The Swill from Bill

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Posted April 11, 2008 | 03:51 PM (EST)



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Political lies are intriguing things.

Sometimes they are just a panicky attempt to keep a floundering career afloat: I am not a crook. I did not have sex with that woman.

Sometimes they are a short-term means to a longer-term end that may or may not pan out: LBJ lying about the Gulf of Tonkin incident to get America into Vietnam, or George W. Bush lying about weapons of mass destruction to launch an Iraq invasion he figured the American public would end up applauding.

Sometimes, though, they are downright perplexing.

Bill Clinton, campaigning on behalf of his wife in Indiana on Thursday, told one whopper after another while defending Hillary's own well-publicised bunch of baloney regarding her trip to Bosnia in 1996 -- the one where she repeatedly confused being hugged by an eight-year-old girl with the terror of coming under sniper fire, then claimed the reason she muddled up the two very different experiences was because she was sleep-deprived.

Others have already deconstructed the latest swill from Bill with admirable thoroughness, but here's a few reasons why the whole thing makes no sense.

One, why bring up the Bosnia incident at all when it has been nothing but trouble for the Hillary campaign for the past three weeks?

Two, why lie so obviously about it? It would be one thing if Bill were trying to spin the facts in his wife's favor, but his little rant about everyone being out to get her was off in the realm of pure fantasy. His contention that Hillary misspoke, once, late at night? Demonstrably false. His contention that she "quickly apologized"? Demonstrably false.

For me, the most telling falsehood was one of the more seemingly innocent: placing the incident in 1995 instead of 1996. That may seem like a little thing, but in 1995 the Bosnian war was still raging, while in 1996 the country has changed from a civil war theater to an international peace-keeping theater. I was in Bosnia in 1996 and it was perfectly safe for foreign visitors, dignitaries or not.

What to make of all this? The easiest, but not necessarily most productive, reaction is moral condemnation. We can dismiss Clinton, just as Harry Truman memorably dismissed Richard Nixon, as a "no-good, lying bastard" who can lie out of both sides of his mouth at the same time even when there's no particular reason to.

That, though, doesn't get at the heart of the psychology at work here. Bill isn't just scuppering his wife's -- admittedly fast-dwindling -- chances of staying in the nomination race. He's also fouling up his own reputation and the legacy of his eight years in the White House, causing consternation not only among once-loyal Democratic supporters but also overseas, where he is still remembered fondly as that rare American president who actually understands what he is talking about and can string more than one grammatically correct sentence together at a time.

I've seen and heard any number of pop-psych explanations: that, deep down, Bill doesn't want his wife to be president, or that he is just naturally reckless, to the point of self-destruction. For me, though, the key to understanding him comes back to the Balkans in the 1990s -- not the Clintons' experiences there, but my own. It remains the part of the world where I have been lied to most often and most brazenly, by political leaders who just didn't seem to care how transparent their lies were.

The deputy prime minister of Albania once tried to argue, for example, that six thousand people swarming around the president in the main square of the capital city did not constitute a demonstration. The president was merely out taking a walk, he said with an entirely straight face, and a crowd of citizens spontaneously chose to follow him.

My conclusion then, as now, is that this was a show of power, a special kind of lying for intimidatory effect. The subtext was: I am so important that I can tell you any pile of crap I want and you'll have to show me that you accept it.

I sense a similar arrogance in Clinton now. The difference, of course, is that he is not currently in power, merely trying to reattain it, which gives his lies an additional layer of deep insecurity. The subtext I hear from him is this: I'm Bill Clinton, so you have to take whatever I tell you, and by the way you've got to vote for my wife, out of fear if not out of respect.

We started hearing that undertone to his speeches back in January, in Nevada and South Carolina, and it has become only more pronounced -- and more paranoid -- as Hillary's lock on the nomination has slowly loosened and started to slither away.

