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If You Don't Want the Public Option, Get the Hell Out of the Way
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Canadian Healthcare, Health Care, Healthcare Reform, Mitch McConnell, Public Option, Sarah Palin, Single Payer, Tax Day Tea Parties, Tea Party, Universal Health Care,
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This past weekend, lost in the wall-to-wall Michael Jackson coverage and Sarah Palin goodbye-cruel-world nincompoopery, there was a second round of tea party protests.
They were easy to miss because nobody showed up. But if you happened to have been driving in the vicinity of an evil publicly-funded park, you might've seen two or three Republicans loitering around -- sitting there in the socialized grass, believing that a vigorous protest involves napping in lawn chairs.
While I spent a few moments of my holiday weekend revisiting the irony of anti-socialism protests taking place on socialized park land, it occurred to me that the proposed government-run public health insurance option probably won't cost nearly as much as the CBO is suggesting.
Because clearly there won't be any Republicans signing up for it.
I mean, no Republican would dare sign up for inexpensive, easily portable health insurance. Not when red, white and blue All American for-profit health insurance is available. After all, free market private health insurance will probably continue to be the more expensive option, so that must mean it's the finest insurance, right? Expensive equals good, no? (No. More on that presently.)
And of course none of the Republicans or Blue Dogs in Congress are covered by a government health insurance plan. Except for all of them.
Please explain, conservatives and wingnuts, why you wouldn't seriously consider switching to the public option if it turned out to be more affordable and portable from job to job -- not to mention the fact that you wouldn't be turned down for a preexisting condition; you wouldn't be randomly booted from the plan as soon as you needed it most; and you would never have to worry about health insurance coverage ever again. Employed or unemployed. Sick or healthy.
I find it hard to believe that you, Mr. and Mrs. Wingnut, would defiantly pay more for less reliable insurance if offered a better deal. To pay more for less would be outstandingly backwards. Palin backwards. "Quitter" equals "fighter" backwards.
The fact remains that the only downside to the public option is that it's just too awesome. We don't deserve anything that good. Simply put: it's Medicare, but for anyone who wants it. And this is somehow a nightmare scenario -- one that we must never be allowed to experience even though it would cost much less than our current system, it would cover everyone who wants it, and it would be accountable to the American people. This is somehow a terrible idea. Terrible to the private health insurance mafia, that is. They simply can't allow you to have an affordable public option because they need your financial support. Face it, $1.4 million a day to lobby members of Congress isn't cheap.
The "it's too awesome for your own good" argument was the one we heard from both Republicans and centrist Blue Dog Democrats for several months recently. But now it's back to the good old fashioned socialized-healthcare-is-awful frame, most notably trotted out by Republican minority leader and Deep Space Nine shapeshifter Mitch McConnell, who has been peppering his floor speeches with the tear-jerking story of the one person from Canada who doesn't like her free and universal healthcare.
Imagine that. Free. And this one person hates it so bad, you don't even know!
Too bad there's nothing free and universal in God's non-socialist America. Like roads, police protection, fire departments, public schools, and public parks where we can protest against public programs like funding for parks.
But Mitch McConnell says that in Canada people have to wait for a knee replacement. See now, if I'm getting a free knee replacement surgery without fear of being dropped by my health insurance carrier or having to run up credit card debt in order to cover the co-pay, the co-insurance and the deductible, I want my damn knee replacement yesterday.
Waiting eight weeks (the average wait time) for a free Canadian knee replacement surgery is eight weeks too long. In America, I can have my knee surgery over lunch, yes? Of course I have to pay more for such a convenience. And I'm participating in an enterprise that could easily screw me out of the coverage entirely. But I can have my surgery whenever I want it. (Actually, it's about a 21 day wait.)
We sometimes hear a similar argument from rednecks who outright refuse to own a "faggy" fuel efficient car even though they're more affordable in nearly every way. But, you know, maybe I'm wrong and the ability to haul a cord of wood and to disguise their impotence with an optical illusion of enormous genitalia is worth the extra cash they're borrowing from various credit card companies to pay for all of that Middle Eastern gasoline. It's this brand of ignorance and defiance that's holding us back in so many ways, be it in terms of healthcare or green industrial development or education. Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin and Fox News have convinced too many of us that "smart, free and affordable" is un-American while "oversized, unhealthy and expensive" is patriotic.
