Straight up, Hillary Clinton won tonight, and don't let the expectations-talk fool you.
As I explain over at Robert Emmet, the talking heads are taking the wrong approach to viewing Mrs. Clinton's Pennsylvania win: The only way she gets the nomination is by way of a historic Obama collapse. So as a practical matter her strategy is to hang around to see if it happens (while trying to abet it, of course).
So in that regard, a win's a win's a win. She lives to wait another day (or two weeks, as the case may be).
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to the Pennsylvania Primary
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To make this contest fair, Hillary's name should be taken of the ballot in the next few primaries, just like in Michigan, then she can count her Michigan 'votes' in her tally.
why should her name be taken off she did not have anything to do with obama takeing his name off mich he did that him self and he should suffer for it not her his on fault
Shouldn't those of us who actually want a Democrat in the White House applaud Senator Clinton for this strategy? It gives us the possibility of choosing another if Senator Obama's campaign collapses. What if Senator Obama had wrapped in up, and Senator Clinton already had gotten out of the race, and then he collapsed? All those crazy things that could happen between now and July/August. Maybe its good to have a back up. Actually this goes both ways. Maybe we should keep our options open and hope that every damaging thing about either candidate comes out before the convention and not afterwards.
Please don't say Hillary and win in the same sentence its too scary! She has been paid well by lobbyists and with so much return baggage to add to her already overloaded list of favors to return we need to move on to the next president Obama. Hillarys comments have hurt Democrats they are now perceived as changing the rules to fit the situation. Bitter? we yes we are, Lobbyist money was given to Hillary wasn't it? What reverend did Hillary and Bill use to reconcile their differences? Why is she still trying to get McCain elected?
We need to get over this distraction and get Obama on the way to the nomination, Hillarys win in Pennsylvania just proves she is unelectable and when she runs under the independent banner trying again to be the poor woman that everybody picks on. It will cost her more than the election, it will cost her any possible future in politics ads a senator she is powerless to do any thing because we all know she has taken lobbyist money to further her own goals and when she comes up for election in november of 09 we will send her packing to Pennsylvania where she can be with some one who gives a shit because she has shown us in upstate her true colors. no wonder Bill went elsewhere
No, it was stolen just like New Hampshire.
Hillary & Bill are in the same camp as the Bush famoly; they only masquerade as Democrats.
AND OBAMA IS SHOWING HIS TRUE COLOURS the more he's expected to say MORE than "Yes we Can!"
Barack Obama does not appeal to the BASE of the Democratic Party because he is an elitist! AND HERE MORE PROOF! Barack Obama is FUNDAMENTALLY INSECURE and he made another huge mistake last night when he SPOKE candidly to someone he knew in the audience!
"I admire him because I've always known this guy was going to get somewhere because he MARRIED UP just like I MARRIED UP!"
This is a strunning statement considering he knows he is having trouble with the base! And among others, I wonder what the poor, disenfranchised, struggling single and oppressed minority mothers thought about that comment?! Among many other but minority women and mothers who don't have and have NEVER had the privilege, the time or the education to do more than struggle daily for SURVIVAL in this country. Does that mean these women are "less than" his wife or the rest of the country? This is psychologically disturbing and MUCH like we have in the WHITE HOUSE right NOW - making decisions that reflect his ignorance, his disdain and his arrogence as it relates to not only the people of this country but the third world countries!
Oh, good god. "Marrying up" doesn't mean his wife is better than other women (although, honestly, what would you think about a guy who said that there are a lot of better women he could have married, but he married his wife anyway?). "Marrying up" means that you believe your partner is better than you - his thinks his wife is a great catch. Yeah, that's a damning, elitist thing to say. Watch out - next thing you know, he might say she's his better half!
Concluding Post #2
A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:
The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.
In both of Pyrrhus's victories, the Romans lost more men than Pyrrhus did. However, the Romans had a much larger supply of men from which to draw soldiers, so their losses did less damage to their war effort than Pyrrhus's losses did to his.
The report is often quoted as "Another such victory over the Romans and we are undone."
The fact is, that Hillary's base demographic is the same as Bush's - the under-educated, blue-callar, rural, reckneck set. We've already seen what the judgement of these people has done to our countrywith their stellar pick of Bush for President. Let's not make the same mistake twice; if smart, well educated, affluent people are voting for Obama, why not come to grips with the fact that there's a good reason. We want the best possible President with exceptional team building and management skills, someone like Barack Obama who as deftly demonstrated how exceptional his truly are. Hillary's awful campaign, rife with incompetence, nepotism, and her thrid rate organization and management of it, are a clear preview of what she would be like as President. She'd be very much like, like....... oh shit - George Bush!
no you have that wrong it is people like you not us uneducated rednecks thats got us were we are today with no common sence and know it all logic
no you have that wrong it is people like you not us uneducated rednecks thats got us were we are today with no common sence and know it all logic
I voted for Gore, then Bush. A lot of people I know did the same thing.
