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Carol Muske-Dukes

Carol Muske-Dukes

Posted: January 20, 2011 12:07 AM

On Jan. 19th, the New York Times ran a national feature entitled "Shooting in Arizona" -- a speculative piece on why Jared L. Loughner's mental deterioration wasn't "caught" prior to his shooting spree. The article was just one more in a series of soul-searchers in the press, part of a national hand-wringing about the difficulty in identifying and assisting disturbed students in funding psychiatric care.

I'm here to tell you that, based on my experience as a professor of English/Creative Writing who has taught in colleges and universities for many years -- it is not that difficult to pinpoint students who represent danger to themselves and others -- what is most difficult is getting administrators to listen to warnings about these individuals.

Just about every teacher/professor I know has had an "incident" with a disruptive and potentially violent student over the years. Not many of these teachers have been "heard" when reporting potential trouble. Notice the news reports on the Virginia Tech shooter, whose creative writing teacher, (the poet Nikk Giovanni) picked up on something frightening in the imaginative writings of the young man who ended up shooting classmates -- and the recent testimony of the math teacher at the community college where Jared Loughner was a student. Both complained about the erratic and threatening behavior of these students and asked for action on the part of administration in protecting faculty and students.

There was a brief headline or two about Arizona being one of the few states that allow school authorities and others to act on reports of potential violence. Loughner could have been detained and ultimately committed in Arizona, based on such complaints.

Nothing much was made of this -- and the press went back to scratching its collective head about the difficulty in diagnosing and getting a troubled individual to psychiatric treatment.

In fact, teachers (along with their students) are on the front lines when it comes to both diagnosing and sustaining the damages inflicted by those who are disruptive and delusional. Outside of Arizona, when a teacher indicates to administration that there is something very wrong with an individual in a classroom and asks for help with this person -- the reaction is pretty standard. Beyond suggestions that the student be encouraged to "seek help" on his own -- the "Wait until the threat is acted upon" policy is handed down with little in the way of further guidance or support.

Here's just one war story of my own. Many years ago, I was invited to teach at a famous and prestigious Writers' Workshop in the Midwest. I taught a writing workshop and also a seminar on modernist women writers. One of the writers who took my seminar was a young man about my own age, whose work had already been published and seemed like a model student. However, he came to my office one day acting in a delusional manner. He told me that he had stopped taking his "lithium" because he didn't need it anymore. He told me that he was the best writer/poet on campus, the best in the country -- and would prove it. He also told me that he was attracted to me and that we would be married. I spoke to him at length, suggesting he go back on his medication -- and finally he seemed to calm down. However, he did not resume his medication and soon began acting out in my seminar. He would shout out inappropriate comments while I was lecturing -- and he began smoking in class and throwing his cigarette butts on the floor -- one time he threw a lit cigarette at a fellow student. He became louder and more belligerent -- students were frightened and afraid to come to class.

I went to the head of the Writers' Workshop and asked for help. I was astonished to hear that nothing could be done "until he actually does something to hurt someone."

He did. This disturbed student pushed over chairs in my seminar one day and raged out of the classroom. He showed up at a student bar on campus, where he picked a fight with the bartender. The bartender "86'd" him and when he did so -- the young man broke a beer bottle on the bar and lunged at the bartender, attempting to cut his throat with the broken glass. He was taken to a psychiatric facility on campus and when he was asked about relatives he told the doctors that I was his wife.

This is just one story -- as I said, there are many. Almost as many as there are college classroom teachers.

I don't know if the "wait until blood flows" reaction is based on legal precedent -- or if administration are protecting themselves from lawsuits and higher insurance premiums.

What I do know is that experienced teachers are good at diagnosing truly disturbed and threatening behavior -- and asking that this behavior be taken seriously before tragedy occurs. We know when something is wrong -- it's not just Reading, Writing and 'Rithmetic -- it's Reading, Writing and Reporting Responsibly when a desperate individual needs psychiatric help -- before it's too late.

 
On Jan. 19th, the New York Times ran a national feature entitled "Shooting in Arizona" -- a speculative piece on why Jared L. Loughner's mental deterioration wasn't "caught" prior to his shooting spre...
On Jan. 19th, the New York Times ran a national feature entitled "Shooting in Arizona" -- a speculative piece on why Jared L. Loughner's mental deterioration wasn't "caught" prior to his shooting spre...
 
