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Alex Mallory

Alex Mallory

Posted: February 16, 2011 01:16 PM

The Real Reason Private Schools Drop AP Tests


Ed. Note: The previous version of this story stated that top-rated liberal arts colleges only rarely give course credit for advanced placement test scores. However, it was later ascertained that many top universities (including Williams, Harvard, Princeton, and Columbia) do accept a range of AP scores for course credit. The story has been updated to be factually correct.

Advanced Placement in American high schools has become an enormously popular trend, boasting an annual participation of almost 2 million students taking classes in the more than 30 available subjects.

The perceived advantages for students taking Advanced Placement (AP) courses are that they have the opportunity to show their mastery of college-level work to college admission officers and are also able to skip a broad array of introductory level undergraduate courses in many colleges -- providing that they achieve a grade of three or higher on a year-end exam (scored on a scale of one to five). Over the years -- to a great extent because of these "advantages" -- high schools in New York City have ramped up their AP programs.

Over the past decade, however, a growing number of important and influential dissenters have openly rebelled against the trend. They include the Independent Curriculum Group, which is an alliance of "leading college preparatory schools that emphasize site-based, teacher-generated curriculum for advanced courses." The ICG's primary initiative is to eliminate all Advanced Placement from high school curricula. The group contends that AP forces teachers to conduct superficial and mechanical survey courses. They argue the frenetic pace required to cover all the material on an Advanced Placement year-end exam leaves no time for the flexibility and in-depth topic studies conducive to more effective learning. Fieldston, Riverdale Country, Trevor Day and Berkeley Caroll are among the New York City elite private school members that have dropped AP courses.

But don't AP courses help students get into the college of their dreams? And would some of New York's top private schools put themselves and their students at a disadvantage solely to preserve the integrity of their own courses? Not likely. So what's really going on?

The schools rejecting AP classes have finally acted on what they had recognized for a long time: AP not only restricts curricula that is vastly superior when decided by teachers in the classroom, but is also a hindrance to submitting a top-notch college application by draining too much valuable time from studying for the SAT and preparing for other courses.

As was discussed in my last post, "Preparing for the SAT," adequate preparation for the SAT requires intense study over many months. Most selective high schools in New York City recommend their students to take the exam in the spring of junior year and, if they are dissatisfied with the first score, gain in the fall of senior year. The majority in New York City takes the exam at least twice. In addition, most students will have to sit for two SAT II subject tests. Like the SAT, they are normally taken in the spring of junior year and the following senior fall semester. While all of this is going on, schoolwork remains extremely demanding as 16- and 17-year-olds navigate the most significant transcript semesters of their high school experience. So, when one to three AP exams -- which are punishingly demanding in both scope and difficulty -- are thrown into the mix, students are ready for a meltdown and rightfully so! Advanced Placement classes can change the spring semester of junior year from challenging to impossible.

While the College Board advertises that one of the benefits of enrolling in AP is to place out of introductory courses in college, top-rated liberal arts colleges -- e.g., Williams and Amherst, and Ivy League schools -- have extremely high standards and often require departmental exams to verify a student's proficiency in a particular subject despite top AP scores. And after "doing business" together for decades, college admission officers are intimately familiar with New York City's selective high schools. They know what earning an "A" in any class means at Riverdale Country as opposed to Trevor Day, or at Stuyvesant in relation to Bronx Science. Adding an AP to a course designation makes very little or no difference. New York City high schools that have dropped AP courses are trailblazers that deserve high praise.

There is no doubt that many more will follow.

 
Ed. Note: The previous version of this story stated that top-rated liberal arts colleges only rarely give course credit for advanced placement test scores. However, it was later ascertained that many ...
Ed. Note: The previous version of this story stated that top-rated liberal arts colleges only rarely give course credit for advanced placement test scores. However, it was later ascertained that many ...
 