In other words, it's not that he secretly wants Hillary to fail, but rather the exactly opposite. He feels uniquely confident in his own gifts and status and simply cannot believe he can end up on the losing side. Ironically -- and sadly -- he is now as far from removed from the "reality-based community" as the Bush White House. The biggest loser in all this won't be Hillary, who has her own reasons for falling short in the nomination race, but rather Bill himself.

 
 

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I'll take a stab. Bill Clinton was quoted as saying Hillary won NH with woman when they saw the man with the sign; Iron My Shirt. Yes, according to Bill, that is what turned the tide. His Bosnia, 60, forgetful remarks again portray her as victim to her insensitive bumbling husband, ergo...the women vote. Why not? Sympathy for the "victim" works for Hillary.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:41 PM on 04/13/2008

"Beware of Wolve's in Sheeps clothing". She will tell you what pleases your ego and put her arms around your children...but see what she tried to do more than a decade ago, but was "stopped". Yes, she WILL garnish our paychecks with her Mandatory Healthcare plan. No Freedom of choice.
Just check the 1996 bill submitted to congress by Hillary Clinton and look who saved all America's butts, which includes all our children. Please begin your learning experience here:
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/discover-and-imagine-ron-paul/successfully-fought-hillarycare-lite/
And let us not forget this congressional record:
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1998/dec98/psrdec98.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:10 PM on 04/13/2008

YOU ARE RIGHT! POOR HILARY JUST A WOMAN WHO IS BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY THE MEDIA AND BY HER HUBBY AND HER PARTY THE LIST JUST KEEPS GETTING LONGER!
SHE WILL TRY TO POOR ME ALL THE WAY TO THE WHITE HOUSE! WHEN SHE ISNT TAKEN A SILENT PITTY PARTY SHE IS SLAMMING OTHER CANIDATES FOR DOING THE SAME THING SHE DOES, COOKIES AND TEA COMMENT OR THE STAND BY YOUR MAN COMMENT, I WONDER HOW MANY PA WOMAN HAVE BAKED COOKIES FOR THIER KIDS OR GRANDCHILDREN OR HAVE STOOD BY THE MAN THEY LOVE? MMM

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:02 PM on 04/13/2008

Talking about lies. Here's some sober truth for the psychObamians:
READ THE SENATE RECORD.
Kerry's Anti Iraqi War Bill
CLINTON- YEA
OBAMA-NO.
LImiting credit card rates:
CLINTON- YEA
OBAMA-NO.

Obama voted YES on President Bush's class action bill that made it harder for victims of pollution and other corporate malfeasance to be compensated. Opposed by most major civil rights and consumer watchdog groups, this Big Business-backed legislation was sold to the public as a way to stop "frivolous" lawsuits. But everyone in Washington knew the bill's real objective was to protect corporate abusers.

Obama YES on Bush's 2005 energy bill that included massive oil, coal, and nuclear subsidies,

Obama YES: to allow credit card companies to raise interest rates over 30 percent

Obama YES to confirm Condoleezza Rice as Secretary of State despite her integral role in selling the Iraq's WMD story.

Obama ENDORSED AND ACTIVELY CAMPAIGNED FOR LIEBERMAN and against stong anti-war Ned Lamont .

Progressive? Maybe in Saudi Arabia.

Obama is Wright for America. But wrong for Democrcy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:16 AM on 04/13/2008

Listen to your candidate. Ready to LIE on DAY ONE. The Clintons have enough lies to build a LIE-BRARY. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/13/tim-russert-nails-hillary_n_96419.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:54 PM on 04/13/2008

NO CANIDATE IS A ANGEL, BUT IF YOUR SLINGING DIRT HILARY WILL BE THE FIRST TO NEED A SHOWER!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:05 PM on 04/13/2008

