My Talk with Father Pfleger: "A Dangerous Time in America ... You Have to Whisper Your Thoughts."

On Sunday morning, I was enjoying a brisk walk along the Hudson River in lower Manhattan and some quiet contemplation when my cell phone rang. It was my editor.

"Mike just called, and he wants to talk, but he'll only talk to you," he said.

Mike, as in the Rev. Michael Pfleger, the perpetually embattled pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in Chicago, who most recently has been under siege from comments he made about Hillary Clinton a week ago from the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ -- aka Barack Obama's former (as of Saturday) church.

"Oh, really? Well I don't want to talk to him," I said. "I'm pissed at him. How could he do this? He probably thinks I'm a sympathetic ear, but I'm not. I pretty much want to slap him."

"Just think about it," my editor said with a whiff of smugness, "and call me back in five minutes when you've changed your mind."

I hate it when he's right.

I've been writing about Pfleger for almost as long as I've been writing about anything in Chicago. He's a perennial source for theologically intriguing, often controversial, sometimes plainly outlandish stories on the religion beat. Pfleger, 59 years-old and a priest for 33 of those years -- nearly all of them served at St. Sabina in the Auburn-Gresham neighborhood -- has never met a cardinal-archbishop of Chicago he didn't aggravate. During his tenure, the activist priest has had throwdowns with all three of the "men in the red dresses," as we call them, who have run the Catholic Church in this town.

Pfleger is always in trouble over something, with someone.

This time, the tone is a little different, as Pfleger's waves have made a loud, acrimonious splash on the national and international scene. In video clips broadcast on YouTube, he stood in the same pulpit the Rev. Jeremiah Wright vacated not too long ago, mocking Clinton's tearfulness earlier this spring on the campaign trail and accused her of expecting white entitlement in the face of her black opponent's wildly successful campaign.

In the wake of the Clinton flap, Cardinal Francis George officially silenced Pfleger, whom he had pressured to resign a month ago from the Catholics for Obama committee.

"He and I have had conversations, and I won't go into the conversations; I'll only say that he has asked me to remove myself from Barack's public campaign -- from the group Catholics for Obama -- and that was before all of this," Pfleger told me as we sat alone in a conference room Monday in Sabina's rectory. "He said that, as a Catholic priest, I'm not allowed to publicly support a candidate. I said my understanding was that, as an individual, I can support anyone I want, but that I would never tell parishioners who to vote for. First of all, from my point of view, that insults the congregation. They make their own choice.

"While I disagreed with him, I told him that I did not want to create another distraction for him or for Barack," Pfleger said. "So I wrote a letter to Barack, telling him just that: that I did not want to create a distraction for him, that the cardinal has said no priest is allowed to have his name on a [campaign committee] and that this is a bishop's rule throughout the country. Now, I don't know because I haven't done all the research, but he told me there is no other priest in anybody's campaign listing of support around the country."

As for his performance from the Trinity pulpit at a Sunday night service May 25, Pfleger has apologized for "the words that I chose" and for "my dramatization." Pfleger told me he called the Clinton campaign to apologize directly but had not heard back from Clinton or her representatives.

All that is well and good, but how, as a friend and passionate supporter of Obama's campaign for president, could he do what he did, with cameras rolling?

Pfleger's short answer? He didn't think the service and his "conversation" -- a more casual address than a classic sermon, he explained -- were being broadcast live online, as Trinity often does.

"They told me it was down," Pfleger said. "Their live streaming had been down all day, and they didn't know whether it was back up. . . . I regret the dramatization that I was naive enough to believe was just going to be kept among that church."

Trinity is like a second home to Pfleger, who counts Wright as one of his mentors. "I thank God for the day I walked into Delores' Barber Shop and met you," the priest said of Wright at the beginning of his May 25 address at Trinity. "I wouldn't still be at St. Sabina if it wasn't for Jeremiah Wright."

How much longer, considering his rocky relationship with George and the fact that he's years and years past the archdiocese's official "term limit" as pastor of Sabina, I wondered aloud.

"Are you in jeopardy of being removed right now?" I asked.

Pfleger blanched and wearily rubbed his forehead.

