Cross-posted at OpenLeft.com
I haven't written much about the Rev. Wright thing because so many people have taken this topic on ad infinitum that there hasn't seemed much new to say. But with him doing his media tour thing, I thought I would weigh in on a topic not that much covered in the progressive blogosphere, which is the nature of ministers and their sermons. I only go to church these days when I am back home in Lincoln, but as the grandson and brother of Methodist ministers, and the son of the lay (non-clergy) leader of the Nebraska Methodist Church, this is a topic I know something about - at my family dinner table, if the topic was politics, you could take even odds on whether we were talking regular politics or church politics.
My minister brother and I were taking a few days back about the whole Wright thing, and he commented, "I sure wouldn't want my parishioners to be held responsible for the stuff I've said in my sermons." And that sentiment is true for every good minister I know if. What I was always told growing up was that a minister's job was to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable. Bad preachers speak in mushy truisms watered down to the lowest common denominator. Good ministers stir people up, challenge their congregants' assumptions, make people uncomfortable. They should serve, in the language of the church, a prophetic role that speaks truth to power.
They can get away with that, if they are good at their work, by that comforting the afflicted part of their job: visiting sick and elderly people at the hospital and in their homes, doing the funeral services, counseling those in trouble. When a minister does that sort of thing, they build an unshakable loyalty that allows them to survive, say, giving a sermon in favor of gay rights in North Platte, Nebraska. There were probably five people in my brother's congregation of 300 that agreed with what he said in such a sermon that day, but they didn't fire him or quit the congregation in droves because of it. That congregation knew my brother to be a good and gentle man who had been there for all of them time and time again in the hardest of times, and so they accepted what he said in his sermon without necessarily agreeing with it. I'm guessing that if one of them had run for office in North Platte, and bee confronted with that gay rights sermon by my brother, they would have said about what Barack Obama did of Jeremiah Wright- "Well, I didn't like what he said, but that man performed my marriage and baptized my children and brought me closer to my faith, so I'm not going to walk away form him personally."
Good ministers say dramatic things, stir things up, and push people hard to look at what they believe and how they act. That's their job. To hold their congregants accountable for every word they say in a sermon is absurd, and shows the people who attack them for such that they don't understand religion very well.
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Go back to the drawing board, and now explain away why Barck Obama is dismissing him.
Reverend wright should be ashamed of himself[if hes capable of shame}he has deliberately sabotaged obamas chances of being the first black president.How ironic that a black man will be the downfall of obama.If at this point people are afraid to vote for obama{the much neede independents}
It wont come down to racism of the voter but the racism of Mr.wright{Im sorry if a white person EVER made some of the charecterizations of black people that wright made of white people ther would be an unbelievable outcry agianst it.} Do people think that you can call the U.S. soldiers terrorists and the U.S. govt. created aids and the voters are not supposed to wonder how much of this Obama believes?I believe the Rev. is a typical con artist who has made alot of money being controversial and getting his flock to believe they are victims and to be dependent on him for charity.In that way he is the typical black leader who does little for his people but makes alot of money talking the talk.He is terrified that obama may win then his victimology theology kind of loses its veneer.
Aside from the ridiculous nature of allowing ANY preacher such prominence in our political discourse, if you compare what Wright said with well-known white evangelicals, what they say is far worse.
Basically, it boils down to this: Wright said god damned America for its atrocious policies toward the helpless, the weak, the powerless. Wright said god damns American policies involving Native Americans, Japanese-Americans during WWII, slavery and Jim Crow.
Right wing nutcases like Falwell, Hagee and others say that god damns whole cities (New Orleans) because of a gay pride parade. Or, that he damns a whole country because it includes liberals, the ACLU, feminists and gays (9/11).
Think about it, folks. Wright is far more rational in his condemnations, and actually states fact (except for the AIDS nonsense). Right wing preachers, OTOH, are spouting completely insane nonsense with no connection with fact or reality.
It also tells us a great deal about how they view their god:
Wright sees his god as someone who would be against genocide, slavery and discrimination. Wingnut preachers like Falwell believe their god embraces genocide, slavery, and discrimination.
