The Democratic presidential candidates clashed over Iran and Iraq in the most contentious debate of the 2008 campaign on Tuesday. The night was supposed to belong to Barack Obama, who spent the weekend promoting his plan to aggressively confront Hillary Clinton, but John Edwards actually seized that role first, criticizing Clinton as a "neocon" candidate who had not "learned" from her mistakes on Iraq policy.
Obama initially downplayed his Clinton strategy as "over-hyped," but later he criticized her for continuing Bush's secretive approach to executive power. The Obama Campaign quickly circulated a YouTube clip of the exchange, along with a stream of press releases criticizing her for taking conflicting positions on "Iraq, NAFTA and Torture." "Senator Clinton offered more of the same Washington calculation, ducking and dodging," said Obama Campaign Manager David Plouffe after the debate. The strategy hit the mark with the pundits. "Hillary Clinton would not answer the questions straight," declared Chris Mathews on MSNBC's post-debate show.
Clinton confidently rebutted most of the charges, quickly pivoting back to her record challenging President Bush's policies. On Iran, she pressed her case as the responsible dove - committed to diplomacy but ready to offer tough talk and sanctions. "I stand for ending the war in Iraq, bringing our troops home," Clinton added, while contending she is more realistic about maintaining combat forces to fight Al Qaeda.
John Edwards had the strongest showing, pounding Clinton as the status quo candidate. "If you believe that combat missions should be continued in Iraq [with no timetable]," he said, "then Senator Clinton is your candidate." Edwards repeatedly presented himself as the most credible "change" candidate.
Finally, Joe Biden had the zinger of the night about Rudy Giuliani:
There's only three things he mentions in a sentence, a noun and a verb and 9/11. There's nothing else.
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Everyone knows that Russert is a republican hack and has it out for the Clintons for years. 21 questions were asked of Hillary which was the most asked of any candidate. Then we have the usual Hillary bashers: Andrea Mitchell, Fineman and Matthews get together "to analyze who won"! The entire saga is laughable
Biden was on Charlie Rose and he was right when he said that barely a minute fraction of the voting people really watch these debates. The real voter decisions are made on the campaign trails where Edwards has been stuck in the same place for 10-11 months, Obama is tanking and Hillary is expanding her lead by the day!
When all opponents, on either side, make their campaigns about Hillary, then she truly is the front-runner ...
Second, if as Republicans and many Democrats (enough I hope!) realize, she is not elected then a vote for Hillary will turn out to be a vote for Romney or Giuliani. Too many people see her for her manifold negatives.
Edwards can save us from another 8 years of Republican domination, and he has shown clearly and persuasively how he will do so.
The only way for Obama to overcome Hillary's lead isn't to score debating points. He needs to run to her left more strongly on policy issues. He also needs to do something dramatic in the Senate on the war to show the difference between Hillary and him.
10 weeks to go and he needs to shake up the fundamentals of the race, not just score debate points. This is also true for Edwards.
If its a choice between two DLC approved candidates, Hillary will win even if Obama wins every debate.
No wonder Democrats lose the White House so often.
Besides, the vote on the Iran amendment *should* have killed Hillary's chances (that and the fact that she's taken more money from the healthcare industry than ANY other candidate from either party)...but average dopes don't seem to pay attention and have no idea what's going on (the media seems to suggest the candidate who takes the MOST special interest money is the "inevitable" one who *should* win).
Instead they have vaguely fond memories of things being better with a Clinton in office.
I mean yes, of course they were better, but the last several years have been historically bad in so many ways.
Hopefully people start to pay more attention as the primaries approach. Otherwise I'm guessing we'll have more NAFTA/GATT/FCC Telecom Act of 1996 type policies coming our way if Hillary wins it all.
PS---I do think personal attacks on her (or anyone else) are unnecessary. No one should NOT vote for her because of her laugh or her cleavage or any other stupid non-reason (see video below). But there *are* credible and serious concerns to have with Hillary.
youtube.com/watch?v=jNRV6wruLb8&eurl=http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2007/10/30/12164/506
They had a "voice your choice poll" (they do every night, and no, I hardly watch local news and when I do it's for weather) and the question was "Which of these democrats will you vote for".
The choices?
Hillary OR Obama
I kept waiting to see the other choices, or at least ONE other choice (especially considering I'm liking Edwards more and more) but that was it.
Talk about the media framing the debate and possibly influencing the outcome in whatever indirect way. Absolutely ridiculous.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-sirota/edwards-move-makes-trade-_b_70243.html
They are hammering away at a guy who will be kicked back in his recliner a year from now, laughing about how his "dumb as a fox" routine defeated democrats at every turn.
