Recommendations for the Armenian Diaspora

The ongoing high-level efforts between Turkey and Armenia to normalize relations, including establishing diplomatic relations and opening the land border between the two countries, have received President Obama's imprimatur during his recent visit to Turkey.

While the negotiated resolution of any conflict is a desirable goal, the Turkish government would be wise to weigh the public's expectations of this dialogue with existing realities, which will affect the immediate and long-term outcome of bilateral developments between the two countries and Turkey's relations with the United States and Azerbaijan.

First, there is a dichotomy of interests among the Armenian stakeholders in this dialogue. The interests of the Armenian Diaspora, even different Diaspora organizations, the American political establishment and Armenia are divergent. The increasingly boisterous voices in the Armenian Diaspora which object to the Armenian government's engagement with Turkey; the dismissal of the bilateral process by U.S. lawmakers who carry the Armenian lobby's torch in Congress; as well as the full blown campaign by all Armenian advocacy and lobby groups in furthering their legislative, educational, political and public affairs agenda in the U.S.and elsewhere, are proof of this divergence.

On the other hand, the Turkish community abroad, particularly in the U.S., has by and large voiced support of the Turkish government's dual approach that manifests itself in engaging in diplomatic efforts to normalize relations with Armenia on the one hand, and in committing to accept the findings of an impartial international commission that will address the contested period of Armenian-Ottoman history and the "genocide" question, on the other.

However, supporting the process does not mean turning a blind eye to competing Turkish interests and other realities. There are wide-spread concerns among Turks and others that Turkey will lose much and gain little from the entente it labors upon with Armenia. Without a doubt, the most significant loss Turkey may endure from this process, particularly from opening its land border with Armenia, could be estranging its natural strategic ally, Azerbaijan. Azerbaijan has shown significant reaction to Turkey's perceived "de-linking" of the continuing Armenian occupation from its negotiations with Armenia.

Those in support of normalizing relations with Armenia frequently allude to the potential spillover effect this will have on a peaceful solution to the Karabakh conflict and also stem the "genocide" campaigns by the Armenian Diaspora. However, others argue that the economic effect of a closed land border with Turkey is the only incentive for Armenia to engage in a meaningful dialogue with Azerbaijan on lifting its occupation. Some Azeri analysts argue that removing this sanction may deprive Armenia of any incentive for peace and leave Azerbaijan with no option but a new war.

The Turkish-Armenian dialogue is known to have been advocated by successive U.S. administrations as a way to "pacify" the Armenian lobby and to weaken the incessant congressional efforts for U.S. recognition of the "Armenian genocide," a development that would most certainly damage U.S.-Turkey relations.

However, pursuing this advice without addressing the underpinnings of the global Armenian campaign against Turkey will most certainly result in great disappointment for Turkey.

The "Armenian Genocide" narrative is an existential narrative for the Armenian Diaspora. It has become the glue that bonds the community across social, economic and political lines. Perpetuating this narrative and activating the community around legislative, educational, philanthropic and political endeavors has become the lifeline for Armenian Diaspora organizations, including the Armenian Church. Hatred against modern day Turks and Turkey has become an identity strengthening tool, particularly employed toward young Armenians, and examples of this hateful behavior against ordinary Turks abound.

It is in this area where Turkish analysis about the Armenian Diaspora's state of mind, its wide-reaching agenda and impact seems to be most deficient. The benefits that Turkey expects from rapprochement with Armenia can not be achieved as long as the Armenian Diaspora's realities are ignored. Unless Armenia and other interested parties can engage the Armenian Diaspora in this process and help bring about fundamental changes in the community, the "genocide" issue will remain at the center of their agenda. Consequently, Turkey's outreach to Armenia will have no effect on the Armenian Diaspora and its international agenda against Turkey, including its lobbying of the U.S. Congress and the Administration.

Bringing about change in the attitudes of the Armenian Diaspora needs to focus on:

* Stopping hate: It is clear to everyone who follows the Armenian Diaspora that the pursuit of genocide recognition has turned into a campaign of hate against Turkey and modern day Turks. This hatred has been manifested in worldwide terrorism and the murder of 40 Turkish diplomats; the continuing adoration of these killers, as well as ongoing harassment and intimidation of Turkish Americans. More troubling, is the fact that hate against Turkey seems to grow among many young Armenian adults who hold more severely hateful perceptions of Turks.

