Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate
I sat down last night with a big fat glass of wine, all excited about watching the first Democratic debate in weeks, absolutely certain that I would get the chance to hear what Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had to say about the latest headlines.
After all, it has been a quite a week for news.
In Iraq, we've seen a rebound in suicide bombings and gotten the disquieting information that Iraqi soldiers have been fleeing the battlefield in frightening numbers.
Americans learned that detailed discussions of torture techniques had been held in the White House -- our White House -- and President Bush revealed that he knew this and approved.
Foreclosure rates have spiked to frightening levels.
U.S. shoppers were told that food prices in this country are rising at a higher pace than at any time in the past 17 years.
The airline industry floundered through dreadful days of groundings, amidst safety concerns, economic ailments and passenger anger.
Oil prices are setting new records almost every day and $4 a gallon gas is coming soon to a service station near you.
The anguish over China's human rights record and its handling of Tibet turned the Olympic torch relay into a cross between Spain's Running of the Bulls and 3rd grade keep-away.
John McCain, acting like a mean old man trying to chase those pesky voters off his lawn, refused to endorse a new GI bill that would help those currently serving our country get a college education.
The Supreme Court issued a fractured opinion on the death penalty that for the first time in years raises the real possibility of a national debate on the value and morality of the ultimate punishment.
And we are in the middle of what is clearly the most important, most consequential election of my lifetime -- and I'm no spring chicken.
Instead, I sat in front of my TV open-mouthed, listening to a hodgepodge of juvenile questions about flag jewelry, the possibility of a "dream" ticket, elderly radicals, Charlie Gibson's personal tax concerns and ministers who emote too much. What, no time for a question about Cindy McCain's purloined pork chop recipe?
Excuse me, but why are we spending this much time on topics that amount to little more than political lint?
Regarding Obama's longtime pastor, since when does making a personal choice to remain close to someone who has let you down become a permanent liability? Hmm, Hillary?
As for Clinton's refusal to be a good girl and give up, since when did continuing to fight for your political life become some kind of profound character flaw? That is simply what politicians do.
And ABC -- God love you for breaking the torture debate in the White House story -- but why on earth didn't you ask the candidates about it -- or about much else that mattered?
What the heck has happened?
Just a few weeks ago, Democrats were all beaming with the belief that this election was really going to be different. Turnout was spectacular, the candidates were talking about issues that mattered and Americans were upbeat and believing in politics again.
Now it seems the unending Democratic campaign has descended into a nightmarish rolling rant about bitterness, beer, bowling and who is or isn't a bitch.
In fact, this whole thing has made me a little bitchy.
I want a rebate on the debate. I want to see someone ask a question of consequence. I want Pennsylvania to vote now. I want to turn on the TV and not see Pat Buchanan's head in a little box.
I want my life back.
This political junkie has just about had her fill of political junk food. I'll come back when there is something more substantial on the table. Until then, I guess I'll just cling to my guns, my religion and my long-ignored need to improve my bowling scores.
Because this whole presidential campaign thing has gone into the gutter.
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC's Pennsylvania Democratic debate
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Excellent point about the torture meetings. ABC broke this story and yet it's never even mentioned in the debate by Gibson or Stephanopolous??? By George, I guess the left hand now knows what the right hand is doin' over at ABC...
Great article by Mary Mapes. What is up with all the people bringing their Obama vs. Clinton flame war here when she is poking a stick at the TV news entertainment industry that is trying to divide and conquer the Democratic Party with their baiter questions? Are you
1. Incredibly brilliant and you have all coordinated a bit of blog theater to demonstrate how ugly and silly divide and conquer among Democrats looks? (in order to prove Mapes point If so Bravo!)
or
2. Are you all flaming idiots? If so, go live in a project somewhere on 100% poverty wages for a couple of months next to a waste dump. Without health insurance. Then, start telling us how you are staying home if X isn't the nominee.
amen!
Obama needs a Flavor Flav Clock sized American flag lapel pin.
well said Mary!
del8300
ie7
Any idea what Bill Burkett thinks about this?
Great post, Mary. Your laundry list of newsworthy headlines was longer than mine and reminded me of how very many issues would have made for great, serious questions had ABC actually focused on the need to discuss them. One might have expected the kind of shallowness Charlie and George exhibited had the questions been proffered on MTV.
They gave journalism a bad name Thursday night - and journalism can hardly afford the pile-on.
OBAMA 2008...RIP Hillary, the GOP, and the mainstream media!
Actually, it's hilarious how rethugs latched on to the "Bitter" line, as well as Hillary, and it's already starting to make the BIG fat circle all the way around the country to bite 'em right square on the butt!!
They were so stupid to think they could get between people and how bad they know they have it, and try to say- "Oh no, they're not mad, BITTER, or unhappy! They're PROUD Americans!!!"
"-Right folks?" ... and the -Applause!- sign- lights up!!!! ..... But nobody claps.
Instead the big majority of us are going- "Wait a minute!" THIS MAN"S TELLING IT LIKE IT IS!!!"
Yeah- how about a little truth, for a change?
