Welcome to the ongoing discussion about living your best life after 50. Each week I post an article to ignite a discussion about the challenges and joys of midlife. Please read, share, comment and engage! The more people involved in the conversation, the more we'll all connect and learn from each other. If there's something specific you'd like to discuss, I'd love to hear from you.
We're smack in the middle of National Women's History Month, and International Women's Day just passed. In this context, my cousin from Germany came for a visit. Over coffee, I was telling her about my daughter's upcoming class trip, and she asked to see the itinerary. While scanning the pages, she gasped: "I can't believe America still uses Mrs. to address women. Why aren't they protesting, especially this week?"
She was referring to the list of teachers who would be accompanying my daughter's class on the trip. Some were listed as Mrs., a few were Ms. (with one Mr.). She was seriously incredulous. What's more, she was quite perturbed when I told her that women are often listed as "Mrs. Robert Smith."
In Germany, it used to be that "Fraulein" (the equivalent of "Miss" in the U.S.) was used for any woman who was unmarried, regardless of age. "Frau" (Mrs.) was reserved for married women only. Therefore, a woman who was 80 and unmarried would still be referred to as Fraulein, which was viewed by many as insensitive and condescending.
Not that long ago, though, Germany adopted a new standard for how women are to be addressed: All women, regardless of age or marital status are now referred to as Frau. It's not a written law, per se, but it has become part of the collective consciousness of the German people, and the standard.
Why can't the United States figure this out?
I know, I know. This isn't a new question. As a society, we started questioning the use of Mrs. and Miss to address women in the 1960s when Gloria Steinem adopted Ms. for her magazine and promoted the concept of Ms. as a title for women. It was then that the whole discussion heated up and started to really percolate. Ms. became an acceptable salutation for all women, but the question I am raising here is this: Why do we continue to use three?
Not really knowing the current status of the debate, I was eager to get a handle on how things had progressed since the 1960s. I googled "Ms. vs. Mrs." and a few things came up (including an abundance of information on Mississippi and Multiple Sclerosis). One search result was a short interview with Alma Graham, who, in 1972, had the distinction of being the first lexicographer to put Ms. into a dictionary, and who offered a concise explanation of how Ms. came to be.
Next, I read an article that was part of Time magazine's 2009 "The State of the American Woman" special report, by a writer who starts by letting the reader know how unsure she is about whether she's a Mrs. or a Ms., and ends it by declaring that it's okay not to care.
And there's not been too much written about it since, at least according to Google.
Have we just collectively given up the cause? Do we, like the Time magazine writer, no longer really care? Is it okay to just let every woman choose for herself? What if she has chosen, but others continue to refer to her by a different and unwanted title? Has the roar of women turned into a whimper? What is the message we are giving to younger women?
I'm sure my cousin didn't mean to cause me so much angst, but angst is what I am feeling right now.
Do we still need salutations that identify a woman's age and marital status?
Always curious to know what others are thinking, I put this question to HuffPost readers and Facebook friends. Here's what some of them had to say (reprinted with their permission):
No! we do not need that. I am who I am -- divorced, single, not married and 57. If you want to know that, and I want to tell you, I will. I am not defined by titles, educational degrees, proper nouns or social status.
--Teresa Tanner Montgomery
I'd prefer one salutation, just like men have always had. Their marital status doesn't define them!
--Catherine Nyhan Cheney
I don't need any salutations, but if I need to choose one, "Ms." suits me just fine.
--Connie Challingsworth
I don't care for any of the mentioned labels, as each one has been used in a derisive manner toward me through the years. When wanting to talk down to me, I've had people use the term "Well Miss Leppert." When wanting to infer that I was not displaying "proper" feminine temperament, I've been called "Ms. Leppert." And the dreaded "Mrs. Leppert" comes out of the mouths of so many throwback to the Stone Age mouths that it makes me shudder. I am a happily married woman who has a name. It's Kathleen Leppert. Call me Kathleen if you really know me, or feel free to refer to me as "she who is beyond labels." Don't worry; mail will make it to me with that name. The postal carrier knows me.