I understand that everything Bill Clinton says is a potential story but this is getting ridiculous. I have come to realize that I am part of the problem. It came to me as I performed my daily ritual of watching, reading, and analyzing every move that hillary and Obama make. It came to me that I am fooling myself, that I haven't found a renewed interest in our country's governance but that I have let myself be taken in by the most recent form of reality entertainment. The sad part is that most of the media, most of the blogs, and most of the country is the same as me. it's no secret that Cspan does not get huge ratings as it is incredibly boring. (that is probably why all the current candidates basically ignore their current job. I guess a senator's job isn't that eventful - oh the irony). I prefer Obama but I regret that I have lost some of my zeal for the whole process as it has become more and more petty.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:49 AM on 04/13/2008

Rah, Rah obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 AM on 04/13/2008

What a sad admission to make ... "that rare American president who actually understands what he is talking about and can string more than one grammatically correct sentence together at a time ..." Do Americans really understand that their political system is seen as the brain damaged leading the brain dead.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:50 AM on 04/13/2008

Surely the problem is not what Billy Boy thinks or says, but what Hillary thinks or says.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:46 AM on 04/13/2008

The Cole remember it with the huge hole in the side and sailors dead? What did Bill Clinton do about it? The World Trade Center remember it with the little underground mess the first bombing? A trial caught a blind cleric and little else. Bin Laden remember him? He was behind 9/11 and he still walks the earth a free man. Bin Laden has a CIA folder big enough for the clinton folks to share with Bush Jr. Greenspan remember him he helped build the bubble that has been expanding before it has had a rush of air and it's called recession now. He was god and given free rein to adjust anything he wanted in the market place. NAFTA remember it? Still taking the jobs away from Americans and it shows no sign of stopping our country from potential total loss. Clinton signed it and Hillary was it's cheerleader until her presidential run. The dot coms made the country jobs and the investors and builders of the web lots of money before they crashed. The ninties brought with them the many adventures of the clintons with Ken Starr looking into everything but toilet paper use. The clintons hide things well. When Bill C left office he pardoned many who he has since worked with and many who were owed favors along the way. Many of these who never really pardoned because they deserved it but for favors. Lies and hidden agendas behind actions are the clintons.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:12 PM on 04/12/2008

I have watched Bill successfully lie since the first time I watched him speak in 1992. "Successfully" means there was no serious challenge from the media.

You know that if Hillary was running against anyone else, the Clintons would do their usual dirty tricks and Hillary would probably have been hailed a champion of the people (by the very same noble people who now support Obama) as she won the presidency - all without a critical word from the media.

What is so scary is that no one understands Democratic primary voters better than the Clintons, and the Clintons depending on the closet racism of Democratic primary voters.

On a related note, I have analyzed why Democrats lose at this link:
http://www.leeroyfdermit.com/2008/03/how-could-democrats-ever-lose.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:44 PM on 04/12/2008

I was one of those avid Clinton supporters during his Impeachment, defending him at every turn, but when Bush cozied up to pappy Bush, that was the last straw (I was not even phased by, and probably defended, his pardons).

It might have taken me a while, but I have no regrets. Bill Clinton is an embarrassment. Bill Clinton's tirades are actually a good thing, as they only doom him and his wife to the ignominy they deserve. Every time he sold out the left, i thought it was about pragmatic governance, or compromise, but it was probably more his lack of principle or just wanting to play ball and be a part of the Establishment. Oh, and let's not forget make millions after leaving office. I guess it worked out pretty good for them, not so good for us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:56 PM on 04/12/2008

I think he's old and in ill health. He is just not up to this anymore. Bill, retire.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 04/12/2008

When in doubt go for the age joke. Brilliant!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:32 PM on 04/12/2008

I have a theory. Bill was rumored to be doing cocaine back when he was governor of Arkansas. When he was voted out of office after one term, he supposedly went around stopping people in public asking why they didn't vote for him. Looking at his eyes now strikes me as there's something different about him now. Could be he's back on the blow. His current behavior seems irrational and that could be attributed to drug abuse. Beyond that, Bill never saw a lie he wouldn't tell while he was prez, so why would he stop now? Between he and she, the truth is a option and not a requirement. Of course Obama can say in 20 years he didn't hear any weird sermons. Or he did. Or why don't I give a speech about it? But at the end of the day, politicians lie. Period. Ask McCain. (Unless you don't want him calling you a c*nt.)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:47 AM on 04/12/2008