Yet people in Canada and Europe aren't dropping dead from a lack of affordable healthcare. They're being treated for the same illnesses we are, and with similar quality of care for approximately two-thirds the cost of our system.
But people are, in fact, dropping dead here due to a lack of affordable, reliable healthcare. They're being abandoned on the street. They're being denied coverage and care. They're going bankrupt and losing everything just because they had the bad luck of losing their job and then getting sick. And the Republicans are telling us that this is the best system ever, even though our infant mortality rate ranks 29th, our life expectancy ranks 42nd (so much for "pro life") and our healthcare spending is the highest among industrialized nations.
We have an opportunity to turn all of that around, though, with a strong public health insurance option. In fact, 70 percent of us want it. But if certain wingnuts and Republicans don't want affordable, guaranteed health insurance, then they don't have to sign up. They're welcome to continue to defiantly roll the dice with their private plans. And good luck with that, by the way. Just don't punish the rest of us with this self-defeating Palin-ish ignorance.
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Get it Cesca.
Superficial. I am quite familiar with the medical care in one of those countries with better longevity and infant mortality and which some people have held up as a model.. One of the best ER's in the country has running water and no cardiac monitor. The rest of the system is just as deficient. Be careful when you play with statistics. Waiting for a knee replacement is fine. Do you have any clue as to how many people are given pain medicine and told to go home and live with it.? There is a lot of hype in this. Good American care is the best. Distribution is uneven.
I used to live in Seattle, WA, where my wife and I paid nearly $1,000 a month for our insurance. Mine was Medicare + a Medigap policy; hers was a regular health insurance policy with a $5,000 deductible to make it more affordable.
When I retired at the end of 2007, we moved to Sapporo, Japan. I am 75. I pay $35.00 per year for my Japanese health insurance. That's not a typo, that's real. We can't afford to live in the U.S. because we can't afford the health insurance, or the overpriced medications we might have to take. (My wife takes a cholesterol medication, which costs next to nothing here; I take no medication.)
Something wrong with this picture? I've always thought so. So I'm totally on board with you on this issue. What we have in the U.S. is both embarrassing and disgusting...and people elsewhere think we're nuts.
George Polley
Sapporo, Japan
I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease in college, and needed surgery. My pre-existing condition meant that I didn't get accepted into the company plan of my first job. I was offered a private plan with premiums 50% higher than what a peer would pay, and it wouldn't even cover my chronic condition, known to recur for most sufferers. Later I started my own small business, my version of the American dream. I never had health insurance throughout my adult life in the States.
It was fortunate that I, too, moved to Japan in 2001, because since that time I had a massive recurrence of Crohn's. I've been hospitalized 3 times and had another surgery. I did well in Japan for my career field and I've been paying near the upper limit for the national health insurance option in Japan. Still, my premiums are half what I would pay in the States right now, and for far more comprehensive coverage. Government-sponsored health insurance in Japan saved me from what would have been certain bankruptcy in America. I still shudder to imagine how the scenario would have played out if I hadn't come here.
I've been planning to move back home, but that will depend on the success of reform efforts.
Isn't it amazing how your perception of America changes when you look at it from the outside?
lets make it a constitutional amendment ! and what does JOE the plumber have to say bout this!
I guess a lot of CON servatives will be moving out of the Country. A Government Insurance Option will be coming to this Country very soon. OOOHHH, I forgot. You will still have the option of choosing your over price Health Insurance. Until you get sick and they denied coverage under the excuse of "an existing condition" A condition which has caused many hard working citizen, people who live by the rules, paid their taxes. People who were depending on their Health Insurance. People who paid the monthly policy on time and just when they need it and by no fault of their own were denied coverage under that pretext. People who were force to take a second mortgage on their homes. People who were force to declare bankruptcy.
Despite phony protests from Republicans, the U.S. health insurance market exhibits two characteristics of a market failure: 1) certain markets (elderly and poor) are neither profitable nor well-served and 2) the market lacks sufficient competition.
