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Bill Scher

Bill Scher

Posted: June 27, 2008 10:38 AM

Obama and Telecom Immunity: The Importance of Pushing


(Fellow HuffPosters Logan Nakyanzi Pollard and Jason Rosenbaum have shared their thoughts on the meaning of Sen. Barack Obama's decision to support the latest FISA bill. Below is my addition to the conversation, originally posted at the Campaign for America's Future blog.)

My Campaign for America's Future colleague Isaiah Poole urged Sen. Barack Obama to take the lead in fighting immunity for telecom companies that may have helped the Bush administration break surveillance laws.

I do not have high expectations.

It appears quite clear to me, from Obama's recent statement on the new surveillance bill, that he is not interested in letting this bill become a flashpoint of disagreement between himself and his presidential rival Sen. John McCain. So he is expressing reluctant support of the overall bill, he will likely vote for an amendment stripping telecom immunity, the amendment will likely fail, and the overall bill will become law.

It will be a disappointing outcome. But there are worthwhile lessons to take, as progressives prepare for a possible Obama presidency.

It's a reminder that Obama is a politician. Not in either a negative or positive sense. It's just a plain fact.

Which means that we cannot sit back and assume he, or anyone else that may become president, will simply do what we like all the time. We will always have to push.

On telecom immunity, prominent liberal bloggers joined civil libertarian organizations and pushed their hearts out. But the hard fact remains that the push did not succeed in turning intense opposition into broad opposition.

No one in the netroots deserves blame for that. It was extremely difficult to draw attention to an abuse of power issue, when most voters see economic issues more directly impacting their lives. (And the traditional media's dismissal of the telecom immunity issue didn't help.)

In turn, Obama and other Democrats don't have evidence that elevating this issue -- potentially crowding out differences on the economy, gas prices and Iraq -- is something that enough people want to make it politically worthwhile.

Is it reason to be disappointed? Yes. Is it reason to feel that those politicians cannot be presumed to always act on progressive principles? Yes.

But it's not a reason to believe grassroots voices won't be heard or can't have a major impact.

Obama -- along with former rivals John Edwards and Sen. Hillary Clinton -- was successfully pushed to adopt bolder positions on health care and global warming than Democratic politicians in the recent past. Why? Because progressives pushed, and pushed well.

When we push well, and show that there is broader public support for ideas too bold for narrow-minded Beltway elites to accept, that's when we move our nation forward.

And there is, and will be, a need to keep pushing.

For example, while Obama is calling for greater public investment in infrastructure, his proposal of $60 billion in infrastructure investment over 10 years pales in comparison to the challenge we face. My colleague Eric Lotke recently noted that our infrastructure needs $1.6 trillion to get up to snuff. Robert Borosage lamented that Obama's specific proposal "won't build many bridges, much less seed modern transit."

Obama calls for more in the area of clean energy and energy-efficiency: $150 billion over 10 years. But the Apollo Alliance reports says we need twice that amount to rapidly transition to a clean energy economy a decade from now.

There are five months left to build a crystal clear mandate that will set the table for progressive change no matter who gets elected. It's indisputable that the desire to change from eight years of failed conservatism is strong across America. But there is still more work to do to define what real change looks like.

So if there anything to take from Obama's telecom immunity move, it's that the need to push the parameters of acceptable debate is as critical and urgent as ever.

Follow Bill Scher on Twitter: www.twitter.com/billscher

(Fellow HuffPosters Logan Nakyanzi Pollard and Jason Rosenbaum have shared their thoughts on the meaning of Sen. Barack Obama's decision to support the latest FISA bill. Below is my addition to the co...
(Fellow HuffPosters Logan Nakyanzi Pollard and Jason Rosenbaum have shared their thoughts on the meaning of Sen. Barack Obama's decision to support the latest FISA bill. Below is my addition to the co...
 
 
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01:40 PM on 06/29/2008
Bill is right, this pressure is necessary to push change. Change isn't going to come from one man and as Obama always says 'we have to work together for change'.