* Defending academic freedom and stopping intimidation and harassment of scholars: The Armenian Diaspora has successfully created an aura of intimidation in academia through their consistent vilification of scholars, who do not agree with the Armenian narrative of history. By slandering any scholar who deviates from the Armenian narrative as a "genocide denier" and attempting to deny such scholars access to academic and public platforms, the Armenian lobby is effectively stifling more research and debate on this history.

* Exposing Armenian "buy-out" of scholars: Armenian foundations and wealthy Armenian Americans are pouring money into American universities to support scholars, including Turkish ones, whose positions corroborate the Armenian narrative. The existence of "Armenian Genocide" study centers at leading U.S. universities rests on the largesse of such Armenian donations. Research in this area has effectively been turned into an Armenian funded cottage industry.

* Advocating the opening of Armenian Archives: Opening all Armenian archives to independent scholarly review will unearth the complete narrative of Ottoman-Armenian history, including the Armenian independence movement and revolt.

* Stopping foul play: Armenian Diaspora groups must be held accountable to stick to the same rules that apply to all advocacy groups. Many of them have not. The best example of such foul play is the Armenian National Committee of America, which is currently under investigation by the U.S. Department of Justice for possible violations of its legal status and other U.S. laws governing lobbying.
* Exposing the futility of political lobbying: The Armenian Diaspora lobbyists have invested much stock and capital in lobbying efforts to legislate history. Turkey must unequivocally state that it is an Armenian Diaspora illusion that such third country political pressures can force Turkey to accept their narrative and issue an "apology," opening the way for other demands by the Armenian Diaspora such as reparations or territorial claims.

* Looking forward: The Armenian community can gain tremendously by looking forward and reaching out to Turkey as their heritage country. Turkey and Turkish civil society should extend a hand of friendship toward the Armenian Diaspora. Turks, by and large, hold no animosity toward Armenians and will embrace Diaspora Armenians warmly. The rich Armenian culture continues to be part of Turkey's culture, its music, art, architecture, folklore and cuisine. These common bonds can be revived and the Armenian Diaspora, not Armenia, can herald this revival.

* Ending Armenia's isolation: The Armenian Diaspora has played a significant role for Armenia. However, the Armenian Diaspora's efforts cannot replace the economic and political benefits of normalizing Armenia's relations with its neighbors, particularly Azerbaijan, and integrating the country into the economic and strategic regional framework. The Armenian Diaspora in the United States, in particular, should be the advocate of moving Armenia away from Russia and Iran and closer to Turkey and the U.S.

* Believing in dialogue: The current Turkish government has long extended a hand of friendship and reconciliation toward the Armenian Diaspora and Armenia in its invitation to form an international historical commission. Turkey's invitation and willingness to support such a comprehensive effort and to accept its findings may not remain valid forever. The Armenian Diaspora should unclench its fist and take this hand, as it is the only way for peace and reconciliation.

Comments

[ALCA]

Part 2 of comment.
The stridency of some of the comments related to Mr. Fein's article do not lead to open dialogue nor do they advance any reasonable investigation. I am personally not a big fan of countries apologizing for past "crimes". On my father's side my family came from Ireland to the U.S. in 1812 and finally settled in Pittsburgh. On my mother's side they came from Germany and Ireland in 1878 and settled in northern Ohio. Are they (because they were white Europeans) responsible for what happened to American Indians or for slavery? Should I seek an apology from America for people who exploited Irish immigrants (conscription into the Union Army as they left ships) or for prejudices they suffered(signs on factory doors that said "No Irish need to apply here")?
The level of hatred (harbored from the past and taught to young people) is high enough. Let us tone down the hatred and strive for new beginnings in relationships.

[ALCA]

I read Mr. Fein's article and all of the comments related to it. Certainly the level of comments vary in quality and some commenters are more interested in abusive name calling than in clarification and open communication.
I know nothing about the "baggage" that the various commenters bring to the discussion. None of us enter a discussion completely unbiased so I will expose my biases before my comments. I grew up in the midwest and I remember to this day my mother telling me to clean my plate at dinner or she would put my food into an envelope and sent it to the starving Armenians. I also remember a cartoon with characters from various ethnic groups. One of these characters was a ferocious Turk who wore a fez (the fez was no longer worn in Turkey even as this cartoon was produced). This was my upbringing as a child. Then we went to Turkey under the auspices of the Congregational Church mission board and lived in the interior of the country for five years (both of our sons were born in Turkey).
So you can place my comments within that context.
I find Mr. Fein's article filled with much merit. The reality of today's world is that Turkey and Armenia need to open borders, normalize relations and get on with life.

