Is Hillary Positioning for 2012?
The Politico laid it out very clearly yesterday - and solidified what we've known for weeks - this race is over. Obama has the nomination.
Even Hillary Clinton's own campaign admits it! Politico reports, "One important Clinton adviser estimated to Politico privately that she has no more than a 10 percent chance of winning her race against Barack Obama, an appraisal that was echoed by other operatives. In other words: The notion of the Democratic contest being a dramatic cliffhanger is a game of make-believe."
It's somewhat hilarious to watch the media eat up the campaign spin on the record, that she's got a great shot to win this and win the Presidency. Of course, the race gets a whole lot more boring with lower ratings when it's Obama vs. McCain, probably with a huge lull in the campaign, where - God forbid - the news media will actually have to go out and find and report news, and not just campaign talking points sent to them.
I've been trying to figure out for weeks why Hillary Clinton is still in this campaign because the math has been obvious for quite some time now. Even Mitt Romney had the - what would you call it, decency, wisdom, common sense - to drop out after he realized it was mathematically impossible (or next to impossible) for him to win.
There is one possibility as to why Senator Clinton might still be in this race, inflicting heavy damage on the presumptive Democratic nominee. That reason is Hillary 2012.
Now that's a heavy charge. I can't read her mind, so I don't know what her true intentions are. We can only judge based on her actions. Her staff understands and agrees that she has a very, very small chance of winning, but she is still willing to go after front-runner of her own party in the strongest possible words.
Look at what she has said about the man she privately believes will be the Democratic nominee for President:
He has not crossed the "Commander in Chief threshold" like John McCain has.
He cannot be trusted to answer the phone at 3am.
His only experience is a speech from 2002.
That he is disenfranchising voters in Michigan and Florida (even though she agreed to the same rules he did when those states stepped out of line in the primary process).
And, as Bill Clinton intimated yesterday, he doesn't love our country, like Hillary and McCain do.
Those are some serious blows against someone in your own party and might seriously hurt his chances of winning the general election. In fact, every day that Senator Clinton stays in the race is another day she spends money damaging Senator Obama. And every dollar she spends is a dollar in John McCain's pocket.
It almost makes you ask - does she want him to lose?
If Obama wins, then Senator Clinton couldn't run again until at least 2016 (unless something goes terribly wrong). At which point, she would be almost as old as John McCain is now. If she's ever going to become president, she has this narrow window.
On the other hand, if Senator Obama sustains serious political wounds going into the general election and winds up losing, then Hillary Clinton is sitting pretty in 2012.
In four years, John McCain will be 209 years old, and coming off a disastrous first term. We will still be in Iraq and the country will be dying for change. If you thought the voters wanted change now, imagine what the situation will be in 2012. Imagine how starved the electorate will be for a Democrat if McCain just spent four years replicating George W. Bush's policies - as he is adamantly promising to do on the campaign trail.
At that point, Senator Clinton would be able to swoop in and say, "See, you went with Obama last time and he lost, just like I told you. Now, nominate me, and I will take this White House back like we should have four years ago!"
Having narrowly lost to Obama in the primary, she would be in a great position to say "It's my turn! Let's get this right!"
Is she that cynical? Does she care that little about her own party or her own principles? Remember, a McCain win signs us up for more years in Iraq, a possible new war with Iran, an untold number of conservative judges on the Supreme Court, a probable overturn of Roe v. Wade, four more years of economic pain for the lower and middle class and ... no healthcare reform for another four years.
Is anyone that politically craven? To risk all that so they have a better chance of winning in 2012? I hope not. I hope she is just being delusional and thrashing about in misguided desperation as she continues to wound Obama going into the general election.
But if she is doing this on purpose - and she wants Obama to lose this time around so she has a better chance of winning in 2012 - she better make damn sure that news doesn't leak. Because that kind of political crime would be unforgivable. Unforgivable.
