Scott Roeder: A Terrorist Worth Waterboarding?
For years now, pro-torture advocates have given us the same scenario to justify enhanced interrogation: What if a terrorist had information of more violence, murder, and attacks on Americans to come? Wouldn't torture be justified to get that information and save lives? It's the ticking time bomb plot, that scene from "24," where if we only force the information out of the terrorist, who knows how many lives will be saved?
Today, that real life terrorist is Scott Roeder, the man alleged to have shot and killed Dr. George Tiller because Tiller performed abortions. Roeder has not been convicted of anything yet, but he has been charged and sits in prison and told the AP yesterday that there are more planned assassinations of doctors who perform abortions. If, like the detainees of Guantanamo Bay, provable guilt isn't the standard for torture, we can get started on Roeder, correct? Here is a man who tells us he knows of more murders to come -- do we torture him to save lives?
The only thing that doesn't fit the pro-torture scenario is that Roeder is a white man and not a Muslim. Let's ask the question anyway: where is the right wing pro-torture faction when it comes to water boarding a domestic terrorist who happens to be a right-wing American?
Roeder puts into perfect perspective why we don't torture -- it's not about the truth, it's about revenge. Like the death penalty, who we decide to hand out these punishments to has a lot more to do with it than what they did or why they did it. The statistics show that when convicted for the same capital punishment crimes, men get the death penalty more than women, and men of color get the death penalty more than white men. These decisions are based on cultural issues that have nothing to do with justice, seeking justice, or getting the truth.
So no, Scott Roeder is not worth torturing, nor is anyone.
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All the domestic terrorists are right-wingers. I don't know if I'd call them "Americans
Aw com'on, he's a Right Wing terrorist, they don't count.
It's probably because people like Roeder are killing people the right wing feels are expendable, so it's not a big priority.
I think waterboarding murderers is a fine idea. I don't think we should go Hanoi Hilton on them. But I've never been tortured, and John McCain says waterboarding is torture, and he is an authority, so I would have to defer to John McCain's judgement on this.
If the man had information that could prevent widescale murder, especially on a wide scale, I'd have no problem waterboarding him.
But there's really no need to do so --the guy is not part of some organized effort and has no knowledge worth getting.
And therefore your article is really a reach too far--perhaps you don't understand that waterboarding is not a punishment tactic. It was a way to get information.
He should (and will be) prosecuted and punished for his crime.
An interesting strategy, but we know that is wrong and will not call for torture even in this situation.
"Let's ask the question anyway: where is the right wing pro-torture faction when it comes to water boarding a domestic terrorist who happens to be a right-wing American?"
Right here and I say do it. OK. I got no problem with it.
I am on the right and I have no problem with water boarding this individual as well as any other means necessary. How does that fit into your little hypocrisy angle you were trying to achieve. Sorry I couldn't play along in your little game.
And you are an anonymous person who nobody cares about, not even your mother, so your whole little snit doesn't matter. Go play with yourself some more and go blind.
Okay, that was juvenile. But to address CuriousInSeattle's point, I suppose one could praise your consistence, but I think waterboarding is torture, criminal, and immoral. In any case, the larger point of this article is that the so-called ticking time bomb scenario is being played out right now. Roeder claims that we should brace ourselves for more killings, which sounds pretty illegal to me, whatever your opinion on abortion. So why isn't there an outcry for this man to be waterboarded from the numerous and varied supporters of this technique? That is the hypocrisy angle.
This is clearly the ticking time bomb scenario.
He implies that other attacks will come.
So he must have valuable information.
If we apply the same arguments conservatives use, then logically waterboarding him is entirely justifiable.
"men get the death penalty more than women, and men of color get the death penalty more than white men"
You forgot ......whit
"These decisions are based on cultural issues that have nothing to do with justice, seeking justice, or getting the truth."
This is not even a worthy point to discuss. That the debate will be inevitable is disgusting.
Take this piece in conjunction with http://www
Labels are lazy. Once we label someone, we don't have to think critically about him. "Terrorists" are non-white, non-Christian, non-American, not "us." Terrorists are always somewhere else unless they "invade" us as they did on 9/11.
We won't label Roeder and his fellow travelers as "terrorists" because that would destroy all our insulating delusions about terrorism and terrorists. Then, to borrow from Pogo, it would be a case of, "We have met the terrorists, and they are us!" And that won't do.
Well, America, time to wake up and smell the explosives. We have all manner of terrorists here in the Homeland. They've been blowing up buildings and shooting people since the 1960s, at least, and you'd better bet they're planning more of the same. So what shall we do? The FBI could start reeling them in and wringing the truth out of them. Of course, people you work with, or family members, might start disappearing. Your son or daughter may vanish in the night. You might even vanish if someone who doesn't like you phones in a tip to the FBI about some imaginary plot you're involved in. But hey! Better safe that blown up! Right?
Well, personally I'll take my chances with due process. I'll take liberty, equality and reason every time, even if the risk is high, the danger real. Even if they waterboard me.
Waterboarding doesn't work. Want to get the scoop, put in an FBI agent who has worked against the right wing nuts on the fringe. Use the right buzz words in the discussion, get him to think he's talking to one of his own. He'll open up.
I doubt he knows anything.
Others might, its time to seriously go after these anti abortion types as a criminal conspiracy. He was aided and abetted by those that think they can keep their hands clean. Time to round them up. Starting with Operation Rescue and all their web site hangers on. Wasn't that was the Patriot Act was all about....?
Anyone who breaks the law needs to be punished to the full extent of the law but everyone has the right to free speech. If someone conspired to kill Dr Tiller then they need to be prosecuted but you cannot punish people because you disagree with them.
It's called RICO.
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