Obama Web Site Protest Grows
Online protest has continued to grow against Senator Obama's decision to support legislation granting legal immunity to telecommunications companies that cooperated with the Bush administration's program of wiretapping without warrants.
As I wrote about yesterday, the protest is taking place on the Obama campaign's social networking site, MyBarackObama.com. The site allows Obama supporters to create online IDs for themselves, and blog and network in a manner similar to Facebook and MySpace.
The largest group on the site now is called "Senator Obama -- Please, No Telecom Immunity and Get FISA Right." When I wrote yesterday, it had 12,261 members. As I write this it is approaching 18,000. Many members of the group are actively recruiting new members, with the objective of making the group as large as possible by the time of the FISA vote next week.
The protest comes at a particularly awkward time for Senator Obama. Half of his campaign money thus far has come from small online donors, who are closely associated with the MyBarackObama site. While the campaign is counting on many of these donors to continue contributing in small amounts through November, since becoming the presumptive nominee the campaign has shifted gears to focus more on traditional big-donor fundraising.
The New York Times reports that last week the campaign ran an event in Colorado Springs for $1,000 per person, and two events in Chicago and one in Los Angeles for $28,500 per person. Next week will include several more events with entrance tags of $20,000 or more, including a private dinner with Obama for a minimum donation of $33,100.
A good deal of this activity is the result of the Obama campaign welcoming Hillary Clinton's core funders on board. These are folks who give lots and lots of money. But the sharp turn to big-dollar fundraising comes directly on the heels of Obama's sharp move to the right on a number of issues that small-donor activists care about deeply.
In previous years, that wouldn't mean much because small donors had no way of knowing who each other were or what each other thought. But, as Senator Obama likes to say in his speeches, "not this time." This time they have MyBarackObama.com, and they are using it.
One big unanswered question (it has never come up before) is what kind of numbers a Web protest like this will have to have to achieve significant impact the real political world. Are 18,000 people in the protest group a lot or a little? They are a tiny sliver of the hundreds of thousands of the site's members, but many members are people who were given an account when they gave an online donation and never returned. It is a much small number who actually use the site in the way the Obama campaign hoped: networking online to do offline organizing. As deputy campaign manager Steve Hildebrand said "We said to our online supporters, 'We love you, but we need you to actually go to work in your neighborhood.' Their online support was only great if we could translate it into activity within their community." The power users of MyBarackObama.com are those people. They may not be able to throw down $33,100 for a dinner with their candidate, but they have had a lot to do with him being the one eating all that haute cuisine.
Predictably, there were many comments to my post yesterday. Many were thoughtful, and they were fairly divided pro and con concerning the online protest. The most interesting by far came from Barack Obama himself, by way of a comment pointing me to an interview Obama did with Rolling Stone last March:
This is where the Internet is so powerful. One of the things that surprised me in this campaign is how well we were able to use technology to organize people. There's enormous promise ... The Internet gives young people a tool to be informed continuously. It gives them an opportunity to speak to each other and mobilize themselves. It gives them the opportunity to hold me accountable when I'm not following through on promises that I've made.
Loading comments…
Want to reply to a comment? Hint: Click "Reply" at the bottom of the comment; after being approved your comment will appear directly underneath the comment you replied to
The people who are attacking Barack when he's planning on fighting to have Title II of the bill removed (the part that grants immunity) are wasting their energy.
They should be calling their local senators and hounding them to vote to remove Title II as well.
Barack Obama, presidential nominee or no, is only one man.
The senate has 100 members.
I think Barack should vote against it but I agree, we should also be contacting the other 99 senators as well.
@knighthowl
I really didn't want to turn this thread into a Bush bash fest.
You seem to think that Bush is the devil incarnate and I think that Bush is simply a flawed President doing the best he can under very very trying circumstances..
You won't change my mind and I probably won't change yours. So, on THAT issue, we'll just have to agree to disagree..
But as to the matter of HR 6304, there really isn't any interpretation needed. The new FISA measures pass Constitutional muster. They have complete support and the majority of Democrats in the House and Senate are for these measures, including the Democratic Party nominee for President.
I would have thought such complete bi-partisan support would be a cause for celebration..
I hope to see President Obama in 2009.. But these attacks on HR 6304 and Obama's support of the bill is really doing some harm to his campaign. Wouldn't you agree??
Michale.....
I do agree, Michale. Unfortunately, Obama. resembles Dr Seuss' Cat of Cat in the Hat. Even he doesn't know how many hats he's wearing much less what's under all those hats. It;s what Bill meant when he said we'd be rolling the dice with Obama.
Actually Obama is making the best of a bad situation. It would be incredibly stupid for Obama to show up to the left of the rest of the sentient Democratic Party.
Lying about it, or perhaps lacking the intellectual ability to accurately assess his move doesn't add to your credibility.
The harm is being done to ALL Americans privacy rights. That's the harm I am interested in. These are NOT "attacks" on Obama this is a disagreement about HIS position on Telecom immunity.
