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C. Cryn Johannsen

C. Cryn Johannsen

Posted: December 20, 2010 03:52 AM

I am currently gathering research for a longer article about suicide and student loan debt. Earlier this week, Matt Stannard from Shared Sacrifice interviewed me about the subject.

Since that interview, I've received a few posts from people who have informed me that they fully intend to off themselves (see the most recent comments here and here). As a result of these disturbing posts, I have asked many of you to come out in support of struggling individuals, and tell them that nothing -- not even Everest-sized mountains of student loan debt - ought to lead them to committing suicide. Thanks to all of you who have posted comments of support so far. Trust me, it helps. Several people have told me that if it weren't for me - and others who are raising holy hell about the student lending crisis - they would have killed themselves long ago. So please, if you haven't posted something supportive, think about doing it now. You never know, your own story about feeling similarly could safe a life.

So many people are hurting, and so many people are thinking about killing themselves. These people aren't crazy. Far from it. They are approaching their indebtedness from a rational perspective, and sadly suicide seems like a viable choice. That's not out of the norm. When there are severe economic downturns, people often turn to drastic measures to get out of a hopeless predicament. Financial ruin leads many healthy people to an early grave, and quite often it's from their own hand. As Barbara Ehrenreich stated quite frankly in an article from 2008 entitled, "Suicide Spreads as One Solution to the Debt Crisis," when people feel backed up against a wall, it's only natural for them to say, "Just shoot me!" At that time, many people who found their homes being repossessed chose to proclaim, "I'll just shoot myself!"

After listening to my interview, a reader let me know that they contemplate jumping from the 27th floor of their work every day.

Here's what they wrote:

Cryn, I listened to your interview and cried for hours. I graduated from law school with honors back in 2003 and never found a job as an attorney. I've worked a bunch of odd jobs the last 7 years just to survive. I've been a retail worker, a call center worker, a housekeeper, a dishwasher, and a temp - seriously, it seems like I've been everything except what I went to school for! I know my life is ruined and that I will never be a practicing attorney. I get it, really I do. After all, I'm around attorneys 24/7 in my current job and they look down their noses at me or else just ignore me. I am a loser and no one wants to be around a loser or else they might become one to. I try to remind myself that my life wasn't always like this - that people used to like me and that I had a lot going for me in college and even law school. However, after years of being snubbed and treated so terribly, I have learned to be as invisible as possible and to keep to myself. I'm sure that gives everyone at work a good laugh - then they can say I'm anti-social or not good with people and therefore not attorney material.

I could live without being a practicing attorney but what I can't get over is the fact I ruined my life by borrowing $100,000 to go to law school. I thought I was making a really good investment in myself because I believed in myself back then. I knew I would do well in school, and I guess I thought I would get a job and be able to pay back my loans. How incredibly wrong I turned out to be. Even if I am able to get out of student loan debt, I will be starting over from scratch. Zero savings. Zero retirement. Zero career options.

Every day I think about jumping out the 27th floor window of the office building where I am currently working to escape the mess I have made of my life. I am in so deep now, there is no way out. I used to keep myself up at night thinking about how I would ever pay my student loans off, but now I keep myself up at night, wondering if this is really how the next 30 years of my life will be - always moving from one dead-end job to the next, always being looked down at by attorneys (and even non-attorneys when they find out I'm an attorney but not working as one), always feeling so sick to my stomach that I can't hardly even eat anymore. I used to worry about starving to death if I couldn't afford to buy food if I never found a job, but now I don't have to worry about that because I have no appetite! Maybe I will just wither away and finally be put out of my misery. I really don't think I can keep doing this for another 7 years, let alone the rest of my life. I don't know what to do. While I haven't completely given up, I don't think it's that far around the corner. . .

I'm sorry this is long and depressing, but it's nice to get this all out. I am not asking anyone to forgive my student loans; I fully intend to pay back every last cent I borrowed. I just want to feel like all of my hard work and sacrifice was worth it, instead of always feeling humiliated, embarrassed, ashamed, bitter and angry. I'm so tired of feeling this way - I just want the pain to go away. Thanks for listening.