I only have a BS in math and physics which makes me under-educated. One of my sisters has a master's degree in Literature. She writes and is published world wide. She is also udner-educated. so are many other people I know who support Bush, who haved college degrees.
Many of these people are authors and Journalists and "activists".
What we are really undereducated in is how to swoon for a political candidate who hob-nobs with the elite like Bill Ayers, Rezko and Rev. Wright. I know -- we are so stupid that we fall for distractions and stay away from the salient points of "Yes We can", "Hope" and :"Change we can believe in".
What we really need to believe in is that the best thing that can happen is for us to declare that we lost in Iraq, leave and let the Jiahdists slaughter a million people, just like we did in Viet Nam. Nothing will imporve life in America like a good defeat by a few thousand rag-tag Jihadists.
You want my vote? How about saying how you cna defeat al Qaeda, not how you can surrender to them.
Bring back Truman so I can be a Democrat again.
Is "hob-nob" really the word you want?
cont from above:
All these so called liberals patting themselves on the back for voting for Black Obama, while at the same time expressing such hatred against Hillary, are sexist in their hatred, and don't deserve to pat themselves on the back at all. Hillary is nice, and will help this country more than Obama has the capability to.
If Obama gets elected, and history repeats itself; all these Blacks will be coming out and demonstrating.
Mark Twian said, "Because their features and the color of their skin is different from ours, we fail to notice that their hearts are a far sight better than our own." Its so true---I love Black people---and I want to help them---and do help them--and always treat them with dignity and respect--but the lower class Blacks are going to be like what the camera caught after the OJ verdict was read.
Meanwhile we've got serious issues on the economy and war going on---and this extra distraction won't help matters any.
What history is going to be repeated upon Barack Obama's election? You got that kind of love we can do without. Seriously. Save it for baby seals or something like that. You are not about people at all.
I am sure you don't know it but your racism and white privileged perspective are more than peeking through. We don't need you to win
I don't understand all this Hillary hatred.
And to all the naive Obama supporters out there--there's this story: When many of us Chicago north side liberals voted in our first Black Mayor--Harold Washington, droves of Blacks came up from the south side bringing their -playing at full volume- boomboxes, and started hanging out in the lovely Rush Street area where there are many bars, restuarants, and charming and upscale shops. The Blacks took over and assumed the position of 'Wez conquered ya'll'. They snubbed us, tried to scare us, never reached out a hand to us in friendship----they laughed in our faces. Then Rush Street died because they were there. It took years to rebuild after Harold died. It was just like Bill Cosby has been telling them---they have to change. cont. below"
Did neone mentioned "Pyrrhic victory" PIR-ikpayerik, noun:
A victory achieved at great or excessive cost; a ruinous victory. MSM gains, Hi_liary & co., big losers... moolah wise... Democratic Party hurt by self goal [It may be termed a big failure on DNC leadership, namely Howard Dean]
Eventually She would try to bargain for a second position and fail in that too... she may even loose her NY seat in the upper house of the USA of loot and plunder... lol... and bankrupt, broke... she may end up in the lunatic asylum... as far as I think... :)... I pity those who are betting on a loosing hand... they ain't a fool.
She won. She won big. My crushed hopes and deep disappointment as a Democrat are proof.
70% of Americans think Obama has dealt successfully with the Rev. Wright controversy. They don't care about that "issue." But not Hillary Clinton. Or maybe she doesn't care either. But she cares about winning so she acts like she cares about this, as well as shooting guns for sport-- they do that Indiana too, right?
Her supporters care about winning. Whatever it takes. The Clinton Doctrine laid out in the ABC "debate" was neo-neocon. We need *more* reasons for preemptive war. If Iran threatens Greenland-- it's on.
I liked Hillary Clinton. The old Hillary Clinton. That one in 2007 who was professional, competent, calm and collected. I scared the bejesus out of two white blue collar workers on campus here when I talked about a "President Hillary Clinton." Now those two guys think Obama is a Muslim (seriously, they do, and no evidence to the contrary will sway them) and Hillary Clinton wants their votes.
One candidate isn't acting like a Democrat anymore and half the party doesn't care. Now *that's* scary.
I feel your sadness. Hillary won BIG! The Clintons gave RACISM IN AMERICA a huge boost with their gutter politics. They poured gasoline on bitter old embers the blew enough hot air on it to create a riot level fire. Old gun totin' Hillary says "don't just cling on to your religion, Plant a cross in your unwanted neighbors lawn and light a nice welcoming fire. I am your hometown girl Pennsylvania!"
The question is whether the old guard Clinton can beat the new guard Obama. The critical question will be answered by the superdelegates who wil decide the nominee. Go with the ability to win the "winning" states or go with the popular vote of the new guard who will not be able to bring in the middle, maybe. Big questions.
And then she loses NC so badly that her delegate gains in PA are negated, just as the Texas Caucus and MS primary nullified her March 4th wins. She will barely win or barely lose Indiana, so the delegate count there will not help her. She will lose Oregon, North Dakota, and Montana, so she will need absurd numbers in West Virginia, Kentucky and Puerto Rico. Most likely, she will end up 150-160 delegates behind.
