African-American Community Should Embrace Gay Rights
Whenever there is a discussion about gay rights and the African-American community, someone can be depended upon to offer the juvenile critique that the cause of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender community is not the same as the historical Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and '60s.
It's not uncommon to hear African-American pastors suggest "my skin cannot be compared with their sin" as a way to poetically justify their homophobia.
This argument assumes a collective understanding of what the Civil Rights Movement is and what the LGBT movement is not.
If one views the civil rights movement and the current LGBT struggle through the linear paradigm of race and sex, I would agree there is little that connects the two.
If, however, one understands the civil rights movement as something that helped America get closer to the democratic values to which it committed itself in 1776, along with the preamble of the Constitution that reads: "We the people of the United States in order form a more perfect union," then I would suggest the LGBT struggle is very much an extension in the ongoing civil rights struggle.
As Dr. Sylvia Rhue, director of religious affairs for the National Black Justice Coalition stated: "Challenging homophobia is the unfinished business of civil rights."
One of the great challenges of the American experiment is the ongoing examination of who exactly comprises the "we."
Former Congresswoman, Barbara Jordan, during the Watergate hearings eloquently stated:
"'We, the people.' It is a very eloquent beginning. But when the document was completed on the 17th of September 1787 I was not included in that 'We, the people.' I felt somehow for many years that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton just left me out by mistake. But through the process of amendment, interpretation and court decision I have finally been included in 'We, the people.'"
It is fair to say that when the Constitution was ratified, not only was Jordan not included, but also many Americans today, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, let alone orientation, would have found themselves outside of the inclusive jurisdiction of the "we."
"Who are the we?" has been arguably the most tension-filled question in America's brief history. It has fueled demonstrations and violence. The country even went to war against itself, in part, because of the inability to answer the "we" question definitively.
It was the question that African slaves and their descendants raised in their quest for equality. It was the question for women during the suffrage movement. And it is the question that so many in the LGBT movement rightly have today.
The ironic aspect to this dubious legacy is when those newly admitted develop amnesia about their particular struggle for justice when volunteering for gate duty as others attempt to enter through the door marked, "Equal Protection Under the Law. "
On March 28, the National Black Justice Coalition will hold its fourth annual Black Church Summit along with a national town hall meeting at Glide United Methodist Church in San Francisco, beginning at 9 a.m. There will be a number of clergy, theologians and activists assembled in the ongoing attempt answer the "we" question as it relates to the African-American LGBT community.
NBJC is a civil rights organization dedicated to empowering the LGBT community. According to Rhue, "NBJC envisions a world where all people are fully empowered to participate safely, openly and honestly in family, faith and community, regardless of race, gender-identity or sexual orientation."
In order to meet this lofty goal, NBJC recognizes the importance of fostering dialogue with the historical black church that has played a vital role in the African-American community. The black church has consistently been a nexus of hope for people once condemned to the outskirts of second-class citizenship.
But far too many segments of the black church today prefer to hide behind the same rationale that justified Jim Crow segregation than to welcome their LGBT brothers and sisters.
When will we learn the door to equality does not remain cracked selectively?
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Thanks for your article, Mr. Williams. Judging from the rabid hate displayed here in the comments section -- including someone who said that if Coretta Scott King and Martin Luther King thought there was any similarity between the AA civil rights movement and the gay rights movement, he would "actually kind of hate them both for it", it looks like we have a log, long way to go on this issue.
I said if they compared the two movements the way people think they did, or would, I'd actually kind of hate them both for it. I'm not sorry for saying that or feeling that way.
It is basically the same issue. A segment of the populace denied rights guaranteed to others based on an arbitrary label.
Skin color-sexual orientation.
While the GLBT community is smaller in scale than the African American community, it is no less American, therefore they deserve the exact same guarantees, rights, and privileges allowed every other American.
You hate.
Really who would have guess that......
The late Coretta Scott King supported gay rights.
This issue is alot deeper and larger than pundits and bloggers have discussed.
The primary opposition to same-sex marriage being acknowledged by the state or Fed is the parallel activist movement to teach same-sex acceptance in public schools. Once a state adopts same-sex laws all public school and public school teachers AND curriculum can and must reflect same-sex relationships including sex education.
