Talk to Women for A Change

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Posted April 18, 2008 | 12:05 PM (EST)



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It is ironic that the Pennsylvania primary is being held on Equal Pay Day. That's the day in April every year when women's earnings finally catch up with what men made by December 31 of the previous year. The pay gap is still a stubborn problem, with women who work full time, year-round making 77 cents to a man's dollar. And, women are losing ground when it comes to how long it takes to pull even with men - a decade ago Equal Pay Day was April 11.

Hillary Clinton knows a thing or two about the issue, having sponsored hearings and introduced legislation on the subject. It's front page on her website, and it's a good thing that she's addressing one of the issues that consistently polls near the top with women. After all, females are the majority in both registration and turnout, and have the power to control any election.

The website is a direct appeal to Hillary's strongest supporters -- women old enough to have experienced enough discrimination at work to know the pay gap and the glass ceiling are real. But last Wednesday's final debate before the Pennsylvania primary showed us something else: Hillary is timid about speaking directly to or for women when she has the opportunity to reach millions of us on national television. It's hard to guess why -- there's no question she could harvest far more votes by getting back to her female base instead of tromping around in the political backwoods looking for white male hunters. If she must talk about guns, talk about the fears that women express about their kids getting shot at school, or getting raped at gunpoint.

The first viable female candidate in history, one that I know supports women, shouldn't be uncomfortable with "women's issues." And what about putting a gender lens on the concerns at the top of the marquee this year? The economy is now polling higher on the worry meter than the war, and women have a fundamentally different view of the economy than men. Not having enough money to gamble in the big casino, they don't worry as much about the stock market. They do worry about being the group with the lowest paying jobs and the fewest benefits. And oh yeah - a hidden fact in the mortgage crisis is that female borrowers were the primary targets of the sub-prime loan sharks, meaning women-headed households, primarily women of color, are losing their homes in greater numbers than other families.

Even though the war has slipped to number two, women are still more anti-war than men. Women also view the war's cost in terms of the loss of the social safety net, since adult females and their children are the largest group in poverty. Why not mention that? And looking toward the face-off with McCain in November, here's a surprising result uncovered by Lifetime Television in a poll last year: Republican women are slightly more anti-war than Democratic women. Combine that with the fact that there are millions of pro-choice Republican female voters, and a direct appeal to women seems like a no-brainer.

Senator Clinton did include "daughters" in the debate when talking about troop losses in Iraq, and loss of life due to lack of health insurance. But she didn't mention that the health care crisis affects women more deeply, because fewer have employer-paid plans. Almost 20% of the women in this country have no health insurance, and the numbers skyrocket for women of color, with 38% of Hispanic women going without coverage. That's a group inclined to vote for Hillary Clinton, but they need encouragement.

Don't take this as Hillary bashing. Call it Hillary helping. This is one seasoned feminist who's for her all the way. She can do it - she just needs to talk to women on their own terms and not shy away from being direct. Embrace us every day, as she's doing now leading up to Equal Pay Day and the Pennsylvania primary. (I know Obama doesn't talk to women either - but he's not one of us, and let's face it, we have lower expectations of him in that department. It's one place where he benefits from gender bias.)

Perhaps Senator Clinton fears the dreaded word "feminist," or doesn't want to be seen pandering to women. My question is why not? Women are her base. I say go ahead and pander. We support you. Stick with women -- it's a winning strategy.

 
 

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- talkstocoyotes See Profile I'm a Fan of talkstocoyotes

Wow - you mean all those 20-somethings who are telling us, based on their lifetime of experience, that "all the battles have been won" are wrong? Whodathunkit?

If this primary season has proved anything it's that hostility toward assertive women in general, and older women in particular, has been grossly underestimated. And racism and white guilt have been overestimated to the point of fantasy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 PM on 04/19/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

YAY you!

the belief these "kids" have that they aren't facing sexism has become almost farcical in this campaign. The divisive and venomous use of it against both Clinton and her supporters on so called Progressive blogs is a vivid reminder of how prevalent it is and the acceptance by the "girls" and young women as both sad amd infuriating as they seem to either be blind to it or are so blinded with Hillary Hate that they prefer to cater to the "boys" who are using it by both denying it exists while employing its tactics.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:52 AM on 04/20/2008
- Gibbons See Profile I'm a Fan of Gibbons

Maybe he doesn't lie but he has mis-represented the truth several times on the NAFTA meeting which he and the prime minister denied ever happened, when the memo came out they both said yes it happened but was not about NAFTA. Were they lying again? Fact check said no but gave no proof. He also said he never heard his pastor say anything bad about America yet they had a meeting where Wright said if you make it through the primaries you will need to distance yourself from me. Later he said if Wright had not left the church he Obama would have left it, he is very good about would haves such as the vote on the war in hindsight he says he would have voted against it,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 AM on 04/19/2008
- Gibbons See Profile I'm a Fan of Gibbons

I suppose when Clinton is elected president there will be a move among the testosterone crowd to roll back her salary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:01 AM on 04/19/2008
- XYZ See Profile I'm a Fan of XYZ

Is the thought of a Women President, empowering?

