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Benjamin R. Barber

Benjamin R. Barber

Posted: April 16, 2010 05:03 PM

15 Reasons Why We Can't Win in Afghanistan

What's Your Reaction:

1. There is no " Afghanistan," only an inchoate collection of warring tribes, factions and clans.

2. To the extent there is an "Afghanistan," its government is deeply corrupt and unable to control its own divided country.

3. President Kharzai, our "ally" and the official representative of the "state" on whose behalf we fight, would prefer that we leave -- at least when it comes to what he says for internal consumption.

4. Not that it matters what he thinks since the President of Afghanistan is for all practical purposes little more than the Mayor of Kabul -- and that's on good days.

5. The only thing that unites this otherwise disintegral non-state is that the fractious tribes that despise one another hate foreigners even more.

6. Foreign forces, whatever their intentions, will always be seen as occupiers and hence, the enemy.

7. Ghengis Khan, the British and the Russians all tried to "win" in Afghanistan, and they all failed; it would be an exaggeration to say their futile attempts brought down three empires.... or would it?

8. You can't win wars when you're killing civilians, yet in Afghanistan where the boundary between combatants and civilians is blurred you necessarily are killing a great many civilians a lot of the time.

9. Occupying places where Muslims live (and where they die at your hand) will always been seen as a war against Islam rather than a war against terrorism.

10. You can't make people free at the barrel of a gun.

11. There is no better way to create terrorists than to make war on Muslims in the name of fighting wars against terrorism.

12. America can't save the world, and risks losing what is best in America when it tries.

13. Military force and overwhelming firepower applied from the outside are more likely to undermine than sustain the development of democracy inside a developing country.

14. Al Qaeda is not Afghanistan and it is not the Taliban either; it is a malevolent NGO, and winning Afghanistan or defeating the Taliban cannot vanquish al Qaeda.

15. We can't pay for questionable wars abroad and afford justice and economic recovery at home, and trying to do so is likely to lead to losing the war and undermining justice.

 

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batguano
As Long As Grass Grow, Wind Blow & The Sky Is Blue
01:04 PM on 04/20/2010
America’s ME wars of occupation and military/economic colonization follow the Israeli model. It was Israeli efforts (together with pro-Israel US NeoCons) to get the US “into their fight”, that succeeded in trapping us in a no-win future in the ME “fighting terrorism” for Israeli “security”; Afghanistan is just one example, with Iran & Syria also desired as victims. Creating “terrorism” as an entity in itself, was a basic Israeli goal to sell their genocidal acts against Palestinians as “fighting terrorism”, rather than allow the world to see it right, as civilian people fighting repression, injustice, ethnic cleansing, brutal occupation & overwhelming advantage in arms, any way they could, regardless of how western values were offended, as any people would when pushed to the extreme. Terrorism is a heinous crime, and that is what it should be seen as, a crime, including by official state apparatus, not an excuse for “war without end” or occupation. The belief that “international terrorism” is a monolithic entity in itself to be fought by any means, rather than a response to belligerent territorial, social, economic and military actions by Israel, primarily, and their perceived proxy, and unqualified supporter/supplier, the US, is a successful grand scam that has not been sufficiently challenged. American NeoCon warmongering, plans for “war without end”, & support for extremist Israeli goals, the maintenance and obscene funding/profits of the US war machine and MIC, together with the quest for oil and economic dominance in the ME complete the picture -- IMO.
08:24 PM on 04/19/2010
Well I agree in some respects, but would offer two more.
16) Although the United States has the military power to destroy the Taliban in both Pakistan and Afghanistan, it does not possess the will to use the full extent of its military and is entangled with the sovereignty concerns of Pakistan.
17) The United States refuses to unleash its military power to such an extent as would be necessary because it does not have the stomach for war, fears a refugee crisis and cannot stomach the sort of savagery necessary to do the job.
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03:12 PM on 04/19/2010
This war and Iraq have been very badly handled, and the Republican party, in complete control during those critical years, deserves the most blame for this mess.