Remember back in Health class watching Johnny and Suzy conducting safe sex ? Ok now imagine that only this time it's Johnny and Jimmy. And before you giggle, remember that these classes are NOT OPT-OUT classes. Students are NOT authorized to leave class legally. They leave class they get an " F " and a misconduct mark against their record.
Now picture a family who is by all rights normal typical American family but they are devoutly Roman Catholic which does not accept or embrace homosexuality.
Who's rights will be more important ?
Think about it and decide because in short term your state will also be voting on a similar proposition. As will your government.
Evidence?
That's BS. The very few things that same-sex couples do that opposite-sex couples don't are very low risk. It's bigotry and nothing else. They hate us. They don't want us to exist. They would have no qualms about targeting us for another holocaust. That is where the opposition to our rights comes from. Anyone who says otherwise is either misguided or lying.
Since when is sodomy low risk ?
that is directly taken from the morman/catholic bullet points from the prop 8 campaign. and totally proven incorrect.
I'm against Prop 8 and for Same-Sex Marriage or the abolishment of the state conducting unions. However, if you do some research you'll find that Massachusetts has had some changes to their public school curriculum and some social fall out over those changes.
The media doesn't report on those changes on a national scale because they are primarily just a local evolution but the occurrences and the facts are starting to show patterns that are waving across the state. Driven by legal precedent and state law.
If you are going to war you should know the results of the war effort and the costs. If you ignore facts of any kind, your not righteous your just like the enemy. Happy to be ignorant.
If the rest of the country has a negative perception of these changes you can mark my words, the effort to promulgate ss-marriages will stop dead and will set the effort back many years. Under estimate the citizenry's penchant for conservative reaction and you'll fail. Harvey Milk was very knowledgeable and very informed and his success was because he anticipated community reactions.
ok, and say the christian fundamentalists walk out of biology class, do we stop teaching science.
religion has no place dictating curriculum in public schools.
Hear! Hear!
I am 45, my children are 30, 26, 15, 15 and 6. My STEP children are 21, 20, 17 and 6.
I have, very literally, WATCHED schools over the last 30 years teach less when it comes to "sex education". Back in the "caveman days" when *I* was in health class our teacher gave us a VERY comprehensive education on sex... INCLUDING proper usage of condoms and birth control. By the time that my 30 year old hit that same health class they no longer discussed birth control at all because "it upset parents". By the time that my 17 year old and 15 year olds hit that same class the focus was on "just say no", "go talk to your counselor if you need condoms" and "if you get pregnant we can arrange an abortion".
Thank whatever your deity of choice that WE chose to have sex be a "dinner table discussion
Schools do NOT teach the mechanics of sex... H*ll they BARELY touch on the differences (physical and hormonal) between male and female.
here's my take on this issue. Personally, I wouldn't want any of my kids to be gay. Why, because of my belief system. If I have a kid that is gay? I'll accept him/her regardless. I also don't believe it's appropriate for the gay community to force the black church to accept the gay lifestyle. By the same token, I strongly believe it's inappropriate for the church to impose their belief about the homosexual population on the rest of the society.
If I were in California, I would have voted for prop 8. Why? not because I condone the gay lifestyle, but because I believe in equality for all.
"I would have voted for prop 8."
----------
I think you meant you would have voted against Prop 8. Yes meant No. Basically a vote of Yes on Prop 8 meant that same-sex couples would NOT be allowed to retain their right to get married.
And if that is what you meant, then we thank you for your support. Most of us don't want to force any church to accept us, we want equality under the law. Heterosexuals are allowed to marry the person of their choosing, gays are not.
I'm also glad to hear that you would accept your child if he/she does come out as gay. I can tell you, you will probably "blame" yourself. And this is something no one should do. My mother blamed herself. It took her some time to come to terms with the fact that I am who I am, and I was with the person with whom I loved and shared my life with (My partner of 13 years was killed by a drunk driver in a head-on car collision.
How very sad.
I'm sorry for your loss.
Yeah that is sad. I don't like you, and I disagree with you here, but I'm sorry for your loss.
Good luck to you. You have our sympathies.