[factsveritas]

To confirm for the reader that the authors of the _Dictionary of the First World War_ (see in two posts below) were not just blowing smoke, here is a brief quote from a Venezuelan adventurer who ended up in the Ottoman Army (according to his discharge papers, his highest rank was major, though apparently he became a general in Venezuela later on):

De Nogales, Rafael, _Four Years Beneath the Crescent_, Charles Scribner’s Sons (1926), pg. 44-45:

"After hostilities had actually commenced, the Deputy to the Assembly for Erzerum, Garo Pasdermichan, passed over with almost all the Armenian troops and officers of the Third Army to the Russians; to return with them soon after, burning hamlets and mercilessly putting to the knife all of the peaceful Mussulman villagers that fell into their hands."

To further sharpen the picture, note that Garo Pasdermichan (with the "nom de guerre" Armen Garo) was one of the terrorists involved in the bloody raid on the Ottoman Bank on August 26, 1896. He is shown, together with his photograph, as the "Commander, 2nd Legion" in the same book where Cardashian's article appeared (again see below for the reference). It is a testament to the tolerance of the Ottoman Government that he was allowed to become a "Deputy to the Assembly representative for Erzurum.

Can you spell "high treason"?

[factsveritas]

I wonder if this is the type of self-defense Masis is talking about:

Hartill, Leonard Ramsden, _Men Are Like That_, The Bobbs-Merrill Co., Indianapolis (1928), pg. 133. (memoirs of Armenian Ohanus Appressian, as related by author who worked as an agricultural specialist with the Near East Relief in Armenia and befriended Ohanus whose memoirs he captured in the book):

"In this movement we took with us three thousand Turkish soldiers who had been captured by the Russians and left on our hands when the Russians abandoned the struggle. During our retreat to Karaklis two thousand of these poor devils were cruelly put to death. I was sickened by the burtality displayed, but could not make an effective protest. Some, mercifully were shot. Many of them were burned to death. The method employed was to put a quantity of straw into a hut, and then after crowding the hut with Turks, set fire to the straw."

[Masis]

PART ONE:
Ah factsveritas you're back! I thought you had decided to heed my advice and keep quiet until the republic of Ostrich joins civilisation: does not persecute, prosecute, pillory, terrorise or murder its own best FREE AND INDEPENDENT journalists, Nobel Prize winning writers, academics/­historians and intellectu­als/studen­ts and the population in general; abolishes 301 "insulting Turkishness"!!! and let's everyone to have complete freedom of thought, expression and research and then we'll see what happens to your fantasy kindergarten history with its distorted, skewed and made up "facts" and out of context quotes,
So please get your government to join the civilised world - gets rid of the Deep State official propaganda and terrorism and allows you to speak as free men rather than as parrots repeating the official fantasy history you have been fed. In other words my Ostrich friend TRY and get your head out of the sand (poisonous official lies and propaganda).
SEE PART TWO

[Masis]

PART TWO:
I repeat no historian, Armenian or otherwise, has ever claimed that Armenians behaved totally like sheep - mind you the Turkish official narrative exects them to have behaved like sheep and stay under the brutal Turkish yoke and rule for ever even when the Ottoman Empire was crumbling and there was no one else left. Just like the Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians and other oppressed nationalities, when the Armenians had a chance they did give the regular Turkish army and the murderous gendarmerie a good bloody nose - such as in Musa Dagh, Van, Sari Ghamish, Sardarabad, etc. There was also, of course, REVENGE killings, by Armenian soldiers, after 1918 defeat of the Ottoman armies. This has been estimated at between five to six thousand in all by the majority of independent (NON ARMENIAN) historians, including Taner Akcam. Once the Jews had been liberated from Nazi concentration camps by the allied soldiers they often lynched their Nazi guards and this is totally understood by everyone; and when you consider the entire 1.5 million Armenian population of Western Armenia, Cilicia and central Anatolia were completely wiped out as there are no Armenians there now, the revenge killings of five or even ten thousand, tragic though it may be, but is certainly understandable.
SEE PART THREE:

[factsveritas]

"revenge killings" eh? I bet you would not mention it if I had not mentioned the atrocity. Soon perhaps you will admit to other things as well.