As Matt Stannard asked, and I'll reiterate, how many people aren't reaching out to me? How many people will wither away, jump from buildings, or drink themselves to death because of their debt?

 

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12:06 PM on 02/07/2011
Hi! I go to Columbia Journalism School and I'm doing an in-depth story on student loan debt because, well, I'm in debt myself and I think it's a huge issue in this country. For my project I'm looking to share the stories of people in loan debt at all different points in their lives. If you'd like to be a part of it (we can discuss privacy and anonymity) please let me know! tremblay.caitlinm (at) gmail (dot) com.
04:01 PM on 01/15/2011
The entire educational system is broken. Foreigners get grants and fellowships before citizens in the name of cultural diversity. It is wrong. At least allow citizens to discharge their debts. My comment is NOT intended to disparage foreign students but if I have to explain the inherent unfairness in a system that finds free money for students of other nations, but cannot find it in its heart to allow people struggling to discharge debt, then I throw my hands up.

My history is fuzzy. But, I believe one principle this nation was founded upon was the ability to escape indentured servitude. The concepts of bankruptcy and becoming a WHOLE person again was one tenet to this principle.

In no way can a rasonable person state that disaalowing student loans in bankrupotcy follows the principles that AMerica was founded upon. Teh bankruptcy laws should prtect the individual's needs, not corporate needs.

If the gentleman in a previous comment is correct that "then banks would not loan" then we need to figure out a different funding mechanism as a society. Keeping people in indentured servitude, coming up with repayment schemes like, "well, if you work as a a teacher in some inner city where you can be shot for 10 years then you only owe X amount" is NOT a solution.
11:33 AM on 01/10/2011
The woman in the article needs to see a spiritual counselor - someone who can help her take a look at her beliefs about herself. She is creating her reality. NOTHING is impossible.
09:56 AM on 12/30/2010
The absurd cost of U.S. College and grad school is caused by THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

1.The government provides a huge pool of federally backed loans;
2. Said loans trough has no underwiriting standards;
3. There is no discussion or concern from the government as to whether you will be able to pay the money back (and the colleges do not care);
4. Crucially, the government, deapite providing the vast majority of money for these colleges, does not regulate the tuition these colleges can charge; and
5. Strip away all bankruptcy protections for student loans (apart from the impossibly high undue hardship standard).

"Private colleges" are really private in name only. Sure, some of them have large endowments...however most of them rely on the federally backed loan system. In essense, both public and nominally private colleges are publicly funded. It makes no sense for the federal government to provide all this money and not regulate price.

The colleges are only acting rationally, (if not morally) in raising tuition 7/8% every year for the past 20/30 years. Talk to some of your elders....they used to be able to work a summer job and save enough money to go pay the tuition at college for the next year!! We need to scrap the government backed loan system...then you will see tuition come down to affordable levels....then have colleges provide scholarships to able students who still cannot afford to pay.
11:30 AM on 01/04/2011
right on nobody seems to graps this. Colleges have no incentive to control costs becuase they can always look to the federal govenrment to finance their customers step for step any time they want to increase costs
04:09 PM on 01/15/2011
The federal government is their drug dealer. We need more money, cool we will raise tuition. Oh, don't worry, students won't drop out. The government and society tells them that dropping out of school is the worse thing to do. They'll just get loans and stay in school, and we keep getting our money....

It's a wonderful system. The Mafia couldn't do any better...
06:29 PM on 12/27/2010
First off, anyone who is seriously suicidal over student loans very possibly may have other mental health issues, such as depression.

That said, part of the problem lies in a couple areas. First, the insistance that everyone goes to college. Not everyone should go to college, there are many great and necessary jobs that don't require a college education. Not everyone is cut out for college, for various reasons. So many students go to college because it is expected.

Secdondly, many people, including those in the previous group major in less than ideal majors. Many of these majors like philosophy or communications don't have a lot of real world advantages. My wifes friend majored in English with a concentration in poetty, how is that going to help get a real job. So, many of these people will have a harder time than other graduates finding jobs or at least jobs that pay as well as other grads with more useful degrees.

Finally, there is also pressure to finish school in 4 years, so these students work part time mainly for spending money. I took 6 years (went in the summer as well) and worked full time. I made about $15-20k a year. I left school with under $10k in loans. Yes, I lost 2 years in the work force, but that savings on 10+ years of interest and loan payments of $100 a month more than makes up for it.