Let's take a step back here. A black reverend has suggested that the black community should embrace gay rights. Black commentators respond that while it would be good for the black community to address several different issues, including gay rights, black leaders should focus on solving the problems in the black community (which include mass incarceration of black men, double-digit unemployment, black on black crime, a lingering racial wealth gap that has improved little since slavery and a persistent gap in educational achievement along racial lines and gender lines within the black community). Somehow, this utterly reasonable response by blacks has outraged gays and lesbians. But, I ask you: why aren't you upbraiding whites, latinos, Asians, Jews, Italians, the Irish, Poles or other groups in America? Why isn't anyone complaining about the fact that religious leaders of these groups have not called for their communities to embrace gay rights? Can gays and lesbians obtain their civil rights without black support? If the answer to the latter question is affirmative, then what is all the fuss about? And, if you believe that the answer is negative, then I believe that you are overstating the power of the black community. Based on their situation, they are not very effective advocates even for their own causes. Gay people need the support of white men and women. With that, all of your problems will be solved. By the way, while you're at it, can you put in a good word for black people?
Bravo Iris!!!!!
I was waiting for you to "swoop in" and comment. I think that is what one commenter said you do.....hah
You bring clarity to this thread
Actually, in California, they have plenty of support. There is plenty of support in predominately white church congregations as well. To a limited extent, that has also taken place in the black community and even some white evangelical congregations.
And I AM gay. You mean to tell me that black folks are only going to offer me support because I'm black?
No, I am saying: why are you going to ask a guy with two hands tied behind his back on a pogo stick to help you carry your groceries up two flights of stairs?
You ask really great questions. I am not sure why so called "black journalists" and "black leaders" are pushing this agenda. Why are black leaders not encouraging more dialogue with hispanic groups? They actually are experiencing the same issues as blacks.
I think gay people overall are more financially sound than most.
Tanyaras5: That basic presupposi
It must noted that gay street protest has carefully and studiously avoided AA communities and places of worship. In L.A. and S.F. protests centered around safe upper-class white neighborhoods.
Most protests that took place around the state did so at either city or county administration buildings. If AA communities surround those areas, then the protests would have been right there for you all to see.
That 12% phenomena, huh? Just like the 6% of the total electorate in Cali. The biggest problem here, Iris, is general innumeracy. The simplest fact of the matter is that, as James Weldon Johnson suggested somewhere around the turn of the century (20th, I should add) that Black citizens will be blamed for everything that goes wrong in America, that whites will simply scapegoat Blacks for all of their inadequacies and pathologies.
Racism is the culture. Rather than take on that stupid and intransigent majority, the same one that continues to benefit from the massive disenfranchisement of Black citizens, (their fathers, mothers, sisters, and brothers, cousins and whatever have you) it is just simpler to follow the pattern. Blame the Blacks. Everything else is their fault, why not this?
You're right on. Look at all the white pundits who've been dumping on Obama since before his inauguration, as if it is their divine right to do so. Their paternalistic tone is just freaky.
Quotes from Coretta Scott King:
"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group."
"Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Ga. and St. Augustine, Fla., and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributi
so whats the point?
The point is to watch you and the others who traffic in stereotypes and divisiveness squirm in the face of true moral dignity.
The point seems clear: Corretta Scott King is standing up for an inclusive historical definition of the civil rights movement which takes into account the inclusive aims of the movement,as well as the larger history of its participants.
I would say that Lisa G---and this is just a guess--was probably offering you these quotes to combat what is essentially a revisionist history of the civil rights movement which seems only to define the civil rights in terms of African American struggle and benefit, and this to the detriment of all the people who have worked for civil rights and civil liberties in this country.
What's your point of these quotes?
I am sure some polygamists, bigamists and serial monogamists stood up for civil rights in Montgomery also. This doesn't entitle them severally or jointly to protection under the constitution.
Society will regulate its mores, like it or not.
Tolerance-yes. Endorsement--no.
"Serial monogamists"?
Yeah, their rights are just being trampled on these days!
That was too funny...
You forgot to mention polyandrists. Like me. I want myself a harem full of men. ;)
You also forgot to conflate being gay with being a pedophile.
And you forgot to equate homosexuality with bestiality.
Come on! As long as we're trafficking in useless stereotypes, worn-out straw men, and logical fallacies, we may as well go all out!...
and???
Love to hear your well-reasoned response to her position.
For any novices to gay-themed threads at HuffPo: beware the poseurs and provocateurs. "Tanyars5" and "carsntrucks" come to stir the pot, not contribute to the aspirations of the original essay.
From carsntrucks, below:
" . . .don't come with this "the list is growing" stuff when you only named a handful of socialist countries and two states here."
