Justice Dept Says US Spies Can Use Interrogation Methods That Would Be Prohibited By International Law

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New York Times   |  Mark Mazzetti   |   April 26, 2008 08:14 PM


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The Justice Department has told Congress that American intelligence operatives attempting to thwart terrorist attacks can legally use interrogation methods that might otherwise be prohibited under international law.

The legal interpretation, outlined in recent letters, sheds new light on the still-secret rules for interrogations by the Central Intelligence Agency. It shows that the administration is arguing that the boundaries for interrogations should be subject to some latitude, even under an executive order issued last summer that President Bush said meant that the C.I.A. would comply with international strictures against harsh treatment of detainees.

While the Geneva Conventions prohibit "outrages upon personal dignity," a letter sent by the Justice Department to Congress on March 5 makes clear that the administration has not drawn a precise line in deciding which interrogation methods would violate that standard, and is reserving the right to make case-by-case judgments.

"The fact that an act is undertaken to prevent a threatened terrorist attack, rather than for the purpose of humiliation or abuse, would be relevant to a reasonable observer in measuring the outrageousness of the act," said Brian A. Benczkowski, a deputy assistant attorney general, in the letter, which had not previously been made public.

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Why is anyone surprised, the good ship Bush allows abuse of prisoners that goes beyond the realms of interrogation. Sader still, it has spread to how police interrogate prisoners. Folks, you voted in a dumb, power mad idiot. The guy is not fit for office, not fit to run a country, a war or anything other than maybe a window at Mc donalds. At some point you have to take the blinders off and realize McCain will do the same, Hillary would do so, but not without just cause and support to back up the findings. Obamma is a wild card. The american people are at the mercy of mad men and women. This is no longer a country of the people or by the people. Its a rogue nation. Unless we the people take it to the streets like they do in other countries, nothing will change. Nada. TIME TO HIT THE STREETS AND LET OUR VOICES BE HEARD.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:28 PM on 04/27/2008

This has been going on for years and continues to. But the act of torture has migrated down to us. Is it not a form a torture when an HMO refuses an urgent treatment? And you are taken out of the focus of your health to convince the HMO why you paid them to cover this treatment.

This country has changed the writing of the constitution and crossed out the "Pursuit" and the "Well Being" to a different and strange meaning.

If you want to go see some torture just go down to the local sheriffs jail and bear witness.

Some of us were taught that we under any circumstance accept the art of torture and some of us are born torturers. However if torture is some sort of right, I do not want this right. And I certainly do not want this government to have this right under any circumstance.

Isn"t it time to start talking about taking apart this military establishment, including the CiA and to start getting back to the written words of this Constitution.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:21 PM on 04/27/2008

If we got back to the Constitution you liberals would be incredibly sorry. Absolutely nowhere does it state the right to privacy (no more abortion, yayyyyyyyyy!) and I doubt the CIA is mentioned in a document written in 1787.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 04/27/2008

The Bill of Rights protects the freedoms of speech, press, and religion; the right to keep and bear arms; the freedom of assembly; the freedom to petition; and prohibits unreasonable search and seizure; cruel and unusual punishment; and compelled self-incrimination. The Bill of Rights also prohibits Congress from making any law respecting establishment of religion and prohibits the Federal Government from depriving any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:49 PM on 04/27/2008

No couldn't be more wrong. Are you even an American? The Bill of Right CLEARLY states that "the enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 PM on 04/27/2008

I'm sorry, that doesn't effing say "right to privacy", unless you are going to start making crap up, then fine. Start your own country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 04/27/2008

So what the Viets did to John Mc Cain is OK?

Works for me!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:15 PM on 04/27/2008

We're not even close.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:32 PM on 04/27/2008

Classified classified classified. Of most cases people will never hear about it all...maybe decades from no on...

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:48 PM on 04/27/2008

Sen. Obama, as president, will ban these techniques.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:17 PM on 04/27/2008

A memo from the DOJ, eh?

