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Ari Melber

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Do Liberals Support Obama's Kill List?

Posted: 06/20/2012 9:56 am

President Obama is wielding several security powers that have been historically controversial among Democrats, from indefinitely detaining Guantánamo prisoners to shutting down torture lawsuits as “state secrets” that cannot be addressed in court. There has not been a major Democratic backlash, but all the recent attention on Obama’s “kill list” -- a set of targets that has included American citizens as young as 16 years old -- seemed like an opening for a new chapter in challenging the administration’s security policies.

For starters, the kill list is just different. Many divisive security measures linked to the Bush administration have been inherently convoluted -- Obama’s team had to clean up a mess while developing new policies on the fly. For example, take the Bush-era detainees. Some are difficult to convict in civilian courts because the evidence against them was gathered through torture. Obama supporters understand that the administration’s options are more limited on this score, a predicament Daniel Klaidman stresses in his new chronicle of Obama’s terror policies, Kill or Capture.

The drone program, however, goes far beyond what Bush ever did. It was not required by the past. And it sets a stunning precedent for the future.

Essentially, the program kills people chosen through a secret government process, including Americans and individuals selected merely for being near other targets, with no due process or publicly asserted legal authority.

Yet so far, most elected Democrats, liberal interest groups and progressive commentators have almost entirely avoided the issue. (There are some notable exceptions: the ACLU, Glenn Greenwald, Katrina vanden Heuvel, Jeremy Scahill, Eliot Spitzer, the blog FireDogLake, Democracy Now! and editorials by the New York Times and The Nation.) In the Senate, foreign policy–minded Democrats have focused more on criticizing the leak of the program than its content. In the House, 26 members did write a letter questioning the program. (It was led by Congressmen Kucinich and Conyers, longtime proponents of executive power oversight, and joined by two outlier Republicans, Ron Paul and Walter Jones.) The protests in the House don't have much of an outside game to fortify their effort: Most liberal groups are taking a pass during this election year. To pick one example, MoveOn.org, which is still pushing to close Guantánamo Bay in the Obama era, has not touched the kill list. People who oppose detention without trial, of course, usually oppose execution without trial.

Meanwhile, a few grassroots activists are making some noise. On the official White House website, activists recently used the “We The People” petition portal to tweak the drone program.

“Considering that the government already has a ‘Do Not Call’ list and a ‘No Fly’ list, we hereby request that the White House create a ‘Do Not Kill’ list in which American citizens can sign up to avoid being put on the president’s ‘kill list,’” explains the petition, “and therefore avoid being executed without indictment, judge, jury, trial or due process of law.”

The effort has drawn about 5,000 supporters. But it needs 20,000 more by June 29, in order to qualify for an official response from the White House.

The petition may sound like little more than a wry sideshow, but in the past, this administration’s avenues for online interaction have propelled neglected human rights issues into the conversation. When Obama was first elected, over 75,000 people voted for a question on his transition website asking whether torture allegations would be investigated or prosecuted. The administration initially dodged it, even though it was the most popular query, which sparked more interest in the topic. ABC’s George Stephanopoulis cited the popular question in an interview with Obama himself, thrusting a largely taboo issue into the national debate.

At the time, the grassroots interest in torture accountability seemed like it might reflect a new, digitally savvy human rights constituency. Now that Obama is the one testing the same human rights principles, however, the grassroots outrage is harder to find.

Michael Crowley, a reliably measured senior correspondent for Time, sums up the pushback to the kill list as a demonstration of “dismay from some usual suspects on the left, but little outrage overall.” The silence is striking, Crowley writes, because “not only is Barack Obama asserting extraordinary executive power in ways that would have made Bush-era Democrats howl,” but he is “overseeing a very strange transformation” of the presidency into an “executioner-in-chief.” It may be the strangest byproduct of Barack Obama’s high personal appeal -- he can legitimize extraordinary new powers without a debate, let alone an outcry.

Ari Melber writes for The Nation, where this was first published. He is on Tumblr and Twitter.

 
 
 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mappy3
Dog loving, political junkie.
10:32 PM on 06/20/2012
Super post. Hope the conservative author read it.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Querent
I say the things that have to be said.
07:13 PM on 06/20/2012
Short answer: no.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
06:10 PM on 06/20/2012
Identifying myself as a lib... In war, civilians get hit worse than armies. We destroyed Hiroshima, having no military presence, or use. Civilians was what it had. Nagasaki, Dresden, on and on. We've intentionally killed non-combatants by the 100,000's to be able to win wars.

Yet If we capture a criminal obviously guilty of the most heinous crimes, he is accorded every kind of chance to defend himself, have free lawyers, delay punishment almost indefinitely. Like Anthony Sowel here in Cleveland. Raped, tortured and killed 11 women and attacked many more. Who frankly ought to have been someone killed instead of captured.