Only folks from the Limbaugh camp and others like it are bandying the word "socialism
Whatever. I'm not stirring any pot. I wrote why I disagreed with the "aspirations of the original essay".
They are socialist countries (I'm thinking). They aren't bad countries because they're socialist countries. It's just, it's less of a shock to find out a small European country allows gay marriage and not, say, a small African country or an Asian country. A country that still has a lot of conservatism.
Yes. Because you do not like gay people.
I am PO'd at both sides right now. A little more at the AA side than the gay side, quite frankly. I hope Huff posts this and my 2 previous posts.
Hate of anyone is against all I believe in although I am getting quite close to it with the rethugs in office not wanting our Country to get back on track and throwing stones as if they don't have blood on their hands. Ok the point is Blacks/African Americans cannot change their skin color. It is before them daily and it is for this reason there is no comparison. Discrimination is the word to use here and then I understand what you are speaking about. Discrimination because of color, age, gender, gender choice, religion should not be allowed in this day and time or ever! We are all in this world together and this election should have taught us that discrimination can no longer be acceptable to anyone. Check your discrimination meter...ho
As a gay person, l'd like to point out, we get nowhere by calling names. It would be far better to disagree respectfully.
Sorry this particular post was dethreaded - should have been attached to the posting about "Afrocentric homophobes" which I thought was out of line.
This comments section is full of "I never hear the LBGT community repudiate racism toward AAs." Do you even notice that this section is full of LGBT people repudiating racism toward AAs? Also, there is repudiation by the heads of all of our national organizations, and many of our community centers. You will not hear it, if you refuse to listen to it.
Racism is a terrible problem in just about every community in our country - no matter how it is directed.
Homophobia, and yes, heterophobia, are also present in every community in our country.
We can also add to that a huge list of other ways in which people treat each other unfairly and in a way which denies the humanity and dignity of others.
Rather than spending time counting our wounds, let's start doing the hard work of helping each other heal this country.
Dan if this repudiation of hate was on national tv I didn't see it. Please if I am wrong and a gay spokesperson came on CNN, FOX, an or MSNBC and stated that they apologized to black people then I stand to be corrected. When did this happen?
Hi Tanya, you know we are on very different sides of this issue.
As far as what happened to the gay AA brother at the West Hollywood rally, and apology is in order.
But when will the AA community apologize for its blantant disrespect and disregard for our gay people. I am so sick of them acting like we don't exist. There would be very little or no AA culture without gay folks (black and white) and they (especially the church) need to stand up and recognize!
Call me wrong. I don't care.
If everyone in the LGBT apologized on TV tommorow, I believe you would only change your tune to "too little to late."
You have claimed to not be anti-gay. What difference does it make? If you act anti-gay, and promise to always vote against gays interests, you might as well be anti-gay. It's all the same to us.
Right? Just like, if someone says they are not racist, but tells you that they will always make decisions which negatively affect you solely because of your race - what difference does it make if they are racist or not? They may as well be.
Let's stop acting like we are racist, and let's stop acting like we are anti-gay. Let's stop acting in a manner which is disrespectful or unfair to each other in any way. Let's start acting like we care about each other as fellow human beings and Americans. We are big enough to do that, even when our feelings have been hurt.
It really is unfortunate that we as human beings are so caught up in our own psychology of victimization that we turn a blind eye to the injustices that we do against others. Although the same sex marriage issue is moot up here, I see the same kind of attitudes from some blacks (especially from the Caribbean) re gays and lesbians. I do outreach for an HIV/AIDS organization and one of the leading causes of new infections in our community is this type of stigma that pushes the issue underground. Men who have sex with men engage in all kinds of risky behaviours with both sexes because of the pressures to live up to an image of the black male, while fighting their natural urge to be with another man. I say enjoy your life and stop worrying about what other people are doing. Maybe take the time to talk to them and you'll see that for the most part we all want the same thing in life, be it black, white, Asian, gay, straigt...
Cudos to Byron Williams for tackling this issue. As a Canadian, I just can't wrap my head around this debate. Same sex marriage has been legal here for almost six years and the sky hasn't fallen! I must say that as a straight black woman I am doubly dissapointed by the absolute bigotry and hypocrisy that some blacks use to justify their homophobia. Oddly enough, the same arguments that are used to bash gays have been and continued to be used to oppress blacks. You could just insert "black" in any of the argumetns and see how you like it. I have to agree with the posters who commented about the game of playing the biggest victim.