First they ignored warnings about 9-11 and there are many other obvious problems with that weak investigation, so we need a new one. Then instead of only targeting the bad guys they invade an entire country, a very big one very, very far away.

Staying there and in Iraq for longer than necessary only makes a big part of the world, Muslims, angry or hate us, along with our much too blind support for right wing Israel. Especially since those governments do not seem to appreciate our sacrifice's we should get out as soon as realistically possible.

Afganistan is more of China's and Russia's problem, let them deal with it. They are already there mining while we protect them, what sense does that make.
01:31 PM on 04/19/2010
Some facts:
1. Afghans have no trouble working or cooperating with foreign troops when it is in their best interest.
a. Many Afghans actively supported Northern Alliance and U.S. in the overthrow of Taliban.
b. The same Islamic warlords and their Western appeasers had no problem accepting infidel dollars, weapons and being ran by ifidel Americans, and apostate unbeleiver, the Chinese during Soviet invasion. But now-- suddenly-- it is problem for the brave defenders of Righteous Caliphate and their Westerns appeasers.

P.S.
Many Afghans NOW are supportive of the coalition efforts of preventing the return of Talib Dark Ages.
And the West and Chinese and Pakistanis and Arabs owe it to them to build what they worked so hard to destroy over the last 30 years.
12:16 PM on 04/19/2010
GOOD MORNING!!! MY FELLOW HOMO SAPIENS WHICH MEANS THE SPECIES WHO IS WISE.
By now both the Iraqis and the Afgans really, really do want America's military out of their lands since they have come to realize that more unarmed innocent civilians are getting slaughtered and maimed then those in the Taliband.
Why the HELL!!! is this country still continuing these insane, stupid wars that continue to cost so many innocent lives and cost the American taxpayers 500 billion a year???!!!
Americans should ask this question; "How would they feel if foreign troops were using bombs, bullets and gun ships to slaughter and maim their sons, daughters, moms, dads, sisters and brothers???!!!
And would you become a terrorist to avenge the slaughtering and maiming of your family???!!!!
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
patches12
11:39 AM on 04/19/2010
This war is a tar pit hiding within quick sand. The left ranted about Iraq being the "next Vietnam" when Bush was president.. now Obama, who campaigned on escalating Afhganistan, did escalate it and we are in a REAL MESS.

Bush was beaten up daily fore being a war mongering, oil greedy, war criminal, but somehow, when its a Dem in the WH, the illegalities, collateral damage and dead are not blamed on him. the vanguard of freedom, the watchdog press, has become a WH lapdog!
09:12 PM on 04/18/2010
Mr. Barber, I agree with you, but this country has long ago decided that it's profitable to wage war and occupation. At least it's profitable for a few. The questions I always ask is , "what does winning look like?" and "define winning" in these types of wars. Does this country exterminate everyone there or does Bill Gates build the worlds largest factory in Kabul and puts everyone to work for big money. I think you fight wars where there is something to lose or gain, there is nothing to gain in the deserts of Afghanistan. This place isn't loaded with great warriors, it's just one giant money pit.
06:00 PM on 04/18/2010
the terrorists don't care what country they plan their attacks from, America cannot simply bomb it's way to freedom.. It will never happen
03:13 PM on 04/18/2010
Afghanistan is indeed a deep whole into which we have tread. Will we do the same in Iran?

As I listen to conversations about the issue of Iran's nuclear program, I rarely hear of anyone opposed to the idea of a preventive war against Iran if Iran were eventually to develop nuclear weapons for their arsenal. So it would appear that those who think like me are still in the very small minority when it comes to this issue of preventive war.