It's actually making him look like he's winning again, just watching how unglued they get when they say his name, or talk about his administration.
So yes, it's entirely relevant that they discuss the current president and his policies, especially considering the fact that most of the republican presidential candidates support many of the current presidents worst policies (on energy, the war, etc.).
theyoungturks.com
Even the people on Air America and NPR seem confused. Russert and others can't seem to get a clear answer. These bozos are wasting their own time. It's hilarious. Blame, blame, blame. Especially Hillary who gets angry at every question, but won't simply answer. She's already lost all credibility.It's like watching a circus. I'm waiting for Loster Boy and the Bearded Lady to show up at the next Dem debate.
Maybe they'll talk more about UFO's. Ridiculous.
Edwards went for the direct attack style to make his point and it fit with his image of fighting populist.
Obama exposed Hillary with issues and her lack of a real stand. He has to keep with his new politics he is trying to bring. Attack dog style would hurt him.
I live in Illinois and Obama can do the hard edged attack but, he wants to change this as it is unproductive. He is attacking on the issues and substance. Not on personal.
The media's obsession with a bloodbath between Hillary and Obama is so childish.
They are hardly nuetral moderators, and they purposely attempted to discount Kucinich with that UFO cr*p!
Countdown to Change: Join Barack Obama in San Francisco, CA
©2006 Yahoo! Inc.Data ©Navteq,TeleAtlas
Driving directions / Larger Map
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
6:30 PM
Bill Graham Civic Auditorium
99 Grove Street
San Francisco, California 94102
Obama will get the full force of the ANGER and DISGUST McClurkin's gospel Hate-Fest, with equally putrid Mary Mary caused his campaign....in San Francisco.
I wouldn't venture into West Hollywood, Chelsea, or Chicago's Halstead, or South Beach...either.
why did you threaten OBAMA Qbear? This post is dangerous, telling Obama the areas you wouldn’t venture into if you were him. DANGEROUS! I will certainly pass it on to THE U.S. SECRET SERVICE, so if anything happens while Obama is in the places you listed, they'll know where to find you and other bigots who spew hatred and make threats.
It is refeshing to see Fact Based reporting, as the Poisoned Republican Controlled information Pipelines and their appeasers:
the PSYCHOLOGIALLY ABUSIVE Talking Heads(ignorant, alcholoics, blatant operatives, propaganda cult victims, holes, and otherwise) ) egg on the Democrats to destroy each other.
With the Prevailing "Value" being those of Juvenile Delinquents -- of the "leaders" in the White Houes in which:
Intellectual dishonesty, blatetnt lies and Moooning is considered "strong"
Sadly Edwards and Obama took the Bite. Egged on by days of Alchololic ploys from Chris Mathes and months from AH, they proved who they really are: Desparate, Immature, fools ..Using the Psychologically Abusive Model of Republican Opertive Frank Lunz.
(It's not what you say, what you imly that works when you try to appeal to those too busy working and not too bright to pay attention to the facts)
And while Edwards was a oomplete Bush Moron,
Obama, at least appears to be wasting his contributors' money by actually paying money to Frank Lunz.
The winner was clearly the only adult among the frontrunners: Senator Clinton
WHO WON THE ULTIMATE TEST of a STATESPERSON: INTELLIGENCE, ARTICULATENESS, HONESTY, AND THE ABILITY TO DO NUANCE.
It's time people measured a candidate's
character by their campaign. Hillary!!
Edwards f...you, you liar!
Frank Lunz's book is called: It's not what you say but what people hear that counts. He is a pilar of the PR blueprints of the Republican Party.
What it should be called is: "It's not what you say but what you IMLY, and who you implicate with LIES that counts"
The implication by Obama that Hillary has anything that even remotely resembles the Neocons, and Edward's imlication that Hillary is IN ANY WAY not Trustworthy Shows they deserve both should go back to where they came from. They are not ready for Prime Time.
We do not need more Republican style LIARS
deceiving the electorate.
Good Bye Edwards! Be careful what you say Obama you are contradicting the premise under which HONEST AND INTELLIGENT people were drawn to you.
You need to fight the real enemies: The Republicans and Al Qaeda!
It is increasingly clear that the Dems are just as much shills for their corporate master.
Government of the People, by the People, for the People is dead. May it rest in Peace!
Independent America wants nothing more to do with the Bush/Clinton family feud.