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A. Siegel

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A Bipartisan Understanding of Basic Climate Reality?

Posted: 02/29/2012 1:46 pm

Despite the panoply of Republican political elite suffering from acute anti-science syndrome (Santorum, Gingrich, Inhofe), a basic reality:

A majority of Americans (including a plurality of Republicans) understand that climate deniers are deceivers and disconnected from reality.

Earlier today, the Brookings Institution released Belief in Global Warming on the Rebound: National Survey of American Public Opinion on Climate Change. This graphic shows, quite clearly, the reason for the title.

Three major points before delving deeper:
  • To be clear, the title of the report and the subtitle of Figure 1 is simply wrong. Science is not about belief. Look at the question: "Is there solid evidence that the ... Earth has gotten warmer?" Isn't that a yes/no question related to an understanding of fact and what is happening in the real world ("the scientific evidence") rather than an affirmation of belief in, for example, God? As Dr Vicky Hope put it so well
"When climate scientists like me explain to people what we do for a living we are increasingly asked whether we "believe in climate change". Quite simply it is not a matter of belief. Our concerns about climate change arise from the scientific evidence that humanity's activities are leading to changes in our climate. The scientific evidence is overwhelming."
  • This report and this polling isn't exactly 'news' on a number of fronts. It is well in line with polling from a year ago and from last fall.
  • We need to remember that is is impressive that, by more than a two-to-one margin, Americans understand this basic fact about the planet in the face of flat-earth promoting political "leaders" like those named above.
The table provides the perspective by party affiliation and race and, well, yes, there is a serious political divide with the vast majority of self-identified Democrats residing in the warming reality-based world. Notable, however, with a presidential nominee choice between a denier ... and a denier ... and a confused science distorter/avoider ... and ... even a solid plurality of self-identified Republicans know that "there [is] solid evidence that the average temperature on Earth has been getting warming."

Understanding of evidence of climate change by selected demographic categories

Group

Solid Evidence

Not Solid Evidence

Not Sure

Democrat

78%

15%

7%

Republican

47%

42%

11%

Independent

55%

30%

15%

White

64%

26%

10%

Non-White

60%

27%

14%

Male

58%

30%

12%

Female

66%

22%

12%

College Degree

60%

27%

13%

No College Degree

66%

26%

11%

NSAPOCC2011

To be clear, this work is rather limited. The first step of moving from denial to action is recognizing that the planetary system is warming. Then there is the question of causation. It seems almost certain that the numbers re understanding of the scientific understanding of humanity's significant contribution to the warming would be less than the percentage understanding that the planet is warming.

Even so, there is something quite disturbing to consider within the Brookings polling. As Chris Mooney put it:


And here's the thing: Of the deniers--Democrat or Republican, but mostly Republican--81 percent also think that "scientists are overstating evidence about global warming for their own interests." That's a finding I've never seen before--and a very disturbing one.

"Disturbing one" on multiple levels.

To believe that "scientists are overstating evidence" is, by any stretch of the imagination, an anti-science attitude. Science is at the core of modern life -- creating opportunities and problems, improving understanding, etc ... -- and to have such deep anti-science attitudes even about one arena of science creates serious questions about overall scientific understanding and respect for the scientific process.

And, this anti-science attitude highlights that science is -- sadly -- an increasingly partisan issue. Again, back to Chris:

There was a time when I could argue that everybody's basically pro-science -- it's just that Republicans reject it on a few pet issues. Now, though, I'm not so sure. The kinds of sentiments being expressed in these surveys suggest that trust in science itself is becoming partisan.

Roughly one in six of those polled believe that the scientific community is engaged in a global conspiracy to distort science when it comes to climate change. Such a fundamental disdain for the scientific community and scientists in terms of their ethics and professional standards cannot be called anything other than anti-science.

 

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Despite the panoply of Republican political elite suffering from acute anti-science syndrome (Santorum, Gingrich, ...
Despite the panoply of Republican political elite suffering from acute anti-science syndrome (Santorum, Gingrich, ...
 
 
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DXM
An extreme moderate
01:52 PM on 03/02/2012
Speaking as a physicist who has made a career out of making various measurements of clouds and aerosols in the atmosphere (one of the key pieces of knowledge needed for climate modeling), I am requesting that someone please send me the necessary contact info so I can get my fair share of the money from this so called climate conspiracy. I have been holding up my end of the bargain without getting any compensation long enough!!! ;-)
08:44 AM on 03/03/2012
On "Respectful Insolence", which is devoted largely to biomedical science issues, there is an occasional commenter who satirizes these conspiracy theories by posing as a space alien who is controlling the vast Big Pharma conspiracy. The regulars -- who are well-informed medical and public health folks -- play along. It's pretty funny.