 
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09:35 PM on 01/23/2011
Obviously discretion must be used. This is a very difficult topic. We want to prevent horrible incidents, yet we do not want to destroy or mark someone for a bit of eccentricity.
08:55 PM on 01/23/2011
Had a 7 year old boy at a school in Australia.

He was totally out of control, would pull books, computers and stuff on the floor.
You couldn't discipline him because time out didn't bother him in the least (most children that age get really upset).

He would get other pupils to squeeze his hand really hard, or to punch him in the face, and would do the same to others.

He was clearly autistic, and needed to be in a controlled environment.

The principal and the other teachers insisted he was okay and acted up "because of his background". There were no places at the special school so the department refused to do an assessment.
04:51 PM on 01/23/2011
This is not strictly a crime problem. It is more importantl­y a public health problem. We are free in America, yes, but if one of my patients tests positive for TB, or for one of several STDs, I have to report it, and public health follows up with the patient. Hospitals routinely test new patients for MRSA upon admission. As a democracy, our representa­tives have rightly decided that it is in all of our best interests that certain freedoms and privacy rights must be limited if the general public is in danger.

Mental illness is a public health issue. These students who are clearly acting mentally ill need to be evaluated and, if they pose a threat or can't care for their own needs, treated. We already have "mandatory reporter" laws and a due process outlined if teachers, health care workers and others suspect child abuse. There should also be a law, with a clear due process outlined, that teachers, employers, and health care workers can follow to protect themselves legally, report and help the mentally ill student, and protect the community.
08:51 PM on 01/23/2011
Could not agree with you more. The issue, I think, is that once the TB or STD patients are moved into the system, there actually is a system. In my former state, a public health nurse would come by every day to make sure that a TB patient took their meds. There is nothing downstream for mental health. There will be with HCR, but there is little that states will do beyond medicate. That started courtesy of Ronald Reagan, the faux high priest of the right who would probably not be allowed to attend an RNC convention these days.
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healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
09:59 PM on 01/24/2011
Used to be in California anybody could call local LE and ask for a psychiatric hold on somebody, had to give reasons why, they would go out and talk to the person, if they agreed, was taken in for help.
10:54 AM on 01/25/2011
Totally. And, like you're saying in this post: Let's get our history straight! The destruction of the state mental health care safety net was NOT because of some liberal philosophy of mentally ill people benefitting from living in the community, or having something special about our society to teach us. The mental health care safety net was DEFUNDED by wealthy REPUBLICANS who just didn't want to pay taxes.
04:03 PM on 01/23/2011
Problem like this exists only in US. Something is seriously broken is educational system here. Beginning in elementary school, virtual non-existence of discipline in class coexists with prison-like order in school corridors. Consistent bullying and abuse in class is not being addressed properly by the teachers. Lack of teacher's education and professional training in child psichology aggravates the situation.
It's easy to blame the child who was raised in confusing school order chool like this, especially the "outsider" child who was constantly abused over the years.
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healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
10:00 PM on 01/24/2011
No we have this insane idea everybody should be in the same classroom. In other countries they are removed and taught separately. In an institution if need be.
12:26 AM on 01/26/2011
"Problem like this exists only in US." If only. I'm afraid this problem is as intense in Canada and Australia, in the primary, secondary, and tertiary education systems. Where I teach in a liberal arts university, students are now considered clients who cherry-pick the terms of their own education (including whether they even attend class and whether they'd prefer to cruise Facebook and ebay while in class rather than listen to some of the best minds lecture). Arts programs are so desperate for students in the face of declining enrolments (in favour of professional degrees like Law or Pscyhology) that administrators turn the other way, in the face of bullying, cheating, and borderline pscyhotic behavior. In the primary and secondary systems, so I've been told, it's now impossible to send a student home on an explusion or a suspension if both parents are at work, which is increasingly the case. Teachers' hands are tied.
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ReadMyLipstick1
It can't be that hard.
02:23 PM on 01/23/2011
This piece sums up many problems involving kids/young people out of control and needing attention before someone is hurt. HP had a recent article which was moved on before I got back to read it, involving an elem. sch. teacher who heard one of students speak about bringing a gun to school and killing someone. Her superiors would not act on her warning. She allegedly reported the incident then to the local authorities, and they took action. This teacher apparently now has a problem with her school district and is being sued by someone. This seems to be the results when someone does take responsibility to report something not right. And that unto itself is not right. People, we can't have it both ways. If a child reports to school officials that his parents are harming him in some way, the child is taken from the home and then the authorities ask questions. Why is the scenerio different when we believe a child is about to do something dangerous to himself or others?
01:49 PM on 01/23/2011
We might look at writer's comments on the Huffington Post, too. I've read some that give me the 'close to the breaking point' vibe. I know Huffpo blocks certain content or users who post threats, but blocking dangerous individuals or banning them from classrooms and expelling them from schools only isolates them further, moving them further from help. What to do?
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JoeyDee2
I know what just passed here
01:42 PM on 01/23/2011
I had a scary student last summer in an Amer. Lit. class. Made incongruous comments. He called someone's opinion stupid and I jumped on him and said that's not allowed here. At the end of class he would stay behind, sitting in the back staring at me as I packed up. Then he turned in his paper; incoherent rambling. I went to the Dean. He was "nice" to me, but here's the rub: he knew about this character, and shared some bizarre behavior recorded from another class.

