Southern Border Fence Would Endanger Species

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Washington Post   |  Juliet Eilperin   |   April 19, 2008 10:15 PM


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The debate over the fence the United States is building along its southern border has focused largely on the project's costs, feasibility and how well it will curb illegal immigration. But one of its most lasting impacts may well be on the animals and vegetation that make this politically fraught landscape their home.

Some wildlife researchers have grown so concerned about the consequences of bisecting hundreds of miles of rugged habitat that they have talked of engaging in civil disobedience to block the fence's construction.

"This wall is so asinine, and so wrong, I am one of a dozen scientists ready to lay our bodies down in front of tractors," Healy Hamilton, who directs the Center for Biodiversity Research and Information at the California Academy of Sciences, told colleagues at a recent scientific retreat here. "This is one thing we might be able to stop."

"Make it 13!" said Allison Jones, a conservation biologist at the Wild Utah Project, an advocacy group.

Hamilton and Jones have yet to throw themselves before bulldozers, but their call to arms reflects the researchers' growing fears that the wall will imperil species that, in Hamilton's words, "walk, fly or crawl across that border."

Read the whole story here.

 
 

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Sunday's incident was the second deadly rollover within seven days that involved a load of illegal entrants being smuggled into the United States.
Last Monday, a van loaded with illegal entrants rolled off Interstate 10 east of Benson, officials said. A 21-year-old Guatemalan woman was killed and local hospitals treated 29 of the passengers for injuries.
The driver of the van, Jesus Espinoza-Martinez, 31, of Mexico, was charged with two counts of criminal smuggling and could face life in prison.

From The Arizona Daily Star.

Those 29 passengers are being treated to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

On the American taxpayer's head......................................

Remember this the next time someone starts in on how much illegals "contribute" to this country
because it is utter crap.

These 29 will cost more than all the taxes I have paid my entire life.

And these van rollovers occur all the time.

Down to one Level 1 trauma center in southern Arizona.

At one time, there were at least 4.

Why? ILLEGALS!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:17 PM on 04/20/2008

I would think that there could be a solution to the walls, in that openings, animal-friendly gates, etc., could be installed periodically, and the animals directed to the openings, until routes are established. The gates could be monitored at a distanct location and the gates opened, when animal activity is around. However, electrify the gates when they are not in use for animal activity, and keep the smugglers of people and drugs out.

I live in the Houston, TX area and have been a progressive all my life, but illegal immigrants are doing much to destroy our quality of life and even safety here. We see illegal immigrant after illegal immigrant commit serious offenses here. Two illegal immigrants went on a carjacking and theft spree last week, and hijacked three women in three days at gunpoint, robbed convenience stores, and then attacked a woman who had to fight back, as her four month old was in the back seat of the car, and they stabbed her to death. One was caught, as they had very good video of the two robbing a convenience store just ten minutes before the fatal carjacking, and he has antibiotic resistant tuberculosis, to top it off. They fear that the second man, who was the knifer, has fled back to Mexico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 PM on 04/20/2008

I live in South Texas... am porgressive... but you cant sem to get people to understand the scope of the problem. This is not the U.S. 30 years ago. The high payning fatcory jobs for immigrants and droputs are gone. Thats leaves gangs, drugs and crime unfortunatley for many.


They also dont undertsand that the areas being hardest hit are the hispanic communities in the southwest. They are the first to get the new illegals as their neighbors and to have single family housing turned into boarding houses. Its their schools which get hit the hardest and the dropout rates soar as the gangs increase.


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:26 PM on 04/20/2008

I am sick and tired of both the liberal bleeding heart do-gooder mentality that loves every nationality on the planet except Americans, and the right-wing conservative mentality that will sell out this country just to make a profit.

First and foremost, the US is a political entity, not an economic entity, so it disgusts me when many Americans are willing undermine the US political system and ours laws just to get Mexicans to pick their frackin fruit or for the conservative to have cheap labor force to exploit and liberals to assuage their white guilt.

Secondly, Mexico is not a poor country, The worthless US media never publishes this fact.

Here are the facts:

Mexico has a 1.3 trillion dollar economy, which makes it the 13th largest economy in the world, and richer than Canada.

Mexico has a 4% unemployment rate

Mexico has one of the fastest growing economies in the world.