To Republicans alarming the public about the imminent rationing of health care, I submit that any health care system rations care. The U.S. just does it indiscriminately and insufficiently. It’s irrefutable that we prescribe and pay for too much unnecessary health care. Let’s move beyond the debate about whether we need a public insurance option. We do. Let’s debate the most relevant and most difficult question: how should we pay for comprehensive health reform?
http://axisofreason.com/2009/07/13/us-private-health-insurance-classic-market-failure/
It's not "Socialism" when members of Congress have a free government-run health care plan... which they have had forever now... and which, I believe, they actually really really like... It is only when a large portion of the great unwashed masses wants the same thing that it is referred to as such... Sheesh....
So, what you're telling you're telling me is that approximately half of the American population can't read... or can't understand what they hear on television... or doesn't care... or is essentially stupid... otherwise, there would be no "debate" about the Public option...none... zero.
If it's good enough for Congress, it's good enough for us. (Our new rallying cry...)
The Health Care Industry is aggressively spending millions of dollars in lobbyist to influence how our elected officials vote. With such a big war chest at their disposal I would not be surprise if they are paying individual bloggers to inundate the Internet with their point of view. Which is," NO Public Option At Any Cost".
The reason why they are paying so much is they know that once the USA abandons its totally imoral "health care is a for-profit business" and not a "right of citizenship" they think they are in trouble.
Actually they won't be. Good businesses learn how to identify flaws and provide solutions to them. In Britain (where I am from) we have the same wait-for-ever problems of the Canadian health care system. Guess what? If this is a problem to you there is a myriad of chooses of private health care supplementary insurance packages that will move you to the head of the queue - for a fee of course.
So actually we have the best of both worlds. A single-payer system funded by tax revenues that means nobody can be denied essential health care services. For those who for whatever reason cannot wait for health care they can pay to speed up the process. The insurance companies are still doing fine!
Right so in order for me to get the same level of care I receive now I will have to pay more than the gov't sponsored care that my taxes will be paying for. So I then would have to pay for a private health care supplement? On top of that my taxes will go up...oh yeah I will be SAVING MONEY....
So why on earth would someone like me be in favor of this?
And no you don't have the best of both world (rarely can you have your cake and eat it too, hence the phrase). Maybe for those who earn next to nothing since they don't pay taxes anyhow...so of course they are for it since it is my sweat that is paying for it. And I am the selfish one?
For all of you saying "I Don't Want the Public Option and I WON'T Get the Hell Out of the Way"
I want to know why?
If you think you may have to pay $5 more a week in taxes to save the lives of over 18,000 people and that is too much, then how much, exactly are people's lives worth to you? What would you pay to save lives? 5 cents? 10 cents? 0?
If you think that you may have to wait a half an hour more in the doctors office to save families being ruined by health care costs and resulting 62% of bankrupts is too long? How much longer would you wait? 2 minutes? 15 minutes?
Most Americans say they are willing to pay more, even though it would be unnecessary with single payer, to make sure their fellow Americans are okay.
So even in that you are in the minority.
You know it is all fantasy. You are paying for the uninsured now.
And you all on the right should know that there is no such thing as a free lunch as your hero Milton Friedman said.
In the end even Friedman admitted that they rule of law [by governments] was an essential element of economic health as opposed to the governmentless anarchy proposed by so many of you.
Yeah OK buddy, $5 more a week. Why don't you wake up and realize that you can not possibly believe the price tag that any of these politicians claim. How is it just $5? How can you possibly claim that when congress and the president don't even know how they are going to pay for this.
You know why I say NO? Because what you don't understand is this "Give an inch they take a yard"
At some point you must say NO to new taxes or to raising taxes. Now maybe you don't care because you possibly earn under $30,000/year and it wouldn't matter to you one way or the other if taxes go up because people in that income bracket don't pay federal taxes anyway. So of course the answer is to tax those who do have it for "MY" sake.....And you accuse me of being selfish? Take from my sweat and the sweat of others for your sake. Give me a b r e a k.
But you have given private insurance an inch into your pocketbook and they have taken a mile! They have brought us THE MOST EXPENSIVE SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
But that is okay? You can just dump every penny you have until you have to declare bankruptcy into private care?