Follow Cenk Uygur on Twitter: www.twitter.com/TheYoungTurks
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If that her thought process, then she should realize a few things:
# If Clinton Fatigue is the main culprit point of abstraction undermining the campaign in 2008, then we are gonna bet that it will be less in 2012?
# Democrats of all persuasions will have such fond memories of the 2008 campaign, not to mention th 1990's economic successes accompanied the bounty of political achievements. We're all by now quite familiar with I'm sure.
# Democrats are commonly called Progressives, which might mean we are more comfortable with fresh ideas, fresh people in Washington and that sending someone to White House duty based more upon knowledge of the political machinery is a quintessential Republican mentality.
HMMMM...
Very interesting thought, Cenk - I hadn't even thought of it, but I wouldn't put it past her.
"In four years, John McCain will be 209 years old..."
Thanks for the laugh.
Hillary is everything she's been accused of and worse. She has no compunction about damaging the eventual nominee because if she can't have it, he can't have it either. Forgive my simplicity, but she really is a total bitch. There's no other way to describe her.
bobdob
here's a little secret. I'm going to be John's running mate. and Joe is going to be secretary of state.
best regards,
Hillary
Sen. Clinton will become an independant democrat like Sen. Lieberman and support republicans.
Positioning herself for 2012? F... if she'll ever get my vote, in '12 or any other year.
Never say never. What if Jeb Bush is the opponent in 2012?
Here's a cynical thought: Not only might she be she positioning herself to run in 2012 after one term of McCain - maybe she's also looking to be McCain's vice presidential pick!
When she doesn't get the nomination, it won't surprise me in the least to see her endorse McCain. She's practically done it already.
Hillary, like her husband, is a Republicrat. They belong to the Joe Lieberman wing of the "democratic" party. They're short-term thinkers, self-interested opportunists and an embarrassment to the real Democratic Party. The Clintons have no shame and no integrity.
How is she a Republicrat? She and Obama have nearly identical voting records and their policy standpoints are the same! Just because she and 28 out of 50 Democratic senators voted to authorize the war in Iraq in 2002 does not make her a Republican!
Also, its totally inconsistent to accuse her of wanting to destroy Obama so she can run in 2012 AND say that she is going to endorse McCain in this election and/or run as an independent. If she is as you say so twisted that she would destroy the Democratic party to get elected President, how would it be in her best interest to endorse McCain? She would piss almost every one of her current supporters off(remember, about half of the Democratic party likes her better than Obama and are not going to be turned off by her tactics) AND if he did win and she ran against him in 2012 how would she be able to justify her candidacy against him when she ENDORSED him in 2008? Same goes with running as an independent. That would serve no other purpose except to make her never be able to get elected president ever.
I admit that Clinton is monomaniacally focused on getting elected President and she will do whatever it takes, but say what you will about her, she is not stupid. She would never do something that would seriously damage her chances of becoming president. Campaigning against Obama so she could run in 2012 would be monumentally stupid if she wanted to become president.
"When she doesn't get the nomination, it won't surprise me in the least to see her endorse McCain. She's practically done it already."
Will you people get off this for heavenssakes. When Clinton said that McCain is more qualified than Obama on national security, she was using what we call "sarcasm" as a (big words coming!) "rhetorical device."
Here's a simpler example. Your mother tells you to clean your room. (I know, you hate this example already.) You clean your room, but you do a crap job. Your mother says, "Your little brother could have done better!" She's not saying that your brother should clean your room. She's saying that you did a really poor job.
Got that? "Sarcasm used as a rhetorical device." Pay attention in English class. That way, you might actually be able to understand politicians who communicate in language aimed at people older than fifth graders.
no, she wouldn't endorse McCain, because that would destroy her chance of being the democratic nominee in 2012. She will just injure Obama as much as she can, then refuse to endorse him and sit quietly on the sidelines and hope he loses.
Yeah, a former democratic president is going to move to the republican side--please come back to earth--you sound like Randi Rhodes now. I can't believe the lack of rationality on the blind Obama supporters. I respect the one with their eyes and ears opened, but as soon as someone says something like this it scares me.