--Kathleen Creel Leppert
Just as "Mr." is determined by gender and not by marital status and age, the same holds true for "Ms." I just checked my online dictionary, and it stated that "Ms." originated in the 1950s, the combination of Mrs. and Miss. Really? We've had Ms. in our lexicon for 50-plus years and are still confronted with the stereotypical Mrs. and Miss? I, for one, would like to end the Mrs./Miss issue. I see that happening one daughter at a time.
--Sally Prangley
Sadly, I think that the connection between the term "Ms." and the "Women's Lib" movement made use of the term uncomfortable for those who want equality, but have never burned a bra. The question becomes, do we need a new identifier that just means "female," or is it possible to "rebrand" the term "Ms." as one without political connotations?
--Terri Bunofsky
I always felt it was more out of respect than defining our status. However, that being said, I do like seeing C.E.O. connected with a woman's name.
--Vickie Stahl
I'm still really surprised that we continue to use Miss and Mrs. at all, this many years after the women's movement. Grown men are Mr., regardless, and grown women should be Ms., regardless. I always choose Ms. when given a choice. I always use Ms. for other women. Funny enough, I do run in to plenty of married women of all ages who want to insist on Mrs. If that's their choice, I respect it. But it's not mine.
--Wendy Painter Padilla
I would prefer to say I am simply "Gigi" and nothing defines me!
--Gigi Schilling
I use Ms. if I have to use something, but I don't actually feel the need for a title at all -- have tried to get friends and relatives to stop calling me "Mrs. James Colsmith" for years! My name is not Mrs. James Colsmith. Why do they insist on calling me an imaginary name I don't like?
--Marcia CoIsmith
Our outdated proper etiquette needs to be changed. I think Ms. is the best catch-all that we have at this time, but would be happy to entertain a new one altogether --so long as it's just one. The whole idea of being Mrs. husband's-first-name husband's-last-name is downright condescending, a slap in the face -- ludicrous, when you think about it.
--Lisa Lundberg King
Those were just a few of the many comments I got. Isn't it time we considered re-opening this discussion all over again, and fighting the good fight once more? As part of our legacy, shouldn't we -- especially those of us who are over 50 and were there when these questions were first introduced -- try to make this important change in our language, our culture, our society, our collective consciousness?
Marianne Schnall, founder of Feminist.com and author of "Daring To Be Ourselves," summed it up with these words:
I can foresee a future where one title will be used for all women, like "Ms." -- which doesn't disclose our personal details or imply some type of identity shift dependent on our relationships, the same way a generic "Mr." is used for men. We should not be labeling and categorizing women by our marital status using Miss and Mrs., especially given that "marital" status in general has different interpretations these days, since not all couples -- heterosexual and otherwise -- are legally "married."
Isn't it time?
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Mrs. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you are truly comfortable in who you are, then it thing that is being defined by "Miss", "Ms." or "Mrs." is the mindset of the person using it.
Women have too many other issues of equality to be dealt with, without spending time worrying about this.
Your article sparked an interesting discussion among some of our Girlfriends and we wanted to share the thread with you. Thanks for the great conversations! http://ht.ly/4gdX7
Thanks for reading, commenting, and sharing the thread . . . I will be following you!
Best,
Barbara
I actually took my husband's name, but use my maiden name as well (not hyphenated) (Barbara Hannah Grufferman), thinking at the time (almost 18 years ago) that it would be less confusing at school, etc., if and when we had children (we did--two daughters), however, I try my best to persuade everyone to address me as Ms. because I strongly believe in this idea of salutations for women that do not highlight marital status or age. Quite a few readers left comments stating that the most important aspect of feminism is "choice" . . . and that people should have the right to choose. I get that concept, but I also think that the use of "Mrs" is so ingrained in our culture, that it will be hard to change, even for die hard feminists.
Thanks so reading, and commenting . . .
Barbara
I can't stand people that call me Mr. Raven. My name is Matt. Raven is my family name, not my name.
We need to get past this idiotic reliance on last names. Why is it such a crime to call someone by their name? Why is it insulting, or demeaning? I am Matt, you are Carol, she is Sue, that guy over there is Alex.
Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, lets call the whole thing off.....