With Hillary's track record she will use you all up until she has no use for you, and then drop you like a used car, at the end of the ride. Just look at what she is doing to MoveOn a foundation that was founded for her Husband's impeachment issues, now that they disagree with her she tossed them out the window.

Why is it that women fall into this character judgment trap? Hillary doesn't care about the feminist cause she cares only about being president.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:52 AM on 04/19/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

what is she doing to Move On?
She analyzed what her campaign is facing and how Move On factors into it.
She never said anything that could be remotely construed as "against" Move On. How did she throw them out the window? Did she issue a statement that she repudiates them for their _________. No. Obama is the one who throws his supporters, friends, family and pastor to the dogs which is very dissapointing. You people (and I use that term consciously to name a certain segment of Obama supporters) are consistently looking for something to use against Clinton or inventing something that isn't there.

Why not be pro Obama instead of anti Hillary. I see very little of actual PRO Obama comment posting. Maybe you aren't as rabidly for Obama as you are anti Clinton.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:00 AM on 04/20/2008
- Gibbons See Profile I'm a Fan of Gibbons

You have just defined yourself as a chauvinist with your comment "why do women" grow up a woman president wont castrate you.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 AM on 04/19/2008
- Gibbons See Profile I'm a Fan of Gibbons

The thought of a woman president scares the S**t out of a lot of white males and of course most blacks are voting race which is their privilege since a lot of white women will vote gender.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 AM on 04/19/2008
- PhDiva See Profile I'm a Fan of PhDiva

Hillary Clinton supports middle-class and wealthy white women. She does not support poor women or women of color. I'm a black woman and a feminist. I know the difference between somebody who supports all women and somebody who only supports women who are exactly like her. Hillary Clinton is the latter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 04/19/2008
- maggieb See Profile I'm a Fan of maggieb

And what exactly is the evidence to your claims? I am also black and disagree totally with inference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/19/2008
- mildawalters See Profile I'm a Fan of mildawalters

The main reason Hillary cannot focus too much on stricktly women's issues is that she still needs more voters than just women to win. "Feminist-type" comments may turn off some of those neccessary white males - who may be the slim edge for her. After all, the main goal is to get Hillary Clinton elected, so I am quite willing to give her the space to deal with the battle any way she and her campaign staff deem best .

What I find very discouraging is the women in my age group (I am 73) who spout Hillary-hating propaganda and say they would never vote for her. None of them, however, have a specific cause for that hate. Where is that coming from????

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:24 PM on 04/18/2008
- talkstocoyotes See Profile I'm a Fan of talkstocoyotes

***What I find very discouraging is the women in my age group (I am 73) who spout Hillary-hating propaganda and say they would never vote for her. None of them, however, have a specific cause for that hate. Where is that coming from????***

A desire for acceptance. Hillary-bashing is fashionable this year.

And, needless to say, uppity-woman-bashing is fashionable anytime. Some of the women buying into the hate rhetoric and the double standards are the same ones who, 30 years ago, were giving local newspaper interviews about their success in business that being careful to include the requisite coy reference to "not being a women's libber." Age doesn't always bring wisdom if you were an airhead to begin with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:05 PM on 04/19/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

Amen girl!

a need to show how hip you are.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:24 AM on 04/20/2008
- Boadicea See Profile I'm a Fan of Boadicea

It's coming from the way she has conducted her campaign.

For over a decade I have despised the way the Republicans have campaigned - using twisted words, inuendo, guilt by association, outright lies.... to destroy Democrats. Now, when I have an opportunity to vote against that destructive politics, Hillary, my first preferred candidate, is out there embracing it and going one better than Rove. How can I support that?

At this point, in my view, anyone who calls herself a feminist can't possibly condone Hillary's candidacy.

I sometimes imagine how different things could have been if Hillary had run as a real woman instead of as a man in women's pantsuits. The author of this article has a good point - Hillary could have done much better running with a woman's perspective, because this country is filled with male feminists now too.

But I disagree that Obama doesn't speak to women. He speaks to women every day with every word by the way he runs his inclusive campaign. He doesn't privilege the wealthy donors, he bases his campaign on the regular folks. He never minimized voters in states he lost. He considers that every single state and vote is important. He believes in reaching out to those we disagree with. He believes in listening to all sides.