Mr. Psychoanalyst:

Please focus on the scandals from which Bill is so desperately trying to divert your attention.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:11 AM on 04/12/2008

You attribute Bill Clinton's nonsense to your being lied to in the Balkans? Are you kidding?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:28 AM on 04/12/2008

Bill would be a loose canon in a THIRD CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. A cronies delight.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:00 AM on 04/12/2008

You guys crack me up. Where were you for 8 years while conservatives shouted this to the rooftops? Oh, I know, you were too busy saying "Everyone does it", and "It's just about sex"............And what's worse, the very environment you helped the Clintons create now allows them to terrorize your latest flavor of the month, Obama. How does that cozy bed feel, libs?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:02 AM on 04/12/2008

readytsf, you are not breaking any news to me. I disliked Clinton when he was in office, and I was angry at the Democratic Party for cramming him down our throats. I am a lifelong Dem and I completely agree with you--Clinton is part of the problem, has helped create the current crisis, and has been a loser and a liar from the start. All the more reason for me to support Obama--he is the first Dem leader since the 1960s to embody what he talks about, and to call upon Americans to express their best instincts, for justice and good will and rational judgment, for high moral standards and less emphasis on acquisition and showing off. The real reason so many conservatives are voting for Obama is not hatred for McCain, it's because he does, in fact, represent good values that any real Christian, conservative, OR liberal can appreciate. His message is humanitarian and sensible, and that is why he is so different from the last three decades of so-called leadership.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:53 PM on 04/12/2008

To readytsf: My bed feels cozy & comfy. I mean-no worries about W's place in history, no fundie sexual hang-ups, no guilt for pimping W, no worries if my paymaster will pay me if HP doesn't use this comment. The furure looks great; Prez Obama will be in the White House on the afternoon of 1/20/09. Have you got your comments ready for when W & Co are given fair trials in US courts, found guilty of treason, sentenced to death & are executed or are you waiting for indictments when the evidence is presented to a grand jury? The investigations are going to be a piece of cake. So much of the evidence against W & Co are a matter of public record. Don't worry about it if you get questioned; your paymaster will hire a lawyer for you or some neo-con lawyer will advise you pro bono. We progressives will have the ACLU, Amnesty, etc raise unshirted hell if somebody even mentions putting fundie, neo con trolls in custody at the Holiday Inn. You won't be sent to Gitmo, any off shore CIA prison or be rendered any place. Progressives support your right to free speech.
Sleep well.
larry lynch

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 04/12/2008

Run Hillary Run..................LOLOL

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:39 PM on 04/12/2008

Sinbad (before Obama): the situation in Bosnia as "so tense. It was Crips and Bloods."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:31 AM on 04/12/2008

Sinbad didn't say that about landing in Bosnia that Hillary was lying about, he said that about the situation in Bosnia...there's a big big difference.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:16 PM on 04/12/2008

Maybe Bill is drawing attention to Tuzla so people will stop talking about his Columbian connection.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:02 AM on 04/12/2008

Maybe Prince Obama's real subtext is-I am lord Prince Obama-I walk on Water-I am neither White nor Black nor Racist nor Moslem nor Senator nor Politician. I am the Be All to End All. Vote for Me and you will Vote for Perfection! *Flashes cheesy grin w/ Mikey Mouse ears*

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:04 AM on 04/12/2008

Maybe you're not helping to further any real debate. Maybe, Grulg, you're being sarcastic. To what end? How does this help anything?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 AM on 04/13/2008

This is EXACTLY what I think he's trying to do... change the focus - that's his MO and his Columbian connections are MUCH worse than anything Hillary has lied about.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:30 AM on 04/12/2008

Is that why he called Senator Obama, 'a car thief'?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:56 AM on 04/12/2008


Yeah, it's funny about subtext. After Obama called small town Pennsylvanians gun-toting, God-loving, xenophobes who vote on issues like gay marraige, I sort of feel the subtext of a lot of his speeches is:

"If you don't vote for me you hate Black people."