It isn't even logical what you say.
Both Sen. Sanders' S.703 and Rep. Conyers HR 676 include how to pay for it. Which will mean MORE money stays in the pockets of American. Under Conyers' plan a family of 4 with median income would pay 36% LESS for care than they do now.
How much tax are you paying? I'm quite sure I'm making more than you are. I paid US taxes last year on $146K of income. Top that.
The many people who need care have worked hard all their lives and paid taxes too so don't paint them as free loaders.
Many people with higher incomes and even real wealth, like Warren Buffet, are saying they'd gladly pay more to relieve some of the suffering in the US. And most Americans agree with them.
You are selfish.
Right... I have (part-time) earnings of $27,000 per year and I pay $4,800.00 in income/self-employment taxes... (Fortunately, I will be 65 in a couple of years and my debate will be over, as I WILL have government health care -- It's called "M-e-d-i-c-a-r-e"...
In the American heartland:
“Did the doctor tell you to put the pill in your POCKET or in your MOUTH?” asked my brother.
“It costs $30!” replied my dad. Our sick system makes him think of the costs before thinking of his own health.
“In order for your medicine to work it has to pass one big obstacle, your mouth!” I say in vane.
This same scenario is playing out everyday in millions of families across America. It is sad.
Universal single payer now!
Demand your Senators support Sen. Sanders’ S.703 and your representative support Rep. Conyers’ HR 676, the single payer public plans.
See Where Congress Stands and how to contact them here:
http://standwithdrdean.com/where_congress_stands
I simply cannot stand these pols anymore who extol the joys of the present "system" while they enjoy free, publicly-funded healthcare. I'm sooo sick of their arguments that, for example, rationing is sure to come. It's ALREADY HERE! I wonder if any of them were refused a reference to a specialist because an ignorant general practitioner decided she knew what was wrong with me despite me having two positive tests for Lyme disease. I had to drive 5 hrs roundtrip to see a doctor who actually treated me (I'm not sure if I'm getting better or not; the years of refusal to test me for Lyme may have complicated my ability to recover.
In any case. if the "free" market is sooo swell, why aren't they in it???
Benefit Changes for Congress:
If no public health care is enacted, congress must enact a law that strips members of congress of all public health care benefits and makes them unable to use Medicare or VA benefits if otherwise eligible.
Ideally only those who voted against public health care would be stripped of their benefits. .
If members of congress believe a public health care is “not good,” then relinquishing all their public benefits should be no sacrifice at all.
Problem is that politics in this country is a game for the rich. Most (not all) politicians are well enough off that they don't and haven't had the experience of making decisions about their health based on their bank balance.
Publicly funded campaigns are the only way we can get to a time where the most qualified people run for office rather than the most well funded.
Are you serious? YOU elect politicians and they then go to work in your state capital or Washington DC. Part of their compensation package is health insurance. What is wrong with that? Run for office or fins a job that offers benefits. If you lack the skills to find such a job then I suggest you go back to school, gain those skills, go get a job. It's that simple.
If it takes a few years to do so trust me before you know it your schooling will be done. Time flies when you are busy. If you lack the money to do so, EVERY person is entitled to a a stafford loan. Oh, you are too good for a student loan? Then you can apply for a Pell Grant or other Grants and need based scholarships. Please, the excuses for "I can't" don't fly with me.
your biggest problem as far as what you've written here so far is that you completely lack the ability to see outside your own circumstances. i couldn't make the case for a public option nearly as well as artemis so i'm not even going to try. but you, you keep writing and writing and you're not making your case any better by it, all you are accomplishing is to make yourself look incredibly greedy and selfish. (hint: it's the statements about poor people being lazy freeloaders, how changing your circumstances is simple, your insinuations that not being able to afford something is a character flaw, and your apparent unwillingness to help a fellow human being if it costs, well, anything.) in fact, your greed and selfishness are so over the top you sound like a troll who's just trying to get a rise out of people, and since i don't think you really are a troll i just thought you should know that.
Single payer non-profit health coverage for all, and nobody who gets money from insurance companies gets to vote on the issue.