If it is possible to identify combatants who are at the same time effectively international criminals, holed up in lawless regions, accessible only by drone, why not attack them that way? The American citizen part is the rare instance when someone born here goes over to the other side. He gets attacked along with the rest. It is in fact not legal to capture a bona fide combatant and try him for being one. We are obliged to hold him as a "POW" indefinitely. A built-in quandary in the Geneva Convention, based on assumptions no longer valid.

The concern should be the collateral damage, and outright mistakes. The alternative is to not pursue the action at all. I say, chilling as the concept of a "kill list" is, it is better than the two alternatives: carpet bombing, or do nothing.
jhNY
Mercy.
07:10 PM on 06/20/2012
The accused cannot be the condemned under any sort of application of justice without a guilty finding.
12:04 PM on 06/21/2012
The accused are routinely condemned without a guilty finding. Take for instance a person who is accused of selling cocaine. He/she will be arrested and freed only if they can make bond. They are already on the path of having their liberties impinged without even seeing a judge. If they make bail there are conditions. Mandatory drug testing (which you have to pay for) and having to abstain from alcohol, a legal substance are almost always a condition. Many court dates will follow that are always Monday through Friday 9-5 so that you have to miss work and have an understanding boss to be able to comply. Drug and alcohol evaluations (which you also have to pay for) follow. If you can afford an attorney you are going to have to hire one. Very expensive. Your proceedings often take 9 months to a year and if it goes to trial your legal expenses just went way up. Then your found not guilty and the judge tells you your free to go. 60k down the tubes in legal entanglements but your free to go. And you know what? Your just happy to be free once again. There is no recovery for your lost money or your freedom so you been punished for a crime you did not commit and were punished BEFORE the even getting to a trial

And for those who can't make bail. They sit in jail for up to a year while the charade plays out.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
robinchicago
04:43 PM on 06/20/2012
No! ...... this LIBERAL does not support the kill list, or NDAA, or the perpetuation of the Patriot Act.
Goaheadmakemyday
Tennessee tuxedo will not fail
04:12 PM on 06/20/2012
This would be a huge story with the NY Times Boston Globe, NBC, ABC, CBS, Time Newsweek, CNN, the HP, NPR if say Bush was President. Obama, nothing to see here folks move along.
JNarragansett
Check your premises
04:04 PM on 06/20/2012
Q: The president is claiming that anyone killed in a strike on a suspected target is automatically considered an enemy combatant unless proven otherwise post-mortem, is this a policy you can support?

A: That depends, is the president a Republican or a Democrat?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Roosevelt Democrat
02:50 PM on 06/20/2012
Other than social issues what the difference between Neo/Con Republicans and Clinton Democrats?

Their Foreign policy, their trade policy, their Wall Street policy seem very close!

Just an observation.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
06:22 PM on 06/20/2012
In the late 1990's both parties agreed on changing financial regulation in ways that played out disastrously. It was impossible to predict, back then, what would happen in derivatives and bond markets. "Clinton Democrats" implies a pre enlightenment mindset that is gone.

Whereas Obama himself was originally beholden to certain CEO's and upper management of the banking industry to get himself immediately up to speed in a crisis, and subsequently gave the industry itself a lot of slack, the banks have shut down their support of him now. Their money goes to Romney, for obvious reasons. He is one of them with a vengeance. They are massively in bed with Republicans now to get themselves the best deal. Truly, money never sleeps. Neither does it have allegiance.
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AlfredE69
Liberty Lovin' Tree Hugger
08:53 PM on 06/20/2012
and a very good one!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
bbarnezz
Round up the usual suspects
02:24 PM on 06/20/2012
This is where the doctrine of American Exceptionalism leads. Once we accept that we can do no wrong because we are the good guys, anything is possible. We torture, we imprison without due process, we suspend habeas corpus, we assassinate, we wiretap, we ignore our violations of international law, we attack countries who have not attacked us, we prosecute whistleblowers who reveal our misdeeds, we sabotage, we cyberattack.

If any of these acts were committed against us, we would be highly reactive, yet we meekly allow our government to do all this and more under the guise of "protecting" us. This should not be an issue for the right or the left to argue over. If any of us care about living under the rule of law and the bill of rights, we should all be protesting. It is another question entirely whether that would do any good.
01:05 PM on 06/20/2012
Do liberals....

as a LIBERAL, I am glad that the president both takes responsibility for the use of deadly force and uses a consistent, rational process to determine when to use deadly force.

