Legal Experts Weigh In On Bush Torture Meetings

With nine months remaining in President George W. Bush's term, virtually no legal analyst expects that anyone in his administration will face indictment and prosecution in connection with the torture of terrorism detainees. However, a new admission from Bush last week has some legal analysts contending that the case for such prosecution has gotten significantly stronger.

ABC News reported on Apr. 9 that then-National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice chaired an informal panel of top administration officials that approved specific brutal interrogation tactics for use on three suspected Al Qaeda detainees. The panel consisted of Vice President Dick Cheney, and former administration officials -- Donald H. Rumsfeld, then defense secretary, Colin L. Powell, the former secretary of state, George Tenet, the former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, and John Ashcroft, then attorney general. This group debated for use on detainees -- and eventually approved -- methods of abuse like being "slapped, pushed, deprived of sleep or subjected to simulated drowning, called waterboarding," ABC reported.

Read the whole story here.

Comments

[lugotz2]

THE TRUTH WILL HURT THEM,,

[rmreddicks]

We should all attempt to commit our communities to a course of action like Brattleboro, Vermont. We won't all succeed but with enough attempts someone will notice. I intend to contact a couple of lawyer friends here in Covington, KY to see about getting the ball rolling locally. I'd prefer to not be the pointman on this publicly (strictly for non-monetary selfish reasons) so if anyone from Cov is reading this feel free to contact me.

[kfdan]

These crimes along with the planning and execution of 9/11 would allow for an international trial under mass murder, illegal torture and war crimes! Bush and his criminal cronies need to be pushed in that direction. It's clear that prosecution in the U.S. will not most likely happen!

[lugotz2]

BRAVO KFDAN,,
BUT THE REPUBS, MEDIA, OR THE PUBLIC DONT WANT TO,, REFUSE TO HEAR THE TRUTH , FACTS, I POSTED A LIST OF OVER 30 THINGS THAT DIRECTLY IMPLICATES THIS ADMIN, IN 9/11,, ? THE 2 ILLEGAL WARS,,? OVER OIL ? THE CONSTAND DEVERSIONS, LIES, AND PLANNED DISTRACTIONS,,, PRE-THOUGHT,, EVEN THE MODERN DAY MASS MURDER THATS CONTINUEING ? in the health care industrys,, all of them, causing more deaths daily then 9/11,,, i cant wait to see what they will try before the election,, after all,, 81 % dislike the illegall wars or the economy, BOTH MCCAIN AND CLINTON,, ARE WITH THE TERRORIST DEFENSE DEPT,, and will keep the troops,, untill the pipeline, in afganistan is built,, and the cia, like nam gets the herion market,, convienient,, i think not,,, the next president,,,,, OBAMA,,, SHOULD WITHDRAWL ALL TROOPS WITHIN 60 DAYS,, CHARGE THIS ADMIN, WITH WAR CRIMES IN THE WORLD COURT,,
WATERBOARD THEM ALL , IN GUATANAMO, WITH NO ACCESS TO ANYTHING, INCLUDIND THERE LAWYERS,, FREEZE ACCOUNTS OF HALIBURTON AND BLACKWATER AND ASSOSIETS,,, RELEASE THE MANEY CURES THAT WERE FOUND ? GLOBAL WARMING ?,,
BUT EVERYONE IS JUST PHESANTS,,LOL,, WE KNOW NOTHING,, UNLESS THEY WANT US TO KNOW IT,, brainwashing 101, ? it will be one of the biggest scandles when they leave office,,
JUST WATCH THE PARDENS HE GIVES,, REPLYS /DEBATES WELCOME,,

[loki]

Since Bush has illegally destroyed computer records without making the back ups as required under the law, and all the other records destroyed, emails sent outside of white house loop so they are harder to trace and link, as well as a plethora of other illegal activities that are not only known of , and even admitted to by the Bush administration and Bush himself, you would think they could do something.
But for some reason there seems to be this unwritten agreement that you dont prosecute a president unless he gets a blow job, and you especially dont pursue any legal action the minute a president is no longer in office. No wonder these people do whatever they want, they know the odds of anything ever happening to them are so slim, they can do as they please.

[rmreddicks]

I wonder if those erased emails will show up at the bush library once he leaves office? Of course the library may simply consist of myriad copies of "My Pet Goat".

[truthyguy]

Before he leaves office Bush is going to pardon everyone in sight of his administration, including himself and Cheney. It is going to be the biggest constitutional scandal of all.