LIDAR forever!
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05:42 PM on 03/03/2012
Well, probably the clouds and aerosols game is just too low level. If you had started by specializing in radiative transfer, for example, you could have been ushered from Marseille to Monte Carlo, riding in a Lamborghini with a countess as your maid/chauffeur/bodyguard/mistress, while torching thousand dollar bills to light up your Cuban cigars.

Oh, I know. You think I'm just fantasizing, while I drive my 12 year old RAV4 that now burns both gas and oil.

But NO! My neighbor down the block (the one who sported a 20 foot PALIN FOR PREZ banner from his front deck (in defiance of HOA regs, or did so up until he started wearing an ankle bracelet, prior to attending the county hoosegaw for selling phony stock certificates) told me the above is all true about climatologists. So, being only an atmospheric scientist rather than an all-knowing financial fraudster, naturally I believed him. After all, he drove a HUMMER and was my neighbor. So, he must know.
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YouCantKeepaGoodManDown
don't ban me, bro'
09:42 AM on 03/02/2012
Big deal....the earth is warming. It's just that the cause is not anthropogenic.
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
01:01 PM on 03/02/2012
And this is a false low level denier canard. You could almost fit that on a bumper sticker.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
01:04 PM on 03/02/2012
Dear YouCantKeepaGoodManDown,

What is your scientific education and profession­al experience that somehow leads you to believe that you understand more about climate science than the experts at the U.S. National Academy of Sciences?

----------­----------
"Nearly all climate scientists today believe that much of Earth's current warming has been caused by increases in the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, mostly from the burning of fossil fuels...

"[W]hile future climate change and its impacts are inherently uncertain, they are far from unknown. The combined effects of ice melting and sea water expansion from ocean warming will likely cause the global average sea-level to rise by between 0.1 and 0.9 meters between 1990 and 2100... Those in coastal communities, many in developing nations, will experience increased flooding due to sea level rise and are likely to experience more severe storms and surges. In the Arctic regions... the landscape and ecosystems are being altered rapidly..."

-- Dr. Ralph J. Cicerone, President of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, U.S. Senate testimony, 2005

http://www7.nationalacademies.org/ocga/testimony/Climate_Change_Science_and_Economics.asp
12:05 AM on 03/02/2012
im old i dont care anymore i think its going to come way faster then they think it will . great world to leave to our kids though. man not as smart as we like to think
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01:52 PM on 03/02/2012
That is one of those great ironies....conservatives are far more likely to have children, yet they care the least about the future their children will enjoy.
08:45 AM on 03/03/2012
I'm old, and I do care, because I care what happens to succeeding generations.

Unless you're a hopeless misanthrope, how can you not?
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ILoveFiction
That's unbelievable!
09:07 AM on 03/03/2012
90 years old, bitter, no friends, no family.

Those folks get a free pass.

Everyone else is on the hook for the quality of the future.

By the way, anyone reading this in the first category may feel free to include me in their will.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
04:10 PM on 03/01/2012
American Geophysical Union
---------------------------------------------------------

The Earth's climate is now clearly out of balance and is warming. Many components of the climate system—including the temperatures of the atmosphere, land and ocean, the extent of sea ice and mountain glaciers, the sea level, the distribution of precipitation, and the length of seasons—are now changing at rates and in patterns that are not natural and are best explained by the increased atmospheric abundances of greenhouse gases and aerosols generated by human activity during the 20th century...

In the next 50 years, even the lower limit of impending climate change—an additional global mean warming of 1°C above the last decade—is far beyond the range of climate variability experienced during the past thousand years and poses global problems in planning for and adapting to it. Warming greater than 2°C above 19th century levels is projected to be disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing widespread loss of biodiversity, and—if sustained over centuries—melting much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea level of several meters. If this 2°C warming is to be avoided, then our net annual emissions of CO2 must be reduced by more than 50 percent within this century. .

http://www.agu.org/sci_pol/positions/climate_change2008.shtml
03:22 PM on 03/01/2012
We're causing change in a world that has never seen constant. Please explain ...

What period of time was the perfect climate? What period would you choose to return to?