Wright actually has a much higher opinion of his god's nature than do most well-known right wing preachers. He sees his god as being on a side of the oppressed. They see theirs as being an oppressor.
The difference is striking, as is the silence about that difference.
You are really reaching Mike. From the tone of this post and considering you didn't make much of a point, I think you realize on some level that this is one big rationalization. I wonder how long you would stay seated in a church while the pastor screamed God Damn America.
I know you've got to convince yourself that you made the right decision by turning your back on your friend Hillary, and I'm sure you would like a position in an Obama administration, but this post is garbage.
You are obviously a deep thinker and should be acclaimed for your objectivity.
David Duke has undoubtedly spoken on these very issues, and yet it baffles me that President Bush has not yet come out and condemned him. It is remarkable that in spite of Obama addressing Wright, race, the race, Christianity, Et Al, it still isn't enough. So, let's wait for the condemnation of everything, that anyone, has ever said, that some recognizable person could be held accountable for, because that makes SOOOOooo much sense.
Look, if you don't want to vote for Obama, Don't. Just please stop trying to justify it with BS.
I not only want to vote for Obama I want him to be president! For that to happen people have to trust him.This preacher is too the left of the left and the U.S. has NEVER voted for a candidate with this type of close affiliation.You can bring up Davd Duke and Haggey all you want the BIG difference is the republican candidates didnt sit in their churches for twenty years and didnt concider them family. The fact is that Obama has to overcome white fears and this doesnt help. I think most whites would be willing to give him a chance but not if they suspect he believe H.I.V.was created by The U.S.to kill blacks and that american soldiers are terrorists.Obama needs to repudiate this huckster {I think there all hucksters]and repudiate the whole victimology theology which has kept the black community captive for decades.
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Love the last line. I'm going to start using that when Wright comes up, so far everything else has been pearls before swine.
I have a question:
Has anyone noticed that NO ONE in the MSM actually quotes Rev. Wright's "God Damn America" line on TV? I thought about that this morning. So, if you could, I'd like to hear what my fellow commenters think might be the reason. Then, I will put my take on it.
I think the "System" is trying to shut up the Black voice. I think they would like to stifle the voices that speak out about injustices. In the Black communities, these are the pastors. It's very telling about the way "white" people react when they hear someone like Rev Wright. I think the fear that somehow there will be an uprising from the black neighborhoods, is almost readable in their faces and in their voices. However, this type of preaching has been going on for decades, and I don't see any terrorists coming out of the "hoods". Instead, I see young people who come out inspired to do something with their lives. I believe the media and rivals of Sen Obama are trying to pull out that sort of fear and unfortunately, it seems to be working.
I am sick and tired of the Rev. Wright baloney. There are millions of reality based people like myself who don't believe in ANY cults, whether they are Christian, Muslim, devil or otherwise. I care about the issues, not a bunch of frauds feigning outrage at someone who Obama knows, saying things that they don't like. Ridiculous! What a bunch of robots. Sheesh. I certainly wouldn't have many friends if I discarded them for something they may say that I don't agree with. The allegedly "outraged" phonies aren't going to vote for Obama anyway, so they are using this Wright nonsense to mask their bigotry.
Don't like Obama? Don't vote for him. Vote for McBush and be prepared to send your kids and grandkids off to war.
It seems like this whole thing would go away if a well-known (hopefully respected) evangelical leader came out and said, "actually, Wright is right". Maybe not every word, but in his role as a pastor. The reason this hasn't happened is because the evangelical right would allow Wright to be pilloried if it meant ruining Obama. Just one more reason why I'll never set foot in a church, although I have been listening to Rev. Wright's sermons lately. He's pretty cool.
All this discussion about church is the very reason I don't go to church or beleive in religion. Why would I go to Church on Sunday just to be condemed on Monday because of something my nutty pastor said.
I've never heard of that happening before when someone condemned because of what their pastor said until now! It is being done solely for political reasons
Obama supporters are trying to spin this thing like crazy. But if Obama is the Dem nominee, we will be seeing Wright sound bites over and over, with the end result being increased racial tension in this country. How can Obama project himself as a unifier with Wright's angry--sometimes outrageous--voice constantly ringing in our ears? Furthermore, by saying Obama is just being "a politician", Wright further undermines the rationale for his candidacy. This guy has hurt Obama's campaign more than anything Bill has done re: Hillary.