 
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11:28 AM on 02/23/2011
Doing AP level courses puts American high schools on par with European high schools. If you look at entry requirements in European universities, you can see what they require, eg in Switzerland, they require a high school diploma and 5 AP exams.

Take a look at the AP International Diploma page and click on the AP International Recognition link to find universities that take them. Some of the email contacts are outdated, but if you go to the universities that they show, you can look at their entry requirements and see.
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mpmc23
01:44 AM on 02/22/2011
The problem I see is that students feel pressured to take too many (if any). They're not prepared for the rigor/workload of 5 APs plus lacrosse practice every day. Schools and families fetishize them... chasing "selectivity" over genuine human maturation.
12:07 PM on 02/21/2011
Breaking News: AP classes are hard; nepotism allows the privileged and powerful to remain privileged and powerful without taking them.
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broui
No d#%& cat. No d#%& cradle.
05:40 PM on 02/21/2011
AP classes are breadth over depth. They DO NOT prepare students for college. They are not all they are cracked up to be.
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CarmenIbanez
My micro-bio is empty.
08:15 PM on 02/21/2011
AP tests are hard. AP classes can be, but aren't necessarily. Since the pass rate for most of the tests is 50%, I'd say they aren't hard enough.
09:31 PM on 02/20/2011
AP tests got me out of two college English classes. Major bonus.
Also got me out of intro calculus, which was a mistake I never
really caught up from in the umpty subsequent engineering math
classes. Also got to bag a chemistry and physics intro course.
Not bad for classes I had to take in high school anyway (in New
York at the time, these were an option above Regents and
General tracks). The AP English class I and my cohorts took
was a full time, year long, regular class only it was taught by
the best English teacher. No fakery there.

I guess this education profiteer doesn't like them, but they were
mostly an upside for me. Hell, what's a semester hour cost these
days? And you get out of 3-4 per AP class, maybe more if you
ace the test (why I got out of two, not one, English courses).

The real crap is "preparing for SAT". School and paying attention
is supposed to do that. Cramming later might get you in somewhere.
Plenty of people selling hope and a cheat sheet out there. But a
real course where you, like, learn stuff will be a lot better for you.

Admissions people know AP classes are harder and taking them
shows willingness to put forth effort. Maybe that means something
to them.

But I'd skip a school that refused to honor the credit. You betcha.
It can only be a sign of further screwing-over to come.
10:44 PM on 02/20/2011
Well if you tested out, did that mean you ended up paying less somehow? Or did you still have to take the same number of credits as everyone else? I'm thinking there was no financial benefit to testing out.
12:11 AM on 02/21/2011
Yes, you do pay less. Both of my kids matriculated into college at the sophomore level because of their AP courses. We only had to pay for three years of college instead of four. $30,000 a year tuition x 2 = $60,000 we saved in tuition costs.
09:15 PM on 02/21/2011
Yes, full credit for classes I didn't have to take.
09:19 PM on 02/20/2011
I taught college physics and had many experiences with students that took AP classes. Since my courses were sophomore level classes, I would not allow students to ‘skip’ this important one year course. The major differences between my courses and AP courses have to do with nuance and purpose. One studies introductory physics not only to solve the overly simplified problem sets that are applications of the currents chapters’ presentation of classical physics, but also to come to realize how physicists think. I consider it important for students to learn that science is a developing subject that at one point in time was not as well understood as it is today and that what we understand today is not the last word in the field. More importantly, teach them that they too can contribute. Many of the students that came from the AP courses appreciated this distinction and enjoyed the historical and logical developments that gave rise to the formulas that they had learned how to manipulate in HS. Unfortunately, there were some that already ‘knew everything’ and were not interested in becoming ‘confused’ by alternative presentations of these ideas. For those students I blame the AP style of course for destroying their inherent curiosity and replacing it with a know-it-all attitude that may serve them well for getting their 5s on AP tests but does little to prepare them for real world problems or even possibly further study in the field beyond the undergraduate level.
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Thordeer
Greed has won over principle.
07:18 PM on 02/20/2011
Well I got 2 million on my SAT and I was dorking my girlfriend at the time and surfing in Hawaii and I went to Harvard for my PhD in math at age 13 after winning the Intel Sience competition and the AMC math test nationally. I also won 7 gold medals at the junior olympics in swimming. And I had 13 years of college credit when I started at University, so I went straight into the oral exams for my Ph D. Then JK Rowling stole my idea for Harry Potter. And the Da Vinci Code was my idea, too.
08:01 PM on 02/20/2011
I can't believe we live in a nation where advance education is denigrated, where people on the national political stage tar the educated as elite, and ignorance as some sort of down-home, folksy, American value.