These are all feminist values that Hillary has chosen to eschue. It was her choice, and I believe she made the wrong one.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:06 PM on 04/18/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

BS.

To all of it.

The Hillary Hate started long before the race was down to the two of them and frankly Senator Obama is no better in his campaigning.

His surrogates played the race card. almopst half of his money comes from billionaires who are bundlking money.

Do not be taken in by framing.
The neocons framed how to think about Hillary clinton and the Obama campaign and the far left picked it up and ran with it.

I don't care who people vote for but they should do it without pretense, mischaracterization and hate.

It makes me suspect that the vote they are casting For someone is not nearly as strong as the hate they are expousing against someone.

BTW, how do you know he doesn't privelege his wealthy doners?
Have you ever gotten a personal email or visit?
I haven't.
Stop being silly, open your eyes and see the person not the ideal and that goes for Clinton too. Open your eyes and see the person not what people want you to see, not the demonic harridan that the haters present.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/20/2008
- gayleg See Profile I'm a Fan of gayleg

Obama speaks to women? How so, exactly?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 AM on 04/20/2008
- misspeach2008 See Profile I'm a Fan of misspeach2008

i think it speaks volumes that a missing story (nothing is posted) has over 600 comments posted, and there are fewer than 20 posts on a column about speaking to women's issues in this campaign. I'm not surprised, but sad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:28 PM on 04/18/2008
- onelovecandy See Profile I'm a Fan of onelovecandy

Miss Peach is just goes to show there is more at stake here than women's issues. I would no more vote for Obama because he is black than I would for Hilary because she is a woman. In the eyes of a lot of women Hillary set us back mostly by sticking with Bill. I too was for her initially but soon cooled to the negativity of her campaigning.
Our politics should never be about black or white, male or female, democrat or republican for that matter. Who is the best person for the job. Period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:11 PM on 04/19/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

as far as The women who believe HRC set women back by not divorcing Bill are very narrow in their vision and projecting what they think they would do. The point of the feminist movement was not to enforce some standard on how women should behave in a given situation it was to break those strictures, to give women the right to divorce... or NOT.
"There is more at stake here than women's issues" There is also more at stake here than Hillary Clinton's husband's zipper.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:00 AM on 04/20/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

"...but soon cooled to the negativity of her campaigning. "

Well, Obama's campaigning has been just as negative. He and Axelrod have framed it differently but his attacks have been evident all along.

I was against Clinton until the negativity and passive aggressive attacks by Obama turned me off.

The fact that Obama attacks passive aggressively and manipulates impressions through framing both for himself and against Clinton is no more reason to vote against him as it is no reason to vote against Clinton for her standing out front in her aggression and attacks. It is also no reason to vote for him.

As you said... "Who is the best person for the job.Period." and
There is also more at stake than voting for someone based on the way they campaign, both of their styles can serve them and the country and both can harm.

Who is best for the job is exactly right and I don't hold Obama's disingenuous framing and underhanded attacks against him and I don't hold Hillary Clinton's aggressive elbowing against her either.

Just because you say you are doing politics differently doesn't mean you actually are.

As Barack has said "this is a race for President of the United States... not a "... vote for student body President. (can't remember his actual phrase) the same goes for him too.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:58 AM on 04/20/2008
- maggieb See Profile I'm a Fan of maggieb

Onelovecandy, how could hillary's sticking with Bill be any reason for you or anyone to think that set you back? What is setting you back is the notion that peol do not have the right to assess and resolve their personal situations for themselves. You dont need to rationalize your dislike for Hillary with such a flimsy excuse. I can no more choose for you than you for anyone else..."pro-choice" is should not only be a narrow spectrum through which some selectively view life. Hillary is free to stay with her husband as you are free to not vote for her, but be honest about your reason. Hillary is the best person for this job and it is intellectually dishonest to say otherwise.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:41 PM on 04/19/2008
- halfdemhalfgop See Profile I'm a Fan of halfdemhalfgop

Thats why ABC should not be blamed for the debate the other night. Its what most people want to talk about. All groups from both the Dem's and Gop are the same. Give us the dirt

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:49 AM on 04/19/2008
- Boadicea See Profile I'm a Fan of Boadicea

The story has been there all along, go look again.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/18/2008
- SLal See Profile I'm a Fan of SLal

I work with a few younger women in their 20s-early 30s who are completely oblivious to the "glass ceiling" in my industry. I heard women in my office openly laugh against a joke from a male office worker that was in completely poor taste, and was sexually derisive of women. I am shocked at how oblivious that women are to the fact of wage inequity and to the glass ceiling. The famous quote applies - in response to an up-and-coming young woman who dismissed the glass ceiling as a myth, the her mentor replied "just wait".