Thank you...exce
Pastor Williams, thanks for bringing a moderate and respectful call for open minds. Now that the hate trolls are here, the thread is over, but your attempt to begin a civil conversation is commendable.
Amen!
I apologize to the African-Americans who feel insulted and offended by the callous disregard for your ancestry and history of oppression. It's truly sad that forty years later, even with a biracial President, whites still cannot understand what you all have gone through, and how and why you feel the way you do about the civil rights movement.
We should all stand together, but only mutual respect. MUTUAL. RESPECT. Not respect based on a mandate and political-
Those in the gay community who intentionally insult and offend you DO NOT respect you. They do not "love" you. They don't care about Dr. King or Coretta Scott King. They don't care about any of the discriminatory policies you all have faced, or the echos of their vestiges which we can still hear today.
They only care about their gain. You owe them NOTHING.
Tru Dat!!!!!!
White gays denounce your haters -Just like Obama had to throw out Rev Wright.
There are plenty of us who *did* denounce the people in our community who blamed blacks for prop 8. Perhaps you just don't want to hear that because it gives you an excuse to continue to be homophobic?
Denounce your haters as well....th
You talk about mutual respect. It goes both ways.
http://www
Denounce
Careful, the strings and wheels of your creaking propaganda machine are showing.
LOL!
Whatever you say...
You're laying it on a bit thick there, don't you think?
No.
Lesbians and Gay Men are not showing callous disregard for the Black experience in America by drawing comparisons. There is a world of difference between saying something is similar to a thing, and saying it is exactly like that thing. Just because people don't get the difference doesn't mean Gay non-Black people are being racist. It just means that the people who don't get it are ignorant. Anyone who makes a racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. comment should be called out for that comment. Making a whole group of people responsible for that comment is bigotry. If you want to call out the bigots, then call out ALL of the bigots.
"There is a world of difference between saying something is similar to a thing, and saying it is exactly like that thing."
Exactly. I'm always amazed at how many people simply don't understand the definition of the word "compare".
The bigots are the ones who continue to draw parallels they know are offensive and divisive. So I'm calling them out. If you want to have a separate discussion about blacks being homophobic, fine, but don't try to start it in the midst of defending behavior that solicits antagonistic responses.
While your at it, why dont you go ahead and apologize to all of the Gandhian followers of Satyagraha who influenced Dr. King, and shaped his legacy, because surely your claim to a racially pure civil rights movement is an absolute affront to the international anti-colonial movement, the sister movement of the American civil rights movement.
Lets get into a little history--remember Bayard Rustin? His name has been bandied about these postings all day--I think I remember you saying earlier that you didn't know who he was, and that he must of been trivial. Well, if we keep our history in mind, brother, it was Rustin who taught Dr. King Gandhian principles of nonviolence, as it was Rustin who worked in Satyagraha campaigns in India and Ghana. He helped bring this philosophy, and all the anti colonial support for the AA civil rights movement to the struggle. He was Gay, African American, and didn't need to choose sides because it was clear that the struggle for Civil Rights is not the exclusive province of African Americans.
gays relate to blacks because discrimination is at the heart of both issues. of course it is oranges and apples, an ethnic group and a so called 'lifestyle" . I dont have a "lifestyle'. I havent been in a gay bar in 30 years. I just have a life! and I would suggest there is as much of a 'lifestyle ' in being black as there is a 'lifestyle' in being gay. it is a shame and sad that so many african americans shun gays, who , for the most part, have a great understanding and sympathy for their plight. certainly my experience as a gay man in this society has made me far far more understanding of my black brothers, straight or gay. gay folks just standing at the door knockin to get in just like black folks been standing at the door knockin to get in!
Good point! Even Obama has been on the receiving end of that--remember when people wondered whether he was "black enough" to get black people's votes?
Correction: white people wondered was he black enough to get black people's votes. They were for him from the get-go.
I can't even read this type of stuff anymore. It's a joke. It's like gays try to rewrite history to suit their causes. It's a shame that so many White gays are caught up in the "Shame on Black Folks" game that they don't even recognize thier own racism and White entitlement. Remarkable.
hi kut--they don't care
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