But here we are.

It's a very simple decision. If you think intellectual advancement is of worth, encourage your students to take AP courses. If you think it's a misuse of time, then by all means, don't. Your children can find other things to fill their time, just like Thordeer.
07:06 PM on 02/20/2011
Until the education system finds a way to teach students material without teaching towards some standardized test, it is in the student's best interest to study for an exam that will have more rewards than simply putting a score on a college application. What it comes down to is the quality of the teachers and their ability to be inventive with the coursework, as well as the student's maturity to accept the demands of the workload. I passed 10 AP exams, graduated in three years from a major university, and was able to save money and avoid introductory level classes that had hundreds of students in them. At my high school, you had the option as to whether or not you wanted to take these demanding courses, but most students took them because of the GPA inflation involved, for example if you received an A you would get a 5.0 on a GPA scale of 4.0. The only contingency to receiving this inflation was to simply sit for the end of year exam, which is why some tests are blank or have joke responses. I would like to see a curriculum that isn't completely based towards a single examination that is supposed to reflect your "knowledge." By placing a lot of responsibility on the students, AP courses do what they are designed to do, which is to prepare you for college, regardless of the outcome of the test.
06:38 PM on 02/20/2011
According to the College Board, which administers both the SATs and AP classes, students who take AP courses do better on their SATs than students who don't. They also do better in college when you compare students GPA who took AP classes with those who didn't.

College intro classes are not in depth by nature. Students who take AP courses miss nothing.

I see nothing wrong with lauding the benefits of AP's money saving advantages . If you don't think high schoolers are ready to bare some of the responsibility for their own future, just when do you plan on teaching them this important lesson? Some parents believe adolescence should be a carefree time and enjoyed as long as possible. They have my full support in raising their kids the way they want. I viewed adolescence as a transitional period to adulthood. It was a time when I gave my children more freedom but also more responsibility. Because of their AP courses, I figure they paid for 25% of their college tuition, with their father and I paying the other 75%. It made the notion that they were 100% responsible for their own lives by the time they graduated from college a readily accepted and understood concept.

“From the NYT, December 2009...

Students who graduated from college in 2008 with loans carried an average debt of $23,200 — an increase of nearly 25 percent, or $4,550, when compared with those who graduated just four years earlier.

I
10:49 PM on 02/20/2011
I'd guess the reason why "students who take AP courses" do better on the SAT than those who don't, is simply because the smarter kids will take the AP courses, and the not-as-smart ones (generally) won't. (notwithstanding the ones cited in this article) So it isn't as though these AP course are necessarily causing students to score better on the SAT, the kids are already smarter to begin with.
12:19 AM on 02/21/2011
There's a difference between being smart and being prepared for a test. My kids didn't take any special prep class for their SATs. The advance nature of their course load and the effort they put into their classes were more than enough preparation for them to get high SAT scores.

Being smart is great, but being smart and a quarter won't buy you a cup of coffee. If you don't put in the study time, you're not going to get good grades. There's a reason why the smartest kids don't always make the best grades in a class. Kids who have the self discipline it takes to study will likely be very successful regardless of their undertakings.
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broui
No d#%& cat. No d#%& cradle.
05:45 PM on 02/21/2011
I have studied this issue at great length. I teach for a living. There is NO evidence that AP courses taken in high school increase the likelihood of college graduation at all, on time, a higher GPA in college, etc. There is no evidence they are of any benefit at all. None.