Think health isn't a political issue? I got one word: Tylenol. It has been known for many years that it can harm the human liver. But wonder why it only got to the press this year? New administration.
Absolutely!!
Obama should stand up to the “medical industrial complex,” expose the “socialism” claims and other scare tactics as the simple distortion and fear-mongering it is ,and fight for a policy that ELEMINATES the profit motive from healthcare in America altogether.
It’s greed, the relentless pursuit of ever increasing profit margins to please shareholders (and line CEO wallets) which is directly responsible for the ruinous increase in healthcare costs, with no corresponding improvement in outcomes.
(I’m disabled with MS and have been on Medicare – with nothing but good experiences – for 8 years. A single payer, not-for-profit healthcare system like Medicare for every American is the only answer to all our short and long-term healthcare issues.)
Look Elle if you have MS then you should receive Medicare and I have zero problem with that. I'm a conservative however I believe in safety nets for people and unfortunately you needed it. I am sorry that you are going through this awful disease. I hope you can tell me that you are doing well....I really do.
My problem is that there are plenty of healthy people out there that are able bodied and I dare ask why I should pay for them when they can do something. There are illegal immigrants working making up to $200/day in NY for instance working as carpenters or landscapers. Why can't some of these able bodies American's do that?
As for you once again, I have no problem with some of my tax money going towards helping those who truly CAN'T.
Tylenol harms the liver in high doses, much higher than directed. Also, if you combine Tylenol with alcohol = certain death
Is Tylenol commonly abused in the US?
My still unanswered question about the Public Option. How is it funded? Will the people that use this option be supporting the program with there premiums? Or will it be funded, in-whole or in-part, by a tax on people that may not be 'customers' of this Public Option? Could the government use there legislative power to force their competition out of business and open the door to single-payer?
I also have a new question: If the big bad republic profiteers are making $millions by denying claims and such, wouldn't it be easy for others to start their own health care insurance company and put the Rethuglicans out of business? Think of it, this new private company could provide better care for less cost and still make a decent profit that they could use to pay reasonable bonuses and provide even better service to their customers. The private health care insurance providers are still vulnerable to competition aren't they? Wouldn't the people that believe the current set of providers is so corrupt, evil and poorly run see this as an excellent opportunity to create a better company of, by and for the people effected? Thousands of the supporters of the Public Option have $millions, millions of the supporters have $thousands. Put your money where your mouth is. Why do you need the government? Does it have anything to do with the taxing power of federal government?
"If the big bad republic profiteers are making $millions by denying claims and such, wouldn't it be easy for others to start their own health care insurance company and put the Rethuglicans out of business?"
While it would be possible, the event isn't particularly probable. Capital at that scale doesn't "settle for less". Government enterprises, on the other hand, don't need to generate a profit.
As Marx pointed out above, the start up capital necessary would be staggering. Insurance corporations have been buying out smaller companies, because it's the easiest way to increase membership (see profits). Competition is also difficult to take into account, because many people have to get whatever insurance their employers offer, because that's all they can afford. Employers have larger pools, many times resulting in smaller premiums, than an independently bought policy.
As for your questions regarding taxation and funding - it's difficult to comment on legislation that hasn't been written yet.
Personally, I hope to see Single Payer. If not Single Payer, then Public Option that can be adapted to Single Payer further down the line.
This is an excellent interview by PBS's Bill Moyers with two doctors who advocate Single Payer.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/05222009/watch2.html
http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1178899944/program/1113570149
And here’s an even better one : “Profits Over People.” Moyers interviews an insurance industry insider who spilled the beans in testimony before Congress about all the twisted tactics of the insurance industry to deny coverage and care to increase profits.
It’s a real eye-opener, and any American who cares about this issue will watch and spread the word to everyone they know.
Cigna's market cap. is $6.5B and Aetna's is $11.4B. Considering that fact that millions of people would be willing to support this new progressive company, a few $Billion should not be a problem.
Employer's can drop there carrier like a hot rock. If they are bound by contract, they can switch when their contract is up.
"As for your questions regarding taxation and funding - it's difficult to comment on legislation that hasn't been written yet."
I have a guess where the money will come from.