"Because of the hierarchical nature of the archdiocese, I think you're always serving at the discretion of the cardinal," he said. "Within the last year, we talked about a plan for transition over a number of years, and I think we agree on a plan and seeing the transition for Sabina over the next several years. That's all I want to say about that, but obviously I serve at the discretion of the archbishop."

How had George reacted to the Trinity dust-up?

"I can say that he called me, and we had a conversation, and I agreed not to use any of the political candidates' names publicly between now and November, and that I would adhere to my staying off of the official roster of people supporting Ob . . . sena . . . Bar . . . " he stumbled, slamming his hands on the table in frustration as he searched for the proper way to describe the junior lawmaker from Chicago with the big ears who has a healthy lead over the former first lady in the Democratic race.

Then, it was my turn. "So you've known, um, the person whose name we can't mention, for, like, 20 years or so?" I stammered. "Jeez, it's like he's Voldemort in Harry Potter, the name we dare not speak."

It's a rare occasion when Pfleger and I find ourselves at a loss for words.

Pfleger's about as cowed as I've ever seen him. He's reeling, really, from what he admits is a difficult predicament of his own making. Over the weekend, he said that the days since his Trinity address had been the most difficult of his life, even more painful than when his foster son Jarvis was gunned down near St. Sabina on May 30, 1998.

I've spoken to Pfleger many times about Jarvis' death and couldn't believe he said this. It sounded like the worst kind of narcissism, and I told him so.

He told me that, when Jarvis was killed, he was angry with God and didn't understand why God had allowed it to happen. But he knew Jarvis' death was not his fault. He hadn't shot his foster child.

The difference between that pain and this, he said, is that, essentially, he shot himself and his church. "I've spent my life trying to, No. 1, serve God, and to build up this faith community. I felt all of that was at risk. I felt that I don't want to hurt this church; I've done everything trying to make this church strong. I don't want to hurt this church. I don't want to hurt these people who are at their jobs or workplaces having to defend their pastor. That shouldn't be what they have to do. I did not want to hurt this church's reputation."

The rebel priest has had a rough couple of weeks. Last week, as the furor over his comments at Trinity was building, he underwent surgery for a hernia. His doctor told him to stay in bed for a week. He didn't. And Pfleger's 96-year-old father is ailing after a series of strokes.

"He's all I've got. He's all that's left of my family, and it's so painful, " said Pfleger, choking back tears. He has two adopted sons (and five grand children), but his mother and sister are deceased.

"So I'm dealing with that and the fact that the whole world hates my ass right now. There's a new group just started called 'Catholics Against Michael Pfleger,' with an online petition to have him removed from the pulpit.

Pfleger has become collateral damage in a battle that's bigger than he is.

"I understand that," he says. "People say, well, I thought you were more politically savvy. Well, I would have been if I was speaking at a banquet, or if I were speaking at a press conference. But I didn't think this was a political time. I was speaking at a pulpit about an issue that is . . . the greatest sin against the Bible, about racism.

"This is a dangerous time in America, the freest country in the world," Pfleger says, "where you have to whisper your thoughts."

Cathleen Falsani is the award-winning religion columnist for the Chicago Sun-Times and author of the critically acclaimed book, The God Factor: Inside the Spiritual Lives of Public People. She is also author of the memoir Sin Boldly: A Field Guide for Grace, which will be released in August, and of the forthcoming The Dude Abides: The Gospel According to the Coen Brothers, due in stores April 2009.

Comments

[jericho4119]

Well, I guess there is still a shred of empathy in me for this man.

Unlike the author, i do not know this man, although I did live in Chicago for seven years and I know all of these South Side church haunts. I was a member of Apostolic for those seven years, so I am familiar with the stories of these neighborhoods and I know quite well the fiery preachers that stalk these streets.

I also know that the rest of the country does not know the South Side of Chicago and so they have no idea of why residents there find comfort in these larger than life preachers.

I am saddened that ignorance has taken such a huge toll on so many good people.

Take care, Father Mike.

[Tranquility]

Here's an idea for those neighbourhoods. And, it isn't hate based.

Community based on personal and collective empowerment that does not use resentment and hatred to temporarily gain a false empowerment, or more often manipulate people. How about looking after the children and lobbying gov't for gov't programs that support communities. A gospel that preaches the freedom of forgiveness as an ultimate goal and self-respect and respect for others. Lots of churches in poor neighbourhoods are doing just that. But, these ones are not and most people know it.