My Drinking Liberally chapter recently hosted David Sirota, whose new book "The Uprising: An Unauthorized Tour of The Populist Revolt Scaring Wall Street and Washington". What his research has shown him is that the left makes the mistake of throwing all of their support for a candidate while the right throws their efforts towards issues and goals. I don't think it's any mystery who has been more successful having their issues paid attention to the last 25 years: unions are struggling, science has been put on the defensive, anti-gay marriage laws have been passed, reproductive choice has been severely limited...etc.

The left needs to force their candidates to take their side on the issues, not just support them without condition and hope they do the right thing. That is why I can and should vehemently disagree with Obama on caving on FISA and use the leverage of my money, volunteering time and vote to pressure him to do the right thing.
04:02 AM on 06/29/2008
Republicans have always won presidential elections based on wedge issues such as gay-marriage etc. Republican Party is in a mess and they are scouring every corner, looking for hotbotton issue to use to defeat Democrats in the presidential election. Which other weapon would be more potent than national security issues. People in the heartland want to elect a president that will protect them first and foremost. Those so called “Progressives” cannot even read inbetween the lines to see how Senator Obama has outmanouvered Republicans by denying them potent campaign issues to run on.

Ask yourself why Republicans are hammaring Obama for rejecting public financing for the general election. They know that with enormous resources, Obama could win the presidency and impact downstream elections that will give Democrats clear majority seats in the legislative houses. Without such mandate, all talks about progressive agendas such as universal healthcare is a mere optical delusion of consciousness. It is bizzarre to see some so called progressives joining forces with Republicans to undermine Obama’s credibility by stigmatizing him as flip-flopper.
10:17 AM on 06/29/2008
I've debunked this myth below... read some other opinions before parroting the party line.
04:02 AM on 06/29/2008
It is very clear why Democrats have been losing presidential elections. It is due to self-destructive promptings in circular firing squad. The temperament of time favors Democrats to win the White House if they play their cards very well. Before a person appropriates power, that person must first get custody of such power. For Democrats to get legislative power to make progressive agendas to happen, it requires wining majority seats in the legislative houses; it is not winning simply majority seats. For Democrats to exercise executive power, they must first win the White House.
10:18 AM on 06/29/2008
Irrelevant. This only flies if voting for FISA with immunity actually helps Obama gain voters. It doesn't . I've debunked the myths about this bill below.
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02:20 PM on 06/29/2008
The last Democrat to lose a presidential election was Kerry who fell prey to letting the Republicans frame the issue and push him towards the center. It made him look weak and unprincipled. It earned him the label 'flip-flopper'. Obama doing the same is falling for the old GOP trap of accepting their frames and having to explain or backtrack on your words and positions during the primary. As Karl Rove always says "If you're explaining, you're losing". Obama is going the way of Kerry by caving to the pressure to be a "centrist" on this issue.

When Bill Clinton ran for office he ran as a progressive populist and didn't change his tack just because Republicans picked on him. Clinton attacked their frames, their policies and turned it on them. Obama is not attacking or debunking their policies and frames. He's accepting them, that's a problem. The big joke in the GOP right now is that next Obama is going to change his mind on Iraq. That's a big problem. They've been successful at painting him as an unknown, a Muslim, inexperienced...adding untrustworthy to the list by caving on FISA was unnecessary and a huge mistake.
06:25 PM on 06/28/2008
There some unwritten rules in politics. If the USA's establishment, aka power elite, funds your campaign, you do their bidding at all times; they own you. BHO is a quick study.
02:18 PM on 06/28/2008
Myth #6: Obama is "moving to the center" on this and other issues.