Why? Because Obama, even if elected, is going to become human to you. You are going to realize that he is a politician like all the rest and guilty of divisiveness (he just sounds better doing it) and I fear that you may be very angry to a point of damage. It's okay for politicians to be politicians.
I love Obama and would be proud to have him as a president, I am just really scared about all blind paranoid following he has. Lack of clarity in thought makes me worry about riots and other unfortunate things that happen when the public is angry and dissapointed that what they believed in isn't true or about the fear that is put in the minds of people.
Keep your head about you.
Who knows what Hillary is up to anymore...
How original.
Doesn't have to be original. .. Who cares. Just honest.
A Hillary Clinton who cannot win the democratic party nomination will have no chance of winning a general election.
Hillary Clinton has grieviously overestimated both her political appeal and legislative capacity. Frankly, she appears overmatched in the senate, but maybe if she sticks with it and applies herself, she'll be able to so some progress at that level.
Promoting her to the White House is out of the question. There's no indication she's fit for the job.
Overestimated her political appeal? I guess those aren't REAL votes, those tens of millions? Those votes that differ in count by only tens of thousands to Obama's? Exactly who are these "phantom" voters?
Axctually it is in excess of 700,000 votes that Barack leads Hillary in popular vote. Barack has gotten more votes that ANY democratic nominee in the HISTROY of the democratic party. To say it is only tens of thousands is a gross understatement.
Hillary is positioning to be Sen. McCain's running mate.
For the past twelve months, HRC's high negatives and low electability numbers have been the topic of discussion in all of the media outlets. The republicans have repeatedly demonstrated that Hillary is the one they believe they have a better chance of beating in November. The clearly want her to win the nomination. Probably because they've spent the past eight years building an arsenal to be used in a Clinton/Republican general election. The reality of HRCs electabilty should/can not be totally ignored.
It's why Bill is so obsessed about this. He wants to turn it around and sucker punch the rethugs, and beat 'em when he knows they're so sure about themselves. Man, it's not just her... He's wantin' this fight bad.
But What Mr. Obama is bringing is totally unexpected here. A force from outside Washington that actually has built and is maintaining strength from the grass roots and the people. It's the only real reason he's strong, and if he can maintain by simply being himself, God willing the majority and the will of the people will prevail.
No matter what any preacher or anybody said, it's only one phrase and NOTHING ELSE:
God Bless America!
Happy Easter everybody.
It's why Bill is so obsessed about this. He wants to turn it around and sucker punch the rethugs, and beat 'em when he knows they're so sure about themselves. Man, it's not just her... He's wantin' this fight bad.
But What Mr. Obama is bringing is totally unexpected here. A force from outside Washington that actually has built and is maintaining strength from the grass roots and the people. It's the only real reason he's strong, and if he can maintain by simply being himself, God willing the majority and the will of the people will prevail.
No matter what any preacher or anybody said, it's only one phrase and NOTHING ELSE:
God Bless America!
Happy Easter everybody.
actually the opposite is true. Why else did the conservative media constantly embrace Obama? Are they no longer racist?
Of course Hillary wants Obama to lose. Why else would she and her husband be endorsing John McCain?
I do think she wants to poison Obama'nomination, as much for 2012 and the fact that sheis a sore loser. She thought she would be coronated and didn't think she'd actually have to run a good campaign for the nomination. The lack of post-Super Tuesday strategy, the lack of fielding a full slate of delegates for PA, the high-on-the-hog expenditures during the campaign, the fact that her donations were stronger for a general election than the primaries and the fact that she has almost never congratulated Obama for any state win (maybe via fax or indirectly at best but no "concession speech"). That all equals sore loser to me and her taking down/out Obama has to be about both 2012 ahd an overall vindictiveness. Not what I'd consider a presidential quality.
I'm sorry. Did Obama win something yet? Did he reach the 2025 threshhold HE KNEW ABOUT when the whole process began? I must have missed the news.
