Who Can Beat McCain?
Lotta folks on this site hating Hillary because she's a woman. Lotta folks on this site loving Hillary because she's a woman. Makes me think that, in some quarters, men have been uncomfortable with women a lot longer than whites have been uncomfortable with blacks.
Sometimes I honestly believe that a racist white guy would vote for Obama over anyone like his wife or mother. A woman as Commander-and-Chief? Uh-uh, they say.
How sad.
Lotta folks worried about Obama's level of experience. Whatever you do, don't buy into that Republican bullshit. Obama is FDR compared to this Bush. The GOP committed every possible sin in order to get Bush elected. They forged a whole set of new ones to get him reelected. Everyone around the world recognizes that America is in real trouble. Most Americans do, too.
The past eight years have been the moral low point of the American experience.
I have said in these pages before that either candidate has the potential to make a very good president. Clinton is smart and shrewd in ways that will serve her well in office. I think she would play a Democratic Congress like a violin. Obama will have the great fortune of being able to attract his own version of the "Best and the Brightest", an army of brilliant and capable reform-minded people who would normally abjure political careers as the result of their inherent cynicism.
Who can beat McCain? That is all that matters.
McCain is another right-wing, retro, deficit-loving, never-seen-a-defense-appropriation-I-didn't-like tool. But there are a lot of people in this dumbed-down country that will buy that. They want to turn the clock back. To what, I don't know. Which Democrat will give a critical number of Americans the courage to move forward? This election represents a turning point for this country, not only internally, but regarding our future among the other nations of the world. America will begin to, albeit slowly, irreversibly go down if we do not get this right.
It is wrong to assume that either of these Democrats is less qualified than the other. But Democrats must think like Republicans, now more than ever. Who can win?
You think major GOP fundraisers sat back and clucked over the nomination of Bush in 2000? You must be joking. They held their noses and went along for the ride because Republicans like James Baker and that maniac Richard Mellon Scaife have their hands on the money valve and they anointed Bush. The GOP plays to win. They don't have good candidates all that often, but they don't let that stop them. Everyone digs in and puts their shoulder behind even the lamest nominee.
If you want to advocate for Clinton or Obama, do so in the context of how they will defeat McBush.
PS: One possible consequence of an Obama presidency? Supreme Court Justice Hillary Clinton. Dang, that sounds good.
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Alec, I really don't get the sense that people dislike Hillary because she's a woman. I just plain don't see it...anywhere. Sure, there may be a few, but she's so established, that her identity is really that of just another politician, with woman being a descriptor somewhere far down the scale, well below card-stacking disingenuous propagandist, disinformation freak, and person lacking emotional intelligence, et. al. These things have come to define her more than anything else.
They only time the idea of misogyny enters my mind or any one else I know, is when a Clinton supporter uses it in a sentence. That doesn't make it so. Cynically, Clinton gets mileage out of claiming she's oppressed, and that's the last thing she is. And I think it does a dis-service to the truly oppressed and disenfranchised to try to upstage THEM with her false claim.
The reason she is losing this election is her head-banging reliance on dishonesty. Psychologically, she acts like an empty vessel with a shape-shifting image painted on the outside. It's tragic, really. Obama had the courage to take the road less traveled, and it caught her off guard. We're not falling for the "gotcha" and "OMG" fear and smear politics anymore, at least those of us who are trying our darnedest to pay full attention in spite of our busy lives. I wish her well, but she's not mature enough to be the kind of president we need now.
...." really don't get the sense that people dislike Hillary because she's a woman. I just plain don't see it...anywhere."
Strange, as a 50 year old WHITE woman, I see it everywhere.
Walk a mile in our shoes.
Alec, next time you might want to latch on to one argument and lead to it's truthful conclusion with a series of equally truthful premises. Your assertion seems to be nominating a candidate who can beat McCain, rather than nominating a candidate who best represents your views and then worrying about whether he or she can beat McCain. That's called setting yourself up for profound disappointment. Then, you riff like a man unhinged about some unnamed Republican "sins" which got Bush elected twice. Seriously? You're reduced to speculating about some GOP black magic? It's called campaigning and winning, last time I checked. If you ask half the country who voted for Bush why they did so, unless the GOP put some spell over them and drove them zombie-like to the polls, it would most likely come down to the fact that they liked Bush more than Gore or Kerry. That's pretty much it. There's nothing spooky going on. But my all-time favorite lame-brained remark was that people should overlook "Republican bullshit" regarding Obama's lack of experience. Bullshit? Okay, forget the Republicans for one second and lay out exactly what Obama's experience is that we don't know about? While on the one hand you say that Obama's lack of experience is "Republican bullshit" you spin right around and say that he'll be able to convene the best and brightest minds. Why would he need to do that? Oh yes, because he's a latter-day FDR. Huh?