Let's ask ourselves how valid an opinion out of the current DOJ is, shall We?

1) Stacked with Regent's lot of semi-literate hyper-partisan trolls
2) who have no problem apparently with violating the Constitution
3) just like the guy who was running the joint when they got there, the other criminal, Alberto "The Unemployable" Gonzales. A man who does not even understand the meaning of the word "constitutionality". When he became too much of an embarrassment for his lack of competence, they replaced him with
4) the Bush Co. finger puppet Mukasey who would not challenge the illegalities leading up to his appointment instead opting for more
5) carrying water for the fascists who have usurped Our government and
6) allowing further denigration of the Constitution
7) based on pure greed and
8) fundamentalist Zionist Neocon zealotry.

Yeah - I can only reach one decision given scenario.

This "opinion" isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

The freedom from "cruel and unusual punishments" found in the Constitution is absolute. There is no wiggle room, fascist enablers.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 04/27/2008

The Constitution applies to US citizens and does not cover foreign enemies of our nation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 AM on 04/27/2008

Well, if the Constitutional strictures against cruel and unusual punishment don't apply to non-citizens than it would be ok to torture, say, illegal aliens or anyone in the US who isn't a citizen, such as tourists? I doubt that would hold up in court -- you think it would? Since you say it only applies to US citizens, what does being a foreign enemy have to do with it? It would be ok to torture foreigners for jaywalking or just for fun!

Traditionally, it is not ok to torture prisoners until a court has found them guilty, yet there have been many instances of prisoners held by the US being tortured and later freed because they were not seen as threats. So, we are talking about torturing INNOCENT people who happen to have been on the wrong battlefield in Afghanistan, for example. I don't know if you've read The Gulag Archipelago but it would be interesting to see the Bush administration go thru the book and point out the behavior of the Soviet goverment that was reviled and say "but that was actually ok!!"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:48 PM on 04/27/2008

The Constitution applies to all people, we the people; citizens and humanity - good or bad.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:42 PM on 04/27/2008

Can foreigners vote?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:25 PM on 04/27/2008

It is finnished.
People in the US no longer believe in the basic right of human dignity or Habeaus corpus, except for a select few.
US citizens now condone every evil they accused our cold war enemies of.
The major difference is that, "Greed is good", obscene wealth, and the abuse of power admired.
There is none of the Marxist, "To each according to their needs" rhetoric to hinder our ruling classes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 PM on 04/27/2008

WTF!!!!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 04/27/2008

Yea, I totally agree with the Pentagon. I just hope they don't bellyache too much when another country does it to our soldiers. I mean, they wouldn't be doing it to protect THEIR country, now would day? And, I just love that old argument asking what you would do if their was a great terror event about to happen and the only way to get info was to torture..er..I mean use "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques". And I use the example all the torture neo-cons use...what if there was a Nuclear device in a city and it was set to go off in a couple of days?
Now, who out there believes that these terrorist would spill the actual info? These people are willing to blow themselves up and die for the cause, but they're gonna give up their plans all because of a little torture? C'mon, this isn't Hollywood. Morelikely, they'd day it's in Chicago, when it's really in Miami. And our Govt is busy trying to clear out the Windy City....BOOM!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:56 AM on 04/27/2008

Who believes they could torture reliable info. from people willing to die?
The very cowards who present you with the argument !
They would sacrifice their own mother or offer their infant child up to save their own ass.
We are not talking about the Land of the Brave anymore.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:21 PM on 04/27/2008

"Interrogation techniques?" Call it what it is -- torture. That is something America never did before Bush, which is one reason why the global respect and support for this country has eroded so badly. Seems the only ones who will have anything to do with us is China which, as we know, is not a democracy. The America which Bush created is not the America I grew up in; I want America back.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:27 AM on 04/27/2008

"That is something America never did before '

hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahaha
yeah right

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:49 PM on 04/27/2008

Unfortunaly that is the harsh truth. If anyone believes this all really is news then they are uninformed and naive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:52 PM on 04/27/2008

I would have thought that a nation that finds that it's legal to do things that are seen as illegal by the rest of the world fits the textbook definition of a rogue state. I don't think that's news. This kind of thing has been going on with a wink and a nod for years. Once you tie what you're doing to fighting terrorism, whether or not it's true, most anything it seems, is acceptable. As long as it's not too brazenly done and there's some kind of deniability however flimsy, enough people can be persuaded that it's no big deal to keep them from causing any trouble.