Yea, in fact he has. He has won the most number of states, and he has the most pledged delegates, and also the most popular votes. All three will remain until the convention in Denver. So yes, he has won, she just has not admitted it yet.
Shouldn't Obama, the favorite of Democratic party hacks everywhere be further ahead in the polls than he is? Here we have a Republican party with a war that is endless, a tanking economy, more and more people w/o health insurance and the national race shows McCain in the lead?
No wonder she's thinking of 2012, do you really think Obama has a chance to win the Nov. election? The polls tighten up at the end but they apparently already have. Not a good sign at all for the Demos.
Do you still believe in polls? There could have been more reliable had it not been for Obama being in the race and Hillary had easily won the nomination. However, a race between Obama versus McCain is, at this point, very unpredictable: Will the so-called "Democrat white steelworkers in Ohio" or similar be willing to set aside "animal emotions" and vote for Obama?
Hillary had been the annointed favorite for the last two years. The press thought she was a shoe in. She thought she was a shoe in. Good grief, she didn't even have a campaign strategy past Super Tuesday. However, on the way to the nomination, a smart, articulate guy that knows a thing or two about grass roots organizing decided to give her a run for her money. He gathered a team that built a fifty state ground game, raised a bunch of money from ordinary Americans on the internet instead of DLC fat cats and his candidacy took off. He started from nothing and now he's ahead. He will prevail, because he ran a smart campaign and has inspired the masses into a movement to change the country and the global landscape in a better way. You wonder why he didn't hit a home run months ago. He has been introducing himself to the nation. By all accounts, he should have been out long before many others. The fact that he is the front runner speaks volumes about his campaign, his ability and his appeal. Hillary's time has now passed. Whatever happens in Nov (I think Obama will win), Hillary will never again be "the" candidate. Americans have a thing about someone that failed once. Look at Kerry. Look at Edwards. Neither got traction this time around. Americans don't want to put their effort into someone that has run and lost. Hillary's best hope is to be a leader in the Senate.
I can't believe this is crackpot conspiracy theory is actually being accepted as legitimate political analysis. It simply demonstrates how radically out of touch Obama supporters have become with the rest of America.
First of all, no candidate in the history of the Democratic primary has ever dropped out this far from the convention unless they had been completely destroyed by their opponent. At this point in the 1980,1984, 1988, and 1992 primaries the leader of the race had an even bigger lead over their closest opponent, but that opponent still stayed in the race. Why should Clinton who is losing to Obama by a smaller margin than those candidates have to get out of the race and why is her staying in the race evidence that she is trying to make sure Obama doesn't win the election? That doesn't make any sense!
Also, how is Clinton staying in the race hurting Obama in a way that makes it clear her intent is to make him lose? Is it because the longer he has to campaign the worse he is going to look? I have news for you, if he can't weather a primary campaign, there is absolutely no way he is going to survive the vicious Republican attack machine that makes anything the Clintons would dare do to him look like childsplay.
The Jeremiah Wright scandal, for example, which was responsible for Obama's recent decline in polls was not released by the Clinton campaign, but by right-wing commentators like Faux News and Limbaugh. These sort of things that are hurting him now would be released even if Clinton wasn't in the race. In fact, there is something to be said for the fact that by dragging the campaign out longer, Obama will get his skeletons out of the closet earlier so that by the general election, the Republicans won't have as much dirt to smear him with. Based on his semi-successful response to the Wright comments (yes his speech on race was brilliant and insightful, but it did not nearly go far enough in placating the white middle class voters that were the most offended by the Wright comments and whose votes will be necessary for anyone who wants to win the general election) I would say that Obama is doing a good enough job making it harder for himself to beat McCain in the general election. He doesn't need Clinton's help and to suggest that she is trying to make it so he loses the general election is baseless and absurd.
The notion that Obama cannot stand against the righ-wing or Reublican Machine is idiotic to say the least. He is not alone and he will not be left alone as John Kerry was. If he only counts with the African-Americans, the young, and "the mostly educated of all races and genders" I think he has enough. We will all say to this Machine: "No this time. No Swift Boating Obama. Never Again!" For every clip on youtube against Obama we'll have 200 in his favor. For every smear run on the MSM we we'll send millions of e-mails to the Media: Never Again!