Don't worry about the rethugs, and all these idiots, Mary. What people are not realizing, the networks, included, is that we have the internet now, and what a hell of a difference it's making in keeping us informed this election. This is the first general election where the internet will be strongly and all the way- widely used, (It was still very new in '04- look at the difference it made in '06) They try to keep us stupid, and dumb us down, but they are freaking out because they can't so much, anymore.
Thank God for the internet- let's keep it free.
Change the channel. Turn the damn thing off. Im just glad I know the real truth.
Go Obama!
Your points about technology are spot on. We are in a new age now. It is still in its infancy but it has already changed how we interact with each other and the processes of the world around us, in profound ways. However, the internet is a double edge sword. It does bring more quantity in terms of news sources, but that also means one interacts with a lot more low quality information. The future potential for this medium is phenomenal; elections will look very different 20yrs from now. ABC will die a slow death or transform itself to meet the demands of the new age. The current political battle is a battle between industrial interests and new world information interests (Alvin Toffler -- The Third Wave); a classic battle really. My reading suggests this is why there is so much turmoil in the world as old becomes new. It"s kind of like childbirth, painful, exhausting, and resulting in contortions and contractions, but in the end --if all goes well -- the delivery of a nation transformed for the better, for the future.
That"s my half cent.
The thing that has been hurting America dramatically for so long, and has given the MSM so much power to stupify is that so many people DON"T READ anymore.
Reading gives a person the edge, and with that edge, it is much, so much easier to decipher the truth. Lies and blatant misleading statements have a way of falling by the wayside because constant review must stand under incredible scrutiny by thousands, even millions who read.
One can argue if one wants to, or one can host or patronize whatever blog and hear and read whatever one wants. I believe it is in the beauty of the FREEDOM to access where you want that one will see what the masses will agree is the most economical, or smartest way to understand based on whats good for everybody, and there by give us what we need -the truth.
Truthfully, we just need above all else, to keep the internet free. There is a dire warning this comes with, because even now, powerful media outlets see what is happening and know this will cost them millions, and are doing everything they can to place their controls on our web. We can't let it happen. It's GOT to stay free, or then, we're really toast.
The BIGGEST MISTAKE the democrats could make would be to allow the Republicans to define the political debate with minutia, e.g. lapel flags, and retired ministers and who knows who. It seems as if the Republicans personally know their fair share of convicted felons PERSONALLY! (Libby among others)
Hillary's campaign has used this tactic to attack Obama because she lost on all other possibly fronts. She ran a poor campaign because she was not ready from day one. Hillary ran out of money. Her husband brought back the old retread southern strategy and dumped the black vote in S. Carolina.
For a woman to destroy her own kitchen, throwing it out at someone, is a desperate measure that only destroys her own home. In this case she destroyed her own democratic party. What is a home without a kitchen?
The sad part is that there was no big wig democratic who had the vision, wisdom or the stature to stop the self inflicted destruction by the Clintons to the Democratic Party. Too many of them were too morally weak to do any better, which is why they voted with Bush on so many of his tragic failure policies.
Sad - the Dems are just SAD!
Don't worry, we have all summer to get this kitchen fixed up, and we will.
Hillary'll have to eat her crow pie, and she will. -Or she can stay gone.
Hopefully this is the end....at least of debates. I'm not sure this primary will EVER end :)
to God's ear
Since when is the questioning of someone about his associations, especially when he is running for President , out of bonds and in the gutter. I guess you have changed your postion on news reporting. As one of my teachers once told me - "tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are." Hey Mary if you need a break from your life, why don't you go to Chicago and ride on over and take a look at the million dollar plus mansion that Obama's " former" pastor is having built in an all white suburb. How about an investigation into this hypocricy. Maybe the money came from Rezko.
when we are in the middle of a mess of a war. the economy is in the toilet .when people are forced to chose between a tank of gas or feeding their family for the week.when you are forced to choose between paying the mortgage or medical insurance.
Be very careful, that door swings both ways. And it might not be so pretty on the other side of the door, either.
maybe we have heard all angles of this petty bullshit that just keeps getting warmed over for republican entertainment, maybe we see the real america swirling around in the flushbowl and georgie pulled the flush handle with his cohorts....Maybe, just maybe some of us care about real issues, not feigned morality.
Be careful, Obama supporters, you are on the verge of being called whiners and too weak to fight. The deterioration of our society had been happening for awhile and debates like last night are bringing it out in the open. To think that these kind of questions were asked during a presidential debate with all that is happening in the world, actually shows what the MSM think of the intelligence of the American public.
This was purely an example of the media believing that a majority of Americans would actually prefer to watch a tabloid interview instead of a dicussion of issues.
Call me a whiner because I back Barack, but is this what our society has come to?
Obama looks at his mirror too much. Just because he has dimples and seems to thrill the nastier hacky sackers doesnt mean he's end the war, solve health care or anything else. Egotisitical guys are more concerned with size and reflection than solutions. Any of the other dems would have been better than Obama.
I found the likening of the Olympic torch relay to the running of the bulls quite amusing.
