Biden and Clinton Shine at Debate
Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton shined in the presidential debate on Thursday night, as the leading Democratic candidates traded their sharpest barbs to date.
Biden outlined the most specific foreign policy agenda, advocating a reduction of Pakistan's military funding to force fair elections, and a new focus on eliciting support of the Pakistani middle class to counter militant extremism. He declared that he was the only candidate "on stage" to offer a regional plan since President Musharraf declared martial law, referring to a New Hampshire address last week, and stressed that unlike Obama and Clinton, he had actually voted to cut funding for the controversial Guantanamo prison. Then Biden, who chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, showed voters his commitment to confront the Bush Doctrine, recounting how he "personally" warned the President that an attack on Iran without congressional authorization would lead to impeachment.
Clinton, who had struggled to counter some attacks in the last debate, held strong the entire evening. She assailed Obama for failing to "step up" on universal health care and challenged Edwards' record on the issue from the 2004 Campaign. Then, casting herself as the true Democratic fighter in the ring, Clinton chided Edwards for adopting mud-slinging tactics "right out of the Republican playbook." It worked. Obama was overshadowed for much of the debate, only finding his voice near the end while discussing Iran and habeas corpus. Edwards' arguments showed some strain under pressure. He questioned Clinton's honesty and record as a "Corporate Democrat," but then assured the audience that his criticisms were not "personal."
Given Obama's sluggish performance, it's striking to see that he actually spoke more than any other candidate (18 minutes). This was the kind of performance that might give a campaign manager heartburn: a speaker who sounds worse in a small field, when the audience hears extended remarks. Yet CNN was still touting an "Obama-Clinton Slugfest" when the debate ended, and the emerging conventional wisdom, as Chuck Todd explains, is that Thursday night "will be known as the debate that seemed to sharpen the contrast between Clinton and Obama and create a gap between the big two and everyone else."
The gap for the "big two" is nothing new, of course, and it has little to do with debate performances. It's based on celebrity, fundraising and media attention, which reinforce each other in an autocatalytic political process that has left serious and more seasoned candidates in the dust. The media may be so beholden to this story about "the big two" -- remember when it was three? -- that what candidates actually do at debates will not be allowed to get in the way. But for voters who actually listened on Thursday, Joe Biden offered a bold and specific alternative foreign policy for the United States.
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I'm a proud supporter of Joe Biden, have been from the beginning. His foreign policy experience makes me feel safe and I appreciate his straight talk, no nonsense answers to questions. I am so sick and tired of the polls and the media making it seem like Clinton, Obama and Edwards are our only choices. They are not, but those of us for other candidates have got to start making some more noise.
The thing that bothered me most about the debate was the group of 29 "swing" voters interviewed afterward. They agreed Hillary won the debate because of the way she composed herself under attack.
What!? Composure was their most important concern? Shouldn't her plans for our country and our futures (based on her responses) be a just a little more important?
Bush has composed himself well for 6 years, but it doesn't mean he's a great leader.
Also, I think we are getting a taste of how democrats have perfected the politics of personal destruction as we watch them mud-sling one another's character. They are the masters.
As someone who is hyper aware that CNN is, for the most part, to Journalism what painting by numbers is to Art, I give them a lot of credit for having run a surprisingly intelligent debate.
Much better than the MSNBC/GE's previous effort..wi
And after 2 weeks leading to it, where Chris Mathews was Egging, egging, Obama on to try
to knock Hillary down, Obama decided to drop the premise under which he had received the support of the Intelligent and informed and used fRANK lunz dishonest cheap shots to try to knock her down.
Edwards did the same but worse, (Not sure if their operatives actually paid the Psychologically Abusive Frank Lunz or just read his book -- "It's not what you say but what People hear"..Whi
GE's/Cris Mathews/MSNBC ERRONEOUS attacks on Hillary continued post that last debate. For 2 weeks (every night)...r
But what was most remarkable, until last night, was the CASCADE OF ERRONEOUSness the electorate had to endure from the dirty mouths of the Republican controlled talking Heads.
Hillary was good last night because she is good. A good human being who is smart, and DOES NUANCE...v
Dodd, like Biden, was good too. Now we need some countering of the Republican controlled c conversati
Biden is the MAN! Obama, a good man, but geez make your point and quit being so obsequious.