And while you're on the subject of subtext, what's your take on this Michelle Obama comment:

Michelle Obama had this to say about her husband"s pursuit of the nomination: "[I]n this ever-shifting, moving bar, Barack Obama will always be the underdog. No matter how much money he raises, no matter how many wins he pulls together, no matter how many delegates he accumulates; he is still the underdog. It"s the way it works."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/04/teresa_welcomes.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:34 AM on 04/12/2008

Susan1968: Do not project what you think is the "subtext" of Obama's initial comments. This has nothing to do with race anyway. He was talking about the effect of Washington's horrible trade policies , tax policies, etc., on working people of all colors in places like OH and PA. My guess, though, is that you know what he was trying to say, and, like Hillary, you're acting like Obama said something he didn't. BTW, some of the biggest damage in terms of trade came to us thanks to Bill AND Hillary, things like NAFTA, GATT and WTO. It is THEY who are the real elitists. They despise these pesky grass-roots with their liberal ways. They don't mind sucking up to corporate Fat Cats for most of their money. Grass-roots are rabble to them; they feel more at home with Murdoch than Dean. Obama's point, while it could've been better worded, was the truth. The reason people no longer vote their pocketbooks as much as they might is that they've rightly concluded that it doesn't matter. So, instead, they're drawn to the polls to stop the Gays from getting married and, while they're there they vote for the Republican who will do even more harm to the middle- and working-classes - especially in the "Rust Belt." This "gotcha" BS has got to stop.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:21 AM on 04/13/2008

First of all, what Obama said about small town Pennsylvanians is accurate. I have spent a great deal of time in PA as I onced worked for a company based in PA. PA and Ohio are cultural dopplegangers, the same goes for small town Ohio. If you need further proof, read a great article in The Nation called "Postcards From Ohio".

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080317/wypijewski

Obama is not saying what you accuse him of, he's just saying that politicians have been using wedge issues like God, Guns and Gays and Race to sucker people into voting against their best interests. And he's right. Every national election cycle some GOPer puts a law banning choice or rights for homosexuals on the ballot here in Ohio. They do the same in PA and every other struggling area to whip up hate so they can stay in power. To ignore this fact and accuse Obama of race-baiting is completely disengenuous.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:27 PM on 04/12/2008

Do you hate black people?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:09 AM on 04/12/2008

Susan, I see your posts every day and it is so apparent you absolutely HATE Obama; I don't know if it is out of ignorance or if it is just that you don't like his personality. If you just hate him because of who you "think" he is, that is a question of personality. But you truly don't have your facts straight. But if you will take the time to look at what Obama said about PA, God and guns, then maybe you will learn something of truth. And if you can tell me how you can continue to support HRC who did, in fact, LIE about Bosnia, Irish peace, SCHIP, Family Leave and NAFTA, then I will listen and try to understand. But right now I don't understand how anyone can support someone who has LIED repeatedly. I need someone (and I hope you will be the one) who can explain to me how anyone can support a person who lied. Also, I want to know how HRC can say she has 35 years experience. From when to when and what to what equated those 35 years? She has never been clear on those 35 years and I need someone to tell me when and what they are. Can you please tell me so I can understand? Thank you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8dRMofHNs&eurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/11/clinton-mccain-respond-to_n_96318.html

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:23 AM on 04/12/2008

But did Hillary and Bill lie repeatedly is the question? Did Barack and Michelle tell the trurh? Speak to that and not take inane grasps at straws for your candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:40 AM on 04/12/2008

Illogical innuendo, and off topic.

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