Think of the children. Oh, 'it takes a village', doesn't it?.

Liberation theology/anti-oppression social work, as well intentioned as it may have been, (or not) perpetuates hatred. Thus it can never solve the problems that are besetting us. It's about ego and domination and false premises. Some might think it's justified and that is their own consciousness and their own reward. A lot of people get that it is about different oppressors whether they are community leaders oppressing their followers, or yet another exclusive group dominating another. The current day minority oppressing the majority which becomes the minority, until it switches back again. It's been going on since man began venturing from the cave. If we don't stop it we will go extinct as it seems we are now well on the way. Interesting how it all involves the second class citizenry of women and children, though, isn't it?

[ailbhe]

How on earth can Catholic priests be allowed to adopt children? It is against the Vatican rules.

Despite that, this man is not a Catholic. Remember when he led a mob threatening to 'snuff out' a shop owner. Threatening the life or safety of others is illegal in most cilivised countries and certainly an excommunicatable offence under canon law. The Vatican needs to start enforcing its laws and root out all perverts, thugs and demagogues from the priesthood.

[mawrm]

If anything, the Catholic Church needs more priests like Fr. Mike unafraid to speak the painful truth. the church hierarchy said NOTHING about the Catholic priest who gave an invocation at a Republican function and made jokes about Obama _while saying a prayer_ in fact the same priest was offering on-air commentary of the Pope's recent visit to the US. Fr. And Fr. Pfleger gets suspended for a worse an insensitive and unflattering imitation of a political candidate, something he immediately apologied for?
This is a bunch of bull!! I guarantee there will be no shortage of churches BEGGING to have Fr. Pfleger as their pastor.

[Tranquility]

"We are to keep our mouthes shut about the white entitlement mindset that permeate the minds of those like Hillary Clinton and others born into privilige and wealth.Is that how we are to play the game?"

And, you know what permeates the minds of other people, how?
You are psychic?
You are a mind reader?
You've taken some anti-oppression social work that talks about 'white entitlement and privilage? You know that theory brought to people of colour by white social workers and Women's Studies profs. That told people of colour this is how they should respond to racism?

What a bunch of fools.

Please. You are judging other people using stereotypes and show an appalling lack of empathy and insight into others. Hate is hate is hate. Compassion and love and justice are not hate.

[booksnmore4you]

When are people going to learn the difference between a sermon in a black church and a carefully thought out statement?

[tbone99]

Fr Pfleger's excuse is that he didn't realize he was being taped? In other words if he hadn't been caught it was okay to blatantly politicze against a presidential candidate, within a church , plainly against the law.

He's sorry for himself because "the whole world hates my ass "
Chickens come home to roost.

Racism is a subclassification of the truly the greatest sin - Hate
Fr. Pfleger, was not figting hate , he was inciting it.

[CallMeDeaconBlues]

Yup, and speech like that has no place in the pulpit.

[tbone99]

What made an even worse impression , very likely to harm race relations was the whole congregations enthisiasm for his veiws.

[RightAway]

The fact that this Pfleger character couldn't get away with making hateful, anti-white comments without being called out on it, says something GOOD about America, not something bad.

Evidently, Pfleger, Wright, and their ilk, are continuing to demand that they be treated with kid gloves because of America's alleged past sins. Well, sorry, guys, but nobody elected you to redeem white America from its sins. (Nobody's elected Obama yet either, but that's another story.)

I'm also not impressed with arguments about how much good Pfleger or Wright have done. "At least they made the trains run on time" has rationalized hate since time immemorial.

Finally, Pfleger thinks he has to "whisper" because of America. He only has to "whisper" because the ideas he's spouting are deserving of shame and condemnation if he shoots his mouth off in public. But like any other sociopath, he's incapable of understanding the harm he is causing.

[blindjester]

Anti-white?

He's white himself! Is he anti-himself?

He was ridiculing the sense of entitlement that is an unconscious form racism in the white community. (My community.)

It's probably true that mocking others and calling others racist doesn't move the conversation forward, but that doesn't make it untrue.

[NYCexile]

This isn't an isolated incident: Father Pfleger called for someone to 'snuff' John Riggio. Mr. Riggio's crime? He's an FFL, operating a legal business within the law. When confronted, he claimed to not realize that the word had that meaning.