There is a great deal of evidence that Dual Enrollment courses, in which students take actual college courses taught by high school teachers in their high schools but for both high school and college credits, are of great benefit.

AP course are HIGHLY overrated.
11:49 AM on 02/23/2011
Some students use the credits that they have earned to free up time up for other courses and do a double major or add a minor.

My son, in 11th, LOVES the challenge of AP courses. I think it is great that high schoolers can have a course where the results are standardized, rather than teacher dependent (where they may be more subjective).
06:19 PM on 02/20/2011
In some instances, the student's paid tutors write the student's take home essays for homework. In this scenerio, the student's written skills would not be on par with the timed AP essays for the AP exams.
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LaurieAnn
Charity is NOT a substitute for justice.
05:50 PM on 02/20/2011
While I can't speak to the issues facing students at New York City's top private schools I can speak address the experiences of students attending poorly funded, overcrowded public high schools in California's San Joaquin Valley. At most of these high schools the AP classes are taught by the best qualified, most enthusiastic members of the teaching staff. While the curriculum is limited to what may be expected on the test, the quality of the teaching and the depth of the material presented often make up for what is missed. I personally encourage students to take classes taught by the best (not the easiest) teachers and most often, they are the Advanced Placement classes.
05:07 PM on 02/20/2011
The secret. It is a high average and SAT score period. Degree of difficulty of course material is a myth
yappnmutt
humping legs for liberty
03:27 PM on 02/20/2011
i would suggest that the real reason these "elite" high schools are dropping ap courses is because of the tendency of the ap courses to separate the wheat from the chaff. that has been the case in my kids' lasses where "a" students have real difficulty achieving their assumptive "a" because the rigors of the class require an actual study regimen not required in their other "teacher determined" subject matter, testing and scoring schemes that inflate grades.

ap classes are the genral study classes freshmen and sophomores have to take to get to higher level more specialized courses in the same field of study. the intensity of the study regimen is an aid to taking the sat not a hindrance as the courses serve to tune the mind.
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FiredUpRTG
Don't start no stuff; won't be no stuff…
08:16 AM on 02/20/2011
I would not apply to a college that refused to give me college credit for scoring a 4 or a 5 on an AP. When one passes an AP course, one is supposed to earn college credit, be able to skip over an introductory class in college, and therefore SAVE MONEY by graduating from college sooner or take another elective in their major, to fill that empty slot in their program, SAVING TIME.

I did that.

In this economy, with college tuitions so high, I would encourage every capable high school student to take a couple of AP courses, to save money.

There are colleges that don't use the SAT as an admission criterion, but that test is a general overview of logic skills. An AP class is advanced study of one topic.

It's illogical to have to spend $8,000 to re-take a college course that was mastered in an AP class in HS.
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Lolly
01:01 PM on 02/20/2011
Why do you think privates schools are refusing to accept AP scores? Those undergrad general ed courses are major cash cows. They get junior (read: low paid) faculty to teach them, but students pay just as much as they do for more specialized, upper division classes.

Public universities are more likely to accept AP because it saves the student and the state money.