What I do think is news, even in this Administration, is that the Justice Department openly accepts that this is happening and that even then, there is no wide-spread outrage. Has this then become acceptable to mainstream America? It appears so.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:43 AM on 04/27/2008

Reasons why our country is being sodomized upp the waazzzoo..

The Pentagon Strangles Our Economy.. Why the U.S. Has Gone Broke

Historical fact: Prior to the rise of the radical right some 30 years ago, America was the most innovative, most prosperous, most vital nation on the face of the Earth. And it wasn't just an obscenely rich fraction of one percent skewing the numbers, either...like it is today
The military adventurers in the Bush administration have much in common with the corporate leaders of the defunct energy company Enron. Both groups thought that they were the "smartest guys in the room" -- the title of Alex Gibney's prize-winning film on what went wrong at Enron. The neoconservatives in the White House and the Pentagon outsmarted themselves. They failed even to address the problem of how to finance their schemes of imperialist wars and global domination.

As a result, going into 2008, the United States finds itself in the anomalous position of being unable to pay for its own elevated living standards or its wasteful, overly large military establishment. Its government no longer even attempts to reduce the ruinous expenses of maintaining huge standing armies, replacing the equipment that seven years of wars have destroyed or worn out, or preparing for a war in outer space against unknown adversaries. Instead, the Bush administration puts off these costs for future generations to pay or repudiate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:59 AM on 04/27/2008

Republicans = Military Failure

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:48 AM on 04/27/2008

One thing that people need to understand, is that torture is NOT about gathering information. Torture is about radicalizing the enemy.

How can you have perpetual wars, and justify them, unless you create the enemy that you need, in the regions and countries that you need them to be in?

People really need to wake up.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:51 AM on 04/27/2008

the 24 analogy is facile.america tortures for the same reason stalin did;to get confessions.the gestapo used the same justification for torture,as america, and had a similar legal framework for it.i hope the bush administation will get prosecuted for this.and the word is "torture" not "harsh interrogation technique".will bush grant posthumous pardons to the ww2 war criminals ? he seems to think they are a much maligned bunch.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:41 AM on 04/27/2008

Yeah. This won't have any repercussions on our men and women serving in the armed forces, or otherwise. I mean, it's not like allowing our own interrogators to use techniques forbidden by international law will cause any backlash, right?

It's not like this is a tacit approval of those techniques by our government, right?

It's not like our enemies will see this as a precedent to cite when torturing OUR men and women, right?!?

We can do it to OUR enemies without prosecution, and still have our enemies PUNISHED by the international community when they do it to us, right? Right?!?

.

>_<

Friggin' idiots. Blasted morons occupying the White House. Don't they know that all of us, all Americans, will pay for THEIR ARROGANCE?!?

My only hope is that these criminals, these blatant, nasty, vicious, pathetic war criminals are dragged before the international community, and condemned, then sentenced by the entire world to, at a bare minimum, life in prison without parole, the moment that they leave office.

It is my deepest hope that, as the historic moment occurs that the current administration formally leaves, and as Bush is walking to his helicopter/limo/whatever, that he is placed in handcuffs on international television, and taken to the Hague for crimes against humanity. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, the whole friggin' lot of 'em, publicly forced to face justice before an international tribunal, now that would be quite a sight to see, indeed.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:53 AM on 04/27/2008

You really think that they care one bit about us?