The propaganda continues! Obama is not "moving to the center," he is MOVING TO THE FAR RIGHT. These positions are NOT centrist:

1) Granting immunity to lawbreakers
2) Granting sweeping new spying powers to the executive branch
3) Capital punishment for child rapists
4) Opposition to gun control

These are far right positions, and we need to acknowledge it. Every time someone makes the claim that Obama is "moving to the center," it implies he is moving away from the lefty "fringe" as opposed to the truth of the matter, which is he's moving away from the overwhelming majority of U.S. citizens in deference to the right wing which currently rules our government and news media.
07:17 AM on 06/29/2008
I sure hope you have this simple explanation saved somewhere so you can keep posting and re-posting it on Web sites everywhere. Perhaps this is what it will take to educate the Public and foment the kind of outrage that is needed to sway the final vote.
Thank you.....you are doing a great public service
12:09 PM on 06/28/2008
More Myths:

Myth #4: At least this bill returns oversight to FISA!
How this bill is any different than the last FISA bill? Did the last FISA bill not make it perfectly clear that the President needed a warrant to spy? Yes, it did. Did the President IGNORE that provision? Yes, he did. Was he held accountable? No, he wasn't. So, please tell me why he should suddenly feel compelled to adhere to the provisions in the NEW FISA bill? Because the gutless Democrats REALLY want him to? THIS time?

It's simple, if you want someone to obey the law, you ENFORCE the law. How do you do that in this case? Impeachment. No? Okay, then at least allow the civil suits to go forward, so we can reveal what actually happened, which laws were broken and by whom. No? Okay, well say goodbye to your 4th amendment rights.

Myth #5: Obama has a plan to conduct CRIMINAL inverstigations AFTER he gets elected!
In order to believe that Obama is actually going to proceed with criminal investigations in 2009, you must have:

a) been born yesterday, and
b) arrived at this blog on the back of a turnip truck

Do you really believe that? Let's look at some recent history, shall we? Remember 2006? Vote democrat if you want to end the war! Vote democrat if you want accountability!

Yeah, that worked out really well. Now, I have this really great bridge in Brooklyn that I'm selling... you interested?
12:03 PM on 06/28/2008
So many myths!

Myth #1: the FISA debate is a "progressive" issue.
If defending the 4th amendment and holding corrupt officials accountable are "progressive" ideas, then we may as well start goose-stepping down Main Street, because we no longer live in a democracy.

Myth#2: Obama is being "pragmatic," looking to avoid being called "soft on terrorism":
Firstly, we must acknowledge his real reason for backing this bill. He ISN'T backing this bill because it's politically popular (it isn't), he's backing it because it protects corrupt democrats, who were knee deep in the 4th amendment violations.

But speaking to the idea that he needs to vote for this bill to avoid being labeled "soft," are you telling me that Obama couldn't make a strong case passing the same bill, only without telecom immunity? You don't think he could ask the obvious question; if these provisions are so important, then you wouldn't deny them merely to give immunity to a few phone companies, right? Protect phone companies at the expense of national security? You don't think Obama could win that argument with the public? Who are overwhelmingly behind those sentiments already?

Myth #3: Obama is only one Senator, what could he do all by himself? After all, the dems are caving across the board, right?
Are you telling me that a Democratic controlled Senate would OVERRIDE a filibuster by their own Presidential nominee, in an election year? Just to protect telecom companies who spied on their constituents?
07:13 AM on 06/29/2008
You so smart....you must be Glenn Greenwald. I LOVE your logic and your correctness. Voters must keep hearing this message over and over since the Media and Press in general are full of Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emanuel spin. I especially love that you point out that there are a whole lot of Dirty Democrats who are trying to cover their own asses in this. THAT is what the Dems get out of the Deal. BUSHCO does n't want any of his own dirty laundry to come out in testimony or discovery from Telecom lauwsuits. THAT is what BUSHCO gets out of it. All the other horse puckey you hear about terrorists and such is just camoflauge.
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02:24 PM on 06/29/2008
Senator Jay Rockefeller has received $50,000.00 in campaign donations since 2007 from employees of Verizon and AT&T.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/10/dem-pushing-spy.html

Yeah, the Dems are really going to "fix" the FISA law once Obama is Prez. My ass.
08:12 AM on 06/28/2008
I too wished Obama had stuck to his guns on this issue, but I have to admit, Obama is a great strategist, and we can't risk McCain gaining momentum because of the media and the Republicans calling Obama weak on National Security for voting against the bill. What if there were an attack, or a Bin Laden video popping up like with Kerry after a NO-Vote from Obama... ?

