It's Not OK, Seth Rogen
In Asher Roth's hit single "I Love College", the 24 year-old rapper warns "Don't leave the house 'til the booze is gone/ And don't have sex if she's too gone ". Let's talk about alcoholism some other time. I found myself listening to this song approvingly the other day, and then felt like Tipper Gore. Forgetting, for just a few seconds, my ardent support for free speech, I thought how great it would be if college men were only allowed to listen to this song, and forbidden to see Observe and Report, the new movie starring Seth Rogen, until they were fathers of small daughters.
I had a massive crush on Seth Rogen until two weeks ago. I'm one of the only girls I know who thought Superbad was heartwarming. I urged random people I met at parties to give him my number. (I forgot about the girlfriend.) I envisioned a lifetime of happiness in which he took massive hits from a bong before joining me for long jogs on the beach. But my love evaporated when I read a quote from a promotional interview for his new film, Observe and Report, in which he defends the most controversial scene in the movie, where his character, an idiot with a bullying problem, has sex with a passed-out woman played by Anna Faris. He told the Washington City Paper, "You can literally feel the audience thinking, like, how the (expletive) are they going to make this OK? Like what can possibly be said or done that I'm not going to walk out of the movie theater in the next 30 seconds? And then she says, like the one thing that makes it all OK." The one thing, it seems, that would make this OK, is for the quasi-conscious woman to command "Did I tell you to stop, motherf-----?"
Courtney E. Martin got it right over at feministing.com when she wrote that "I think about all the women I know who have been raped, sitting in the theater, thinking they are getting a funny little respite from their serious lives, only to see an experience they've had depicted as a big joke...will be traumatized."
Because it's not OK. And I'll tell you why. It's not OK because girls are date raped at frat parties across the country every weekend, and people, from college counselors to Camille Paglia, still tell them they were asking for it. It's not OK because 25-year old women wake up and don't remember how they got home the night before, and they are convinced it's their own fault. It's not OK because according to a 2006 survey, 29 percent of young women who had been in a relationship said they had been pressured to have sex or to engage in sexual activity they did not want. It's not OK because Afghanistan just almost passed a law saying men could rape their wives, and we didn't all immediately take to the streets. It's not OK because as murder-suicides increase by the week, the first victims are always wives. And it's just not OK.
So right now Seth Rogen's on my bad side, even though I've loved him since Freaks and Geeks. But I like this Asher Roth guy. Because somehow I think, I hope, that some night soon, late at a frat party, it will run through some dumb drunk kid's head that you can't "have sex when she's too gone."
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that's very disappointing.
Yes, the film is not a PSA, but film makers do have some responsibility for what they show on the silver screen. We can think of Kubrick pulling A Clockwork Orange from theaters due to those impressionable viewers who copied the violent acts in the film. Those behind this film have acknowledged how problematic this scene is, but they put a so-called band-aid on it by having the woman tell Rogen's character to keep on going. Ah, don't we all feel much better about a man with mental issues date raping a drunk woman? Why don't we say, as would Paglia, that the woman probably deserved it because men are horny creatures who cannot control their hormones and that the woman shouldn't have had that much to drink and allow a man to take advantage of her, that she put herself in that situation?
When will the jokes about date rape cease? What does this scene say about a man who does not care if he has a woman's consent or not, that he is more than happy to have sex with an unresponsive date? Why not screw a hole in the ground or a blow-up doll for that matter?
Thank you, Ms. Wainwright. I've never gotten in the first place what people see in Rogen and his movies.
Uhm, I think the point of the movie is entertainment, not a PSA. Date rape, rufies, and sexual assault were alive and well on college campuses before this movie and will be after. Kids still die of alcohol poisoning from hazing and kids still cram on balconies that can't support them, even though there have been plenty of news stories and 20/20 eps. To single out a scene in a movie that is a comedy is asinine. I don't look to Seth Rogan to learn proper behavoir; that is what parents are for.
1. It's just a movie.
2. Did Seth Rogen write the movie? Why blame him?
3. It's just a movie.
4. Are you also mad at Anna Faris? Her character was the one who made it OK.
5. It's just a movie.
6. People have had arguments like these for over a century, since the first politically correct humorless jerks were offended by the first movies. "Mel, is it OK if I flay Christ, too? But it was in your movie, so I assumed it was a good thing to do. Aren't all the cool kids crucifying prophets?"
7. IT'S JUST A MOVIE!
#4 is sort of an interesting question.
ok there's dark comedies everywhere that are bound to offend different groups. go see happiness (much, much worse) or election (pretty terrible) and get really offended.
