An Honest Display of Lying
Commuters jammed the train. As one commuter exited, another immediately sat down next to me.
"Oh, it's you," he said. "I remember you. "
I remembered him too.
"Listen," he said, opening his laptop. "I'm not interested in discussing politics with you. We have different points of view. You're not going to convince me of anything and I'm probably not going to change your mind either."
I nodded. He was right. What's the point of having a discussion with someone when you already know the outcome? I looked out the window, content to count the rapidly passing trees.
He turned to me, "So, what did you think of your boy Obama's speech the other night?"
My boy Obama? "I thought you didn't want to discuss politics."
"I don't. I was just wondering what you thought about his speech. He went on and on -- must've been 45 minutes. "
"You want my opinion on the length of his speech?"
"Never mind." He turned his attention back to his computer screen.
"What was your opinion of the Congressman from South Carolina, Joe Wilson, yelling "You lie!" at the President." I asked him.
"It may not have been appropriate, but it was an honest display of emotion."
"So if someone assaults someone who they disagree with, the fact that it was an honest display of emotion ought to square things?" I asked. "That wouldn't fly in a courtroom. Sorry I shot those people, your honor, but it was an honest display of emotion."
"You're making a big deal out of a little outburst," he said dismissively.
"It would be more credible if Wilson and others like him showed their distaste of government sponsored health care by giving up their own government sponsored health care."
"He said he was sorry, what more do you want?" he countered.
"I'm sorry I had sex with your wife said your neighbor."
"That's offensive."
"It's offensive that an elected official behaved like a drunk in a barroom during a Presidential speech. Whether you agree with him or not, Obama is the president and there is supposed to be a respect for that office. You talk about family values and role models, what kind of message is his behavior sending?" I asked.
"This is just another example of the left trying to demonize the right."
"I admit I do have a fundamental problem with people showing up armed at town hall meetings, shouting down others who disagree then taking that same kind of disruptive behavior into a presidential speech. It stretches the boundaries of acceptable behavior. What happened to civilized debate?"
"I feel bad for Joe Wilson. He's being made an example of."
"This is the best thing that ever happened to him," I countered. "A few days ago nobody knew who he was, now everybody does. He certainly couldn't get a national reputation for his accomplishments in Congress."
"Listen, a lot of people just want their America back," He was agitated.
"Are you talking about the Navajos?"
"I'm talking about almost two and a half million people who showed up in Washington to protest health care reform and the direction of this administration." He was getting more agitated.
"Where did you come up with that number?"
"That was the official estimate, " he said.
"You lie!" I shouted. "Associated Press estimated the crowd to be tens of thousands, ABC news reported 60,000-70,000. Freedomworks, the organizer of the march estimated "hundreds of thousands" on their own website."
"These were estimates from bloggers who were there-"
"I guess you're right," I agreed. "People like me have been unreasonable about hearing the other side of the health care debate. What is the other side of the debate?"
"The current plan provided coverage for illegal immigrants until that was brought to light."
"You lie!" I shouted.
"I beg your pardon?"
I continued,"You lie about the plan covering illegal immigrants, you lie about health care reform leading to socialized medicine, you lie about care being denied to the elderly, you lie about the government eliminating Medicare, you lie about the President brainwashing our children-"
"That's unfair, untrue and rude-"he interrupted.
"In fact, the success of "Cash for Clunkers" is being combined with health care reform so sick old people can be traded in for younger, healthier ones. Your grandparents could end up being younger than you -- and you get a new car in the trade."
"Now you're being ridiculous-"
"Maybe if I say it loud enough and often enough people will believe it - it works for you."
He angrily snapped his laptop shut.
"There are legitimate questions about the costs," I said, "how it will be paid for, what services would be affected, how it will be implemented, what is included, what isn't - rational questions for a rational discussion-"
"I'm not interested in your idea of rational discussion." He got up to leave as the train screeched to a halt. "Our country is at risk of a government takeover of our health care system."
"I agree with you."
He looked back at me, puzzled. "You agree?"
"I agree that you're not interested in having a rational discussion."
He turned away, muttering, "You lie," under his breath.
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Was this person's name "Straw Man", by chance?
Incredible Jeff!
I actually think that this could be turned into a movie short! I can visualize this as vividly as if I were actually sitting across the train from the two you.