In any case, I notice you have not yet said anything about my 4th reference below, which is available to everyone since there are more copies than you can hope to remove from libraries:

4. Pope ,Stephen & Wheal, Elizabeth-Anne, _Dictionary of the First World War_ (1995), pg. 34.
The authors write that Armenian extreme nationalists, in December, 1914, "slaughtered an estimated 120,000 non-Armenians while the Turkish Army was preoccupied with mobilization".

How would this be revenge killings, happening as it were before any Armenian was moved out a house? Are the authors Turkish agents :) , as I am sure you will claim? Note that I have taken a direct quote from the book.

[Masis]

PART THREE:
The figure of "3,000,000 'Muslim' Turkish victims", often quoted by Turkish fantasy historians and their apologists is a complete distortion, a smokescreen and fraudulent in the sense that it counts the actual 3,000,000 Ottoman soldiers that the Young Turks lost in all the various stupid, senseless and incompetent pan Turanic wars they fought in all the fronts against the French, British and Russian, etc. armies from 1912 to 1918 BUT FRAUDULENTLY CONTRASTS AND COMPARES IT WITH THE 1,5 MILLION VICTIMS OF THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE and claims 'there were more 'Muslim' victims than Armenians"!!! As if Armenians killed 3,000.000 Turks! What a shamelss distortion!
As I have said before my Ostrich friends, unfortunately for Turkish official history no one believes these official kindergarten fables any more, not even intelligent and independent Turks inside the republic of Ostrich, despite 301/ "insulting Turkishness" (or should that be "insulting Ostrichness"!?) and the Deep State's terrorist threats. The game is up. Either the republic of Ostrich reforms itself towards civilisation (highly unlikely if your postings are any indication) or it will have to be dismantled and de-Nazified by US, EU and Russia - by military intervention if necessary - before it causes more genocide, this time against the Kurds or other peoples in the region.

[factsveritas]

Christian missionary George M. Lamsa has best summarized, in 1923, the atrocious war propaganda against Turks vs. the actual truth, and therefore how baseless today's allegations of an "Armenian genocide" are. Here is the quote from his chapter entitled "The Armenian Revolution" (Note: NOT "Armenian massacres" NOR "Armenian genocide", but "Armenian Revolution"):

George M.Lamsa, _The Secret of the Near East_, The Ideal Press, Philadelphia (1923), pg. 133:

"In some towns containing ten Armenian houses and thirty Turkish houses it was reported that 40,000 people were killed, about 10,000 women were taken to the harem and thousands of children left destitute; and the city university destroyed and the bishop killed. It is a well-known fact that even in the last war the native Christians, despite the Turkish cautions, armed themselves and fought on the side of the Allies. In these conflicts, they were not idle, but they were well supplied with artillery, machine guns and inflicted heavy losses on their enemies."

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

"Many massacres were committed by the Armenians until our army arrived in Erzurum... (after General Odesilitze left) 2,127 Muslim bodies were buried in Erzurum's center. These are entirely men. There are ax, bayonet and bullet wounds on the dead bodies. Lungs of the bodies were removed and sharp stakes were struck in the eyes. There are other bodies around the city."

Source: Official telegram of the Third Royal Army Command, addressed to the Supreme Command, March 19, 1918; ATASE Archive of General Staff, Archive No: 4-36-71. D. 231. G.2. K. 2820. Dos.A-69, Fih.3.

Why is everyone ignoring the vicious Armenian war crimes?