And a lot of people on this site dislike Hillary because she's a liar.
http://votechooser.com/
I wouldn't vote for a shape-shifting fascist like Hillary. And I wouldn't vote for an inexperienced newbie who speaks of change but doesn't say what he'll change (as much as you hate hearing it, Baldy, it's the truth). I don't care if one's a woman and one's a black man - neither are going to improve this country, they're both doing the same thing and lately seem to be running just to win.
And I'm sure you LOVE Hillbillary's health care plan:
- article; http://www.naturalnews.com/022612.html
- video; http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=wcg040&s=3
Pretty great, eh? Who should've made it to the top? Ron Paul, of course. :] Others opinions may differ, but he shows and proves he would do a lot of good for this country. Mr. Baldwin, it seems like you support Hillary and Obama because one's a woman and one's a black man. Neither will pull our troops out of Iraq immediately, neither will send the illegals back to where they came from, both support the murder of unborn children, both seem to support the No Child Left Behind Act - which I heard has done more harm than good.
Re-defeat communism, don't vote Clinton. (:
Souvenirs:
http://thoseshirts.com/anti-hillary-shirts.html
http://thoseshirts.com/anti-obama-shirts.html
1. Men against Hillary do have "mommy issues" - they viscerally fear Alpha females and that is why they cheer letting others beat up a poor, wretched country like Iraq and feel pride for America.
2. Obama is creeepy and crass.
3. Inexperience in politics brought us George W. Bush. You think we would have learned something. But now Obama people feel inexperience is his best virtue.
4. Obama people are not about change. They are lazy and just want to stick it to the "establishment" they see as the reason they are held down, and not look at their own laziness and lack of initiative.
5. Obama people are so poisoned by fearful political correctness they have lost all street smarts and common sense. White people supporting Obama have abused the system for favoritism so long they deeply feel guilty and hope to atone by supporting a sanitzed black - as long as Michelle keeps wearing pearls and Obama hides the dasheki he wears to Racist Wright's holier-than-thou roller excuse for a taax-exempt church.
1. Mommy issues? If you think this is a serious issue on electing a president, perhaps you need a talk with your therapist.
2. Creepy and crass? I think if you went on who you'd rather hang with, give me a guy I can drink a beer with and has a nice 10 foot jump shot anyday. Besides, he wasn't under "sniper fire".
3. You want to talk experience? What did HRC's 35 years of experience amount to besides NAFTA and sending 4000 troops to die? And voted for it TWICE! Give me someone with less experience and right on the issues than experienced and wrong. DEAD WRONG.
4. Obama people want to stick it to the establishment? If HRC's health care plan goes through, isn't that sticking to the health care industry? If we pull out of Iraq, isn't that sticking it to the military establishment?
5. That's such a racist statement it's hardly worthy of a reply. That's like saying Hilary voting for the war (TWICE) makes her less feminine because women love peace because only they understand what it's like to give life.
Seriously, if you can't make sound arguements based on facts and logic. just don't vote. We don't need another four years of Mc Bush, even if it wears a skirt.
You nailed it!!! That's why I'm for Obama. He's creepy,crass,and I'm lazy and want to stick it to the establishment!!! With your powers of perception you should be on Fox News!
Just one question, though, If Obama and his supporters have lost all street smarts, why are we beating Hillary, the inevitable. LOL.
Hard to imagine a post like this coming from Jack Donaghy, but I was surprised. Way to go Jack.
Alec - I take offense to the first line of your post. I would argue that most of the people here at HuffPo don't hate Hillary because she is a woman - they hate her for the same reason I do: she's a lying, comiving, duplicitous, do-anything-to-win, i-know-better-than-you-so-shut-up, it's-my-way-or-the-highway, if-I-cant-have-it-no-one-can, Mark Penn-hiring, sniper-fire-lying, i-fucked-up-a-great-chance-for-national-health-care-in-1993-and-I-wont-apologize-for-it, i-wont-quit-because-its-my-turn, i-am-only-a-nominee-because-of-my-husband-so-how-can-i-be-the-example-of-empowered-women-everywhere, maybe-if-i-keep-mentioning-Reverend Wright-people-will-listen, i-was-against-NAFTA-even-though-I-was-for-it-at-the-time person.
See the difference?
Ha ha ha I couldn't have said it better. She is such an awful person. And What kind of Supreme Court justice would she make? A terrible one. She has no principles!
A lot of celebrities should just keep their mouth shut.