Would you call me stupid or ignorant or a "flat earther? Of course you would ... that's what you do.

But you never answer the questions.
ubrew12
that crazy uncle from Amarcord
04:03 PM on 03/01/2012
The Hockey Stick plot (which was vindicated by the National Academy of Sciences) has a handle, and a blade. The handle is horizontal: Earth has been at essentially the same temperature for 2000 years. The blade is vertical: Earths temperature is now trending vertically upward. Here's an image for the northern hemisphere:
http://www.newsweekly.com.au/picture.php?id=281
"What period of time was the perfect climate?" Tough to say. I'd choose that period that all of human civilized history was lived under.
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04:05 PM on 03/01/2012
You are asking rhetorical questions, that's why. There is no "perfect" climate, although there ARE better and worse conditions for life. You are not asking the most important question, which is, "What RATE of change in climate is within margins that will not cause widespread extinction?"
01:43 PM on 03/01/2012
The basics of climate reality have to first be understood.

Catastrophic AGW is impossible if heat isn't building up as the models predicted.

There is great debate on where is the missing heat

The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t
Trenberth

http://motls.blogspot.com/2011/01/kevin-trenberths-weird-opinions-about.html

Since 1998 thee has been no build up of heat in the atmosphere and since 2006 when the ARGOS buoy system went on line there has been no build up of heat in the top 2 K of the oceans.

This is impossible if the models are correct but the failure of the models to predict reality shows that they ARE NOT CORRECT.

The alarmists aren't sure if the missing heat is at the bottom of the oceans where it won't cause global warming for 1,000 years or if it was reflected out into space by Chinese coal.

In either case it isn't going to impact us.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
03:30 PM on 03/01/2012
Netdr: "This is impossible if the models are correct but the failure of the models to predict reality shows that they ARE NOT CORRECT."

Stop lying, Netdr.

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2012/02/2011-updates-to-model-data-comparisons/
04:11 PM on 03/01/2012
Realclimate is a known alarmist website.

Their projection of the AR4 prediction of warming is completely inaccurate.

They just hope you don't catch them in the fib.

The inability of climate scientists to predict climate even 11 years in their future proves that their level of understanding is very low !Why spend tens of trillions based on it ?

AR4 predictions .3 ° C warming between 2001 and today.

http://tiny.cc/zwa7x

Actual COOLING between 2001 and today.

20001
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/plot/hadcrut3vgl/from:2001/trend
http://tiny.cc/plt8q

Least squares trend line; slope = -0.00610265 per year

Don’t get hung up on positive or negative the real story is how far wrong the prediction is.

This has been posted to you before but you cling to your delusions. Why ?
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
04:02 PM on 03/01/2012
For the hundredth time, stop your lying netdr. Your errors have been patiently pointed out scores of times. Yet here you are again today with your exact same junk science.

netdr: "The basics of climate reality have to first be understood."

The scientists have developed their understanding over 200 years or more. How long have you been at it netdr?

netdr: "Catastrophic AGW is impossible if heat isn't building up as the models predicted."

The heat is building up. It is measured. More energy enters the outer atmosphere than leaves.

netdr: "There is great debate on where is the missing heat"

If you say so. The scientists who declared the missing heat know where it is. They are working on measurement before they say it is there. They are honest. You are netdr.

netdr: "The fact is that we can’t account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can’t -- Trenberth "

The deniers just love to trump this up into a denier gotcha. In reality, Trenberth knew all along where the heat was. In the sea. His lament was that we don't yet have a sufficiently extensive measurement network.

netdr: "Since 1998 thee has been no build up of heat in the atmosphere"

False. There has been heat build up in the atmosphere. Netdr would not hear about it from his partisan blogs of course.
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
01:08 PM on 03/01/2012
In Germany from 2008 to 2011, on the other hand, the people that think climate change is a serious problem dropped from 60% to 45% and the people that think climate change is not a serious problem rose from 38% to 52%.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1462901111001973

America is often out of sync.
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A. Siegel
02:34 PM on 03/01/2012
There are real issues / problems with polling.

And, note that in the face of economic challenges, it is not surprising that people put seemingly remote from their daily lives issues lower on the pecking order.

And, there is a difference between "serious problem" and "is it an issue/is it real". I doubt that Germans would deny science to the extent of Americans.
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
02:56 PM on 03/01/2012
Good point. The polls don't measure the same thing but they may point to similar political results.
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04:37 PM on 03/01/2012
Inconclusive

Your survey revolves around one town in Germany, Hamburg - maybe an outlier.
So, show us a few dozen surveys from elsewhere.