I don't mean to minimize the threat that places like Iran and North Korea could be with the ability to use weapons of mass destruction. But our history with the Soviet Union shows to me that there are other avenues available to deal with nations like Iran and that if a war is inevitable with a country like Iran, let them give us actual cause, as the attack on Pearl Harbor gave us cause to enter World War Two. If war with Iran is to happen, let Iran be the instigator of the war. And in the meantime, maybe, just maybe, our conflict with Iran will play out in the same way that our conflict with the Soviet Union played out. If America has to go to war, our history has shown us that we will be ready and woe to those who attack us. But until that attack, let us resist the expense of the lives of our courageous soldiers through the use of a preventive war.
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Andre Fomine
ORIENTAL REVIEW Project Pioneer
05:50 AM on 04/18/2010
Meanwhile another ‘Afghanistan’ is being created few hundred miles to the north: http://orientalreview.org/2010/04/18/kyrgyzstan-destined-to-become-another-narco-state/
So who is the real mastermind behind the chaos in Central Asia?
Rantibus
Cogito, Ergo Rant
12:08 AM on 04/18/2010
One last comment - the idea that Afghanistan is not a tribal nation is absurd. The nation consists of regions ruled by tribal leaders and warlords that consist of but not restricted to the:
Pashtun, Wardak, Jaji, Tani, Jadran, Mangal, Kuchghiani, Safi, Mohmand, Shinwari, Tajik, Uzbek, Turkman, Nuristani and Baluch. And that does not even begin to address religious and lingusitic subgroups. The PM of Afghanistan is, for all practical intents and purposes (insofar as his authority has puissance) the mayor of Kabul.
I have personal experience as a soldier in two wars of this nature and I can tell you, from my own blood and the blood of my men, that fighting this nature of engagement is like attempting to nail fog to the wall.
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Dolmance
10:53 PM on 04/17/2010
We don't have to conquer Afghanistan. All we have to do is kill Taliban and that's like saving pennies. After awhile it really starts to add up.
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therealist2000
The day We the People bring down Corporate America
10:14 PM on 04/17/2010
Well, Prof. Barber certainly put a sound list of reason for not attacking Afghanistan....but it leaves out a few critical points. Here they are:

1) The United States is a colonial/imperialist power...in this role it cannot retreat from Afghaninstan because it will look like a defeat to our enemies and weakness to our friends.

2) The American system of government is not democratic....so if there is no democracy at home, it is not likely to be in position to bring democracy abroad...what we have here is power politics and exercising power shows that our friends can rely on us and our enemies to fear us....Afghanistan has become a power case than fighting terrorism case.

3) The American Military-Industrial Complex and Corporate America feed conflict. Should America stop starting and provoking wars around the world...who will feed the machine/corporation?

4) Since America has been raised to become an imperial power, it cannot fall off the imperial throne now and let other competing powers Ascend to the Purple.

I hope I added a few extra elements left out from the Establishment thinking of Prof. Barber. We sometimes need to study the unofficial version of American development than the official version endorsed by Prof. Barber.
08:43 PM on 04/17/2010
I seriously doubt the clowns who decided to fight a war in Afghanistan (as opposed to killing Bin Ladin and getting the hell out) forgot any history. Saying someone "forgot" something assumes they knew it in the first place.
08:49 PM on 04/17/2010
Not to worry. Many here are learing the "new" history where many things just didn't happen at all. Like the writing of the Constitution. Nathan Hale. Viet Nam. The Holocaust. when they tell you often enough, you will become true believers.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Bloggerrogr
Fired Up - Ready To Go!
08:37 PM on 04/17/2010
#17; Tribalism is the antithesis of civilization. Afghanistan is a tribalistic hunk of real estate, nothing more, nothing less, described more by the boundaries of it's neighbors than anything else.
Someone left out Alexander the Great. He failed also.

FWIW
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09:04 PM on 04/17/2010
Alexander was mired for years in the same situation. He got some stability by marrying the daughter of one of the bigger tribal leaders, declared "victory", and got out with his army demoralized and depleted.
Maybe we should try some strategic marriages!
09:14 PM on 04/17/2010
I'm pretty sure I heard something about Karzai being married to the ones who started this wedding march. I don't know what the current gang thinks they are gonna accomplish with the opposition being married to the, uh... opposition.
11:41 AM on 04/18/2010
I am really sick and tired of ignorance passing for political discourse.

Alexander the Great DID NOT FAIL IN AFGHANISTAN.

He left behind the Greco Bactrian Empire. That lasted longer than the United States of America.

Why do you think he is known as the GREAT.

Because he did not lose a battle.

Jeez.