I couldn't agree more. Over the years I have had several pastors. I have never agreed 100 percent with any of them. But I am wondering now that there may be one more reason why I could never run for public office.
That is what I think is the real danger from this whole Rev. Wriight matter. It is far more significant than just one candidate in one election. If it really becomes accepted that the moral obligation and patriotic duty of any american upon hearing one controvercial statement is to immediately and permanently leave then how empty will our churches become and how muzzled will our pastors become. What will become of a genuine freedom of religion in this country.
Many of the framers of the constitution came here specifically because their pastors could get killed for saying anything unpatriotic about the King of England and they could be ruined for being in the church at the time.
I am kind of disappointed that other religious leaders are being so docile about speaking up about this. Think of it. Supposedly the one thing that they most are against is the removal of religion from public life. Well can you imagine anything that would go farther toward making that happen than having it effectively disqualify you from public trust to ever have been in the same church when something outrageous was said?
SpinCycleRadio
Thank you.
You have hit the nail on the head. The MSM and others mock and laugh at the comment the that Dr. Wright made when he says that this side show is an attack on the black church. But, he is on to something. This is about religious freedom. If a GOD fearing minister does not have the freedom to speak out against war, disease and poverty then what kind of country do we live in?
If no one stands up now, this is going to be a BAD precedent for the future.
Dr. Wright has been for decades a nationally renowed minister and today he has been threatened, dis-invited to important events, and offered honorary doctorate by Northwestern only to have the offer revoked because of this demonizing. He is hurting and you can see it in the way that he is attempting to defend himself and the church tradition in which he grew up.
The framers did not come here.
They also left the church at the door.
We know how ministers can stir things up.
Bin Laden inspired 19 to level NY,
Religious fanatics from all walks foment discord in self serving ways.
The lemmings who listen and follow are either dim witted or just as bad.
Obama used his church to win local elections and payed them back by supporting the NCLB.
To say this is a non issue is naive given the state of the world due to religion.
Politicians who wrap themselve in "the cloth" are suspect.
Please name one member of Rev. Wright's church who has done ANYTHING criminal. He has been the pastor of Trinity Church for 30 years, and a member of his church, Barack Obama, is running for President of the US. Wright must have done something right.
Most people go to church to hang out with their family and friends and for a hope for life after death. Sometimes they try to be better behaving people if that is what they supposed to have a hope for a life after death. What they don't go to church for is to listen to the pastor tell them how to think or what to do. Sure, the pastor tells them what to think and what to do, but it just goes in one ear and out the other. They walk out the door and do whatever they think they should do.
Obama isn't lying when he says he didn't know about somethings that his pastor said. Give me a break. Most people in that church were thinking about what they were going to have for lunch, not what the pastor was saying. Get real everyone. Everyone who goes to church knows this is the truth.
And Obama isn't going to quit his church just because his pastor said some crazy things. You don't just quit church like you quit the gym. You quit church like you divorce your spouse. Your friends and your family go to your church ussually. The people in your church are your community. You don't just quit your community. Give me a break. You don't just uproot yourself from everyone you know cause the pastor said something wrong. Specially when nobody listens to him anyway. Get real.
I agree. If you watch his ENTIRE sermons that contain the oft-repeated offending phrases, the congregants behind him look almost bored!
The "Rev Wright experience" is a blessing in the long run. Rev Wright is a great teacher of African American history. We can"t deny his knowledge, however some people don't like it, because they can understand him. Therefore we like to dismiss him as a bad person. However, if we all open books like him we see that he tells the truth. We may not agree with him but he can back up everything he states.
If you listen to him he is not divisive he want to bring all races and religions together however he believe is can do it with out changing ourselves. The key to his message is we are "different not deficient".
if any one thinks a pastor message of "we are different not deficient" is a racist divisive person there is a problem with the way America thinks.
I think it's really great that the Reverend Wright has purchased a multi million dollar mansion and will now live in a predominately "well to do" white neighborhood. The Chickens are coming home to roost!
Rev Wright declared himself the father and Obama the son - today. 4/28/08
Some pastors consider themselves shepards of their flock.