Attention whore? Yep.
Race baiter? Yep. Consider the exact same dialogue, but from Rev. Sharpton or Minister Farrakhan before you respond.

Priest and Pastor? Not so much. There are thousands of religious figures throughout our history who could inspire and teach without Fr. Pfleger's antics.

"This is a dangerous time in America, the freest country in the world," Pfleger says, "where you have to whisper your thoughts."
Umm, not quite, Mike. When you espouse a mixture of st00pid and fail, you don't get to don the hair shirt when you get called out for your actions.

[JayEsbe]

Michael Pfleger told the unvarnished truth when he parodied HRC. And Rev. Wright also told the truth when he said "God damn America" for abandoning the victims of hurricane Katrina. Obama has now been forced to throw two truth tellers under the bus, and now has left his Church. And of course his enemies will now assail him for lack of a Church because in this game, there is no winning without lying.

I hope Obama is a hypocrite; better that he threw his friends under the bus for political gain, than that he lack the truth. I am an Obama supporter, but my question to him at this point would be "What profit a man if he gain the whole world, but lose his soul?"

No one who told the truth, could EVER be elected by a majority of the American people. One who knows the truth, who sacrifices it's appearance for a time, and then returns to it is the best we can hope for. I hope Obama knowingly lied regarding both Michael Pfleger, and Rev. Wright. If he did, it would constitute the first evidence of "the noble lie" I had ever seen in politics.

[rwe]

Pleger was just relieved of his pstoral duties today , and he did not go quietly...His replacement is actually related by marriage to Mayor Daley...

[tompaineaz]

He should choose his friends (BHO) more carefully. If you don't believe me, as Rev. Wright.

[VideoHammer]

How sad that it couldn't just be funny. So much weight bearing down on an outspoken priest, Whoa. Of course if he had been preaching about Nazi's or Hitler doing God's work, barely a ripple. Or gays causing everything from Pedophilia to hurricanes, the MSM seems to say, who could disagree with that? Making fun of Hillary, well Obama better deny that man.

I regularly laugh at myself, I am not that special. So you laughing at me gives me something else to laugh at. I am not defined by someone elses comments, nor is Hillary Clinton. The question to me, is why should I care how this priest represented Hillary, when I can't tell from day to day how she defines herself?

[tellit]

Now Father Pfleger has been suspended. Why didn't the cardinal clean house on all the pedophilia in the church. Yes. blacks have to tip around and whisper. Reminds me of "ROOTS", when slaves had to make sure the master was happy in our action. That we keep in line. Some might remember O'reilly asking, What is going on in the black church." As if we are planning the big escape.

Father Pfleger, I am sorry this has happen to you. Keep speaking the truth. You have friends in Alabama.

[mawrm]

Ditto for this Alabama resident, I agree with you 100%

[CaseyBabes]

What was that.........he feels sorry for his words and dramatization? Well, boo freakin' hoo......what the hell else is there to any speech, sermon, teaching session....whatever? His delivery merely lacked truth -- oh well, what the hell, two out of three ain't bad. The clown was pandering to his audience, using the perfect timing of an experienced thespian to draw out maximum response to his hatred of the numerical, but dwindling, dominance of whites in this country. Unbelieveably, the "priest" congers up a statement, " you have to whisper your thoughts in this country." Yzat "father," afraid those voices in your head are also listening? Nut.

[coolmaiden]

Doesn't anyone here remember the hateful campaign that Senator Clinton ran? The divisive remarks made by President Clinton after the South Carolina primary? The way Senator Clinton had to practically spit out the words "not to my knowledge" when asked about Senator Obama's religion? The truth is, the Clintons largely brought these comments onto themselves. The only thing I am disappointed in is Father Pfleger's cop-out answer. He should have stuck to his guns and rightfully gave the Clintons a taste of their own medicine.

[CallMeDeaconBlues]

It doesn't belong in the pulpit.

[coolmaiden]

Father Pfleger would have been torn apart even if he had made the remarks in the kitchen of a Chinese restaurant. This was an ambush by the Clintons and the MSM, who were looking extra intently at anyone with even a passing relationship to Obama. Everyone fell for it, even Cardinal George.