Much has been made lately of Mitt Romney's tax returns and his effective tax rate. Is it fair that Mitt pays an effective tax rate of 13.9%, while Warren Buffett's secretary pays double that rate (we still have not seen her return, however)?
We currently have a capital gains tax here in America. Many countries like Argentina, Egypt, Hong Kong, India, Iran, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Russia, Singapore, Switzerland, Thailand, Turkey, etc. do not have any capital gains tax. Our top tax rate is 15% on capital gains here at home.
By all accounts, Mitt Romney has paid the legal taxes due on the money he has earned. He has not broken any laws. He has not been dishonest. He has paid the taxes due on the money he has earned under the current tax code. It's hard to question his honesty and integrity.
Now, if you want to change the tax code, then that is a whole other debate. It is not fair to resent Mr. Romney for paying what was legal and honest under the current code. I have many clients that have invested their money into municipal bonds, so that they can derive income from their investments. They pay NO federal or state taxes on this income. Many of them have an effective tax rate of zero. Is this fair? Is investing in sewers and roads somehow nobler than investing in businesses? Why should we give them such a tax advantage?
Should we resent Mr. Romney for how much money he makes? I don't resent how much Albert Pujols makes when he steps into the batter's box against my favorite team. I don't resent Tim Lincicum's take home pay, when he takes the mound against my San Diego Padres. Nor do I resent how much Johnny Depp gets paid for one of his movies. These folks have become the best at what they do, and there should be no limit as to how much they can make.
How about Mitt Romney's charitable contributions? Should we resent the fact that he pays a ten-percent tithe to his church? Last time I looked Malachi was the last chapter in the Old Testament. It seems to me that Jews, Christians, and Mormons alike, recognize the Old Testament as a canon of scripture.
Was it not Malachi who said, "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse...and prove me now herewith...if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it." I have found this to be a true principle in my own life. I think that you have seen this principle manifest itself in the life of Mitt Romney.
Furthermore, I submit to you that Mr. Romney counts his real blessings in life as the great family that stands behind him at many of his appearances, and not the monetary treasures that he will have to leave behind some day.
What about the organization that Mitt gives most of his charitable contributions to, the LDS church? Do its leaders live lavish lifestyles and use the money recklessly. The LDS church has no paid ministry, everyone is a volunteer. The church maintains warehouses full of basic needs and is ready at a moment's notice to deliver aid to those in need all over the world. In addition to this, the church has no debt.
Maybe our government can learn something from Mitt Romney and the Mormons.
Follow Bill Gunderson on Twitter: www.twitter.com/@billgunderson
Barbara Dobkin: How Do the Candidates Give?
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The Mormons? You mean yourself, don't you? You're not an unprejudiced source.
No thanks. We already have enough problems with leaders who refuse to disclose what they're up to.
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The prophet, apostles and general authorities receive compensation. Please don't twist the truth about your church. We don't have to be members to know what's going on. As a non-member, I read what I please and make up my own mind accordingly. When I have a question about Mormonism, the last person I'm looking for is an indoctrinated member. I already know that story.
If you're honestly curious, do some honest research and check out the critics as well as the supporters. It's starting to get a little silly when you demand sources as proof from me while you're perfectly capable of your own research. All I did was leak the information in a tiny way. The tsunami has already passed through.
Try also here:
http://mormoncurtain.com/topic_generalauthorities.html
http://mormonchurch.com/53/does-the-church-have-a-paid-clergy
http://www.mrm.org/paid-ministry
http://jenny-evans.suite101.com/lds-general-authorities-and-living-allowances-a284142
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Perhaps not, but I can withhold my vote and I'll feel no resentment toward Romney at all. It's Romney's resentment that keeps making its appearance.
Ummm....Not quite.
1. General Authorities of the LDS church ARE paid. And rather generously.
2. The church does maintain storehouses. But its contributions to humanitarian relief are pathetic. By its own figures it donated less than $4 per member per year. Walmart gives more.
3. The LDS church refuses to open its own finances to even its own members.
And if Tanya actually has numbers saying the church donated $4 per member per year to disasters, remember that's $100M. Really, if you've ever been to any kind of disaster, you know that the LDS, Catholic, and Islamic humanitarian arms are as big as the Red Cross there, and are generally a lot more willing to drive into the fire (while the government waits a week for the levies to stabilize before sending aid.) Still, as both StephiJ and Tanya said, Tanya would have no such records.
Daymon Smith (who worked in the Church Office Building) wrote a detailed book on how church finances work: "The Book of Mammon."
Here are other on-line sources:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/salary/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_generalauthorities.html
http://mormonthink.com/tithing.htm#salary
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/paidclergy.htm
We came across all this as my spouse and I were seriously investigating the Mormon church. Our good Mormon friends (who introduced us to the missionaries) were surprised too.
And help me, "mrcolj" with the "gainsaying" comment. What am I to gain. I am posting facts I learned. How is that "gainsaying"?