Young women are snoozing through this historical time, and accepting the spin that Hllary, while a competent leader, is "just not the right woman", they act as as though there will be a stream of other candidates in the future. They are following the pied piper in this Stepford-ish manner, waving Barack signs high and reveling in their use of the female power to do so. It's shocking, and completely dismissive of the efforts that others have made to create the forward progress that has been made to-date. Equal Pay Day reminds us of the stark reality, and how much further we have to go.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:26 PM on 04/18/2008
- ohmercy See Profile I'm a Fan of ohmercy

well said.

They also think sexism is a thing of the past.

But another thing about the dismissive attitude of the efforts made by those who came before is that it mirrors Obama's own dismissive comments toward those who fought the fights of the past. It may be time to leave the fights of the past behind and quite another to dismiss those who fought those fights as somehow irrelevant now. It seems to me if the fights of the past had actually accomplished their goals dismissing them would not be something any one would do with such carelessness.
The fact that sexism is still so deeply ingrained into the American psyche as to be essentially invisible and be plausibly deniable by so many is proof that those fights are not over. The fact that rather than having some feeling of gratitude toward those who have made it possible for an African American and a woman to finally run for President it is acceptable to toss them aside as somehow "the problem" is proof that those fights have not gone far enough.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 AM on 04/20/2008
- Jjc2006 See Profile I'm a Fan of Jjc2006

Bravo. I have seen some young women actually mock older women who speak about the concerns of the "glass ceiling", the caretaking most women still do of both the elderly and the children. It's a sneering attitude toward other women that bothers me most. I thought we had gotten past that.
Their complete and utter inability to see through the lies of the media and people at this blog really gets to me. Hillary is condemned while former right wingers like Ms. Huffington are treated as credible and honest. Has this site disclosed that their biggest investor is an Obama guy? Have young women here even questioned the lies and spins. One minute Hillary is blasted for being emotional (termed fake) and then blasted for being cold and calculating. How can women not see the bias in that kind of crap?

I have decided that the once again the overwhelmingly male press again spins so they can keep their power. When other women come here and repeat the same lies and spin, it is most disconcerting. Maybe they think it will get them more male admirers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:47 AM on 04/19/2008
- TheEnticer See Profile I'm a Fan of TheEnticer

Isn't this a good thing that the young women of today havent faced the glass ceiling and probably never will?

Just because the previous generation did, should we remind the next generation of those old wounds and keep the pain alive so that a bunch of women (feminists like Martha) can rule? Your logic defies reason..

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:20 PM on 04/18/2008
- SLal See Profile I'm a Fan of SLal

The glass ceiling metaphor is intentional - the "glass" part means that you can't see it, and don't would not know that it even exists until you bump your head against it. Younger women don't take it at word, and from history and current data, that it exists as they have not bumped their head against it. It has not gone away, as equal pay day reminds, us and therefore I am not talking about old wounds but rather problems that persist, though in insidious forms.

Not my logic, as I did not coin the term nor the concept of a glass ceiling, or of equal pay day.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 04/19/2008
- talkstocoyotes See Profile I'm a Fan of talkstocoyotes

***Isn't this a good thing that the young women of today havent faced the glass ceiling and probably never will? ***

No it isn't.

The glass ceiling was invisible 30 years ago, until a young woman's breasts and belly started to sag. Then she started being told to "lighten up".

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 04/19/2008
- mildawalters See Profile I'm a Fan of mildawalters

Great comment!! I am in total agreement on the points regarding younger women's attitutes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 04/18/2008
- SFreeborn See Profile I'm a Fan of SFreeborn

I understand your frustration, but do you really think that in any historical sense that electing a former President's wife is a signal of achieving equality? Perhaps some young women want to teach their daughter more than what Hillary is offering.

I also think that these young women's families did not teach them what they need to know, if it is apparent that they do not know what earlier generations of women have pioneered. I'd say this calls for a new round of consciousness raising so that we get a woman candidate that embodies the feminist values that we so prize.

Finally, if in any way we can call Hillary Clinton feminist, it still does not excuse her adoption of the very patriarchal tradition of character smear, anything goes, or the win at all costs style of her campaign. While I do my best to teach my grandchildren a set of values that is inclusive, it isn't lost on the eight year old when Hillary lied about sniper fire. We owe our children a better quality historical figure. Can't we find a female Abraham Lincoln somewhere?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 04/18/2008
- texanna See Profile I'm a Fan of texanna

See, SFreeborn, you're very first sentence is so very typical of the misgyny rampant in this country and in this particular primary. You completely leave out Sen. Clinton's Senate for New York and refer to her only as a former President's wife. Now why is that? Why is it so easy for you to denigrate and insult as if the only reason she were elected more than once by the people of New York state is because she was somebody's wife?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 AM on 04/19/2008