Smart planning beforehand can help future students.
senseandnonsense
Trapeze artist
09:50 PM on 12/25/2010
It sounds as if you should be writers! As Reverend Ike used to say, "If I owe someone money, why should I worry?"
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Mike Kopac
06:24 PM on 12/24/2010
what does higher education cost in Europe ? very little..... do you know why ?
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Senseid
10:43 PM on 12/24/2010
The vast majority of universities in Europe are public, not private. Their relatively higher tax rate and greater emphasis on social services means that governments have traditionally subsidized education to a far greater degree than ours have here.
11:06 AM on 12/25/2010
1. The universities are all public
2. They don't have dorms rooms and meal plans like all-inclusive vacation resorts - students must arrange and pay for their own living expenses
3. The universities are for academia ONLY. They do not have sports teams, stadiums, gyms, swimming pools, concerts and events, etc.
4. Not everybody can go to college in Europe, you must pass an entrance exam or portfolio review to be admitted. In the US, every citizen is a potential "customer" to higher education and can enroll. Not so in Europe, there is a far smaller pool of potential students.
5. And this is the most important reason of all - there are no student loans in continental Europe, so education must remain affordable to people. If every young European could suddenly borrow up to $80K from the EU to spend on higher education, the cost of that education would suddenly rise to $80K. We make this huge line of credit easily available to all citizens, Europe makes sure that the students who ARE college material don't need to go into debt to get the education.
12:08 PM on 12/24/2010
Organize politically. Use the Internet to build a power base. You all have the talent to do it. Power only respects other power! The effort will be supported by others like me who don't still have student debt but who have gone thru the experience. It will also help get you "outside of yourselves" which you really need. Don' t give up but don't try to struggle alone. Strength in numbers. We need each other to fight the corrupt and the unjust. Seize the day!
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belle27
11:53 AM on 12/24/2010
I remember what it was like to be 18. There is no real way for a person that age to get their head around what a student loan of $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 or more means in terms of how long it will take to pay it back, even in the best of circumstances. And yet, they are allowed to sign their lives away to something that is almost impossible to get out from under. How is it that a young person who has never had a full-time job and has never lived on their own can take out a loan like that, but it is extremely difficult for a mature adult with a work and credit history to get a loan these days?

The system is indeed broken -- it is usury to allow students to sign their names on loans this high. And it is appalling that higher education has gotten so expensive that students and their parents would even conceive of allowing them to put themselves in this situation.
12:50 PM on 12/24/2010
I remember signing Sallie Mae papers each year in college for loans, and having no clue how much they were even for. I think I looked one year and it was something like $3K, so I figured oh well small enough. I graduated, didn't know how much I owed, but was relieved that the total came to only $12K, plus $1K from a community organization I'd totally forgotten about. I paid it ALL off quickly but the thought of having the loans and financial aid all organized by my mother, me having no clue (and being too young and immature to understand anyway) really scares me in retrospect.
04:03 PM on 01/15/2011
Even worse, at 18 you think you are so smart. You think the world is your oyster. You think that everything will go your way. You think, well, those other people couldn't pay because they did not do things right. I'm going to do it right.
09:52 AM on 12/24/2010
Wow. I'm glad I avoided the mistake of applying to law school (I thought about it in college, didn't do it, but probably would have been rejected anyway). As much as I want to advocate personal responsibility in all situations, especially paying back what you borrow, if I were in this situation I personally don't think I'd have the strength to work minimum wage jobs for my whole life trying to pay it off. I think I'd be somewhere in Mexico or Thailand by now, with no intention of coming back to the US (if you leave the country and never come back, they can't MAKE you pay). And heck maybe I'd even be able to practice law in another country...
05:21 AM on 12/24/2010
I might have chosen the 'wrong' school, the 'wrong' major, and top this with a bad economy- must I be condemned to a lifetime of harassment and lower standard of living just because I could not afford to pay for school? Am I really supposed to just shut up and let my mind waste away, possibly working in a job I hate, because whole sectors of our economy are going overseas? Should any of us?