You misinterpret the artistic intent of that scene not to mention the entire movie. The Mall was an allegory for the World and mallcop Ronnie (Seth Rogen) symbolizes the United States. The USA as self-delusional World Supercop. Ronnie is clearly a crazed psychopath who believes himself to be heroic and forthright in all his endeavors. The movie satirizes the archetype of American Blue-Collar Machismo who proliferates such fare as Indiana Jones films (the chicks dig him, the natives get beat up by him, Providence always works its mojo to save him).
In other words dudes who live by the example of Hollywood movie heroes are psycho jerks.
I think you are giving Judd Apatow and Seth Rogan waaaaay to much credit. They're just working stiffs like the rest of us trying to make a buck, and too often they go too far with their brand of sexist "humor". This crosses all the lines.
Not to sway off topic, but Apatow didn't have anything to do with "Observe and Report." Amazing, since it's pretty much turned into the Judd & Seth Show these last few years. Not that I mind, but I digress.
"Observe and Report" is a black comedy "Taxi Driver," and in the same way you'd accuse anyone who looked up to Travis Bickle as a role model of being borderline dangerous, anyone who sees to Ronnie Barnhardt as a model of healthy behavior needs to have a good long talk with someone that can help them put things in perspective.
As superlive says, "[D]udes who live by the example of Hollywood movie heroes are psycho jerks."
I used to like watching Hogan's Heros on Nick at Nite.... does that make me a nazi supporter?
I do not get the "appeal" of Seth Rogen just like I do not get it for Jack Black or Will Ferrell. I think Seth is overhyped just like the other/similar actors. Due to the hype, he has a following and plenty of fans that will copy his every move. The film industry and those that are part of it are often too quick to dismiss responsibility by saying that it is for the sake of art but, let's face it, a movie with the same silly formula over and over again is as much art as a paint by the numbers kit. Seth cannot jump on the art bandwagon to justify his position (with all due respect to the notion that art is subjective) and needs to either defend the scene (which is unrealistic) or apologize for it.
Well said, I couldn't agree more.
Ha! Asher Roth is on your good side? Think about what he is saying, his song lyrics state:
...Yeah, of course I learned some rules
Like don't pass out with your shoes on
And don't leave the house 'til the booze gone
And don't have sex if she's too gone
When it comes to condoms put two on...
First of all, since when has it been a good idea to wear two condoms? As recommended by the Durex Condom company, it is NOT recommended to wear two condoms at any time because an excessive amount of friction will occur between the two condoms and increase the likelihood of either, or both, condoms breaking. When worn correctly, one condom is adequate (88%-98% effective) for pregnancy prevention and for protection against some STDs such as HIV/AIDS.
Good one Asher...
Second of all, since these are lessons that he has learned so far, it could be inferred that he HAS had sex with a girl who was too drunk. Just a wild speculation though, although I wouldn't put it past him, he is pretty skeezy.
In any case, I agree with your points about media portrayal of rape, but please, DO NOT look to Asher Roth as a shining example of how dumb frat guys are supposed to behave.
Somehow I get the feeling that the person who wrote this isn't very funny. Especially considering their enjoyment of Asher Roth's unlistenably awful music.
The movie was very funny BTW. And the scene in question got huge laughs both times when I saw it at the theatre.
Thank you, thank you, thank you
there are certain situations when "too gone" sex is okay, however. those would involve prior consent and would occur in long-standing, trusting relationships, with problem drinkers. that being said, I haven't seen the movie and cannot comment on the scene you refer too. however, i will say that the filmakers are free to say whatever they want. there is nothing to prevent them from espousing a view even promoting date rape. you are free of course to push back and no longer crush on Rogen. i bet there's hair in his weed, anyway. dude's hairy, zallimsaying.
I don't think there is any question here about freedom of speech. You're right: filmmakers can and have said whatever they want about any number of subjects over the years. What the author seems to be asking these filmmakers to do is understand the immense weight they hold with the millions of teenagers and college kids who will watch this film; and to consider whether such a gross violation of someone's rights is okay simply because the woman involved comes to and seems to like it after the fact. In the end: say what you want, but take responsibility for it.
What would "taking responsibility for it" look like? Doing a campus tour to tell the frat boys, "come one fellas, you know better than this." ? Movies containing a scene in which a machismo heel takes liberties with a comatose drunk do not cause date rape. Kids raised by absent, permissive, ignorant parents, who provided no guidance and let the schools and tv raise their kids without consequences but with low expectations and will-crushing marketing, respectively will fall in to the patterns of the worst among them, if the worst among them lead the herd. Our awesome capitalist system needs to keep us uninformed herd animals. As parents, for three generations or more, we've sat back and let them do it to us, as if we were passed out drunk while being raped, waking up only when the reaming stops to say, "who told you to stop, mf'r."
For what it's worth, the rest of the movie is not even worth seeing even WITHOUT that scene!
This is exactly what needs to be said. Well done!
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