E.g., the following's based on 74 surveys since 2000, just in AMERICA.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k17856khp026w174/

Meanwhile, it seems America WAS synched with the world, as the global recession, initiated in 2008 by investment banking's financial chicanery, trumped ALL other concerns for two years.

But, relieved we weren't in for 1929 redux, a rebound occurred in 2011.

And by 2011, 11 formal, independent U.S. and U.K. investigations, also in Germany and the Netherlands, of so-called Climategate weighed in, detemining that professional hackers had cherry-picked out-of-context statements in order to smear scientists.

Links to all 11 independent, formal investigations of so-called "climategate" (all exonerations):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/maxwells/heartland-institute-documents_b_1289669_136964791.html

Links to 20 separate confirmations of Michael Mann's hockey stick temperature graph:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/maxwells/the-hockey-stick-and-the-_b_1304399_137653040.html

Climate research credentials of the 16 "scientists" signing the Wall St. Journal's "No need to Panic about Global Warming" letter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/maxwells/chasing-ice-climate-change_b_1300568_137601443.html
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
06:05 PM on 03/01/2012
No, SPIEGEL found similar results nation wide.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,686697-2,00.html

"The strong majority of 58 percent who said they feared global warming about three years ago has declined to a minority of 42 percent."
06:08 PM on 03/01/2012
Climate science is just an ideology, it's called climate science because the ideas change dependent on which way the wind's blowing.
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
11:45 AM on 03/01/2012
IN the human there are two main centers of stimulus/response.
The basal system (brain stem) is where the fight or flight stimulus/response manifests most profoundly. While a very important 'tool' when living in the savanna it has become a liability in our modern world. Because it demands our attention we tend to fill it up with conspiracy theories.

The cognitive center of critical thinking involves our ability to ignore the perceived threat like seeing the grass move (in the savanna) and understand it is caused by the wind and not an animal seeking its lunch.

We operate best when we involve the critical thinking aspect and down play the primal aspect.

The fear based conspiracy message of the oil companies and many posters is a call to the primal and unless we resist the urge to behave like non thinking animals we will follow the herd into a scary and forbidding future.

We can and should consider skeptics as a test of the science and not as proof that the science is wrong. We can think and should realize that conspiracies involving scientists on a world wide level is really nothing more than magical thinking.
01:45 PM on 03/01/2012
I agree that those that see big oil and nefarious motives behind any scientist that honestly questions catastrophic AGW.

The paranoia of the alarmists is funny to watch !
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
03:02 PM on 03/01/2012
Yet it is the conservative mind that develops conspiracy theories such as all the worlds climate scientists are in a conspiracy.

Certainly big oil is not behind all the skeptics some are driven/paid by corporations and individuals who may or may not have an oil interest.

SOme (very few) seem to be scientists who agree warming is happening but are not yet sure as to why.
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
04:09 PM on 03/01/2012
Define catastrophic AGW. Science does not use the expression. It appears to be a windmill term set up by the deniers for convenient tilting.

netdr: "The paranoia of the alarmists is funny to watch ! "

Only to an unbalanced wing nut. Watch for more desertification of Texas this year.
01:54 PM on 03/01/2012
Just as the conspiracy theories about big oil and conspiracies among skeptical scientists.

I believe you would call it paranoid ?
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
04:06 PM on 03/01/2012
Nice spin job. Big energy finances an extensive disinformation network about climate science. Now why would they do that? And why are you always covering up for big energy?

And how many profiles have you had deleted for spamming?
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04:12 PM on 03/01/2012
You know as well as I that on both sides of this issue there are people driven by irrational fear. However, the scientific data supports the so-called alarmists' (as you like to name us) view rather than the so-called deniers' view (as we like to call you.)
11:45 AM on 03/01/2012
We could move them to some pacific atoll where they can find out first hand what a rising ocean can do. That should get us some new "believers".
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grappler1987
Heaven is a gift, not a reward
01:09 PM on 03/01/2012
They'd just build upward like the folks in Galveston, TX did. Humans are amazing.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
04:12 PM on 03/01/2012
Greenland and Antarctica are Melting, and the Melting is Accelerating
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Greenland and Antarctica ice sheets have been melting, and the melting has been accelerating.