Mexico is the largest advocate of free trade agreements on the planet. It has signed free trade agreements with dozens of other countries around the world, but you only hear the liberal morons screaming about how Nafta has destroyed the Mexican economy,

The fact is that in 1994 just before Nafta was signed, the US had a $1 billion trade surplus with Mexico. In 2007, the US a $75 billion trade deficit with Mexico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 04/20/2008

It's hard to believe that Mexico's unemployment rate is only 4%. Then why are thousands and thousands and thousands of them illegally coming to work in our country?

Perhaps Mexico's 1.3 million economy is partly derived from the millions/billions of U.S. dollars sent back to Mexico by these illegal workers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:08 PM on 04/20/2008

Just gotta love the type of posts that huffpo allows to stand compared to those they remove. You have types like kellygrrrrl and LITU advocating the systematic killing of conservatives and that's no problem. Any posts attempting a reasonable discussion, albeit with a different opinion, are removed.

A little pre-emption towards the parrots; I said nothing of censorship, huffpo has every right to do whatever they want on their website. I have every right to observe and form my opinion.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:22 PM on 04/20/2008

"Systematic Killing?" You seem to have taken my comments to a whole new level, a liberal act if I may say so. I do not advocate killing ANYONE, having served during TET on the "Z" and understanding what it actually means to kill someone.

I advocate spending our research dollars on discovering and eradicating the gene that makes one become an anti-humanity, pro-commerce-at-all-cost homo/xenophobe. That would be the conservative gene.

And mine would constitute a different opinion from yours; precisely what you"re whining about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:32 PM on 04/20/2008

"Systematic killing??" You seem to have taken my comments to a whole new level. I do not advocate killing ANYONE, having served during TET and understanding what it actually means to KILL someone.

I advocate spending our research dollars on discovering and eradicating the gene that makes one become an anti-humanity, pro-commerce-at-all-cost homo/xenophobe; that would be the conservative gene.

And that would constitute a different opinion from yours; precisely what you're whining about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:47 PM on 04/20/2008

Posting all respectful opinions are in Huffpo's self interest. Week-end Mods seem to take liberties as of late.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 04/20/2008

Since, I haven't been here all that long, I will take that into consideration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:28 PM on 04/20/2008

Ditto on the sentiment. You just got really lucky it made it long enough to see daylight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:25 PM on 04/20/2008

I wonder how many of these people including politicians who do not want a fence live in a gated community?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:19 PM on 04/20/2008

Mexicans paid $2.58B in bribes in '07, poll says
By Mark Stevenson
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 04.17.2008
advertisementMEXICO CITY " Mexicans spent a whopping $2.58 billion in bribes in 2007, about 42 percent more than they doled out just two years ago, according to a poll released Wednesday.
The survey, conducted by the non-profit group Transparency Mexico, showed that 197 million bribes were paid nationwide in 2007 " compared with 115 million in 2005.
That's almost two for every living Mexican, given the country's population of about 105 million. Bribes ate up about 8 percent of family incomes in 2007, the study said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:15 PM on 04/20/2008

The fact that a fence is now needed is a glaring example of the failure of this Government. As the Mexican Government encourages it's poorest citizens to leave their birthplace and the U.S. Government reamins complicit, the citizens of each country suffer needlessly. You can't ask a dog to stay in his yard and expect him to stay. You can ask a person to stay on his own property. It's only when they defy your wishes AND break the law do you construct a fence.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:04 PM on 04/20/2008

The Berlin Wall was designed to keep people in and it worked. Not the same.

The fence in San Diego worked. That is why the illegals moved east to Arizona where they cross through the Sonoran Desert and die horrible deaths.

Because there are powerful interests on both sides of the border who benefit from it being unsecured and open, there will always be people who will make it over any fence.
But the fact reamains, they work. Read about the fence in San Diego. It worked.

So, examine who you are in bed with: the left-wing progessives into sanctuary and water stations, corporate agriculture who are into low wages and union busting, and, the elephant in the room that is so rarely brought up in these discussions of illegals, the drug cartels, the guys with all the money and lots of guns who have turned the border into a free-fire zone.

Not to mention the Mexican government who wants to ship the poor to America so they can send money back to Mexico.