I made a mistake at that point. I should have demanded that he be removed but I realized I would not be supported if he had been allowed to continue after previous infractions. The Dean told me it was his last course there. Just let him go. I raised the issue: and are we passing along a problem to someone else? The Dean didn't take the bait. This student could have been the Jared character. Next time I won't be so acquiescent. I'm an adjunct ("part-time", no professional status, low pay). I'm not compensated well enough to babysit psychotics.
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ReadMyLipstick1
It can't be that hard.
02:27 PM on 01/23/2011
It seems that everyone's attitude about issues such as the one you were involved in, is to "let it go". I have seen this outside the educational system on numerous occasions. It occurs everywhere. Some one who acts a little "off" or abnormal, is ignored, with the mindset to be ignore him and he'll go away (and become someone else's problem".) How far do you stick your neck out?
03:46 PM on 01/23/2011
and where is that student now?
graduated w/o incident? if yes, then you were incorrect in your assessment
had the student done something which actually violated the school's code of conduct and for which he could be expelled? if no, then you might still have made the demand but legally the school could not meet that demand w/o violating the students rights and the contract that is established upon acceptance of admission and the collection of tuition

that is not to say you're concerns are invalid, just to remind that the laws protect students from arbitrary action against them: for example asking someone be removed from class b/c you didn't like their point of view and dirty looks - as unpleasant as those things may be they are not criminal, they are protected expression
09:01 PM on 01/23/2011
I would disagree. At some point, freedom of expression becomes a verbal assault. I don't know how to define that, but it is the reason for hate crimes laws. There is a line. Having a student hang back while you pack up alone in a classroom is getting real close to it.
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JoeyDee2
I know what just passed here
06:45 AM on 01/24/2011
He was disruptive and made other students uncomfortable. What about their rights and tuition? The "contract" in the classroom is civil discourse. He violated it before he even got to me so it's not a question of disliking his dirty looks.
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phnxrth
12:44 PM on 01/23/2011
Maybe we need classes in lone wolf handling. Hopefully if any lone wolves showed up they might learn something.
03:51 PM on 01/23/2011
the psychologists will tell you that loners are no more likely to be violent than other types of people
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/who-we-are/201101/lets-stop-stereotyping-loners
(the author of the post in the link gives his personal opinion and cites one study - however there are a number of other studies concluding the same)
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phnxrth
06:28 PM on 01/23/2011
Not to contradict your point, yetiwatcher. I was only half kidding, noticing there has been an increase in violent acts by individuals outside of any organized structure. That's what "lone wolf" refers to. It occurs to me that even most acts of organized terrorism are committed by individuals. I think it helps cut the problem down to size.
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Punks
12:15 PM on 01/23/2011
And schools aren't the only place where adults in charge are at risk. I work at a public library, often solo and interract with teens that are sometimes in distress and occasionally high. At least there is a policy that anti social/dangerous behavior is not tolerated and people will be asked to leave. That same support was not so woopy when I was in the public schools. There is far too much concern about offending an off the wall litigation happy parent. Tough stuff. Teachers and librarians are often called upon to be the be alls for society. Not possible.
11:26 AM on 01/23/2011
As a fellow teacher, I recommend ejecting disruptive students from the classroom. The first time a disruption occurs, you inform the student that no further disruptions will be tolerated. The second time, you eject, inform your chair, and inform the student that they will not be allowed to return to class. Before doing any of this, check with your chair on what variation of the above procedure should be followed. The administration will back you up if you follow proper procedure. A teacher not willing to do this should give up teaching, because of the disservice to the other students in the class by allowing such disruptions to continue.