That melting is causing sea levels to rise. In a worst-case scenario said melting may contribute over 6 feet in sea level rise by 2100 (and higher in the next centuries).

http://www.nature.com/climate/2010/1004/full/climate.2010.29.html

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.170.8753&rep=rep1&type=pdf

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature10847.html

http://www.nature.com/ngeo/journal/v2/n12/abs/ngeo694.html
01:48 PM on 03/01/2012
The oceans are rising at a rate or 1 cigarette length in 30 years and the rate has been going down recently.

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/
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gallon
Those who fail to remember history are, um
04:09 PM on 03/01/2012
It is just getting started.
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05:39 PM on 03/01/2012
And yet, despite what you consider no big deal, islands have already gone underwater from rising sealevels, including inhabited ones:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/disappearing-world-global-warming-claims-tropical-island-429764.html

I wonder if the folks who lived on that island think this "little" sea-level rise is nothing to worry about?

Oh, and here's a quote from your link:

"They find that GRACE measurements helped to identify the distribution of abnormally high rainfall over land resulting from the recent strong La Niña. This temporary transfer of large volumes of water from the oceans to the land surfaces also helps explain the large drop in global mean sea level. But they also expect the global mean sea level to begin climbing again."
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Gottlieb
hated by left since 1973 and right since 1982
11:00 AM on 03/01/2012
I wonder how many of the skeptics of AGW are doing their religious duty in resisting the green dragon by posting here?

http://www.resistingthegreendragon.com/

For all the skeptics, who need more arguments, I recommend you send away for their complete package for the low price of just $71.90

I learned everything I needed to know once I read the list of "Special Appearances" to realize the why so many deniers are Republicans.
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Katmandu01
05:22 PM on 03/01/2012
Thanks. These folks have a lot to say as well:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t863788/
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Gottlieb
hated by left since 1973 and right since 1982
10:37 PM on 03/01/2012
I think almost all these people and groups were at CPAC this year. The hate community has so much in common with each other.
charles77
Just the Facts Please
11:00 AM on 03/01/2012
Most are not really "deniers".

The huge majorities of so-called “deniers” are not really saying it is ok to put more and more CO2 into the air. The real problem is that every solution offered to them costs more than they can afford. They understand that the whole purpose of a “carbon tax” or “cap and trade”, just as proponents do, is to raise prices on current forms of energy so new forms can compete. They read that many of these new forms of energy are many times more expensive that coal, that means electric bills many times higher. They are hearing about a future where they cannot afford energy, that’s too hard to contemplate, hence the denial. And all the science cannot convince them the consequences of putting CO2 in the air, is worse than a future they cannot afford.

And for the Al Gore side who love point to France and say SEE, the French only have 1/3 the carbon footprint per person of an American, so we should do better. Then turn around and fight any new nuclear plants in the US. Obama’s DOE Head Dr. Chu, said wind and solar cannot supply over 20-25% without storage.and cost 5 times more. And unlike Al Gore, Dr Chu is a PhD in PHYSICS and a Nobel Prize winner in PHYSICS, Google Dr. Chu’s many interviews. It is NOT “Coal” or “wind and solar”, it’s Coal or Nuclear, with a little wind and solar.
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A. Siegel
05:02 PM on 03/01/2012
Sigh ...

Actually, if we actually pay attention to real costs and real benefits, climate mitigation is a highly profitable (societal) investment.

Essentially every major analysis related to climate change has been stove-piped and left out many of the most important value streams. (I could send you to 100s of pages I've written on this, see: http://getenergysmartnow.com/2010/06/16/all-costs-no-benefits/)

And, the whole point of a "carbon tax" is not to "raise prices on current forms of energy" but to have "current forms of energy" incorporate costs that are now externalize onto others than the producers/users of that energy. http://getenergysmartnow.com/2010/04/16/the-most-important-number-youve-never-heard-of/
charles77
Just the Facts Please
08:56 PM on 03/01/2012
But the constrant is energy prices cannot go up> ANY government that raisesenergy prices will be voted out.
10:44 AM on 03/01/2012
Why don't we just ask the deniers to put their money where their collective mouth is? Just as we register our political affiliations, let's ask folks officially to register whether or not they think global warming in particular, and science in general is a bit conspiracy? Those who register as science-deniers then get to forfeit all medical care (after all, it's science driven!), all federal assistance for climate-related natural disasters, and any employment that has anything to do with science or its products (thus freeing up those jobs for sane people). That would go a long way toward reducing health care costs and federal expenditures, while also creating job opportunities for many of the currently unemployed. Added bonus: if you don't like these consequences, and thus register on the pro-science side, you have to shut up about conspiracies!
01:50 PM on 03/01/2012
Medicine is 1,000 times more verifiable than CAGW!