Michale32086
Interesting to see that you wrote:
"I think that Bush is ... doing the best he can under very very trying circumstances."
Some of us, however, are not Bush supporters.
Some of us do not want a candidate to support Bush policies.
Obviously, if you are someone who wants to votes for a candidate that will support Bush's policy on telecom immunity, you can vote for either Obama or McCain. Both will vote for telecom immunity.
Since you believe that Bush is doing the best that he can, and since you have engaged in a small campaign to repeatedly post your support for telecom immunity, why do you say that you want a candidate like Obama? Why not openly say that either candidate will satisfy your views on this issue?
If, as you say, Bush is doing the best that he can under the circumstances, wouldn't you prefer a candidate that has opening adopted more Bush policies than the other? Why don't you openly prefer McCain? Which additional Bush policies do you want Obama to adopt? Are you expecting him to do so?
Another day, more facts to put out over this.
OK, let me say it again real loud for the cheap seats..
HR 6304 (New FISA Measures) has NO CONSTITUTIONAL Conflict whatsoever.
FACT
The Telecomm Immunity is for CIVIL LIABILITY ONLY.
FACT
There is no EX POST FACTO violation for the retroactive Immunity because EPF only applies in Criminal Cases.
FACT
To paraphrase:
"These are the facts. And they are indisputable."
-Kevin Bacon, A FEW GOOD MEN
Have a great and safe 4th.
Michale...
Thank you for your time Michale.
Thanks for your untiring work.
You remind me of Sean Gardner, the guy never quites if hes got a point to make.
:D I am stubborn, that much is certain.. :D
Michale.....
Thanks for the complement lady!!! Love you too...
Say that three times and I may consider it true. Go ask Alice.
The fact that you keep saying it doesn't make you right. It just makes you repetitious.
Question: Why should the Telecoms get Immunity from "CIVIL LIABILITY?"
Question: Why are 15 Democratic Senators voting against is bill if it has immunity?
If there is no price to pay what stops the Telecoms from rapping us in the future?
...or should we just lay back and enjoy it?
It is the obligation of the American people to protect and defend the Constitution. The FISA bill as written is clearly an attack on the Constitution. Obama says that his support for FISA may be a deal breaker and that is OK. As an American, I will not support any candidate that seeks to destroy the Constitution of the United States of America.
I am betting you haven't read the new FISA measures have you?
Here ya go:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.06304:
Please read and point out the sections that violate the US Constitution.
I could save you some time and tell you that there AREN'T any violations at all. But then you would just be taking someone's word for it, as you are now.
So, rather then give you a fish, I am going to teach you to fish...
Michale.....
Is it Constitutional to take away someone's vested rights without compensation? Those who have filed suit agaist the telcoms have vested rights which FISA purports to take away. I do believe that this is unconstitutional. I will let you fish, but I believe you will find a Constitutional prohibition against taking property without just compensation.
Obama's "other face" is beginning to show more clearly each passing day.First his reversal on public financing, more shocking:....now his FISA flip-flop, Senator Obama, it does NOT violate the constitution "a little bit"...!!!! (Obama is saying -in so many words- we are only a little bit pregnant) , then his cowardly reaction to General Clark's principled statement re John McBush's qualifications for president - Obama's weasel-like reaction, now there is the distinct possibility that withdrawing from Iraq "MIGHT" take a different tack............HOw much more evidence do we need to see that there is ...."more-of-the-same" washington DC rhetoric coming around the next bend in the road...................STOP giving more money to this politician of the same stripes.....I know, he no longer needs my paltry contribution, but that is the only way I can let him know, I'm wide awake now, the dream is over for me.........Join me in turning OFF the financial tap,...it has created a monster.........
You're so hell bent on pointing all Obama's flaws that I'm pretty sure you are a troll. Are you hoping for McCain perhaps?
first of all, i have to say that i doubt very seriously if the telecoms ever had any real choice about whether or not to participate in Bushco's spying on American citizens - one can well imagine that it would have been made quite clear to them that the repercussions of "choosing" not to participate could be detrimental in the extreme
secondly, what is there to stop republican trolls and agitators from fanning the flames of division among Obama's supporters on this website? anybody remember when Oxy Limpballs exhorted his lame-brained dittoheads to go out and vote for Hillary? same principal
divide and conquer is a tried and true strategy which every Obama supporter must be aware of and take into account --- Obama has said repeatedly that he will revisit this and many other Bushco travesties after he takes office --- Obama's FISA vote may or may not be the right one for right now but when all is said and done, it comes down to a question of whether or not you have faith and trust in the candidate you've chosen to support
admittedly, having faith and trust in ANY politician today is a difficult thing to do, but what is the alternative?
"Secondly, what is there to stop republican trolls and agitators from fanning the flames of division among Obama's supporters on this website?"
Nothing. Do you think we HAVEN'T been seeing the results of this already?
90% of the posters attacking Obama over FISA have no idea what the facts of the bill are.