been2there
Facts have a liberal bias.
03:46 PM on 01/23/2011
And if the chair says to handle it? Without support, the teacher is stuck.
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healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
10:05 PM on 01/24/2011
Call the campus police. Let them take him in, some can bar people from campus.
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Christine Gallo
America, best democracy corporations can buy
10:54 AM on 01/23/2011
The problem starts earlier than college. In my state, when a truly troubled student applies to a college or university the high school may not inform the potential school of the problems observed while in HS.
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bobclapp1936
09:34 AM on 01/23/2011
As a retired 75yr old teacher, the most difficult thing for any teacher to do is not getting a deserved salary raise,or teaching the students, no it's getting the "head shed" to listen and react to the teacher's needs and requests.
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Adam616
bweh
05:09 AM on 01/23/2011
I'm not surprised that creative writing classes and workshops are likely places to find potentially-violent individuals: I've been published a few times, but gotten rejection slips many times more, with the explanation usually mentioning how "extreme" my writing is. And I'm 47 years old! Combine this scenario with a late teens-early twenties man and trouble is never far away.
10:30 AM on 01/23/2011
Yes, because Ted Kaczynski, Ted Bundy, Steven Kazmierczak, Charles Whitman, Marc Lépine, Amy Bishop, Frederick M. Davidson, and Jens P. Hansen all got their starts in creative writing classrooms...
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healthanalyst
Banned from commenting, so?
10:06 PM on 01/24/2011
I think a lof of it is they're flunked out the first semester in engineering / science. And there are a lot of nut cases in early 20 something males.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
lisakaz2
Da ministero dell'interno di Snark.
04:16 AM on 01/23/2011
You make a great point. I wonder why roommate(s) or friends of this person weren't contacted. Maybe the doctor who had prescribed the lithium. I've had erratic students -- one was depressed, one had the tendency to ask incoherent questions I tried to answer. No one seemed particularly violent, though. The kid who seemed incoherent actually made sense on paper, so I never did anything about this issue.
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EQ8Rhomes
03:35 AM on 01/23/2011
Thanks for "...Random Violence". As a High school English teacher, I have seen these kids and assaulted me when expelled. First, the admin went into denial, then they make the victims feel it was coming to them! Then they hide and, I dealt with the police on my own . This 18 yr old had been sacked from all his courses but I did not know and kept giving him chances ,even when he came reeking of alcohol with a "friend". I received no counselling, One V-P, a Mr. D. MacLean told me he was too busy to intervene at Red Deer,AB, Lindsay Thurber Compre. High.
By the time the next one arrived, I had the offender confused and settled down. Racial taunts flew and a whole soc Studies class stood watching the entertainment. This was a lawyer's son and daddy had been bailing him out for a while.Drugs were involved.
He used his truck to run at them to intimidate . the ladies were afraid but I got them to report and the judge told them: to stay of the street! He was not expelled but he and Daddy lawyer withdrew him from our school to a neighbour school and 100 yards away--so that he would not have a record. In my case the court fined him $500. The principal never spoke of it to me.The Counsellors and admin--only looking out for numero uno.
The parents often know their chn are dangerous.
06:02 AM on 01/23/2011
Crazy! Sounds like a scene out of a Flannery O'Connor short story.
By the way, just some friendly feedback from a math teacher: if you start a post with, "As a high school teacher," you should probably be on your best behavior when it comes to grammar and spelling. The errors sapped away some of the power and authority from your post. That would be like me posting, "As a community college math instructor, it distresses me that, in my estimation, over 90% of math students are below average."
06:48 AM on 01/23/2011
As a high school English teacher, I can only hope that this post is not indicative of your writing skills. I would fail you and get you into a remedial program.
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Romeover
Civilization is for weaklings.
07:46 AM on 01/23/2011
Agreed. No wonder kids today can't write.