As for the LDS church's sad spending on humanitarian aid, I stand by my comment.
In Jan. 2006, from the Church PR department, (Deseret News Publishing Company): Edgley said that since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries. That averages to 37.5 million per year or about $3-$4 per Mormon member went to the poor. Do the math.
Mind you the LDS church is spending $4 billion on a shopping mall. I wonder what another $4 billion would do to help the poor.
"$4 per member" is an over simplification of the humanitarian aid the church gives out on a regular basis.
And the fact is, if the Mormon church opened its financial books to even its members, there might be a better site picture of where their money goes. But they refuse to do so. One wonders why (but not really).
Except that Mitt was among those lobbying against changing that tax code (a GOP led initiative) several years ago. I would say it's pretty fair to resent someone making boatloads of cash when they tend to use that cash to lobby Washington so they can make even more cash while the rest of us have our relative burdens increased.
What, now you're mad that I won? Well, you certainly can't complain, I played exactly by the rules, just look here at the rulebook, it's phrased just right-- huh? You're complaining that just because I HELPED WRITE the rules, that somehow I may have rigged the game in my favor? (Like when I lobbied to get that 25% rate changed to a 15% rate?) Ridiculous! You're just jealous I won!
Point is: we don't get why poor people complain about rich people's tax rates-- poor people have the exact same opportunity to hire lobbyists, promise millions to campaigns, etc., that rich people do! Don't like it, poor people? Then just hire lobbyists like we do! Stop being stingy with your millions, poor folk! (After all -- the money you pay to lobbyists, or "donate" to churches that apply political pressure in your favor, will come back to you eventually, believe me.)
and if the mormon rule is to tithe 10% and that is all romney has provided to charity, then great, he is a good mormon; but that does not make him a charitable person
maybe he just doesn't want to be excommunicated....
let's see the rest of his tax returns
Biden, on the other hand, donates practically nothing. So you have a point there. But I completely disagree that this is remotely close to a Liberal/Conservative divide.
Almost all of the general authorities are wealthy white men, so it's obvious God loves wealthy white men....:)
Daymon Smith (who worked in the Church Office Building) wrote a detailed book on how church finances work: "The Book of Mammon."
Here are other on-line sources:
http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/salary/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_generalauthorities.html
http://mormonthink.com/tithing.htm#salary
http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/paidclergy.htm
We came across all this as my spouse and I were seriously investigating the Mormon church. Our good Mormon friends (who introduced us to the missionaries) were surprised too.
As for the LDS church's sad spending on humanitarian aid, in Jan. 2006, from the Church PR department, (Deseret News Publishing Company): Mr. Edgley said that since 1984, the LDS Church has donated nearly $750 million in cash and goods to people in need in more than 150 countries. That averages to 37.5 million per year or about $3-$4 per Mormon member went to the poor. Do the math.
Mind you the LDS church is spending $4 billion on a shopping mall. I wonder what another $4 billion would do to help the poor.
Mormons make sure their humanitarian efforts generate praise for themselves by giving volunteers yellow LDS-labeled shirts. They stop short of saying "...and I am a MORMON!" Here's the truth: A letter was recently sent from Salt Lake to all bishops instructing them to tell members facing foreclosure or loss of employment not to expect any help from the church-- turn to family and each other.
Some members may be eligible for food assistance if they are deemed "worthy." Local discretion is used and let me tell you what this feels like. One weekend I received a phone call from one of my teenage children from a truck stop in Arizona. He had been accidentally stranded with no money and no way to get home. I was an active Mormon at the time so I called the closest ward (parish) and asked for help. The bishop denied my request and told me nothing could be done until Monday because my worthiness and activity level could only be verified on a weekday. I was horrified that my own church cared so little for the welfare of ANY child stranded without money/food.
A higher standard? We exmormons call Mormon charity claims corporate "fruits of the spirit"--a bureaucratic counterfeit of Christian compassion.
I do resent sports figures who demand such high pay (and those who allow such pay) that I can no longer afford to take my family to a single game.
And the church may do "good works" but they also bankroll out of state elections that take basic civil rights from tax paying citizens. In fact Romney gave a huge chunk of money to the church right when they were waging a war of hatred and intolerance against my fellow Californians.
I'm not rich but I'm for low taxes because I believe don't believe I am entitled to someone else's money.
As an economist, I believe Bill Gates investing $10 will benefit the country more than giving it to the government. Clearly, we need some tax revenue but my feelings on taxes are based 100% on balance between investment and taxes and 0% on a dreamed up notion of fairness.
If you take economics 101, the first thing you learn is that trade is not a zero sum game. Both people can benefit. Just because Bill Gates made $60B doesn't mean he did it at the expense of someone else. Look at the Robinson and Friday palm leaves and coconut analysis. Robinson can produce more coconuts and palm leaves than Friday but both can still benefit from trading.
If you don't understand this, you will always feel victimized.