I'll bet there's some kind of deep meaning there.
I strongly agree with your assessment of what a good pastor is and their words should not be used against their congregants. One may not always agree with whatever his/her pastor says but that does not mean one should abundon that church for another one. We should know that no church is free of these "hot button" issues. Jesus spoke controversially to stir debate to challenge his disciples. If you are a christian and you dont believe in redemption and reconcilliation then you are a LOST SOUL. Is America indeed a Christian nation? If American believe in the true meaning Christianity then these Wright issue is non starter.
Wright is a self aggrandizing loudmouth who will find any live microphone so he can transfix himself with the sound of his own voice. He's the kind of preacher who uses scripture as a front for his arrogance.
There are many preachers like this, but if they are going to insert themselves into political races, then let their churches pay taxes. That's what political organizations do. Wright loves the national attention. Look at his face. It's about his own ego, not God.
It would be pretty tough to figure out how Wright is inserting himself into this race in a political way. Is he on the Clinton payroll?
Wright is indeed inserting himself into the primary race because he is speaking publicly about the controversial comments that have been running in the media. Wright is not to be blamed for those comments running on TV all of the time, but he is fanning the flame by continuing to speak out.
The question is why? He is clearly hurting Obama. Please tell me another reason why he continues to get behind every microphone in sight. He has used the classic "You took me out of context" excuse and he refuses to accept responsibility for his comments.
Wright is all about Wright and he loves the attention.
Cut the crap. You just don't like what he said, and now you're on a mission to find every fault you can nitpick so that you can justify your prejudice.
c1ee,
"Cut the crap?"
I'll take your well thought out, well structured and thoughtful argument under advisement.
Wow.... amazing!
I don't remember anything about Rev. Wright calling any of the MSM and saying... "Here is a portion of one of my sermons I want you to run continuiously."
Anyone who has been attacked the way this man has surely would defend themself. If what you say is to be taken as truth ("Wright loves the nation attention"), after being in the ministry for over forty-years I think he would have presented himself upon the national scene much sooner.
Before this flap, I doubt the nation (other than the folk in Chicago) knew anything about this man. To me, your statement(s) are just rants... but you have the right to express them!.
Bonobou-
You comments come from a good place and I agree with some of what you said. But in the black churches and to church going families all across this country Rev. Jeremiah Wright is a household name. He has been profiled on PBS - Frontline before. PBS did a special on him, his church and the work of his church back in 1987. He is well respected in the religious and theological community nationwide and he is a renowned theological scholar. He was booked up for years to speak at churches and events around the country for years out¦Without the help of his member SBO.
Good Ministers do not preach hate. Stirring up a congregation is to egg them on to do better. They also should also be humble. This guy is both a hater, who teaches and condones hate. Although I am not an African American, after hearing other African American Ministers speak, I am sure Wright does not speak for all African Americans or all African American Churches even though he may beieve in his mind he does.
Calling Jeremiah Wright a hater shows just how much you do not know about him. Saying that he teaches and condones hate is a lie, and a damnable one at that. You are correct that Jeremiah Wright does not speak for all African Americans ministers or African Americans in general. However you err in projecting the attitudes of his enemies on him. Take the time to actually hear what is said rather than rely on (distorted) sound bites from people who have a negative agenda.They are not intellectually honest; do you want to be like them? I encourage you to use your critical thinking skills, because the people that sow hate and misinformation are counting on you to have a visceral reaction, because they know that type of reaction prevents clear and rational thinking as well as rendering one's ability to discern the nuances and subtleties of life inoperable.
There is no subtlety of nuance when someone shouts,
"God damn America!!"
Give me a break.
If you think that Rev Wright does not preach hatred, you should read some of the things that he refers to:
The Black Liberation Theology that he embraces preaches the destruction of the "white enemy". If you doubt this, check the Wikipedia entry for "BLT".
Do you believe the US government is practicing genocide on its black citizens by creating and pushing AIDS? That is what Rev Wright believes, and says... often at high volume.
Do you believe the USA is practicing terrorism towards Palestinians and black South Africans? That is what Rev Wright says.. this gentle intellectual preacher.
Posted April 28, 2008 | 05:53 PM (EST)