What is the over/under on getting a third encounter to brightening up another work day for me and everyone else who reads your posts.?!
Brilliant! Can you imagine an interview, a post, a comment, an article that is not consumed by the passion of impassioning the viewer, the reader, the hearer? The buzz words roll off the tongues of politicians, commentators, and the public at large when given a large public forum to speak. But ... what do they really think, feel, or understand about the specific issue? Can you imagine an exchange without labels, slogans, rallying cries? Biden said that Rudy was only "a noun, a verb, and 9/11." The conversation is co-opted into made-for-TV sound bites. Have we no vocabulary beyond that which inflames the passions, is provocative, or uses the worst synonym for "said?" Can you hear the poor word choices ... yelled, fired back, smack down?
After reading the content of the conversation, the "outburst" was wrong at the time, wrong in the revered hall of Congress, and is still wrong at the present time. It is most wrong to the American people. How many times do we get to yell and/or question the integrity and truthfulness of our boss and face no reprimand? Joe Wilson is an employee of the people of South Carolina. He was duly elected and works for them. Additionally he is an elected official to the U.S. House of Representatives. He works for all Americans. Insubordination will get you fired, released from duty, and so on. How do proud, patriotic Americans square this kind of idiocy?
The unfortunate result of the entire discussion was zip, zero and nada. Idealogy, partisanship or racism trumps any rational discussion. The conversation was effectively over before it started. Sad, but true, although it was a good read and the writer definitely one-upped the other dude.
Way to stand firm.
That's also the way to stand on real facts, not what someone says so many times repeated over and over again until it brings out the ignorance in others... That's why it's great what ya said, "Maybe if I say it loud enough and often enough people will believe it - it works for you."
Too bad Obama didn't hire Howard Dean instead of Kathleen Sebelius. We sure could've used someone that stands firm, talks back, and talks sense like you did on that Commuter Train, on a National level. Dems & clear thinkers in general need to do that a hell of a lot more.
Great post. Thanks.
Check and Mate, Well done sir.
Thanks you.
take it to em!
This would have been a dream scenario for me, so kudos to you!!!
You "done good".
Well played sir. Well played.
Contrary to the urban legand repeated by regular riders of commuter trains, Pres Obama has repeatedly pointed out that, while he serves the USA & its people; nobody owns him. While radical progressives insist that BHO sold out to the establishment to beome POTUS. Pres Obama insists that he is POTUS, not my or your property. Pres Obama makes that point constantly. BHO's supporters say that Pres Obama is our president, with our being used in the collective or universal sense. It's easier to say that Pres Obama is our president that to say Pres Obama is my president because it is true.
Disclosure: I'm a radical, Trotskyist, socialist. I have very good reason to believe that Pres Obama is owned by the USA's power elite as evidenced by the USA's establishment funding & supporting BHO's campaign for POTUS since April, 2008. BHO won't ever do anything which would inconveince America's establishment. He has spent his adult life preparing to sell himself to America's power elite as the ideal candidate for a state legislator, US Senator & POTUS.
I accept everything you say. Or I will, as soon as you drag in ONE "regular rider of commuter trains" to cover your statements. I got all day. I'm one of the uncounted unemployed living below frickin' poverty level.
Respectuflly, Joe Wilson's true crime was not simply his bad manners and petulance, it was that he was the only unruly li ar in the room shouting "you lie!"
We can all read. We all know that the reform bill Obama was referring to specifically and unequivocally excludes illegals----yet Wilson is being called out for breaking protocol by both the right and the left while both sides are ignorning the elephant in the room.
Wilson l i e d.
If Joe Wilson is not punished for what he did to the first African American President of the United States of America and his offense ignored his case may become a world wide cause célèbre of the civil rights movement of the 21st century.
Oh, PRICELESS!! Thanks!
Ah, the futility of trying to have a rational discussion with someone who is driven by ideology rather than rationality.
So true.
Akin to trying to reason with a three year old who has their fingers in their ears while yelling.
Democrat: "Let me tell you precisely, not only how this health care reform plan will work, but what it will do for you and countless Americans."
Republican: "You're a nazi!", "Socialism!", "Where's your birth certificate?", "Socialism!", "Keep your government hands off my Medicare!" and my personal favorite, "I want my country baaaaaaaaaaaack!!!".
Awesome. We all need to find ways to show them how unrational they sound.
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