And the argument that AP takes away from time that could be spent studying for the SAT is just weird. Really? Even the people who administer the SAT caution against giving the scores much weight in admissions, and study after study shows that the SAT is mildly accurate at predicting 1st year grades, but nothing else.
11:59 PM on 02/23/2011
Having gone to Williams - one of the schools mentioned in the article - there aren't any undergrad general ed required classes, so your argument there is moot. And some of the BEST faculty members are the ones teaching the intro classes. Additionally, having gotten 5s on all the APs I took, I can still easily say that it was not up to par with what I would have skipped over had they granted the credit - the intro classes at Williams covered far more information in more depth than the AP class and test did. However, I DID feel that taking the AP classes had me more prepared than the other students in my college classes.
07:45 AM on 02/20/2011
There's no such thing as an AP approved course. If the coursework at these elite high schools the author mentions is so demanding, then the students that aren't going to Ivy League schools and that wish to take the AP tests will still be able to take the AP test at the end of the year and should pass. My brother went to one of the best public high schools in the US. His classes were much harder than courses designed to teach for the AP tests. But I suppose that is not the case for these schools or else this wouldn't be an issue. The argument here seems to be that high school students shouldn't be pushed so hard? Why? People are never able to learn more than when they are 17-18 years old. They don't need to be coddled.
For most schools the AP exams offer good structure and the sad truth is that few teachers are qualified enough to even teach at that level and even fewer students are prepared for those classes. (Therefore I also have little respect for teachers complaining they are somehow too good to teach intro level college classes. APs are already above their pay-grade. Who do they think they are tenured professor's?)The rate of students passing the AP exam with a 3 or higher is low. Passing the AP actually does prove a lot about the preparedness of a student for college work that GPA and the SAT doesn't.
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lisakaz2
Da ministero dell'interno di Snark.
09:39 AM on 02/20/2011
AP does say something about preparedness but an AP class in high school is not exactly rocket science. They are the equivalent of introductory college classes and taught over a year, whereas in a college the material is usually covered in a semester. There are plenty of teachers who can handle and do handle AP.

The class is basic, so I'm sure some find it too structured. But to appreciate something more specialized, the basics are helpful.
03:52 AM on 02/20/2011
This is just a drive-by comment. I was in high school before there were AP tests, so I don't have a personal opinion about AP tests, or AP programs.

But I'll take with a large grain of salt the opinions of a person who makes his living selling test-tutoring services.

As it happens, I scored 800+800 on the SAT back in 1965. (I did take the test twice -- I only got one 800 in my junior year). Nineteen years later, I got 800s on all three parts of the GRE.

I mention these results not to boast, but to remark that they happened without any kind of tutoring. In fact, I did no preparation at all for the SAT, and my prep for the GRE was a couple of hours of looking at logic puzzles in their what-to-expect brochure.

Now, once upon a time, I was pretty bright, but the keys to scoring well on the SAT or GRE were simple: (1) a broad English vocabulary; (2) basic arithmetic skills; (3) critical reading ability -- that is, the ability to extract meaning from what you read; (4) deductive and inductive logic.

With the exception of (2), these are things you acquire over time, not by short-term intensive tutoring. I'd guess that the same is true of AP tests -- you have to actually understand the subject, rather than have it force-fed.

So, tutoring for AP tests is probably not a profitable enterprise. Hmmm.
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lisakaz2
Da ministero dell'interno di Snark.
09:41 AM on 02/20/2011
I'd like to see how you'd write a DBQ (Document Based Question) on an AP history exam. If you don't do certain tasks appropriately, you get a very mediocre score (maybe 3-5 on a total of 9), regardless of how smart you are and how much you know. That is a BIG hit on the score.
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Lolly
01:05 PM on 02/20/2011
You're making his/her point, not disproving it.
01:43 PM on 02/20/2011
Very true - I pre-date you a bit - similar scores - but AP was around then so I guess one could say it was around but just not in our school in 1964/65.

I agree as what is needed - English was my second language begun in earnest at age five (thank the Good Lord for spell checkers). I tested "slightly retarded" at age 8, noted that the test was all vocabulary at age 10 and began to memorize a dictionary (thank goodness there was no oral exam!). By High School I was the smartest kid and by the end of High School I was either the smartest kid in Illinois or tied as the Illinois Statewide gave the highest score in all areas (logic was never a problem - and only vocabulary directly and via killing the meaning of the logic problem ever held my scores down).

The AP system for me - and for my kids - just messed up college. Teachers would say you were exempt from part one of a course, then tell you that you could not take part two because they teach different topics in the first part so you are not prepared for the second part.

The article is spot on - let teachers teach the subject - not teach to some test.