Mark it down. The bar has been set. We now have the test by which we judge all actions taken by the leaders of America: Is it worse than burning 120,000 people to death? Call it the Buchanan Hiroshima-Nagasaki Standard. Appearing on Hardball this week to defend the Bush administration's use of torture, Pat Buchanan tried to offer a little perspective: "Is waterboarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed a worse thing than dropping two atomic bombs on people and burning 120,000 people to death? Sending 40,000 more to death by radiation?" I guess he preferred that WWII reference to the one from Paul Begala about us executing Japanese soldiers who waterboarded American POWs. Elsewhere on the torture front, Sean Hannity offered to be waterboarded for charity. A little like one of those charity auctions where celebrities agree to have lunch with the highest bidder. Only with a suffocation appetizer.
Now he has Bush /Cheny to defend. Thats asking a lot of poor Pat.
Pat seems to find his conclusions the way a lot of his heros did. He first finds his conclusion and then cherry picks the evidence to support it. Instead of looking at all the evidence and then comming to the conclusion. Allthough this seems pretty standard inside the beltway.
Let’s be frank. He's right, but the real game is Republicans trying to fool the American people into believing there is truly some remaining ‘debate’ to be had, so as to prejudice future anticipated criminal proceedings against Cheney, Bush and the legal opinions of their Justice Department lackeys. American made their judgment clear with the election. They believe the Constitution and the Geneva Conventions relay our values to the world and want to regain the high ground. We know there is no true debate left. What we are watching ad nauseum on TV is the attempt to turn excuses into reasons to avoid consequences of criminal actions. As much as I like the articulate and penetrating Chris Matthews, even he has fallen willing victim to revving up the responsibility discussion, when the answer has long been clear. Thinking Americans know who is to blame, and are getting increasingly offended that, for the sake of ratings, we are being subjected to daily debates re-determining fault. It’s as if the Press has finally fallen for the propagandist Republican game of ‘he who shouts the loudest and longest shapes public opinion’. That doesn’t work with the people any more. We saw what happened when our voices were not heard. Didn’t they get the memo on November 3? Who is to blame? The Usual Suspects, of course.
The Japanese soldiers that were hanged following their war crimes trials after WWII were executed for FAR MORE than simply waterboarding. Google "Japanese Atrocities Unit 731" to learn why these despicable individuals were really condemned to hang.
No Japanese soldier, NOT A SINGLE ONE, was executed for simply waterboarding a POW.
People that still vote republican't are NOT likely viewers of Matthews and Maddow anyway, nor would I bet are most progressives and Democrats very appreciative of that 'fixed' mentality (and hypocrisy) continually being injected into their daily current events download, so to speak.
I don't know why conservatives are so willing to give up their principles.
The problem with teaching our children principles is that they actually expect us to follow them.
What is as dangerous to our democracy and freedom as the torture itself, is the ridiculous notion some of our public officials are spouting, that it is justice when we look back and investigate and prosecute the average American who has broken the law, but it is "wrong" and "retribution" for us to investigate and prosecute a government official who has broken the law.
In the American justice system, once a crime is committed, we ALWAYS LOOK BACK in order to investigate the crime. Then, if there is enough evidence, we move forward to prosecute. That is the very definition of Justice in this country. And equal justice for all means that the same applies to anyone who has broken the law, whether in government or not.
We didn't nuke Naples or Milan, did we?
On the other hand, the Japanese were so brutal in their occupation of parts of China and Singapore that those Japanese born during the war and since have no knowledge of it. The history is banned in Japan. They were so brutal they made anything done by other dictators in the 20th C pale in comparison, except maybe Genrikh Yagoda, Stalin's guy who killed 10 million and created the gulags and Cheka.
Theory: Every kid in elementary school can tell you who the bullies are; they would admit it themselves. Who do they grow up into? People who think causing physical and/or psychological harm to another person is okay? Politicians, doctors, lawyers, servicemen/women, normal in every way, except . . . . .
Read the FACTS. Here's a snippet:
" Article 2
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture."
http://washingtonindependent.com/26918/obama-torture
He issued these orders a mere 2 days after taking office. "Enhanced" interrogation is NOT legal.
Oh, and as far as the rest of your comment; are you serious? A few jack*sses carry their interrogations way too far and now you're worried about the police, parents and schools using corporal punishment on our children??? What universe are you living in? Sounds like an interesting place to visit but I wouldn't want to stay.
But they wanted an admission that 911 had a connection to Sadaam Hussien. I guess, just like the search for WMDs this failed also...
Buchanan did give me pause for a minute. What is an act of war and what isn't? Certainly, dropping those nukes was far worse than waterboarding a few people.
Ultimately, though, the difference is effectiveness. The nukes were very very effective. Torture, not so much.