Damn skippy for the most part, but Baldwin and Shear aren't bad. The one who's really starting to wear thin is Maher, who lets slip a surprisingly racist and sexist POV more and more every time he opens his yap.
Good article Alec except you lose it when you propose Hillary Clinton as a Supreme Court Justice. There should be some key role for Hillary to play in the Democratic leadership whether in the Senate or a Democratic Presidential Administration. Her political experience is fairly long however, her legal experience is limited. A nomination of Hillary for the Supreme Court would be as ridiculed, and probably rightly so, as Bush's nomination of Harriet Myers.
I yawn at the suggestion. It should be Hillary as the president and Obama to the Supreme Court. No ifs, no buts. . .
How about Hillary goes back and does her job as Senator for a couple days instead of campaigning perpetually? How about Hillary just goes away? even better.
You make some good points, Alec, and elegantly at that. You're a hell of an actor and part of that is your smarts. But I don't think people hate Hillary because she's a woman so much that she's an irritating one. A little too much posing and the big clown grin and....
She was much more impressive when she was grilling the General and the diplomat. She looked tough and and sounded sharp and her hair even looked hot. Too bad she can't pull that off during her political rallies when she suddenly puts on the clown suit and stuff flies out of her mouth that embarrasses us all, especially when she goes after Barrack. She pushes the dumbdown button. Something happens to her.
Good point, though. Either one would be light years ahead of anything the Republicans put on the table. Either one could obliterate McCrazy.
Perhaps you should be asking, who can help save your species. It does not have long to decide.
There are many things to admire about Senator Clinton. My problem with her candidacy is her and her husband's long-term affiliation with the Democratic Leadership Council. A previous post mentioned President Clinton's endorsement/push-thru of NAFTA, and today's HuffPo notes his very lucrative connection to the Columbia trade deal, which is why Senator Clinton got rid of Mark Penn (a good example of a DLC type). Senator Clinton's indebtedness to the corporatocracy augurs badly for her likely economic policies, which would be Rubin/Greenspan/Milton Friedman favoritism to corporations and the wealthy -- Main Street/Middle class/Poor be damned. This is reflected in her health insurance plan, and unfortunately, also in Obama's healthcare plan.
A friend observed: "The American economic system is truly a 'welfare state' -- welfare for the rich and well-connected, and dog-eat-dog 'free enterprise' for every one else". The Clintons and Bushies are just continuing this long-term reality. I don't know exactly how Obama proposes to deal with these issues. But I absolutely know McCain's position: He has a loooong history of pandering to the rich and well-connected...he dumped his first wife to marry into a very well-to-do Arizona beer distributorship.
And I don't hate Hillary Clinton at all. I would be delighted to vote for a woman for president, but she'd have to be much more progressive than Senator Clinton.
Alec ,I love you're acting and you're a very funny man (or should I say person) but I and most of the people I know, are tired of hearing that if you don't like Hillary Clinton you don't like women. Sure she's a woman, but so is Barbara Boxer, whose shown more balls (oops, there I go again) than 98 per cent of living politicians. I know as a long time, loyal democrat you've had associations with the Clintons over a lengthy span of time, but this is not the 90's - this is a new day in American politics. Bush is the Herbert Hoover of present day (that's giving him to much credit).
Obama, like FDR, has the formula for what the times demand. Hillary, I'm sad to say, has been corrupted by all the good ole' boys she's sought to emulate. I LOVE Claire McCaskell - now, isn't she a woman.
Thanks for reminding me, Bob, why I don't like the Clintons. It's because of Bill. And she's carrying his garbage with her. And I'm not talking about Lewinsky. It's all the other stuff that puts money in their pockets.
Alic - I used to like you and used to feel sympathetic towards your situation but to make this election a choice between a woman and a black guy now make me to re-thing about whether you have good judgment or not...and the answer is NOT. I think you are trying to make up for the woman vote in your household or the one you lost in court...keep ranting, it suited you better than writing political narratives.
Oh, Alec, Alec, Alec.... sweetie, dearie, honey... Bless your heart*
Your own personal history with women is certainly questionable. And, I don't think you are well enough aquainted with those of us who are not voting for Hillary to say that it is because she is female.
Alec, honey, little darlin, let this ol' Texas girl tell you right off that you are wrong about that. I know, I know... for that to be wrong, you now have to actually LISTEN to some of us to see why she is not acceptable. And, I know listening to other people's arguments is not your strong point.
There are quite a few of us who do not like the fact that she is not honest nor honorable. She lies.
*To find out the true meaning of "Bless your heart" ask any female from Texas.
uhhh, im a Texas Girl as well, speak for yourself please.
oh and please specify why you dont like her. "honest nor honorable"....thats about as specfic and substantial as "change you can believe in".