I am not saying climate scientists have horns and a tail . The deficiencies in climate science are inherent in the science itself.

Comparing Climate science with Medicine for example is not rational.

The differences are, age of science, rate of learning, and objectivity of observations.

Climate science is a baby science and 99 % of all studies have been done since 1988 and Dr Hansen’s speech to congress. Medicine is thousands of years old.

The rate of learning is faster for medicine since studies can be completed in days or weeks and contaminating factors can be eliminated.

Models are the best way to test climate science against future data but they take 20 years or so to verify or disprove the assumptions.

The rate of accumulation of knowledge in climate science is much slower than in medicine.

Medicine is much more objective and the penalty for fooling oneself is more obvious.

Doctors found that they unintentionally overstated the effectiveness of the drug they were studying so they devised the double blind experiment. No such experiment is possible in climate science.

We don’t have 20 spare earths to drag into a lab and experiment with so of course climate science is less precise and less objective.
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Publicola
Reality has a scientific bias
04:11 PM on 03/01/2012
Netdr aka Neptune2*:

"The rate of learning is faster for medicine since studies can be completed in days or weeks and contaminating factors can be eliminated."

You have demonstrated that you at best don't know what you are talking about yet again, Netdr.

How long do you think it took medical scientists to reliably determine, for example, that smoking causes cancer in humans?

Hint: "weeks" is ridiculously short.

[ Rest of Netdr's repeatedly-recycled Gish Gallop* snipped ]

-----------------------
* "Neptune2" is one of Netdr's many online personas. Other personas include: "Texas-Titan", "Ptolemy101", "NGC2623", "Hoosier-Daddy25" & "leesburg-larry".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astroturfing
http://www.monbiot.com/2011/02/23/robot-wars/

** Gish Gallop: "A debating technique that involves drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood that has been raised... It is named after creationism activist and professional debater Duane Gish."
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop
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03:38 PM on 03/03/2012
Absolutely ridiculous. Medical science is not as specialized, covers a broad range of conditions, and many such conditions require long periods of time to properly study. We've had decades to study cancer, and for the most part we've only managed to improve how we treat the symptoms - not prevent cancer from forming. There is no equivalent of a vaccine for cancer yet, and for the most part all we've learned on that front is that such a thing is likely impossible. And this is just cancer. Alzheimers, schizophrenia, and countless other conditions are still just as much a mystery to us. A wise man knows he knows little. From your assumptions, a wise man you are not.
10:43 AM on 03/01/2012
until water vapor is included in the projections and it's effects documented and proven its all lies. they take out the water vapor in the calculations to improve their point. Mis information is always wrong, or the deliberate attempts to hide data that disproves this theory. When they lie even if its for a good result means your not taken seriously.
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chrisd3
11:27 AM on 03/01/2012
Water vapor is always included in the projections.

The lies are the ones being fed to you by industry shills, oil state politicians, amateur bloggers, and right-wing talking heads. The claim that water vapor isn't included in the models is one of them. A big one. It is a flat-out, bald-faced, big fat monster lie.

(And, by the way, removing water vapor from the models would reduce warming, not increase it. Not a very good way to "improve their point", is it?)
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Trepasky
Sanity is neither free nor easy
11:50 AM on 03/01/2012
You seem to be an expert. Please send the report to NOAA as they in your estimation need the information you apparently know. Be sure to let them know they are lying!
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Gottlieb
hated by left since 1973 and right since 1982
10:38 AM on 03/01/2012
On complex issues, too many people follow trusted authority figures in determining what to believe especially when it reinforces their own beliefs.

http://www.meltonengineering.com/Docs/Why%20is%20Climate%20Science%20So%20Hard%20To%20Believe.pdf
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StephenBP
What's he building in there?
10:30 AM on 03/01/2012
Climate reality: Agricultural zones are moving towards the poles; i.e., it is definitely getting warmer in our lifetimes.

Climate unreality: There is a huge conspiracy of scientists fudging data in order to destroy the fossil fuel industry.
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A. Siegel
05:03 PM on 03/01/2012
Well put ... thank you.