I have read many articles and comments claiming that doing what was "right" - sticking to the principle and punishing telecoms for their caving to the administration in this case was more important than winning the election in November. These people must be completely out of their minds!

Yes, telecoms wont get prosecuted in CIVIL COURT for their caving in to the Administration's requests, this is true. But the bill does fix the problem by taking that power away from the administration - the real crux of the issue. Fascism is not coming because of the lack of prosecution... that slope would be slipped on if we didn't fix the problem. This is not the case.

Its one thing to be accused of being "elite" and another of actually being so elite that you don't know whos vote you are trying to get!

I have to remind myself always that there will be many tough calls to be made, and I am going to have to have patience and know that not every battle I want won will happen that way.
06:36 PM on 06/27/2008
Obama.....A politician? Get Out! He had me convinced he was a dentist!

Come on guys! I'm not fretting. Obama knows the game better than any of us here.

It seems a lot of his supporters fell for his critics claim that he was naive and inexperienced. After listening to him about any subject whether you agree with him or not, he has great analytical skills. He is very well informed about how "stuff works."

Not only is he a politician but he is also Human. And before you judge him or any other candidate, yes McCain too, think about what you have done and seen in your own lives. This goes for Clinton also.

Say what you want about any of them, nobody here would have the guts and intelligence to do what they do everyday.
05:43 PM on 06/27/2008
Now that the FISA bill has been postponed until next month, us "progressives" need to continue to push to have the telecom immunity stripped from this bill. I called up my Representative and one of my Senators and thanked them for their opposition to this bill, (rewarding good behavior), and called and wrote my other Senator to urge her to also support stripping that provision out of the bill.

I also wrote an email to Senators Dodd and Feingold and told them that there are many Democrats out there that support them in their attempts at a filibuster.

Now that we have our second amendment rights guaranteed, let's restore our fourth amendment rights as well.
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mosh
04:52 PM on 06/27/2008
Putting aside the larger issue - that it is a Senator's duty to uphold the Constitution - I will repeat an earlier comment - that this abysmal, unprincipled vote actually weakens Obama on national security.

Once again Obama is allowing the republicans to set the agenda. He is playing their game, by their rules and, if history is any indicator, he can't win. I thought he was going to make McCain debate him on his own terms, from a platform of the highest moral integrity. This vote, while fundamentally reprehensible, is politically stupid as well. Disappointing on every level.
11:05 PM on 06/27/2008
Run tell dat, Mosh. It's almost like these authors are grief counselors pampering our frail and broken egos. Horse hockey. Here's the deal, BarryO, if you drop the ball- I go home. You started out with a bang, got us all bloodied up fighting for you, and then you lie about supporting no Telco immunity. See where I'm going with this? Guess :)
08:34 AM on 06/28/2008
:P
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XME
Life is hard. After all, it kills you.
12:32 AM on 06/28/2008
Here's a thought...maybe he's just NOT allowing Democrats to set his agenda any more than he's allowing Republicans to.
02:05 PM on 06/27/2008
, " ...Obama and other Democrats don't have enough evidence that elevating this issue" (FISA amendments) is something enough people want to make it politically worthwhile." Patriotism reduced to the lowest possible common demoninator - whether defending the Constitution is "politically worthwhile".

A few samplings from JFK's Profiles in Courage, a godsend in the moments when hope seems most elusive. Sen. Daniel Webster:- 'There is one sort of inconsistency that is culpable: it is the inconsistency between a man's conviction and his vote, between his conscience and his conduct." Sen. George Norris: "I would rather go down to my political grave with a clear conscience than ride in the chariot of victory as a Congressional stool pigeon". The belated public vindication of Edmund Ross: "He acted for his conscience and with a lofty patriotism, regardless of what he knew must be the ruinous consequences to himself. HE ACTED RIGHT." Sen. Tyler: "The man of today gives place to a man of tomorrow, and the idols which one set worships, the next destroys. The only object of my political worship shall be the Constitution... I regard as nothing any position or office WHICH MUST BE ATTAINED OR HELD AT THE SACRIFICE OF HONOR."