[Gayrove]

Hang the b*****rds from the nearest and higjhest telephone pole. If they want to do away with our civilized heritage, give them what they want: Lynching of their capitals.

[loki]

Thats way to good for them. I think we should make them and their capitalist buddies all work minimum wage jobs , no benefits, and live like the people they abused all these years. Then after 20 years of that, hang em all. Or maybe just the old indian fillet torture would work. But wait, we dont torture.

[MufsMom]

They admit they had the meeting and Chimpy says "Yeah, and what ya gonna do about it?" The case for a war crimes trial just got stronger-YA THINK?

[loki]

doesnt matter how strong it gets. YOu could have video , signed confessions by Bush and Cheney themselves. It isnt going to happen. No politician in the US has the balls to do it, and Bush has used a lot of Tax Payer money to make sure other countries will cover his butt for him. Did you catch how PM Brown of England said that the world owes a Debt of Gratitude to Bush for keeping the world safe from terrorist. That is what is known as the set up. And you know others will follow suite as soon as they get their bank accounts filled to the brim with tax payer money. You ever wonder why all these billions of dollars go missing with no one investigating it? Paying off world leaders is not a cheap thing todo.

[Burkelbile]

No pardons from President Obama for any of them.

I wonder if Cheney have anything in common with his new big, ugly hairy cellie?

Don't suppose it'll matter much - Dick will be facing the other way.

[nohobear]

I am fully expecting the Chimp to issue blanket pardons before he is done. Can anyone knowledgeable about the subject tell us if there is any way to prevent Bush from granting pardons? If he was under impeachment, would that nullify his power to pardon while still in office?

[XYZ]

You cannot grant a pardon into the future. There is no constitutional basis, plus if there was it would be a total farce.

For example :
If I was president I could pardon my self from obeying any law in the future. There is no constitutional precedent, no law precedent for this. I could pardon everyone from the law with this type of power, one could become president, and determine no law applies to anyone, with the type of pardon you seek.

However there is one caveat, and I don't know if the supreme court would uphold a judgment against a president for conducting foreign policy. There is a-lot of case law for that and most of it finds the president not guilty for conducting anything of foreign policy.

[loki]

What does constitutional basis , or the constitution matter to Bush? It never has before

[AndrewInToronto]

Nuremberg Principle II:

"The fact that internal law does not impose a penalty for an act which constitutes a crime under international law does not relieve the person who committed the act from responsibility under international law."

Nuremberg Principle III:

"The fact that a person who committed an act which constitutes a crime under international law acted as a Head of State or responsible Government official does not relieve him from responsibility under international law."

[AndrewInToronto]

The laws under which conviction would be sought need not be those promulgated solely within the United States. They would be violations of international law by which the US as a signatory is obligated to abide as they become domestic law. Bush cannot pardon anyone from those which would make a brilliant irony should he be tried under the Nuremberg Principles, for instance, which he personally defended this year in trying to seek executions for some held at Guantanamo. He and his ilk could find themselves if charged with being in the unenviable position of, say, Pinochet in London in October 1998 or Honecker in Moscow in 1991 in the Chilean Embassy. They would become fugitives from justice held up in their own country. They could always pay Kissinger a visit for some coffee and chat about the 'good ole days.'

[AndrewInToronto]

One word: YES ! Like grandfather, like father, like son.

While they may be found guilty though never imprisoned, I would love to see history document these people's violations of international laws to which the US is a signatory. Former US Attorney Ramsey Clark found the first Bush Administration guilty of 19 counts of crimes against humanity over Kuwait and Iraq. I can remember reading how Prescott Bush (a partner of the Union Banking Corp.) was found to have ties to managing funds for the the Hamburg-Amerika Line, which was a company set up by the IG Farben group which used concentration-camp labour in manufacturing; was involved in the production of Zyklon B used in the extermination camps of Majdanek and Auschwitz.... He also managed funds for other Nazi front-companies: the Holland-American Trading Corp., the Seamless Steel Equipment Corp., the Silesian-American Corp., and the Thyssens.

According to US Justice Dept. Nazi war criminal investigator, John Loftus:

"The Bush family fortune that helped put two members of the family in the White House can be traced directly to the Third Reich."

Bush's grandfather and great-grandfather received $1.5 million in 1951 when the bank was dissolved.