Keeping the border open allows illegals to remain marginal citizens.
If you care about them, if you care about America, seal the border.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:03 PM on 04/20/2008


Nobody has mentioned as well that our neighbor to the south suffers from corruption, poor education, bad infrastructure, malnourishment, illiteracy, and lack of opportunities. The last election they had was stolen. Mexico could be a place so nice that we would want to jump the border. What they need is pressure and help from us to clean up their act. They have some of the highest number of billionaires in the world. We need to make them take care of their own people and pressure them to not have children that they can't take care of. If Mexicans felt they had direction and possibilities in their country, they would not be coming across the border.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 04/20/2008

"Nobody has mentioned as well that our neighbor to the south suffers from corruption, poor education, bad infrastructure, malnourishment, illiteracy, and lack of opportunities."

Funny or not so funny but that is what people in Canada are now saying about their Neighbor to the south.

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 PM on 04/20/2008

Once again, you cannot put the onus on us to fix their problem. Personally, and this may sound cold-hearted, but I don.t care how a Mexican "feels" about their future. You hear it all the time on Huffpo; If so and so gets elected the Country's going to be a mess and I'm leaving. Well,I say fix your Country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:16 PM on 04/20/2008

The posts I saw at the Washington post on this article are frankly very disturbing. A type of animal has just as much right to existence that we do. I cannot believe the small mindedness of the people who say they don't care that their children may never get a chance to see plants or animals that were made by the maker. An animal or plant's disappearance usually leads to the disappearance of other plants or animals. Billions of years of existence and, then, because of us nothing. Disgusting. Has nobody looked at other ways of keeping illegals out? There is a device recently invented already being used on luxury ships to prevent pirates from boarding. It is non-fatal and effective. It uses calibrated sound over long distances to cause people not to feel well and you can't even hear it. These things could be put along the border to prevent human migration while leaving the animals alone. It might even be cheaper.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:29 AM on 04/20/2008

Drive through Washington State, east of the Cascades. The entire eastern portion of the state is a huge patchwork of orchards, vineyards, and farms. It's so immense, it's mind-boggling. The scope of farming is beyond visual imagination.

We either allow all migrant workers some measure of seasonal legality, or we allow our economy to collapse. Without the farm worker population (that means both legal and illegal), Washington State would decline into just another N. Dakota.

And don't tell me that Americans can take up the slack. That's BS (got to avoid those moderators). It that were the case, we wouldn't be having this dialogue. If the illegal migrant population wasn't finding adequate work in our fields, they wouldn't be risking the punishment. Lots of personal testimony to that effect.

The notion that we can continue to reduce that population, IMHO, is self-defeating, and in a few years the results will become apparent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/20/2008

There are 10 Guest worker programs Over 1.5 million in a legal farm labor program whcih is expanded to meet the number of applications.


If there are illegals picking crops its because some one did not apply for legal migrate workers so they would not have to pay a fair wage and P/R taxes. And so you would pay their healthcare and for their kids schooling!

Now what about the illegala laying bricks, tile and doing carpentry work... ??? Are those jobs Americans dont want? Note the rates of pay for those jobs is half what is was in the 1980s (and in real constant dollars mucsh less)!!!!


Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:57 PM on 04/20/2008

I respect your comments. But here's a reality check - the number of of workers needed to harvest our crops is in the millions, not 1.5+. Your insinuation that Americans should be given priority in construction-type jobs is valid but underlines the contention that at $12+/hr for farm labor, there is no reason why Americans should not be doing that kind of work, too. But we're not doing that are we? We scoff at ignominious farm work because for some reason, we're above that sort of thing.

We are now a service-based economy, whether we like it or not, and that's not about to change anytime soon. The wage base that gave rise to our middle class is eroded beyond compare - globalization has seen to that.

I am an advocate for seasonal legalization of migrant workers, not illegal immigration.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:26 PM on 04/20/2008

I strongly question that Illegal farm labor is payed $12 per hours. The average wage in the U.S. is only around $14 per hour.; Such a 12 /per hour rate may include the wondeful housing and food they are furnished... LOL...

Actually Immigrants in total are only 40% of the farm Labor force. So yes some U.S. citizens do that work. And if some one is paying a real $12 wage, then their are many Americans who would do that. Do you really think they are getting twice the min wage?

Our Golf Course ground workers who are hispanic, legal and citzens make only $10 per hour. There work and farm labor is about the same.


Secondly the number in that program as stated is based on number of employers/farmers requesting legal migratory workers. Thats all thats being requested.,.. because they have to be paid a fair wage and P/R taxes! If more workers are needed , the number allowed goes up

Stop the illegal flow and then those employers will have to use the Legal Migratory worker programs in place and that number based on need is increased. Last year it was not completely filled..