I'm willing to bet at least 40% of them have never said a good thing about him in any of their posts.
Really?...Really?...and no one is smart enough to know that those "Protestors" are just unhappy Clinton losers? LOL Trust me...AMERICA knows that's what 99.9% of them are. They have a place to blog and look like real democrats but really? They are just the unbalanced losers that can't deal with reality. That's why Obama's poll numbers have not been affected. Just a small group that screams loudly just like they did when Clinton lost.
In another post, I categorized the FISA Crowd...
Based on all available evidence, the Anti FISA crowd can be broken down into 3 groups.
1. The Hillary/PUMA crowd. This group's committed goal is to sabotage Obama's candidacy in any way possible. This is simply another manifestation of that.
2. The Bush Bashing crowd. This group opposes the new FISA measures simply because the Bush Administration supports the new FISA measures. They don't care what the measures say or don't say because, in their opinions, Bush is not going to follow the law anyways.
SubGroup.. These are the ones who were REALLY looking forward to having a nice shiny new baseball bat in which to beat the Bush Administration over the head with...
3. The Ignorant/Follow The Herd crowd. This group simply has other people dictate their opinions for them. They are averse to actually learning for themselves and are content to go with whatever crowd they happen to be in at the time....
Michale.....
Grrrrr...
That SHOULD read, "I categorized the ANTI- FISA Crowd.."
Preview... Preview... Think PREVIEW....
Michale...
I think if you peed your pants you'd blame it on Clinton. It is within the realm of possibility that Obama's stand on FISA and the telecoms is very unpopular. There is no need to blindly cast blame. It is more productive to deal with the issue than to hurl accusations.
pee in the pants, huh? Is that PUMA's next protest?
Obama should have nothing to do with FISA..just another one of his problems:(
I don't think you understand the nature of what FISA is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
Please educate yourself.
Abalone!
Obama is his own man! Latch on, or whither on the vine!
I always wondered what flavor the Kool-Aid actually was..............now I know
The one thing none of you are doing is giving those of us who saw nothing in him from Day One and even less with every broken promise and change of position, a reason to want to think twice.
Every day I wonder the same thing. Not whether I'd vote for a hologram, but why you would.
Misplaced faith-based hope creates zealots.
Do you know what a warning watching how many of you behave on these threads is to the rest of us? And to the rest of the country?
I am actually very thankful to you for it.
This level of hyper-affirmation can only signify the partisan weaknesses of the candidate. There won't be enough of you to make any kind of majority.
There are way too many reasons NOT to vote for someone with no experience, no track record and no way to relate to most of what Americans prioritize in terms of what they want in a politician.
I am writing in the candidate I support based on capability. it's not Obama. It's not McCain. There will be millions of us doing the same thing.
He hasn't been nominated yet. And by the end of August, it's questionable whether anyone can give the rest of us a reason why he should be. Whatever putative groundswell he had is dribbling away by the day.
I -gala1
It's a free country and Obama's is a free web-site. He's secure enough to allow it.
Do you want your boy to win or lose? That is the question...
Obama knows his cultists won't abandon him over FISA, Telecom immunity, AIPAC, NAFTA, or even "adjusting" his Iraq position. He also knows the rest of us have to hold our noses and vote for him or we get McBush.
Indeed he's "adjusted" his Iraq position so much that he's saying the same exact thing he's been saying since 2007.
Oh, did you mean the part where he said he's going to be going to Iraq to assess how best to stat pulling our troops out if his current plan of pulling 1-2 battalions a month proved foolish or dangerous?
Just the part on his website where he says we will be out in 16 months. Obama's problem is not policy so much...it is his inability to make clear sentences. He is constantly correcting himself or explaining himself. That is an understandable rookie mistake but he should be getting over it by now. His surrogates do a better job but then he comes in and steps all over them.
Keep after him--we want no conservative in libreral clothing!!
We who?
Liberals, I think.
Sen. Obama has offered a plausible argument for his position on FISA.
I’d like to understand how he justifies un-Constitutional faith-based initiatives.
Contrary to all the arm chair pundits’ claims of a move to the center, this is from the extreme right wing.
Bait and switch tactics such as this come with a price.
You think he's gonna reverse himself now? Again?
He did not reverse himself a first time. Read his repy to the protests on Huffington Post right now.
In January of this year Obama said:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I strongly oppose retroactive immunity in the FISA bill.
Ever since 9/11, this Administration has put forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand.
The FISA court works. The separation of power works. We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight, and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend.
No one should get a free pass to violate the basic civil liberties of the American people - not the President of the United States, and not the telecommunications companies that fell in line with his warrantless surveillance program. We have to make clear the lines that cannot be crossed.
.
It's time for Washington to hear your voices, and to act. I share your commitment to this cause, and will stand with you in the fights to come. And when I am President, the American people will once again be able to trust that their government will stand for justice, and will defend the liberties that we hold so dear as vigorously as we defend our security.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His new position is a complete reversal.
You must be logged in to comment. Log in or connect with