He thanked a woman from the audience for her life's work in food service --she's a cashier at a casino. C'mon!
Clinton appears to have more balls (strength,dare) than Obama, but too many people don't like her. BIDEN!
A Biden/Edwards Biden/Obama ticket would kick ass. If there was more outrage by the electorate, any one up there should beat one of
that quarter-wit Decider's fiascollaborators!
Biden did an excellent job in not only getting his message across in the limited time he was given, but in also shutting down CNN's attempt at trying to stoke the Clinton/Ob
Though I thought it was kind of funny that CNN didn't have one of those applause-o-meter's at the beginning of the debate while each of the candidates were announced.
Wow, looking at some of these comments I can't help but think how insanely dumed down we all have become. Listen to politicians in Europe. Through comparison, you will see how spoken down to we all are.
It's painful to watch the 30 second sound bite over and over.
These candidates need to have an hour of airtime to present a lecture on their vision for the American future. I want to see what kind of depth they have. There is no way, in this type of verbal mud slinging forum, we will be able to determine that.
Actually Hillary needs Obama. Compared to him she appears Presidential and substantive.
Looking forward: Once the nominee is determined we should all remember to let it all go and desperately campaign for that candidate!
So far all candidates have mostly refrained from serious bickering. Thats good.
This helps the national image of Democratic party.
Almost every national election in recent history has been decided by sub-urban ( mostly)white vote.
Reagan and Clinton certainly got most of that vote and so did Bush in 2004.
Obama, a choice of 20-somethings and the rich, is the only Dem candidate that has NO chance to capture sub-urban vote demographic: black, white or brown.
Certainly, the mass media likes him because he helps to sell ad space to demographically desirable niche.
But he's a nice guy who talks a nice game, but essentially is an empty suit. I think most people come to realize this already.
Joe Biden has been impressive in the last two debates and is the only candidate I can envision stepping into the job of President without on-the-job training. We have no time for that.
While Hilary presents well, I do not agree with some of her past actions and preferred policies. Keep the Social Security Tax capped at $99,000? Uh, uh.
Now if we could only get Biden to stop soundling like he's furious with all of us for not knowing how smart he is and all that he's done. You have to give the Clinton's and Obama this. They know HOW to showcase themselves by using language well and coming across as having a small thread of modesty. Kucinich, Biden and Richardson are terrible at it. But add Biden's seeming hostility at our slowness to get him, and that's one main way he hurts himself.
Can't he sound serious without sounding so angry at us all?
I am a Biden fan and contributor to his campaign. It is obvious to me that he has the brains and guts to be a great President. His experience and knowledged leave all of the Presidential candidates in the dust. That includes the other party too.
He would demolish any of the Repubs in a debate. None of them could hold a candle to him.
I sure hope the people of Iowa and NH are watching. He knows what he is about.
Kad 7, I have been a Biden supporter for all of those reasons and for the life of me can not understand why Hill is considered a front runner--look she had her run with the Big Dog for eight years-- enough for anyone.
kucinich was the best in the debate. I'm sick of you people never giving him the time of the day. He is the most able and the least corrupt person running.
Clinton is the real new look democrat that is: Support the patriot act, work with right wing thugs to pass a law against flag burning, vote for war against Iraq, blame the Iraqis for the disaster she promoted, work with Dick Cheney, Kyle and Lieberman to promote war with Iran, take millions from corporate lobbyists and continue supporting the loss of american jobs. She is a great democrat.
I was curious whether Biden and Clinton pressed their impressive record of siding with credit card companies, insurance companies,defense contractors, israel and other big money interests? It is funny how they both are big about standing up to Bush now. Where were they when it mattered? Just asking.
After the first half of the debate, the Talk Clock was looking almost fair, but then after Joe Biden had taught Wolf Blitzer more than his brain could handle, he quit calling on the guy. But you're right, with only 10 minutes, he still was more worth listening to than Clinton with her 16 minutes and WAY beyond Obama's 18. "Gasbag" no more, Biden is packing quite a bang for the buck.
I mean, when other world leaders are already calling him -- not Bush, not Clinton, not even Carter -- when their countries are in chaos, how can we NOT think of this guy for the presidency?
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