[Masis]

Part Two:
However the Ittihadists used a diabolical genocidal plan in recruiting the young Armenians into the Ottoman army and destroying them or using them as "amala tabuli" till they died of exhaustion and hunger. The leadership was arrested and destroyed in Istanbul and other large cities on April 24 1915. All that was left was women and children and the elderly who were marched to the desert to die. And a great many did die or were killed en route. Have the decency to see this. Why do you insist on behaving like an ostrich? No one believes Turkish distorted, skewed, twisted kindergarten official history - not even intelligent Turks in Turkey despite 301, persecution and prison. Hrant Dink, Pamuk, Akcam Bertktay, Zarakolou... .there are thousands like them and there will be tens and hundreds of thousands if Turkey abolished its draconian and repressive laws and allowed people a fundamental human right: Freedom of thought and expression. So how about it my Ostrich friend? Why don't you get your head out of the sand (Turkish poisonous propaganda) and see the truth? Trust me it's better to face the bitter truth than to be addicted to the painkiller of official Turkish history which makes you pathologically sick and hysterical as all your postings clearly demonstrate.
The republic of Ostrich must be abolished as Nazi ideology was dismantled - by foreign intervention in Germany.

[Masis]

This comment is pending approval and won't be displayed until it is approved.
CORRECTION: SHOULD BE 1893-97. PLEASE OBVIOUSLY IGNORE "1993-97" as previously stated in error.

Part ONE:
This guy is truly a pathological and hysterical denialist. So much so that he's on automatic mode...just parrot style repetition of official Turkish history. without pondering over his own words or lines. Look mate at your own source document's date: 19 March 1918!! Get it?! Probably not so let me explain even though I know it is no use as we are dealing with a true Ostrich here with his head deep in the sand fully covering his ears and eyes - Turkish official propaganda has totally blinded the poor ostrich and turned him into an insensitive zombie.
1. THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE YEAR 1915 which is when over a million Armenians were deported to their death from Western Armenia.
2. THE HAMIDIAN MASSACRES REFER TO 1893-1897 WHEN 300,000 ARMENIANS WERE MURDERED;
3. THE ADANA MASSACRES REFERS TO 1909 WHEN 30,000 WERE MURDERED.
Get it??!!
No serious historian/person whether Armenian or not would ever claim that Armenians behaved like sheep and stood there to be slaughtered. When they had an opportunity to defend themselves they did as in Musa Dagh, Van and elsewhere where they barricaded themselves and gave the regular Turkish army a very good run for its money to avoid what was waiting for them: Deportation and death.
See Part Two

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

"There is little news from the interior save that the Russians have entered Van. The contingent is mostly composed of Armenian volunteers who fight with desperate courage, but whose excesses have shocked even the Russian commanders."

Source: Lewis Einstein, "Inside Constantinople – A [Diplomat's] Diary During the Dardanelles Expedition, April-September, 1915,". 1917, p. 68; John Murray, London.

Armenian war crimes simply belie Armenian genocide claims.
__________­__________­__________­__________

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

"The Armenians did exterminate the entire Muslim population of Russian Armenia as Muslims were considered inferior to the Armenians by the prominent leaders of the Dashnaks."

Source: Mikael Kaprilian, Armenian revolutionary leader, in Yerevan, 1919.

Let historians expose the Armenian war crimes that biased scholars or media will not.
__________­__________­__________­__________

[Masis]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-335857292932517366

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

"Since all the able Moslem men were in the army, it was easy for the Armenians to begin a horrible slaughter of the defenseless Moslem inhabitants in the area. They ... simply cleaned out the Moslem inhabitants in those areas. They performed gruesome deeds, of which I, as an eye witness honestly say that they were much worse than what Turks have been accused of as an Armenian atrocity."

Source: General Bronsart von Schellendorf , "A Witness for Talat Pasha," Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, July 24, 1921

Why is everyone so silent about Muslim suffering and Armenian hate crimes?

[Threefeathers]

Masis' comment ; "1919-22 thanks to Stalin-Ataturk pact"

If the history knowledge of all the eager-beaver Armenian zealots is about as good as that of Masis, the Turkish side will have to seek more erudite and mature interlocutors. If Masis had even an elementary knowledge of the Russian revolution, he would have known that Josef Stalin did not become the top poo-bah until well after Lenin's death in 1924.