Infrastrastructure, environment, energy, - important issues. Protection of the Constitution
trumps them all. Pity those who mimic Scarlatt O'Hara that we'll think about the ramifications of the FISA amendments on the 4th Amendment 'tomorrow', because once they became law,
tomorrow will not be just 'another day'.
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06:35 PM on 06/27/2008
Excellent and important post. The issue at hand could not have been better said. Kudos.
08:36 AM on 06/28/2008
One of the finest posts? Mostly quotes taken from someone else.

I would rather compromise than have 4-8 years of Republicans - you are in the minority my friends!
11:13 PM on 06/27/2008
One of the finest posts I've read in some time. Comments, like this, should be framed and hung in Arianna's office. I am astounded that a common blogger has more patriotism in their fingertips that the crooks, apologists, AND AUTHORS do in their entire souls. Stupendous post. Arianna should give YOU a column! Best of luck in your life.
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jmpurser
See My micro-bio
12:54 PM on 06/27/2008
Another Obama victory: He's politically astute enough not to stand up and be counted when it matters.

Why was it we didn't want Hillary?
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mosh
04:46 PM on 06/27/2008
Btw, where does Hillary stand on this vote?
08:37 AM on 06/28/2008
A poster from another article found a quote made by Hillary in February and she feels the same way as Obama does.
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02:28 PM on 06/29/2008
Her office says that she is against this FISA bill, but she was conspicuously absent at the vote.
11:06 AM on 06/27/2008
Once again, this article is a good example of how to disagree with our candidate without actively destroying his chances for winning. I would much rather do battle with a progressive leaning president over issues on which we disagree than do battle with a conservative president who thinks fundamentally and entirely differently about everything I believe.

It makes no sense for prominent bloggers and thousands of commenters to help McCain just because they disagree with Obama.
12:14 PM on 06/27/2008
I agree as well, you don't have to dump your candidate if you don't agree with all of their issues, unless this is the one issue you won't budge on then i see why you would. like this post says,i like his positions on healthcare, global warming, alternative fuels. the only thing i have conflict with is that i know he has plans for infrastructure and the and clean energy, what this person missed is Obama's figures are a start at any time they can be increased, but you have to start some where. Considering we are doing nothing, this is a good start and i believe he is commited to this, if they tell him we need an adittional 60million dollars for infrastructure projects i believe he will ablige, maybe at this point this is all we can afford right now, in case people have missed it we are now in extreme debt, so you have to start out slow and build upon that
01:17 PM on 06/27/2008
" . . . he is not interested in letting this bill become a flashpoint of disagreement between himself and his presidential rival Sen. John McCain."

Flashpoint? Telecoms get immunity from crimes committed against the citizens of our country, and someone's worried McCain will scream bloody murder? Idiotic nonsense, I say. This is about slathering over the huge power shift that continues government control of the masses. Not a very progressive trait, is it?
10:58 AM on 06/27/2008
As we have all seen, the president's power is now total. He can overrule congress, ignore and break laws, declare war, imprison citizens forever, bury citizens alive, declare national martial law, listen in on any conversation anywhere, open mail, read email, bug your house, search your house with no warrant, grant immunity, set aside Supreme Court rulings, and unilaterally declare parts of the constitution unconstitutional. The fact that Obama is 'reluctant' to infringe on these 'powers' says to me that he is just as corrupt as GWB if not more so. He is a fraud. He is an authoritarian. He does not get my vote if he does not join the fillibuster on telecom immunity. Campaigns are nothing but job interviews. He has said he would stand up to GWB. If he does not, he has lied on his application and should be sent packing.
12:17 PM on 06/27/2008
In case you missed it, the cloture motion to end the filibuster passed yesterday, by a vote of 80-15.
12:19 PM on 06/27/2008
for one where in the world are you getting this information, Even without the FISA bill the president does not have all those powers. and if you don't want to vote for Obama that is cool. you have that right and i'm not trying to convice you otherwise, but when you start say dumb stuff got to call you out. Your assertions are not true and if you haven't already (obviously i don't know) how about taking time out to stop reading opinons and read the actual bill, or factual information from a source who does not have their own agenda. i did and you would be suprised at the information they are not telling you