Regards

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:37 PM on 04/20/2008

I haven't seen any conservatives advocate the reduction of legal immigration, in fact they advocate just the opposite. It's illegal, as in uncontrolled unaccountable and against the law, that they want to reduce.
But liberals consistently miss that glaring fact.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 04/20/2008

Precisely. It's not the sytem, it's the ABUSE of the system. We farm less acreage and import more food than 20 years ago, and all of a sudden there's no one to pick the crops.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:23 PM on 04/20/2008

Read paragraph two of my post.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:11 PM on 04/20/2008

Exactly. And with legal immigration, we can use our borders to better our standing in the world. We can hold off the antagonism of Russia by allowing more Russian immigrants, for example.

For all we know, there is an immigrant that could cure cancer if only given the opportunity to do the research in one of our fine universities. But instead, we accept uneducated lawbreakers, most of whom are unwilling to learn the language.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:57 AM on 04/20/2008

"...we can use our borders to better our standing in the world. We can hold off the antagonism of Russia by allowing more Russian immigrants, for example.""

Sterling logic if ever these was any. Opening our borders to more Afghanistani immigrants would make the Taliban our friends?

You amaze me.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 AM on 04/21/2008

Drive through Washington State, east of the Cascades. The entire eastern portion of the state is a huge patchwork of orchards, vineyards, and farms. It's so immense, it's mind-boggling. The scope of farming is beyond visual imagination.

We either allow all migrant workers some measure of seasonal legality, or we allow our economy to collapse. Without the farm worker population (that means both legal and illegal), Washington State would decline into just another N. Dakota.

And don't tell me that Americans can take up the slack. That's bullshit! It that were the case, we wouldn't be having this dialogue. If the illegal migrant population wasn't finding adequate work in our fields, they wouldn't be risking the punishment. Lots of personal testimony to that effect.

The notion that we can continue to reduce that population, IMHO, is self-defeating, and in a few years the results will become apparent.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 04/20/2008

It's obvious the border fence will not stop all illegal immigration but it will slow this flood to a trickle. I've heard all of the stories about how if we build a 12 foot fence the illegals will bring a 13 foot ladder.
Let them. If they want to drag a ladder through the desert then so be it. I'd like to see them get a truck full of illegals over the wall with that 13 foot ladder.
Build the fence. Enforce our border security and tell a Minuteman, "Thank You."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:03 AM on 04/20/2008

"RamonBackwards said: Give me a break. Building my home disrupted some species too. I'm very, very ok with that."

Of course you're okay with that. It's all about you isn't it?

I, on the other hand, built my (invasive) home in such a way to limit its impact on the other inhabitants of the area. The minor fence around my small garden plot doesn't adversely impact the deer, who seem to have no problem going around it. In some ways, I did them a favor. They seem to love roses.

That's not quite the same as building a friggin' fence that restricts ALL movement. Your self-serving comment only lends credence to the notion that you and your ilk need to be removed from the gene pool.

Frankly, after the asteroid evens things out, it's the human species that will be on the Endangered Species List, and I'M VERY, VERY OK WITH THAT!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 AM on 04/20/2008

" you and your ilk need to be removed from the gene pool."

That's a good little liberal. Love the deer, kill the conservatives or anyone else that won't fall in line.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:32 AM on 04/20/2008

You finally got something right, you driveling snot.

I'll take deer, bear, rabbits, et al any day over the Destructionists who make up the bulk of the conservative gene pool. You fools won't be happy until the skin of the earth resembles the Martian landscape, devoid of all life except our own. To that end, I'd rather be an Environmentalist than a Destructionist.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:03 PM on 04/20/2008

Difinition of environmental/leftist whackjob just above ^

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 AM on 04/20/2008

Definition of idiot who voted for Bush above.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:25 AM on 04/20/2008

Thank you, postedby, you've made my point, perfectly, and that would be conservative/avaricious whackjobs such as you need to be deleted from the human genome.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:22 AM on 04/20/2008

This wall can be compared to the Berlin Wall. It's the same stupidity organized by similar minded fascists and needs to be stopped. The fact is that the wall is useless! It will not stop people from coming to the U.S. from Mexico.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:36 AM on 04/20/2008

The Berlin wall was extremely effective but the main point is they can't be compared, they're complete opposites.
Fool.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 AM on 04/20/2008

How is that?

One kept people in while the other would keep people out?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:50 AM on 04/21/2008

Actually you make the point ... The Berlin wall Did function as it was meant to... Wonder what your legal status is ?