That means she needs +161 among Supers to win. There are only 300 left. That means she will need 230 or more to win the nomination. That is nearly 80%, or a 4-1 ratio. Given that Obama is +76 in Supers over the past 2 months, and has promised more (like Oklahoma's Governor today), it is highly unlikely that she can hold him below another 100 Superdelegates. In fact, Reid, Dean and Pelosi are waiting until June 3rd to push DNC and Congressional Supers into his camp, making her Super scenario look like a pipe dream.
Obama has a better chance of winning Texas in November than Clinton has of winning the nomination at this point. PA was a win for her, but it was too narrow of a win to make a difference.
Hillary tried to give us Universal Health Care... and failed.
Obama tried stop us from going to war... and failed.
BOTH GOOD PEOPLE -
Gore ran a clean race and won... but not the kind of win that did any of us any good.
And yes Hillary plays the typical politician, no argument there. But after Kerry, Gore, Monica, and two terms of Bush - how could anyone go up against the predictable Rovian tactics without adapting to the enemy???
Big points to Obama for playing a fair game... I just hope he doesn't think for one minute that being a nice guy is enough. Bush of all the people on the Planet still won the conservative vote (twice).
And people wonder why Hillary plays the politician... maybe it's because she's been paying attention.
Hilary has always been a negative polarizing politician. Hillary Clinton's tactics pre-date Karl Rove. I used to like the Clinton's and thought that they were the victims of a vast right wing conspiracy. But the way the Clinton's have conducted Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign has made me take a second look at history. The Clintons harmed the country more than they helped. They lost the Senate and the Congress, gave us Nafta, blaimed the poor for welfare and hurt gays with DODT... The Clintons accomplished little good and introduced a new low in scorched earth politics. FUN and dirty politics are synonymous with the Clintons.
How did Obama fail to stop us from going to war? She was clearly in charge of the Health care debacle. Was Obama in charge of the State Dept in 2002?
People like Clinton, who prop up this ridiculous Bush regime, are responsible for failing to stop the war, not people like Obama who spoke up against it.
Health care debale??? She went up against the most powerful special interest group (Pharmaceuticals & Health care) this country has (second only to maybe the Industrial War Machine) and failed. Her odds off success were 1 in a 1000. It was just as brave a move as Obama's stance on Iraq.
It is all politics all the time with Hillary. I no longer believe that she was ever serious about Universal Healthcare in the 90's. She knew she would fail. But, in failing she could wrap herself in the cloak of noble fighter. What has Hillary ever accomplished?
And all this talk about majority rule... the people want Obama. Well the people (most) backed the war... an illegal and immoral war at that. Obama gets lots of points for his forsight, the bottom line is that his voice didn't amount to a hill of beans.
He did not succeed... PERIOD. Last time I checked the opposite of Success was Failure.
Please list Hillary's legislative accomplishments in the last 7 years as a senator from the most influential state in the USA. What has she done for anyone beside herself. She certainly could have lead a movement to unseat George Bush but alas her husband Bill is busy making huge profits off the Iraq War.
Exactly how was he in a position to do more than he did by speaking out strongly and publicly against the war. She was in charge of the White House plan to develop universal health care, and worked in secrecy a la Bush. Just who had the stronger position from which to work, HRC or BHO?
And so effectively spoke up... how many senators did he convince? You do realize that if he becomes president that he'll need more that 2 or 3 votes in the Senate to pass legistlation!!
That's okay. He won't have battered congress into submission the way the Bush administration did. He'll have an uphill battle plenty of times, but that's the price of playing by the rules. Whoever is president in 2009 should immediately get the Executive Branch back to its appropriate place as one of three branches of government, not as a monarchy.
he was only doing what his constituents at the time wanted, he wasn't trying to make waves. If he was in the senate then he would have reported to Schumer and Clinton and asked "how do I vote?" They would have explained that while none of them want the war they were absolutely powerless to stop it and to vote against it with the ravening mob against them would dock the party's chances in 2008.
His response: Nay, I shall not allow it, I will stand up for what is right! ?????
Nope, but he might have just voted "present."
You might notice he's voted to fund the war and reauthorize the patriot act, where were the speeches then?
I'm so done with this whole process. She won by less then 10 points. Her victory was not a double digit win. She will need a double digit win in EVERY remaining primary until July.
I will wait until after July to see what the count is. I refuse to watch a single MSM show until then. I'm officially boycotting that mis-information.
If Obama is ahead in delegate and popular vote and HRC is nominated, expect physical riots. Not verbal ones either.
It is even worse than you said; she needs far more than a double digit win in each of the remaining primaries -- she needs a 30 point margin in each of the succeeding primaries to get a majority of the elected delegates.
It just ain't gonna happen. The people have voted, and they've chosen Obama.
You know what else isn't going to happen -- the super-delegates aren't going to give the nomination to someone who lost the election. That would be electoral suicide.
Don't forget to count Fl and MI. That puts Hillary ahead in the popular vote.
Posted April 22, 2008 | 10:49 PM (EST)