We've all heard the lies. It's common knowledge.
She told the sniper lie three times (at least)
She made the war in Iraq possible. I've seen her experience and judgement in action and it SUCKS. She can't even run a campaign. THe media all but promised her the nomination and sh was totally unprepared for any serious opposition. Booo Hoo Poor Hillary. She is probably stamping her little feet right now
Bad advise Alec, the example you give is based on the fundamental Republican notion of Democracy, namely that the majority of citizens don't know what good for them and cannot be trusted to decide for themselves. Therefore what ever works to get around this problem is fair game. For the democrats to resort to the tactic you recomend would undermind what is their fundamental understanding of Democracy, namely that when free from overwheming fear and duress the majority must be trusted to decide the national course or revise the course within the bounds of the constitution. To use the tactics that allowed perfidy to ursurb the White House would make the Democratics undemocratic . Democratics have their own "appropriate vices". What is expected behavior for Republicans, ( Father, forgive them for they know not what they do), is unforgiveable in the Democrats.
Ultimately, I think that which ever Democrat wins the nomination will beat McCain fairly easily. McCain is a lousy speaker and has no actual policy development on any issue besides "100 years is fine with me". Just put him on the debate stage ONCE with either Clinton or Obama and he'll look so anachronistic and so unbelievable and unlikable that the Dems can only lose by playing their own hand poorly. For the sake of the country, I hope that the candidate is Obama because I think that he is a brilliant thinker with amazing leadership abilities but also because I think that Clinton will continue to raise the ire of all "Clinton haters" from both sides of the aisle and our hands will be tied. We need to remember all the young voters who are invigorated politically by Obama's candidacy, and that they have no reliable party loyalty that'll cause them to vote for Clinton. We need Obama right now! I also really believe that both Clinton and Obama do not think of this as a game... that they are grown-ups with real world views and whoever does not win the nomination will ultimately endorse the other candidate fully. Our history shows that we're "ready" for men of color before we're "ready" for women in positions of authority (witness the voting rights history), but it also shows that we can grow when our boundaries are pushed and stretched by activism.
renoir...you honestly think a Dem is going to beat McCain "fairly easily?"
ARE YOU NUCKIN' FUTZ?
The Republicans have a TON of money behind them and their candidate, and you shouldn't be fooled. They bought the last presidency and they intend to buy this one.
McCain is not going to look "unlikeable." He's a war hero and that'll be played up.
All the dirtiest tricks in the world will be employed to get this guy into office, and make no mistake about it, Barack Obama does not have what it takes to deflect those dirty tricks.
Hillary Clinton does. She has had to put up with so much bs over the past decade it has made her a stronger person, and that is the person we (Dems) need in order to play in this arena.
Whatever Democrats do, just BACK THE CANDIDATE, whether it is Obama or Clinton...don't do that whiney "If we can't do it my way, it's the highway" stuff.
BACK THE CANDIDATE and back her or him ALL THE WAY. You got that?
Otherwise, it'll be ten more years in that Godforsaken place they call Iraq.
Not so fun fact: 4,000 plus Americans have been killed in Iraq and SIX THOUSAND OR MORE have come home and KILLED THEMSELVES after being over there.
Can you stomach that? I cannot.
BACK THE CANDIDATE. U.S. OUT OF IRAQ NOW!
Since when did "war hero" include guys that never fought in a battle but dropped bombs on civilians thousands of feet below them and then got their plane shot down in a war that never should have happened?
In the 2004 presidential elections, 61% of registered voters voted. The election was really close, right? The repug numbers say that Bush won 51%. That means 51% of 61%, right? So we're talking 30ish% of voters cast their vote for Bush. Bush had a highly motivated voter block, right? So let's presume that he got as many of the religious right and of the party loyalists and the uninformed that he possibly could. We know that, right? What we have TODAY are unprecedented numbers of Democrats voting... and record number of youth voters. IF we have the motivated base and the excited electorate... and for the college kids that means Obama, then we can, yes, easily carry this. So long as we keep our voter numbers up they will not get to steal this one... it will be unquestionable. So, yes, I do think that we can win this one fairly easily. I think it's ours to lose.
The repugs don't thrill for McCain. The party loyalists will rally, but will the religious right? They'll stay home and pray.
I live in Arizona, and believe me, McCain looks deeply unlikable when stumping. He's a very poor speaker and gets all crankypuss. His hero status is leaking water due to his blindness re: what's going on in Iraq, Guantanamo, the White House. He's a has-been.
As for money, Obama is WAY ahead of anyone in fund-raising.
Chin up, Writergirl!
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