Here is a good program from PBS Frontline
"Sick Around America"
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundamerica/
Good post Steve. Paul Krugman described the health insurance business environment as a group of cartels on Maria Bartiromo's show this morning. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but it only makes sense that a "free" government run health care program would put all private insurers out of business and all that would be left was a monopoly, probably ending up costing us much much more than estimated as previously private participants switched to the government plan.
If you are concerned about your money, you should be screaming for universal single payer which is proven to be the most cost effective means of delivering high quality care.
Proven by who? One thing that is certain is the rationing of health care.
We need Medicare for all. Medicare is a government run program today that enjoys popular support.
We need Medicare for all for the same reason we need US Government flood insurance. Because private insurers WOULD NOT pay flood victims. Now we have private insurers that will not pay claims.
When we have Medicare for All, and private industry has to compete with that, they will not be able to continue their criminal theft of premiums and not paying claims, because they will lose those patients to the public plan.
How much will this cost?
Who pays for it?
Will it work?
The answers?
You don't know Bob.
You are filled with opinions backed with no real information.
WOW! Emmory, those are the same questions that the Insurance Industry gave the GOP to ask.
So...
These aren't questions we should be asking?
Stop worrying about the cost and who the hell will pay for it and realize that we all pay for it in the end, one way or another.
What progressives are trying to do is make people realize that it's smarter to be in control, to have people united to work towards disease and bad health prevention and to save tons of money by being smart and careful.
It's time for the idiots who know nothing about running anything except for-profit manners to get the hell out of the way because they're taking down the country, our health and our economy.
So wake up.
Here's a link: get educated, and get hip.:
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch.html
It'll tell you or anyone who wonders all ya need to know.
.
I don't understand - what was I supposed to look at? is this guy offering real solutions or just trying to rally the troops?
No kidding we all pay for it.
Right now let's say me and my wife pay $6000 per year for health insurance. Under a universal health care system are you telling me I would pay LESS than that in increased taxes?
BS.
If my taxes go up $6000 grand a year what is the point? And with this "health care system" MY taxes will go up WAY over $6000.
I'd like to see you prove it wouldn't.
Don't you see that all of these countries that your link mentions pay way more in taxes then we do.
This is the problem. The money for universal health care has to come from somewhere and that somewhere will equal even more $ out of MY pocket.
AND yours...
If you are concerned about your money, you should be screaming for universal single payer which is proven to be the most cost effective means of delivering high quality care.
If you genuinely have questions, you can start to inform yourself here:
http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php
There are well defined plans in Sen. Sanders' S.703 and Rep. Conyers HR 676.
There are several bills out there. Say what you want. Single payer?
Has it ever occurred to anyone to question the outrageous money so many individuals and corporations(e.g. health insurance companies) in the US are allowed to make off the backs of the middle class and low income work force? No one is asking the question, how did these people get so much filthy concentrated wealth? Well....off the backs of skilled workers not being paid a decent wage for their skill, slave trading with the desperate immigrants coming thru the open barndoor on our southern border, off the middle class working people who have been taking a hit on their wages for decades. All we hear is how the moneyed classes in this country create wealth. DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH. There isn't a single man alive on this earth worth an accumulated wealth of a billion dollars. It's ludicrous. Tax the s out of them to get the health care coverage we true Americans so desperately need. I'm ashamed of my country...the greatest nation on earth is the laughing stock of the free world because of our unjust health care system. PUBLIC OPTION HEALTH INSURANCE NOW!!!!!!!!
How does a government run health care program deal with the real problem - rising unsustainable costs?
How do private employers deal with the real problem of rising unsustainable costs? Several employers in my area froze wages this year to continue paying insurance premiums. And some have resorted to including a chart called "your hidden paycheck" to show what part of your compensation goes into insurance benefits. (Of course, if insurance costs keep skyrocketing, we'll lose the insurance completely. And I can promise you that the money will not go into raises during this crappy economy.) I know that I can't get affordable insurance on the private market. If a company would take me, the premium would be higher than my mortgage payment, even with a $10,000 deductible. Except for asthma, I'm healthy, but I'm over 50. I'm not one of the "young invincibles" that the insurance industry wants on their rolls.
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