BK protection must be restored to student loans. We risk creating a society where only a rare few will be able to go to college, as grants continue to dry up in this age of austerity, tuition spirals upward, and the word about this devilish debt continues to spread.There are also many stuck in default, being tortured with the hopes that they will one day be allowed to be a productive part of society and our economy, rather than a "risk and liability" from bad credit scores and wage garnishments. Why?

I know it's tough to not see a way out of this hole- and I cannot say my mind hasn't contemplated suicide from time to time from all the stress my debts cause- but please try to hang in there, try to stick by friends and family during these tough times. You are not alone! It is essential for this battle that as many of us are heard, seen, and are willing to fight until the end as possible, for change to happen!
01:47 PM on 12/25/2010
There is no nice way to say this.Your actions,combined with an ed establishment ,have combined to place you in a very bad position.Larry Niven,a hard sci fi Grandmaster has one of his characters proclaim,"Stupidity can be a Capital crime." And, I don't want BK protection to student loans..So many people,who have shown no capacity for serious work have gravitated to the weaker disciplines, I feel letting them declare bankruptcy would keep the fields full.The world doesn't need another tens of thousands of hums majors looking for a grant.
unfortunately,for so many depts,it's a Ponzi scheme that benefits the tenured fculty, but not the kids.
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angelcakesinc
Tolerance of intolerance is intolerable
02:42 AM on 01/08/2011
Hold on, are you denigrating the humanities? As a recently graduated English major, I take offense to this. While math and science might drive industry, it is we in the humanities that drive culture. It is we who write and film your movies, write your plays, make your art, create the newest generation of literature. We are the ones who write the speeches of those in power. We are the ones that make people stop and think, question authority, and allow the people to be something more than mere corporate wage slaves even in a dire economy. We may be in bad economic times but advocating for the dismantling of the humanities serves no one. It will be the death of culture in America as we know it. What's more, the humanities are far from being frivolous artistic endeavors. English is one of the only disciplines that teaches critical thinking anymore. Nobody knows how to write anymore, except us. I used to hear it from professors all the time. Any time a non English class assigned a paper I always got an A, regardless of the subject, because my major taught me how to craft a convincing argument, present evidence, and take on counter claims in a convincing and authoritative manner. So don't you DARE tell me that the humanities don't teach anyone anything, because it taught me the most important thing anyone can ever learn. It taught me how to think.
11:18 PM on 12/23/2010
Please keep up the pressure on this issue. President Obama has been so disappointing on this issue. I cannot express in words how disappointed I am in Obama on this issue. With all the money in the stimulus package, you mean some money could not be used to forgive student loan debt? You mean to tell me there is no money to reward people who tried to do the right thing in life and become educated?

I understand where this person is coming from. Unfortunately, people make up artificial rules. One artificial rule is that if you have not worked in your field for X amount of years, you become unemployable. The student loan people don't give a dam...and Obama doesn't either. If he did, he would have done something.

I filed chapter 7 bankruptcy and it was discharged in January 2009. By definition and common sense, that means I was (and still am) suffering financial hardship. SO TELL ME PLEASE, why am i unable to include my student loan debts? Bankruptcy is suppose to make a person WHOLE and give a fresh start.
THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN! WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO FILE BANKRUPTCY ON 100% OF THE LOAN. WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO GO BACK AND AMEND OUT BANKRUPTCY IF WE HAVE ALREADY FILED! OBAMA NEEDS TO LEAD!!!

No, I have not given serious consideration to suicide,..but I have given serious consideration to leaving the country, which I might still do.
senseandnonsense
Trapeze artist
09:55 PM on 12/25/2010
Student loans and child support are two nondischargeable debts in bankruptcy. The latter, for obvious reasons, the former, because no one would ever lend to students if the loans were dischargeable... That is, unless you possess collateral, which very few students have.
03:49 PM on 01/15/2011
Really..No one?..then how did so many people get loans prior to student loans becoming dischargable? I know people personally that included their student loans in bankruptcy prior to the laws changing and the US did not collapse. In fact, these people simply diverted the funds into buying a home, raising a family, buying a car, and so forth.

