences
Lies about sleep deprivation causing - she said it multiple times
Lies about Sinbad... she called him the liar
Lies about Obama being elitist
Lies about Colombia - Among Penn's clients are Countrywide Financial, nation's largest
mortgage lender, Blackwater - under investigation deaths of civilians
Lies about delegates
Lies about staying off ballots
Lies about superdelegates
Lies about Texas
Lies about Senate Telecom immunity bill
Lies about Lyle/Lieberman Iran Resolution
Lies about supporting the war
Lies about ducks
"Zeifman fired Hillary from the committee staff and refused to give her a letter of
recommendation " one of only three people who earned that dubious distinction in Zeifman"s
17-year career.
Why?
'Because she was a liar,' Zeifman said in an interview last week. 'She was an unethical, dishonest
lawyer. She conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the
committee and the rules of confidentiality.'"

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:47 PM on 04/17/2008
collapse sneener2000 See Profile I'm a Fan of sneener2000

You forgot to add that she lied about killing Vince Foster.

Zeifman has an agenda and his slant on what happened has been rebuked by MANY credible contemporaries.
Stop spotting Faux News/Rove/Gingrich talking points.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:27 PM on 04/18/2008
collapse Justtellthetruth See Profile I'm a Fan of Justtellthetruth

Hey rocketmanbob,

Regardless of whether you wish it to be true or not, the logical fallacy of "guilt by association" can NEVER, by definition, reveal or meaningfully modify the truth. It is a violation of the rules of basic logic, and is rejected out of hand by any educated person. This is not just my opinion, but rather, rates right up there with the earth being round and similar immutable truths.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:36 PM on 04/17/2008