"If he only counts with the African-Americans, the young, and 'the mostly educated of all races and genders' I think he has enough."
Not really. There has yet to be a candidate that has really transformed the enthusiasm of young people into votes. While Obama is clearly going to do that better than anyone yet, they aren't reliable enough to base an election strategy on. Furthermore, even if they do come out to vote, you cannot get elected on those three groups alone. A candidate that does not garner significant support from the white middle class (he doesn't need a majority of their votes but he can't lose by too big of a margin) has absolutely no chance of getting elected. If they continue to perceive him as antagonizing them (it doesn't matter if he isn't antagonizing the white middle class, if they feel like he is its just as bad) as polling suggests his March 18th speech did, he will not be able to win the general election. People need to step out of their bubble and realize that the rest of the country does not see Obama the same way that progressives do (even I as a Clinton supporter admire Obama and think he would make a very good president). Large parts of the country saw the March 18th speech very differently than HuffPo and Chris Matthews did, whether they are stupid or wrong, they still have a vote and unless Obama figures out a way to regain their support he is going to lose in the general election.
I guess you haven't read the news lately. You know, the 24/7 Pastor Wright stuff. That's just the appetizer. Have you noticed how easy it has been to trash Obama as a Muslin and also trash Obama for his Pastor? I didn't know Muslims had Pastors. I thought Pastors was a Christian thing. As soon as Pastor Wright is over, the Muslim link will kick back in. I'd say Obama has one hell of a fight.
Think so, loon? You think so? We will swallow your America hating ass right up....we don't tolerate your kind. You left wing loons think you're sooooo powerful..
chasgoose:
Sen. Clinton is wasting precious campaign resources by paying you to shill for her. If you can't reconize satire then you need to loosen up. Dude don't get your knickers in a twist over a joke.
You Clintonites are like birds on a wire no wonder Jack Nicholson supports Hillary.
So, what's the question?
After the "actuary tables" article from several weeks ago, many believe that this is what it's all about for Senator Clinton; laying the "I told ya so" groundwork for herself in 2012.
Why else would a candidate who is losing by every measure stay in the race doing nothing but weakening her own party's candidate? She cannot win, but she can certainly take Obama and the prty down with her.
"Is anyone that politically craven? To risk all that so they have a better chance of winning in 2012?"
Answer: Yes! If you look at the history and "experience' of the Clintons, you will find they have not helped other Democrats get elected, have not used Bill's political pull to assist other Democrats -- they help themselves and only themselves. So this McCain is better qualified comments made of late by the Clintons fits right into the Hillary 2012 run and explains why she is staying in this primary even though she cannot win, even though she may cost the Democrats the White House in 2008.
It appears that Hillary Clinton would rather see 4 more years of war, 4 more years of Bush policy, 4 more years of destruction of the US economy and good will abroad if it will get her the election in 2012.
Are you non-commited super delegates paying attention?
If you look at the history and "experience' of the Clintons, you will find they have not helped other Democrats get elected, have not used Bill's political pull to assist other Democrats --
Oh, do tell truthbetold4us.
But I mean tell, klike with facts.
I think you will find yourself hard pressed to provide those facts.
gore, who I love, distanced himself from Clinton. If he had chosen to use Bill that 2% that Nader took from him would have been more than made up for so that those pricks whoare the enemy by the way.... couldn't steal the election.
You opeople are insane. There is no other explanation.
Not because you support Obama... that is totally understandable. It is HOW you support Obama that is very far removed from rational and reality based.
I pity the country if you are the newly energized.
Wait, wait... go back.
Danger Will Robinson.
Obama says he can "bring people together". Let him start by bringing the Democratic Party together. If you think Hillary is tough, you think the Republicans will swoon for him. Let's see him walk the walk.
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