I'd like to ask another question, why is so much free money in the form of grants and fellowships given to foreign students, but citizens get DEBT?

I promise you that at Texas A&M I personally witnessed people who are foreigners get free money, while I received debt. When I asked about it. I was told "...well, you see, they are not eligible for loans, so to keep them in the program we allocate the fellowships primarily to people who are not already at the university to entice them" That was actually a paraphrase, but that was the point. Foreigners are not eligible for loans, citizens are..there is only so much money available in the form of fellowships...so programs play games with the allocation of funds to keep "diversity"..diversity before treating your own citizens fairly...

The concept that NO ONE would get loans if loans were dischargable is asinine. Schools would be forced to cut costs and watch the bottom. The system would restructure, but just as before, people would still get loans. College might actually become affordable.
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NYCBri
12:40 PM on 12/23/2010
I know the difficult emotions and financial issues facing this student. I too was a law student that graduated with nearly 110k in debt. I was lucky and had 2 years in a big firm but after that ended there weren't any (or very many) attorney jobs available. The 911 recession never ended for the legal industry and it just got worse with the Great Recession and the continued willful ignorance of law schools peddling false hopes to potential law students. Ever inc'ing numbers of graduates without a corresponding increase in jobs means more law students graduating with 100k in debt each but no jobs waiting for them.

I also had a progressive outlook long before the word progressive was being used. I read Krugman and Dean Baker years before the recession, knew a mortgage related crisis was imminent, and was able to resist the persistent pressure from family and friends to buy a house. I was persistent, going without (often eating little more than pb and j for dinner, stopped going out to expensive social events), and work in temp attorney jobs.

In 6 of the longest years of my life I was able to pay off all of my student loan debt. Unfortunately, right after I did this, the Great Recession hit and my skills in frugality became necessary again due to inconsistent employment.

Freedom from debt is not impossible, it just takes persistence, determination, and willpower. I'm not going to lie... it's tough but doable.
11:30 PM on 12/23/2010
The problem with that story is it makes people who are unaware believe that all situations are the same or that simply by living frugally one can pay off debt. This might have worked in your situation, but not in everyone's situation will this work.

I am 46. I went back to school at an older age because even after my bachelor degree I was never able to get a decent job. I thought going back to school to get an advance degree would help my prospects. At 46, I have no energy left to work long hours and I have grown tired of sacrifice. I have been sacrificing for far too long. It would be one thing to be 26 and sacrifice 6 years...but, when does it end? As I mention in my previous post. If a person is eligible for bankruptcy, as I was, then student loans should be included.

No one should have to live a worse life for going to school. A person who doesn't go to school might say..hey, I am eating P and J because I should have gone to school. A person who went to school, should not have to say, I am eating P and J because I did go to school. The system is broken.

ALLOW PEOPLE TO FILE BANKRUPTCY! ALLOW PREVIOUS BANKRUPTCIES TO BE AMENDED!
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Jeffrey Garza Falcon
03:17 PM on 12/27/2010
The loss of job opportunities is still tied to the growing gap of redistribution of wealth to the top. Also, the gutting of the manufacturing industry has caused more people chasing college degrees as a means of escaping the prospect of having to work jobs as cashiers, clerks, and temps.
09:52 AM on 12/22/2010
Please hang in there - transform your relationship with this debt - go to an anonymous meeting for debtors - it will help - google it.
09:48 PM on 12/21/2010
Suicide as a way out of student loans has been around since the late 80's when congress stripped away the last consumer protections on student loans. Other people choose the option of leaving their home country, never to return, living in exhile, so that they can earn a living and be able to retire.

Student loan debt is the only real Debtors prison in existance in the USA. It may not have walls, nor bars on windows and doors, but a prison it is, as it never lets you otherwise succeed in life. And it haunts you every minute of every hour of every day. Combined with the draconian collections powers, it makes people give up even trying to deal with the ever growing debt.

Congress has known about this for over 30 years. Only now, with a ruined economy, are they finally seeing the results, - mainly because they can no longer hide it.

Please who ever reads this, do not choose suicide. Join the fight to get our consumer protections restored, and to get some real reform and relief made available for those of us in default. We need numbers, and you diminish them when you move on to the next reality via suicide.