Do the right thing Pennsylvania!! You can end this carnage. Come on, I know some of you had your heart set on Hillary but you have to see that this isn't helping. The only way she can win is with the complete unraveling of the party. Plllllllllleeeeeeaaaaaaasssseeee Pensylvania, put this nomination out of it's misery.
Last night, April 16th, my husband and I were prepared to look and listen to the Clinton/Obama debate hosted by ABC. ABC should be ashamed and Mr. Stephanopoulos must have gotten his journalism degree out of a cracker jack box. Did you know he ran President Clinton's campaign, ala "Clinton's Brain", and was President Clinton's de facto press secretary and later his Senior Advisor on Policy and Strategy? Stephanopoulos was totally out of control with his character assignation of Obama. Stephanopoulos is intimately knowledgeable on the scandals of Mrs. Clinton during the days of Travel Gate, White Water, File Gate, Monica Lewinsky, Vince Foster, Cattle Futures, Bribery Allegations, Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, and Stand-by-my-man-and-bake-cookies comment,,,, but George choose not to ask her about any of that? I'm sure the republicans are going to chop her in half. I'd like to se how she can handle attacks about what she calls her "baggage". Stephanopoulos should never have been allowed to host the debate. Shame on you ABC!
I totally agree that Stephanopoulos did a hit job on Obama...about the stupidist stuff imaginable. But bringing up all the scandals of the Clinton White House. Old news. But he could have asked a dozen of other, and much more substantive, questions of Clinton: Columbia, and her husband's and senior advisors connection to a country with deplorable human rights and labor record and openly lobbying to pass legislation she says she does not support; Bill's millions from foreign government (Dubai port deal anyone)? and a foreign "investor" currently under indictment; her "I supported NAFTA before I was against it", "my campaign talked to Canada too (first!) and said nevermind, but it doesn't count", "screw-em", her condenscension toward voters in small states, caucus states, latte-sipping states, any state that didn't vote for her, how she's going to enforce her healthcare mandate (still not explained); the vastly greater proportion of campaign money she has taken from corporate (they're Americans too) lobbyists; her sudden, convenient support for gun rights; her trashing a fellow Democrat in favor of a Republican; why she isn't paying her campaign vendors, most of them struggling small businesses; why she hasn't delivered on the jobs she promised New Yorkers...there's so more, but my fingers (and mind, and heart, and soul) are getting tired. None of it past baggage, all present baggage. Where were those questions? And when will anyone question her Iran response....that was glaringly stupid, unpresidential, dangerous, and illegal.
What a friggin hypocrite you are!!
You bring up every right-wing talking point of the last 16 years to smear the Clintons, then you talk about ABC's character assassination of Barack Obama. The questions were stupid, but nobody assasinated Obama's character.
Obama Thugocrats are absolutely shameless.
The point is, the Republicans are literally salivating at the prospect of being able to throw ALL of the events related to the Clinton presidency at Hillary. Only a fool would believe her assertions that everything has been said and resolved, and there is nothing more to say about her. Just replaying her words and actions in this campaign will be damaging enough. In any event, this "debate" just illustrated why we are losing our stature in the world, and why very soon it won't even matter - unless we can summon the will to really take back control of the process and do our part to change the trajectory. It was pathetic, to say the least.
Here's a question: if she is so great and has done so much, why does Senator Clinton spend 90%+ of her time attacking Barack Obama? Why does she think we don't see and appreciate her "record?" HMMMMMMM.
NinaE's complaints don't seem hypocritical to me. She just asks why the trivial pursuit did not include Mrs. Clinton (except for the one item which could not be overlooked, as the untruths about Bosnia were obvious and had no other interpretation). I really don't recall anyone confronting her with "the baggage" at a debate. She says she has been thoroughly vetted, but I guess I missed it. Could someone provide me a link about such a confrontation at a televised debate? I would like to see how expertly she handled it.
Maybe you should have supplied the moderators with forged documents and really gotten the debate going. It almost worked once before.
Troll Alert!!!
Did you get that bit of drollery from Hannity or Limbaugh?
If there is one more debate I may have to slit my wrists! Maybe a sharp flag pin would serve my purpose. Thank God for cable. I switched channels and watched "Must Love Dogs".
i think you are safe.
"This political junkie has just about had her fill of political junk food. I'll come back when there is something more substantial on the table."
Good luck!
The only thing the MSM and their corporate masters know or want to serve up is what we witnessed last evening.
It is your profession. You tell us how you folks regulate yourselves?
Ms. Mapes is right. This is the type of discourse you'd expect from some country like Myanmar turning into a democracy overnight, not the self-elected leader of the world.
you obama lemmings really need to grow a pair if you hope to even remotely survive the general election....
And you better start working out if your going to to carry your ol'fart across the finish line
So, you're OK with the vapid nature of our public discourse in this country? I suppose you agree that Fox really is "fair & balanced" also.
Personally, I love the internet because it challenges the unholy depths to which the mainstream media has sunk over time. We used to have Cronkite and Murrow and Brinkley and even Buckley providing non-partisan news reporting & substantive analysis. Now we have talking hairdos & a complacent public.
But, hey, as long as you think it's great...
Posted April 17, 2008 | 02:41 PM (EST)