[Masis]

Yes it's true but Stalin WAS one of the top 6 in the Polit-Bureau (along with Lenin, Trotsky, Zinoviev, Kamenev and Bukharin right from the start, and more importantly the Commisar for Natrionalities with the specific task of sorting our the Caucasus, naturally involving lots of wheeling and dealing with Ataturk's nationalist movement in Ankara. Stalin also had a big role in foreign affairs from Jan-Feb 1920. This was such an important post that Lenin, as the Soviet government leader, actually initially offered it to Trotsky who, following the Brest Litovsk Treaty on February 9, 1918 (Trotsky was having conscientious difficulties signing away half of Ukraine to Wilhelm Germany and 80% of Armenia to the murderous Young Turk Ottomans) resigned from the position and became Commisar for War, to build the Red Army, a task which he excelled in.
By the way Lenin was practically incapacitated following the assassination attempt on him in early 1919, by an anarchist SR (Socialist Revolutionary) member who thought Lenin was a traitor following the signing of Brest Litovsk. He never recovered from his wounds and it is during this long illness that Stalin, as the "General Secretary" accumulates huge power over the Bolshevik Party and the new Soviet state, CONTRARY TO LENIN'S WISHES (read Lenin's last testament ) mainly due to Stalin's rough terrorist methods.

[Masis]

I don't see any Threefeather responses to my comments (below) in reply to his previous posting (above).
I take it then that he is satisfied with my reply to his specific charge.
However I still agree with your advice that the "Turkish side will have to seek more erudite and mature interlocutors" if it means taking their collective heads out of the sand i.e. REJECT THE FANTASY KINDERGARTEN HISTORY OF THE RACIST DEEP STATE that is fed to them. Reject also 301 and other draconian "insulting Turkishness" laws and open up your eyes, ears and minds.... The rest will follow.

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

POLITICAL LYNCHING OF THE TURKS BY ARMENIANS TODAY

Recognizing Armenian claim as genocide will deeply insult Turkish-Am­ericansand negatively impact the excellent relations currently enjoyed between the U.S. and Turkey. It will, no doubt, please Armenian activists but disappoint, insult, and outrage Turkey, one of America's closest allies since the Korean War of 1950-53. Turks stood shoulder to shoulder with Americans in Gulf War, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and more. American gratitude and thanks will appear to come (because of the Armenian lobby) in the form of the worst insult that can be dished out to an entire nation. What did Armenian do for the US other tahn be an outpost for Russia and conduit for transfer of nuclear technology to Iran?

History is not a matter of "conviction, consensus, political resolutions, or propaganda." History is a matter of research, peer review, thoughtful debate, and honest scholarship. What we witness today amounts to lynching of the Turks by Armenians to satisfy the age old Armenian hate, bias, and bigotry. Values like fairness, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, objectivity, balance, honesty, and freedom of speech are stumped under the fanatic Armenian feet.

Peace,

ERGUN KIRLIKOVALI

Son of Turkish Survivors from Both Maternal & Paternal Side

www.turkla.com
www.ethocide.com

[Masis]

Let's change "Armenian" with "Jewish" and "Turkish" with "German etc. and see what we get out of this rabid genocide denier's post:
" Recognizing Jewish claim as genocide will deeply insult NaziGerman­-Americans­and negatively impact the excellent relations currently enjoyed between the U.S. and Germany. It will, no doubt, please Jewish activists but disappoint, insult, and outrage Germany, one of America's closest allies since the Korean War of 1950-53 and throughout the Cold War..." bla-bla-bla
"David Irving"
Convicted Holocaust Denier

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

Maybe you can share with us the source of your "original quote".

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

VERDICT WITHOUT DUE PROCESS AMOUNTS TO LYNCHING

Those who take the Armenian “allegations” of genocide at face value seem to also ignore the following:

1- Genocide is a legal, technical term precisely defined by the U.N. 1948 convention (Like all proper laws, it is not retroactive to 1915.)

2- Genocide verdict can only be given by a "competent court" after "due process" where both sides are properly represented and evidence mutually cross examined.

3- For a genocide verdict, the accusers must prove “intent” at a competent court and after due process. This could never be done by the Armenians whose evidence mostly fall into five major categories: hearsay, mis-repres­entations, exaggerations, forgeries, and “other”.

4- Such a "competent court" was never convened in the case of Turkish-Armenian conflict and a genocide verdict does not exist (save a Kangaroo court in occupied Istanbul in 1920 where partisanship, vendettas, and revenge motives left no room for due process.)

5- Genocide claim is political, not historical or factual. It reflects bias against Turks. Therefore, the term genocide must be used with the qualifier "alleged", for scholarly objectivity and truth.