All they care about is Israel and the money that Israel has bribed them with.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:48 AM on 04/27/2008

Of course they don't care about us. They obviously don't even care about THEMSELVES. They are totally sociopathic, and without remorse about such. You are right, they care more about $$$ than they do about people. Some of them care about Israel, their military-industrial complex buddies, and the occasional other ally (such as Bush's Saudi close, personal friends). Their personal avarice and selfishness is more important than anything else. They are so selfish, they don't even give a crap about what happens to their spouses and CHILDREN due to their actions. THEIR children will suffer as the world suffers, whether they think so, or no.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:26 AM on 04/27/2008

It is a sad day for our nation when we have to rely on the international community to do what our elected congress is elected to do. If congress is not going to do its duty, what is the purpose of even having them? Should they be paid? Does an employer pay an employee that does not do the job?

I'm past ready for some "SPECIAL ELECTIONS" (if even possible) to clean "House" and Senate. We have only a handful of representatives who are willing to do what we elected them to do -- the rest should all be gone. If they won't impeach the criminals, then we should impeach our representatives.

There was a time when I could not even imagine being this disgusted with my own nation.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:06 AM on 04/27/2008

I wonder how the Justice Department missed the military studies revealing that torture results in lies and misinformation that wastes our resources and gets troops killed....

Oh, wait, nobody's lives are on the line, so it's okay to inflict suffering on another human being even though we know that torture doesn't provide real answers that would let us prevent attacks or protect the lives and liberties of those for whose sake the human rights violations and unneccessary cruelty are ostensibly being committed. So we'll just breach more rights and torment more people even though more conscionable methods provide better information and in a more timely manner.

Did they forget to read up on the topic, again, or is reality just a little too far away to bother with?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:01 AM on 04/27/2008

You have to understand, the neocons believe in creating their own reality. They way they see it, we're the only superpower in the world, so to their way of thinking, that means they can do anything they want, to whomever they want, whenver they want.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:03 AM on 04/27/2008

That is the truth, there is no country on this earth to stop us, and when you have this Administration (if that's what you want to call it these days) who care nothing about anyone except their loyal group you have nothing worth fighting for. Home of the brave, Land of the free is gone.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:02 AM on 04/27/2008

You can take the word JUSTICE out of the Justice Department as a result of this very bad and internationally illegal ploy to give the go ahead to torture people! This is not what the U.S. is about and the sooner the administration changes, the Justice Department should be purged of these fascists moving the country toward establishing a Banana Republic like the right-wing fascist governments in Central and South America.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:45 AM on 04/27/2008

As our government loses whatever little moral authority it ever had, it is forced to rule by pure power. This spells the end of democracy, of the republic, and a future as a police state. This state of affairs has been caused by the neocons and their fools, the religious right. Decked out in their flag lapel pins, wrapped in their flags, they have destroyed this countries.
Ironic, isn't it, that we should be destroyed by those claiming to be superpatriots?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 AM on 04/27/2008

Nothing "ironic" at all. That's exactly how it happened in Germany. Americans are just plain ignorant about history.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:46 AM on 04/27/2008

Not only do American intelligence operatives have a special letter that allows them to conduct immoral behavior they have super powers that allow them to leap over tall buildings in a single bound. Yes that's right the Bush administration does not live in the real world they live in the cartoon world.

Idiots, let's hope that none of our enemies have the same letter.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:31 AM on 04/27/2008

I remember the howls of outrage and moral indignation when Brother Bubba tried to escape Monicagate through the careful definition of words.

The very thought that "this man" would sttack our Christian morality and high values with so low a tactic.

Torture on the other hand is situational.

If the Japanese water board during World War II, it's a war crime.

When we do it, it's OK.

I'll bet that's 'cause we're doing the Lord's work.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:30 AM on 04/27/2008

Yep, you have to remember that, according to these people, suffering has nothing to do with morality.

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