FYI – “Monikers†are people’s names or nicknames, like Bob, Mary, Slash, or Zippy. Mr, Mrs, Dr, Officer, et al., are honorifics, but commonly called “titles.†But I understand what you meant to say.
With great respect... you views are a re-hash of youthful ideology in the 1960's. I would not be surprised if every generation has its period of, "Hey dude, let's just be first name buddies"! Most grow out of it due to the realization that full names and titles have purpose and serve one function of another in about every cultural arena.
Besides, if you want to be "Mr. Friendly" and have everyone from your boss to your employees calling your by your first name, it’s OK with me. But you will suffer when an employee makes assumptions based on the familiar nature of your acceptance of a "first name basis." There are cultural and societal reasons against it.
Maybe some social psych courses would lend insight into the benefits of titles and such. They add to structure and respect in society, while giving order and predictability to personal and private relationships.
Consider: You go to court over a speeding ticket and the judge’s name is Bob Martin; would you say “Not guilty Bob.†Or “Not guilty your honor�
About your inane idea of dropping last names, there are too any legal and administration … oh good grief… just grow up.
His Serene Highness R. Lawson Meadows
One more thing: Using peoples first names in situations where expected is fine.
In a non-professional vs professional setting, social conventions are different. At a party I see my friend, Dr. Ron Hermann, and address him as Ron because of familiarity and mutual consent; at a conference, his office, or introductions (even at the party) I would say Dr. Hermann out of respect, expectation, and convention, and leave it up to him to consent to a more familiar form of address.
To deny the social utility or these conventions just because you deem them silly seems in itself... well, silly.
Also, I just thought of some potential problems with first name only meetings. You got a woman's number while clubbing and call her later.
"Hello, this is Tiffy"
"Hi, this is Matt"
"Matt?"
"Yeah, we met at the club last Saturday."
"I met a couple of guys named Matt, which one are you?"
"I am the tall good looking one with the great hair and a killer smile"
"Doesn't ring a bell. What else you got?"
"I bought you two Sex-on-the-beaches"
"You and some other guys, and if i remember correctly one girl."
"Hmmm, tell you what, I will send a picture"
"OK, bye"
Versus...
"Hello, this is Tiffy"
"Hi, this is Matt Raven"
"Oh, hi Matt..."
... and so on.
Too bad you were forced to use your family name!
Lawson the Elder :)
The power to dictate what others should be called is part of the infrastructure of power that feminists have fought against. Self-naming is the highest level of freedom.
Personally, I'd like to dispose of the gendered honorific altogether, but I am sure my preference is in the minority. Abbreviate it to a mere "M." and keep 'em guessing.
Thanks for reading and commenting . . .
Barbara
p.s. I guess the same problem still exists in France with Mademoiselle/Madame.
All the best,
Barbara
However, I rarely use Mrs. because I never changed my name when I got married. So, I'm not technically "Mrs. anybody" even though I'm married.
Why should women take on the man's name is the issue? For young women or anyone, I say just keep your own name and don't take on your husband's last name. It makes a difference in many ways in a relationship and asserts your identity independence.
If you have children together, the child has a hyphenated last name. Not one or the other.
It's interesting about German women removing the marital status - but I know that when German women marry male doctors they are called "Frau Doctor" but the woman isn't the doctor..it's her husband!
The main issue presented here is not so much taking the man's name when marrying (that's an entirely different, but related, discussion). The question is whether women should continue to be addressed as Mrs. . . . or can we all just agree to have women, regardless of age or marital status, be referred to as Ms. A few have brought up the use of "Ma'am" or "Miss" . . . but I think the key issue here is "Is Mrs. still necessary?" And, based on the many comments I see here, and on Facebook, it seems as though we are not, as a society, of the same mind . . . yet.
Best,
Barbara
Would it be so hard to just eliminate the whole issue? Use the person's name, not their familial affiliation.
You address Kelley by her first name. You sign your post with your first name. It seems to be working. Mr, Mrs, Miss, Ms, and all the rest are absurd anachronisms. Lets all just drop them, and be done with it. Why label yourself as anything? Just be who you are, not labeled as married/single, male/female, etc....