[Masis]

The above post proves that the republic of Turkey (or the republic of Ostrich in fact, considering that the majority seem to be digging their heads deeper and deeper into the sand in denying genocide!) is incapable of reforming itself and has to be reformed by joint intervention of Europe, US and Russia, militarily if necessary, as it was done with Nazi Germany. The Deep State is in full control of all "thinking" in the republic of Ostrich and in the manufacture of shameless racist kindergarten official "history". The Nazi ideology of Turkism and Pan-Turanism is the ideological basis of the terrorist authoritarian state that is the republic of Ostrich. It is a threat internally to the Kurds and externally to all its neighbours - including Europe. That stae must be destroyed and dismantled, a task that was left unfinished in 1919-22 thanks to Stalin-Ataturk pact - as a result of Stalinist terrorism ruling in Russia at the time.

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

ALLEGATIONS OF ARMENIAN GENOCIDE ARE RACIST AND DISHONEST HISTORY

They are racist because they ignore the Turkish dead: about 3 million during WWI; more than half a million of them at the hands of Armenian nationalists.

And the allegations of Armenian genocide are dishonest because they simply dismiss

THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT:

1) TUMULT (as in numerous Armenian armed uprisings between 1882 and 1920)

2) TERRORISM (by well-armed Armenian nationalists and militias victimizing Ottoman-Muslims between 1882-1920)

3) TREASON (Armenians joining the invading enemy armies as early as 1914 and lasting until 1921)

4) TERRITORIAL DEMANDS (where Armenians were a minority, not a majority, attempting to establish Greater Armenia, the would-be first apartheid of the 20th Century with a Christian minority ruling over a Muslim majority )

5) TURKISH SUFFERING AND LOSSES (i.e. those caused by the Armenian nationalists: 524,000 Muslims, mostly Turks, met their tragic end at the hands of Armenian revolutionaries during WWI, per Turkish Historical Society. This figure is not to be confused with about 2.5 million Muslim dead who lost their lives due to non-Armenian causes during WWI. Grand total: more than 3 million, according to Prof. Justin McCarthy.)

6) TERESET (temporary resettlement) triggered by the first five T’s above and amply documented as such; not to be equated to the Armenian misrepresentations as genocide.)

[Ergun Kirlikovali]

BIAS IN THE TERM “ARMENIAN GENOCIDE”

Fein hits the nail on the head. If one cherishes values like honesty and objectivity, then one should use the term “Turkish-Armenian conflict”. Asking one “Do you accept or deny Armenian Genocide” shows anti-Turkish bias. The question should be “What is your stand on the Turkish-Armenian conflict?”

Turks believe it was an inter communal warfare mostly fought by Turkish and Armenian irregulars, a civil war which is engineered, provoked, and waged by the Armenian revolutionaries, with active support from Russia, England, France, and others, all eyeing the vast territories of the collapsing Ottoman Empire, against a backdrop of a raging world war. Armenians, on the other hand, ignoring Armenian agitation, raids, rebellions, treason, territorial demands, and Turkish victims killed by Armenians, claim that it was a one way genocide.

GENOCIDE ALLEGATIONS IGNORE “THE SIX T’S OF THE TURKISH-ARMENIAN CONFLICT”

While some in unsuspecting public may be forgiven for taking the blatant and ceaseless Armenian propaganda at face value and believing Armenian falsifications merely because they are repeated so often, it is difficult and painful for someone like me, the son of Turkish survivors on both maternal and paternal sides.

Those seemingly endless “War years” of 1912-1922 brought wide-spread death and destruction on to all Ottoman citizens. No Turkish family was left touched, mine included. Those nameless, faceless Turkish victims are killed for a second time today with politically motivated and baseless charges of Armenian genocide.

[Masis]

Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:10 PM on 05/11/2009
-BadgerinNJ See Profile I'm a Fan of BadgerinNJ permalink
Shouldn't Mr. Fein identify himself: Bruce Fein is the Resident Scholar for the Turkish Coalition of America. Prior to this position, Mr. Fein was also resident scholar at the Assembly of Turkish American Associations and a columnist for the Turkish Times. He has served as a consultant to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, evaluated the terms of the Annan Plan, and has appeared regularly on VOA and Turkish television to discuss current political events and their implications for Turkish-American relations.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:33 PM on 05/08/2009
- Masis See Profile I'm a Fan of Masis permalink
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