Perhaps the real issue is with the common definition of liberal. Most "liberals" I know understand that force is sometimes necessary in the real world. Most "liberals" I know appreciate that someone is finally utilizing a rational process for determining the use of force. Most "liberals" I know value that someone is also taking responsibility for the use of force.
02:58 PM on 06/20/2012
How do you know there is a "consistent, rational process," since it is a secret?
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rich07
High Hopes Indeed...
03:27 PM on 06/20/2012
That is what I was thinking!
07:47 PM on 06/20/2012
Really....with as much disclosure this process has had....

wait....how are you an INTJ....recognition of facts, evaluating situations are markers of an INTJ.....perhaps you need to take the test again
03:14 PM on 06/20/2012
Don't speak for me. I believe Obama has exceeded his constitutional "war" powers, and congress is falling down on their job. Again.
07:44 PM on 06/20/2012
Sadly, you are the type of liberal that the GoP uses against America

please...try practicing reading comprehension for once....

My statement "Most "liberals" I KNOW ...." (emphasis added) clearly limits the statements I make to those I know
12:56 PM on 06/20/2012
Kill the enemy. What's wrong with that?
03:24 PM on 06/20/2012
How about kill everybody in the general proximity of the enemy?
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rich07
High Hopes Indeed...
03:27 PM on 06/20/2012
Define the "enemy".
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
06:40 PM on 06/20/2012
That is actually the very crux of the question. It would behoove our constitutional process to have some sort of declaration, of war equivalence. The difference is muddled between who is an international criminal, and a combatant. Legally, the two are not in any way able to be confused.
12:54 PM on 06/20/2012
Well I am to a liberal but I have been forced more over to their side because of the insanity and increased religious fervor of the Right. But I will answer. I don't have that many problems with it. I know it is a slippery slope, I know that it has little oversight. But for me, if it can keep soldiers out of harms way unnecessarily then I am for it. I lost 8 friends in the Iraq war and it was unnecessary and brought on them by a administration that was unbothered by things like that and getting things and reasons correct for going in. If these measures that come with the drone program can prevent more deaths and no invasions and not waste trillions of dollars in doing so. Then I am all for it.

Also the psychology of it. Terrorist exist to inspire terror. If they get the same by constantly looking into the sky and wondering if this is the day that a drone missile is going to hit their camp and wipe them out. Then I am all the more for it. This is how we should have fought terrorism from the start.
03:36 PM on 06/20/2012
Except all those killed by the drones are not terrorists. THose that weren't terrorists before the innocents were killed will be far more likely to be after.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
06:42 PM on 06/20/2012
Very well said.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
marignymitch
E pluribus unum percent
12:50 PM on 06/20/2012
No. I also don't support national security state theater or perpetual war. So I won't be voting for O this time.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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parlimentMike
It's not un-American to investigate 4 crimes.
12:50 PM on 06/20/2012
It's time to recognize that those progressive types listed and their teams are about the limit of the non-corporate media. The press isn't free, only the corporations can afford any in today's marketplace.
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JDM73
male, 38, writer/draughtsman/ex-musician
12:45 PM on 06/20/2012
I don't know what "liberal" means anymore, frankly. A lot of people who call themselves Democrats today are barely-closeted righties, and appear to have absolutely no problem with this president's dismal track record. Others lean more truly to the left, but reality hasn't set in: defending the president's status as a member of the Democratic Party is more important to them than acknowledging that he's been doing terrible things. There are no words to describe how dangerous this attitude is. We absolutely do not have the luxury of sticking our heads in the sand, not even for a minute.
03:38 PM on 06/20/2012
Agreed. Unfortunately our choices are Obama or Romney. Doesn't change much, does it?
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robinchicago
04:36 PM on 06/20/2012
I always thought to be a liberal, was to respect "every individuals" freedoms.
Bufford P Tusser
Impeach this!
12:44 PM on 06/20/2012
"do libs support Obamas ki//list?"

This one does. As comforting as it may be to live in a pollyannish bubble, there are people out there who would do us great harm (and I can understand why in some instances). I'd prefer we could accomplish this with no loss of civilians and recognize we create enemies when we drone.

Having said that, we've made our bed and have to sleep in it as best we can.

And anyone who supported the "liberation of Iraq" put a sock in it already as 100,000's of civilians died in that fiasco and your duplicitious attempts to bash Obama is without credibility.

The POTUS is fighting this the way it should of been from th get-go.

Semper Fidelis
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Molly D
06:44 PM on 06/20/2012
Great comment. Oh, it's you Bufford. Hi, guy.
Bufford P Tusser
Impeach this!
07:18 PM on 06/20/2012
Thanks D. I figured I'd shut down the righties with the duplicity reference, that ones difficult to deny. I'm suprised I didn't get some blowback from my fellow travelers who can at times be just as stuck in their idelolgy and ignore the practical aspects of a given issue. You were the only one to fav the comment however as most lefties would disagree on principle. btw: that's why I'm a "leftie" But at least I wasn't taken to the woodshed.

I'll take that as a minor victory.