[bushmocker]

I had no idea how much criminal activity a sitting President could engage in without retribution.No wonder HRC wants that job.

[kettletop]

They don't hate us for our freedom--they hate us for our hypocracy.
We must investigate this and there must be real consequences or we will never regain the trust of our allies and the moral authority to suggest that other countries follow treaties and respect human rights.
I saw on Jon Stewart where they had a clip of every single one of these people publically insisting that we do not torture. How are we different from China?

[champislove]

Please , Please Somebody put this fool in jail and hide the keys. He needs to be whipped, tar, and whipping again. The something needs to put him in a tub of water about 211 degrees."I don't want it to boil him, I want him to suffer. Suffer like those familes that have lost there love ones. As you can see I reave love this guy, RIGHT/

[lornejl]

This patriotic fella always wore a flag pin...

http://www.firstworldwar.com/features/graphics/hitler_fuhrer.jpg

[hannitizer]

one by one
the callous calls for inhumanity revisited
echo from the swollen lips of ego-driven fools

drooling with anticipation
driven by rage and revenge they heinously hoist hyperbole
as though means can be justified by potentially positive ends

pain and sorrow
ruthless results of this godforsaken reality
inhumanely unseen by self-assuring eyes

torture! beyond the pale
they act with no conscience of mind
these perverse and foolish souls on their way to Karma

Originally posted 11-14-2007

[Driver125]

You know it had to be bad when Ashcroft turned out to be the moderate among them.

[drkazmd65]

Ain't that the gospel truth Driver125.

Ashcroft looks like a friggin' Constitution-loving, straight-talking hero compared to Gonzales and Mukasey as AG. How did Bush slip up so bad in making that (relatively anyway) good an appointment as AG right off the starting line?

It's been downhill for Bush/Cheney as regards the rest of us Americans since then.

[ljsfolly]

Hillary is same as McCain and there will be noting ever done to the criminals but with Barack we might, might see something done. Can we take the chance on two people who are as republican as anyone who calls themself republican. Hillary has only worn the democrat hat since her marriage to Bill and even he has betrayed us. I will never forget the lies he told and the wagged finger at me a citizen of the US. I care not if he lied about sex or whatever he lied to me. He lied to you. His wife lied to us all and she laughed about being caught not that she did it.

[FreedomCorpse]

George Bush will be a free man as long as justice never sees the light of day in the government of the United States of America

[Abycat]

If you take this country to war to get re-elected is it a crime?

[ohnoyoudidnot!]

Which is exactly why they will be prosecuted by an international court, like the Nazi's after WWII.

[nohat]

Bush will not be prosecuted in an international court. Neither will Blair. Not the Hague anyway...and probably not anywhere, ever. It's a pipe dream.

[ohnoyoudidnot!]

On what do you base your opinion?

[Shaddup]

Ah, I can dream, anyway.

[kellygrrrl]

FYI Ladies: if you chip the red paint on your Flag Pin, you can use your WalMart red nail polish to patch that baby up!

It'll get you through the day before you can dash out and get a new Flag Pin

xo

[helonias]

Red nail polish made in Red China, thats the ticket.

[GoLeftGoDeep]

I must say, I agree with these Republican on the imperative to preserve "rule of law"

Speaker of the House Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX): "This nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law.....No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That's the principle that we all hold very dear in this country."

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) : "I will have no part in the creation of a constitutional double-standard to benefit the President. He is not above the law. If an ordinary citizen committed these crimes, he would go to jail."

Rep. James Sensebrenner (R-WI): "What is on trial here is the truth and the rule of law."

Senator Chuck Hagel (R-NE): "....How can the rule of law for every American be applied equally if we have two standards of justice in America--one for the powerful and the other for the rest of us?"

quotes from the Clinton impeachment era ... chickens coming home to roose

[V4Vigilance]

"chickens coming home to roose"

Did you mean to type "chickens coming home to a ruse"?

OBAMA 08

[GoLeftGoDeep]

I meant chickens coming home to roost ...

they insisted on the "rule of law" and that no one, not even the president is above the law ... time for those principles to be laid at the feet of this administration ... a lot of criminal behavior they need to be held to account for ... called "rule of law"

[Burkelbile]

chickens coming home to a dirty house?

[dwillisno1]

Maybe chickens coming home to a rooster?

[bikerdude]

Send a copy of that to Speaker Pelosi and ask her when she will begin impeachment proceedings to enforce the rule of law. We MUST hold these perps accountable...